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| UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Is it worth getting a 50 quid compound mitre saw
I'm going to replace my bannisters so am going to have to make quite a
lot of 45 degree cuts and would like to get a powered mitre saw. Unfortunately I'm broke at the moment and can't really afford to spend much. Is it worth getting the 50 quid Ferm one from Screwfix (or any similarly priced one) or should I save the money until I can get something decent and do it all manually? Cheers J |
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#2
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I'd have thought that unless you're an absolute whizz with a handsaw, even a
cheap power saw will give you a better result, especially over a large number of repetitive cuts. If you do a few test cuts first to check out the Ferm, you'll be able to adjust for any inaccuracies in the angle or whatever. Bert http://www.bertcoules.co.uk |
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#3
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#4
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Hi Jimboy,
I would say, buy it! I got one from Wickes a few years ago and use it all the time. If it broke I would certainly replace it. YMMV Stephen "Jimboy" wrote in message om... I'm going to replace my bannisters so am going to have to make quite a lot of 45 degree cuts and would like to get a powered mitre saw. Unfortunately I'm broke at the moment and can't really afford to spend much. Is it worth getting the 50 quid Ferm one from Screwfix (or any similarly priced one) or should I save the money until I can get something decent and do it all manually? Cheers J |
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#6
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"sPoNiX" wrote in message ... On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:09:44 GMT, (sPoNiX) wrote: Shop around...I saw one for £29 the other day. Unfortunately, I can't remember where-if it comes back to me I'll post here. It's come back! Argos do an electric Mitre Saw for £24.99 which should be more than adequate for the job you are undertaking. (I look at it this way: Weigh up the £25 cost of the tool against the potential cost of wasted time and damaged materials.) The stock number is: 710/5805, www.argos.co.uk sPoNiX I have one very similar to the Argos one, works a treat. At £25 it will pay for it's self in a day. Baz |
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#7
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"sPoNiX" wrote in message ... On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:09:44 GMT, (sPoNiX) wrote: Shop around...I saw one for £29 the other day. Unfortunately, I can't remember where-if it comes back to me I'll post here. It's come back! Argos do an electric Mitre Saw for £24.99 which should be more than adequate for the job you are undertaking. (I look at it this way: Weigh up the £25 cost of the tool against the potential cost of wasted time and damaged materials.) The stock number is: 710/5805, www.argos.co.uk I got this saw last week. After a few practice cuts it's proved to be fine. |
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#8
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Jimboy wrote:
I'm going to replace my bannisters so am going to have to make quite a lot of 45 degree cuts and would like to get a powered mitre saw. Unfortunately I'm broke at the moment and can't really afford to spend much. Is it worth getting the 50 quid Ferm one from Screwfix (or any similarly priced one) or should I save the money until I can get something decent and do it all manually? I got the even cheaper one that Screwfix had for £29.99 (Spanish sort of name that I can't remember). It served me well until a couple of weekends ago when I tried to cut a bit of 4" x 2" at an angle it couldn't quite cope with. The guard stuck in the wood, I pushed harder to get it to cut, the guard got itself out of the way and the saw dug suddenly into the wood and stalled. That in itself probably wouldn't have been disastrous except that the shock load appears to have broken a tooth in the gearing so that, although it still cuts, it makes a horrendous noise. For £29.99 it's given me good service and would be still if I hadn't misused it. I now have an SIP sliding whatsit saw which can cut up to 12" x 2" or thereabouts. -- Chris Green |
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#9
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Thanks for all the advice. As I'm most definitely not a whizz with a
handsaw I've got the Argos one, should save me a load of time. Thanks again J |
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#11
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Andy Hall wrote:
If you don't want to buy a decent saw, but do want to do a proper job... That smacks a little of snobbery. With care and patience and an awareness of the tool's limitations it's perfectly possible to do a "proper job", even one involving repeated cuts, with an inexpensive mitre saw. Bert http://www.bertcoules.co.uk |
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#12
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Andy Hall am typed:
I'm going to replace my bannisters so am going to have to make quite a lot of 45 degree cuts and would like to get a powered mitre saw. Unfortunately I'm broke at the moment and can't really afford to spend much. Is it worth getting the 50 quid Ferm one from Screwfix (or any similarly priced one) or should I save the money until I can get something decent and do it all manually? Cheers J It depends on how good a job you want to do. A saw in this price bracket will not give very repeatable cuts. If you don't want to buy a decent saw, but do want to do a proper job, then you would be better off by far by renting a decent mitre saw for a day. Oh my god he's off again....... Alternatively B&Q do a cheepie for £26, or I think with a laser sight guide £29. http://tinyurl.com/5a9dy |
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#13
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On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:50:15 -0000, "Bert Coules"
wrote: Andy Hall wrote: If you don't want to buy a decent saw, but do want to do a proper job... That smacks a little of snobbery. No it isn't - just practical experience of using a cheap mitre saw and then a decent one. With care and patience and an awareness of the tool's limitations it's perfectly possible to do a "proper job", even one involving repeated cuts, with an inexpensive mitre saw. The limitations are repeatability of angle and cutting position. They are simply poor on this class of saw. If you are prepared to accept the position of a cut being a couple of mm out and a degree or two out as being a good job then fine, a saw in this class may be good enough. Personally I think that that's a poor job but make no apology for wanting to achieve good results. If you want to see the difference, go and try out a Makita LS1013 or DeWalt DW708 and compare with one of these £50 jobs. I use a mitre saw a great deal so invested in a Makita LS1013. It cuts spot on every time. However, at a cost approaching £500, it would not be a sensible purchase for a one time staircase job. This does not mean that one should not use this quality of saw and achieve a good job, so in this case, renting a decent saw makes a lot of sense. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#14
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On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:07:20 GMT, "Mark" wrote:
Andy Hall am typed: I'm going to replace my bannisters so am going to have to make quite a lot of 45 degree cuts and would like to get a powered mitre saw. Unfortunately I'm broke at the moment and can't really afford to spend much. Is it worth getting the 50 quid Ferm one from Screwfix (or any similarly priced one) or should I save the money until I can get something decent and do it all manually? Cheers J It depends on how good a job you want to do. A saw in this price bracket will not give very repeatable cuts. If you don't want to buy a decent saw, but do want to do a proper job, then you would be better off by far by renting a decent mitre saw for a day. Oh my god he's off again....... Have you actually tried cutting a whole staircase set of spindles, rails and newel posts accurately with a £25-50 saw and then measured the angles and lengths.? This is an application where accuracy is critical to a good outcome. If the lengths of the spindles are wrong by a mm or two or the angles by a degree or two, the staircase, when finished, will look like absolute crap. Buying a decent mitre saw, which will probably be needed anyway to get enough capacity to cut the newel posts and possibly the rails, may well not make sense. Renting one in this case rather than making a pig's ear makes eminent sense. Alternatively B&Q do a cheepie for £26, or I think with a laser sight guide £29. http://tinyurl.com/5a9dy If you rely on a laser sight guide on this type of saw, then it will make an already innaccurate cut even worse. They are a gimmick on this level of product. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#15
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"Bert Coules" wrote in message ... Andy Hall wrote: If you don't want to buy a decent saw, but do want to do a proper job... That smacks a little of snobbery. You figured this one out straight away. |
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#16
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#17
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On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:35:20 GMT, "Mark" wrote:
Andy Hall am typed .. Have you actually tried cutting a whole staircase set of spindles, rails and newel posts accurately with a £25-50 saw and then measured the angles and lengths.? This is an application where accuracy is critical to a good outcome. God almighty how do you think they were made in Victorian times, with a handsaw and mitre block. That would be infinitely preferable to using one of the cheap shed saws but would take a little longer. My father would never let an apprentice near a powered saw until they had proved they could cut an angle by hand. *ANY* tool is only as good as the person using it, if you need to spend £500 on a powered saw to achieve accurately fare enough. That is true to an extent, but a good mitre saw will give repeatably better results than a cheap shed one. The same is true of a number of other tools such as jig saws. You might want to go and try out some good quality mitre and jig saws - the results are spectacularly better. I can't boost that I possess one of these, but can boost that I can still cut the angle on a 7 ins skirtingboard to fit around a corner with a HANDSAW. That's fine. Unfortunately not everybody is able to do that either through lack of skill or lack of practice. The question was about how to achieve a good result for a one off job. For most people, using a handsaw, unless used in a good mitre box will not achieve a good result, so your point about your being able to cut 180mm skirting with a handsaw is not that relevant. A low end powered mitre saw won't either because the mechanisms have too much slop to give repeatable results. A good quality powered mitre saw will give repeatable and good results but clearly does not make sense to buy for a day's work unlikely to be repeated. Therefore renting one makes much better sense than buying something at about the same price that won't. We will never see eye to eye on this tool quality equals finished quality issue, It can have a great deal to do with it and certainly does in this case. I do this for a living day in day out , what do you do ? A variety of things and I also do work with wood. When I do, I prefer to do so with good quality tools which I find certainly do help to achieve good results. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#18
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In article ,
Bert Coules wrote: If you don't want to buy a decent saw, but do want to do a proper job... That smacks a little of snobbery. With care and patience and an awareness of the tool's limitations it's perfectly possible to do a "proper job", even one involving repeated cuts, with an inexpensive mitre saw. The first one of these I bought from B&Q was pretty bad - it wouldn't do repeatable accurate cuts. Too much play somewhere. Ok for rough work. I bought a bigger one, and that is ok giving repeatable cuts - although you have to check it each time with a protractor if wanting a 90 degree etc - the scale isn't accurate enough. A decent make will have indents for the common angles which will be accurate. You really do get what you pay for. -- *The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#19
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In article ,
Mark wrote: Alternatively B&Q do a cheepie for £26, or I think with a laser sight guide £29. A laser guide won't help sloppy bearings. Won't help anything, actually. -- *Young at heart -- slightly older in other places Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#20
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In article ,
IMM wrote: If you don't want to buy a decent saw, but do want to do a proper job... That smacks a little of snobbery. You figured this one out straight away. But he's not talking about hacksaws. -- *Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#21
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In article ,
Mark wrote: God almighty how do you think they were made in Victorian times, with a handsaw and mitre block. In a word, skill. My father would never let an apprentice near a powered saw until they had proved they could cut an angle by hand. That's pros. We're amateurs. Some will develop excellent skills, some won't. And a good power tool *might* help the unskilled. A poor power tool *might* be able to be compensated for with skill. But a poor power tool and poor skills? *ANY* tool is only as good as the person using it, if you need to spend £500 on a powered saw to achieve accurately fare enough. I can't boost that I possess one of these, but can boost that I can still cut the angle on a 7 ins skirtingboard to fit around a corner with a HANDSAW. We will never see eye to eye on this tool quality equals finished quality issue, I do this for a living day in day out , what do you do ? My skills are so so. But some time ago, I made a record player plinth out of veneered chipboard, and got the use of a pro workshop. Where there was a De Walt 3 phase radial arm saw. Lock it to 45 degrees either way and you got a *perfect* mitre. Lock it to 90, and a perfect right angle. All without much skill. And no chipping of the veneer. My 150 quid PPPro just isn't in the same class. -- *If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#22
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
A laser guide won't help sloppy bearings. Won't help anything, actually. I'll second that. My cheapo circular saw from Argos has a laser guide: switch it on and you get a neat little red line on the wood in front of the saw. Too bad it's about 1mm away from the actual saw cut, and about 3 degrees off the blade line... Needless to say, I don't use it much (the laser, that is. The saw is fine for quick and dirty jobs). -- Tony |
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#23
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... This is an application where accuracy is critical to a good outcome. If the lengths of the spindles are wrong by a mm or two or the angles by a degree or two, the staircase, when finished, will look like absolute crap. That's nonsense. Its the length of the fillet that governs that and they can easily all be cut to the same length. Agree that the spindle length needs to accurate enough to fit against the fillet, but the angle? Nah. FWIW I made up a mitre block from scrap timber. Jim A |
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#24
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , IMM wrote: If you don't want to buy a decent saw, but do want to do a proper job... That smacks a little of snobbery. You figured this one out straight away. But he's not talking about hacksaws. Go away!......you don't say......wow! |
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#25
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On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:41:00 -0000, "Jim Alexander"
wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . This is an application where accuracy is critical to a good outcome. If the lengths of the spindles are wrong by a mm or two or the angles by a degree or two, the staircase, when finished, will look like absolute crap. That's nonsense. No it isn't. Its the length of the fillet that governs that and they can easily all be cut to the same length. Provided that the saw is up to it. Agree that the spindle length needs to accurate enough to fit against the fillet, but the angle? Nah. Of course the angle is important. If it's incorrect, the spindles don't make the correct angles with the rails and the job will look like a bodge. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#26
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"Mark" wrote in message ...
Andy Hall am typed: I'm going to replace my bannisters so am going to have to make quite a lot of 45 degree cuts and would like to get a powered mitre saw. Unfortunately I'm broke at the moment and can't really afford to spend much. Is it worth getting the 50 quid Ferm one from Screwfix (or any similarly priced one) or should I save the money until I can get something decent and do it all manually? Cheers J It depends on how good a job you want to do. A saw in this price bracket will not give very repeatable cuts. If you don't want to buy a decent saw, but do want to do a proper job, then you would be better off by far by renting a decent mitre saw for a day. Oh my god he's off again....... Alternatively B&Q do a cheepie for £26, or I think with a laser sight guide £29. http://tinyurl.com/5a9dy On no account trust the lasers on these things. I have one from Argos which cuts perfect, repeatable right angles (all I really wanted it for) but the laser line is about 5 degrees out. Andrew |
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#27
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:41:00 -0000, "Jim Alexander" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message . .. This is an application where accuracy is critical to a good outcome. If the lengths of the spindles are wrong by a mm or two or the angles by a degree or two, the staircase, when finished, will look like absolute crap. That's nonsense. No it isn't. Pantomime season approaching - Oh yes it is. Its the length of the fillet that governs that and they can easily all be cut to the same length. Provided that the saw is up to it. More nonsense, its easy to ensure multiple fillet pieces are all cut to the same length. A hand saw will suffice. Agree that the spindle length needs to accurate enough to fit against the fillet, but the angle? Nah. Of course the angle is important. If it's incorrect, the spindles don't make the correct angles with the rails and the job will look like a bodge. Never done one myself nonsense. The spindles only requre to butt up against the fillet pieces. Verify with a spirit level that the spindle is vertical. Jim A |
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#28
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In article ,
IMM wrote: That smacks a little of snobbery. You figured this one out straight away. But he's not talking about hacksaws. Go away!......you don't say......wow! Which compound mitre saw do you possess? Given your usual lack of knowledge of all things practical it might be of interest to know? -- *A backward poet writes inverse.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#29
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In article ,
Andy Hall wrote: Agree that the spindle length needs to accurate enough to fit against the fillet, but the angle? Nah. Of course the angle is important. If it's incorrect, the spindles don't make the correct angles with the rails and the job will look like a bodge. On some bannister types, the handrail is grooved to the width of the spindles. That groove is then filled by fillets which only need to be cut square and to length. But if the spindles aren't accurately cut in the first place, it will never be as rigid as it could be. -- *I speak fluent patriarchy but it's not my mother tongue Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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#30
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On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:06:54 -0000, "Jim Alexander"
wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:41:00 -0000, "Jim Alexander" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... This is an application where accuracy is critical to a good outcome. If the lengths of the spindles are wrong by a mm or two or the angles by a degree or two, the staircase, when finished, will look like absolute crap. That's nonsense. No it isn't. Pantomime season approaching - Oh yes it is. It's behind you........ Its the length of the fillet that governs that and they can easily all be cut to the same length. Provided that the saw is up to it. More nonsense, its easy to ensure multiple fillet pieces are all cut to the same length. A hand saw will suffice. A hand saw and simple jig would certainly suffice, but that wasn't the question. That was about the use of a cheap power saw. These don't have the mechanical quality to produce cuts of repeatable accuracy and angle. Agree that the spindle length needs to accurate enough to fit against the fillet, but the angle? Nah. Of course the angle is important. If it's incorrect, the spindles don't make the correct angles with the rails and the job will look like a bodge. Never done one myself nonsense. The spindles only requre to butt up against the fillet pieces. Verify with a spirit level that the spindle is vertical. The angles and lengths must be accurate to achieve all of that. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#31
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Andy Hall wrote: If you want to see the difference, go and try out a Makita LS1013 or DeWalt DW708 and compare with one of these £50 jobs. My experience of this does not agree with yours, I've used both a cheapo Screwfix and the expensive De Walt, and for repeatability of cut and accuracy, there was nothing to choose between them. IME the blade type and trueness, plays a far greater part than the price of the saw. Either can be made to cut at say 85.5 deg angles and as the setting and operation is a manual operation, care is called for. Modern alloy based tools are always IME more flexible than old cast iron ones, and there is very little to choose between makes IMO, other than power levels. Regards Capitol |
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#32
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#33
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On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:49:41 +0000, Capitol
wrote: Andy Hall wrote: If you want to see the difference, go and try out a Makita LS1013 or DeWalt DW708 and compare with one of these £50 jobs. My experience of this does not agree with yours, I've used both a cheapo Screwfix and the expensive De Walt, and for repeatability of cut and accuracy, there was nothing to choose between them. IME the blade type and trueness, plays a far greater part than the price of the saw. You must have had a dud blade or perhaps there was a setting problem. I looked at both the DeWalt 708 and the Makita LS1013. I bought the Makita, because the slide action was smoother than the DW and it is more sturdy, although it has a 250 rather than 300mm blade Cuts are spot on repeatable and there is also an adjustable depth stop Either can be made to cut at say 85.5 deg angles and as the setting and operation is a manual operation, care is called for. That's always true. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#34
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:49:41 +0000, Capitol wrote: Andy Hall wrote: If you want to see the difference, go and try out a Makita LS1013 or DeWalt DW708 and compare with one of these £50 jobs. My experience of this does not agree with yours, I've used both a cheapo Screwfix and the expensive De Walt, and for repeatability of cut and accuracy, there was nothing to choose between them. IME the blade type and trueness, plays a far greater part than the price of the saw. You must have had a dud blade or perhaps there was a setting problem. Nah. No difference. I looked at both the DeWalt 708 and the Makita LS1013. I bought the Makita, because the slide action was smoother than the DW and it is more sturdy, although it has a 250 rather than 300mm blade Cuts are spot on repeatable and there is also an adjustable depth stop Either can be made to cut at say 85.5 deg angles and as the setting and operation is a manual operation, care is called for. That's always true. -- .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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#35
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(Andrew) wrote in message om...
"Mark" wrote in message ... Andy Hall am typed: I'm going to replace my bannisters so am going to have to make quite a lot of 45 degree cuts and would like to get a powered mitre saw. Unfortunately I'm broke at the moment and can't really afford to spend much. Is it worth getting the 50 quid Ferm one from Screwfix (or any similarly priced one) or should I save the money until I can get something decent and do it all manually? Cheers Alternatively B&Q do a cheepie for £26, or I think with a laser sight guide £29. http://tinyurl.com/5a9dy On no account trust the lasers on these things. I have one from Argos which cuts perfect, repeatable right angles (all I really wanted it for) but the laser line is about 5 degrees out. Andrew I took a peek at the cheap ones mentioned from argos and b and q . The blade doesn't look like it would produce a fine cut and if you are cutting soft wood it might produce some tear out. It also doesn't look like it has any 'positive stops'.If it just has a screw to locate the angle then personally I wouldn't like that. I am no expert but a good mitre box ( not a plastic b and q one, may be the chippy on this board may make one up for you :-) and decent quality handsaw might be good enough and probably the best value, again if you are pants at carpentry then this might not be suited to you. For some power tools spending a few extra quid would be worthwhile ,in the longer run, if you are going to extend the range of woodwork you do. Not an expert, just my opinion. |
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#36
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Andy Hall wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:49:41 +0000, Capitol wrote: Andy Hall wrote: If you want to see the difference, go and try out a Makita LS1013 or DeWalt DW708 and compare with one of these £50 jobs. My experience of this does not agree with yours, I've used both a cheapo Screwfix and the expensive De Walt, and for repeatability of cut and accuracy, there was nothing to choose between them. IME the blade type and trueness, plays a far greater part than the price of the saw. You must have had a dud blade or perhaps there was a setting problem. He said they *both* worked well so your response doesn't make sense! -- Chris Green |
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#37
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wrote in message ... Andy Hall wrote: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:49:41 +0000, Capitol wrote: Andy Hall wrote: If you want to see the difference, go and try out a Makita LS1013 or DeWalt DW708 and compare with one of these £50 jobs. My experience of this does not agree with yours, I've used both a cheapo Screwfix and the expensive De Walt, and for repeatability of cut and accuracy, there was nothing to choose between them. IME the blade type and trueness, plays a far greater part than the price of the saw. Good point. Put top quality blade in a cheapo and it must be improved. You must have had a dud blade or perhaps there was a setting problem. He said they *both* worked well so your response doesn't make sense! Exactly. |
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#38
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#39
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#40
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On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:33:34 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
wrote in message ... Andy Hall wrote: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:49:41 +0000, Capitol wrote: Andy Hall wrote: If you want to see the difference, go and try out a Makita LS1013 or DeWalt DW708 and compare with one of these £50 jobs. My experience of this does not agree with yours, I've used both a cheapo Screwfix and the expensive De Walt, and for repeatability of cut and accuracy, there was nothing to choose between them. IME the blade type and trueness, plays a far greater part than the price of the saw. Good point. Put top quality blade in a cheapo and it must be improved. Typically, but not necessarily. You must have had a dud blade or perhaps there was a setting problem. He said they *both* worked well so your response doesn't make sense! Exactly. Your responses seldom make sense...... -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
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