Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.

MM

MM wrote:
Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.

Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
MM wrote:
Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.

Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?


Nah, he asked other people in person, the insults on Usenet are easier to
deal with though !...

MM wrote:
Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.

Try the one at http://www.bbc.co.uk/homes/property/. There are loads of
other ones around, though.

Grunff wrote:
MM wrote:
Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.

Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?

'bout frikking time /someone/ said that )


RT

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
MM wrote:
Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.

Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?

I knew someone would say it in the end.

When I undertake something I haven't done before, I do as
much research as possible. Then, and only then, do I ask
specific questions about the bits I haven't managed to fully
understand. In my experience, and certainly with the Internet,
you can find out most things about most stuff yourself.

Al

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:06:31 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?

Of course not.

I asked on CIX.

In message , R Taylor
writes
Grunff wrote:
MM wrote:
Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.

Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?

'bout frikking time /someone/ said that )

I've been saying it for years

And now it's the people who can't be arsed to google

(pot, kettle, black here on two occasions - being terminally lazy)
--
geoff

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:06:31 +0000, Grunff wrote:

MM wrote:
Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.

Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?

It's funny you should say this, Grumff, because I was going to ask
whether you had any tips on cleaning carpets? I have these carpets,
you see, which appear to have got dirty, probably through use, and
therefore I need a way to remove the dirt effectively and make them
look like brand new. After all, I don't want the new owners walking in
on Completion Day, muttering under their breath how some people cannot
even be arsed to ask on Usenet how things ought to be done. Well,
you'll want to help, I know you will. Feel free to start a new thread
if you think this one doesn't cover it effectively.

See ya later!

MM

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:36:29 GMT, "R Taylor"
wrote:

Grunff wrote:
MM wrote:
Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.

Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?

'bout frikking time /someone/ said that )

You may like to assist Grunff in aiding me with my latest request (see
above) for the best methods of cleaning a carpet, albeit a LO-COST
carpet. Probably, if I hadn't been such a tightwad and had bought some
expensive carpet with Scotchguard or Irishwatch or something, then I
would not now be needing to ask. Leave a message here for Grunff to
get back to us, okay?

MM

"MM" wrote:
Grunff wrote:
MM wrote:
Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.
Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?

It's funny you should say this, Grumff, because I was going to ask
whether you had any tips on cleaning carpets? I have these carpets,
you see, which appear to have got dirty, probably through use, and
therefore I need a way to remove the dirt effectively and make them
look like brand new. After all, I don't want the new owners walking in
on Completion Day, muttering under their breath how some people cannot
even be arsed to ask on Usenet how things ought to be done. Well,
you'll want to help, I know you will. Feel free to start a new thread
if you think this one doesn't cover it effectively.

I can't work out whether you're trying to be funny or not.

Al

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:13:40 -0000, "Al Reynolds"
wrote:


"Grunff" wrote in message
...
MM wrote:
Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.

Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?

I knew someone would say it in the end.

When I undertake something I haven't done before, I do as
much research as possible. Then, and only then, do I ask
specific questions about the bits I haven't managed to fully
understand. In my experience, and certainly with the Internet,
you can find out most things about most stuff yourself.

Obviously, Al, you have a social conscience, which, again obviously,
is more than could be said of me. You want to exhaust all avenues of
research first before burdening all of us here, which is a very
admirable trait. I do wish I could be more like you, but we're given
the cards we've been dealt and that's it, I'm afraid. Actually, when
this house move is over I am thinking of starting a group for those
like me for whom research is a closed book and who would rather just
ask a policeman. I mean, if you have ever wondered where the flippin'
heck the library *really* is, but didn't dare enquire, you'll know
where I'm coming from. Nowhere near the library, in fact.

MM

"MM" wrote:
"Al Reynolds" wrote:
"Grunff" wrote:
Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?

I knew someone would say it in the end.

When I undertake something I haven't done before, I do as
much research as possible. Then, and only then, do I ask
specific questions about the bits I haven't managed to fully
understand. In my experience, and certainly with the Internet,
you can find out most things about most stuff yourself.

Obviously, Al, you have a social conscience, which, again obviously,
is more than could be said of me. You want to exhaust all avenues of
research first before burdening all of us here, which is a very
admirable trait. I do wish I could be more like you, but we're given
the cards we've been dealt and that's it, I'm afraid. Actually, when
this house move is over I am thinking of starting a group for those
like me for whom research is a closed book and who would rather just
ask a policeman. I mean, if you have ever wondered where the flippin'
heck the library *really* is, but didn't dare enquire, you'll know
where I'm coming from. Nowhere near the library, in fact.

No, but by definition you have access to the Internet.

Several people on here have given you free and friendly
advice over the last few weeks, but Grunff was merely
making a reasonable request: Why waste bandwidth on
here asking questions that you could find out the answers
to yourself with only a modicum of effort?

You may argue that since people give you the information
here, why bother doing it yourself? Well:
(i) this is a DIY newsgroup
(ii) eventually people will get bored with you and not respond

Of course, it's possible we've all been the unwitting victims of
a particularly imaginative troll over the last few weeks - if that
is the case then I'd like to congratulate you on a job well done.

Have a fun day,
Al

Al Reynolds wrote:

MM wrote:

It's funny you should say this, Grumff, because I was going to ask
whether you had any tips on cleaning carpets? I have these carpets,
you see, which appear to have got dirty, probably through use, and
therefore I need a way to remove the dirt effectively and make them
look like brand new. After all, I don't want the new owners walking in
on Completion Day, muttering under their breath how some people cannot
even be arsed to ask on Usenet how things ought to be done. Well,
you'll want to help, I know you will. Feel free to start a new thread
if you think this one doesn't cover it effectively.


I can't work out whether you're trying to be funny or not.

No, I can't either!

But for MM, the way I'd do it is by hiring a wet carpet cleaner (any
tool hire shop). They do a very good job of cleaning carpets.

--
Grunff

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:23:29 -0000, "Al Reynolds"
wrote:

"MM" wrote:
"Al Reynolds" wrote:
"Grunff" wrote:
Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?

I knew someone would say it in the end.

When I undertake something I haven't done before, I do as
much research as possible. Then, and only then, do I ask
specific questions about the bits I haven't managed to fully
understand. In my experience, and certainly with the Internet,
you can find out most things about most stuff yourself.

Obviously, Al, you have a social conscience, which, again obviously,
is more than could be said of me. You want to exhaust all avenues of
research first before burdening all of us here, which is a very
admirable trait. I do wish I could be more like you, but we're given
the cards we've been dealt and that's it, I'm afraid. Actually, when
this house move is over I am thinking of starting a group for those
like me for whom research is a closed book and who would rather just
ask a policeman. I mean, if you have ever wondered where the flippin'
heck the library *really* is, but didn't dare enquire, you'll know
where I'm coming from. Nowhere near the library, in fact.

No, but by definition you have access to the Internet.

Several people on here have given you free and friendly
advice over the last few weeks, but Grunff was merely
making a reasonable request: Why waste bandwidth on
here asking questions that you could find out the answers
to yourself with only a modicum of effort?

You may argue that since people give you the information
here, why bother doing it yourself? Well:
(i) this is a DIY newsgroup
(ii) eventually people will get bored with you and not respond

Of course, it's possible we've all been the unwitting victims of
a particularly imaginative troll over the last few weeks - if that
is the case then I'd like to congratulate you on a job well done.

Have a fun day,
Al

I don't know whether to be embarrassed or offended over this. I was
surprised at first, but now I am puzzled. Because the concept of DIY
usually involves work around the house, and a good part of that work
must be in order to put one's property into the best condition for
selling, then buying another property to move into. Therefore, it
would seem to me that DIY is synonymous with all those makeover or
house buying proggies on the telly (Beeney, Allsop, Maurice, Spencer
et al).

In any case, I don't really see why you find it so offensive or
intrusive to be asked a question! You appear to be making a meal out
of a very simple little enquiry, though it would have been much easier
and quicker either to just not respond at all, if the question did not
interest you, or provide any relevant information if it did.

I can't get inside your head to try to understand why you take such
umbrage just because I post frequently. Others post even more
frequently, but they are not slagged off and criticised for it! Why
pick on me? I'm practically a pensioner. I think it's most unfair,
that's all.

MM

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 09:34:01 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Al Reynolds wrote:

MM wrote:

It's funny you should say this, Grumff, because I was going to ask
whether you had any tips on cleaning carpets? I have these carpets,
you see, which appear to have got dirty, probably through use, and
therefore I need a way to remove the dirt effectively and make them
look like brand new. After all, I don't want the new owners walking in
on Completion Day, muttering under their breath how some people cannot
even be arsed to ask on Usenet how things ought to be done. Well,
you'll want to help, I know you will. Feel free to start a new thread
if you think this one doesn't cover it effectively.


I can't work out whether you're trying to be funny or not.

No, I can't either!

But for MM, the way I'd do it is by hiring a wet carpet cleaner (any
tool hire shop). They do a very good job of cleaning carpets.

Thanks, Grunff!

MM

"MM" wrote:
I don't know whether to be embarrassed or offended over this. I was
surprised at first, but now I am puzzled. Because the concept of DIY
usually involves work around the house, and a good part of that work
must be in order to put one's property into the best condition for
selling, then buying another property to move into. Therefore, it
would seem to me that DIY is synonymous with all those makeover or
house buying proggies on the telly (Beeney, Allsop, Maurice, Spencer
et al).

No-one is arguing with the fact that your questions are relevant.

In any case, I don't really see why you find it so offensive or
intrusive to be asked a question! You appear to be making a meal out
of a very simple little enquiry, though it would have been much easier
and quicker either to just not respond at all, if the question did not
interest you, or provide any relevant information if it did.

Don't worry, that'll probably be what happens.

I can't get inside your head to try to understand why you take such
umbrage just because I post frequently. Others post even more
frequently, but they are not slagged off and criticised for it! Why
pick on me?

Okay, imagine there are three types of post:
(a) New thread posts where you are asking a question.
(b) Posts in which you reply to your own threads.
(c) Replies to other people's queries.
Newsgroups work best when there is a balance between the three.

If you look more closely at the people who post regularly, they
tend to have a much higher proportion of category (c) posts.

This isn't the main issue though. The main thing is that some of the
enquiries you have made could have been answered in very little
time through simple use of google and google groups. In the same
way as it is irritating when several people post the same question
over and over again (because the answer is readily available), it is
also irritating when one person posts lots of questions for which
answers are readily available.

I'm practically a pensioner. I think it's most unfair, that's all.

Age makes no difference on the Internet. As you state above, I
can ignore your posts if I am not interested. Perhaps you would
be better off ignoring mine?

Al

"MM" wrote
| I mean, if you have ever wondered where the flippin' heck
| the library *really* is, but didn't dare enquire, you'll
| know where I'm coming from. Nowhere near the library, in fact.

If you want to know where the library is, start at the fruiterer's and
follow the trail of banana skins and slightly-surprised-sounding 'ooks'.

Owain

"Grunff" wrote
| MM wrote:
| It's funny you should say this, Grumff, because I was going
| to ask whether you had any tips on cleaning carpets?
| But for MM, the way I'd do it is by hiring a wet carpet cleaner
| (any tool hire shop). They do a very good job of cleaning carpets.

Even better is to hire a wet and dry carpet cleaner. Then you can use it to
clean dry carpets without having to throw buckets of water over them.

It's even easier just to take the lightbulbs out and board up all the
windows. Then the new people won't be able to see the dirt.

Owain

"MM" wrote in message
...
Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.

MM

Your wife will have.

"Mary Fisher" wrote
| "MM" wrote
| Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days,
| The Day, that sort of thing.
| Your wife will have.

"Now which box did I pack her in?"

Owain

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:20:50 -0000, "Al Reynolds"
wrote:

Perhaps you would be better off ignoring mine?

Indeed.

MM

Owain wrote:

If you want to know where the library is, start at the fruiterer's and
follow the trail of banana skins and slightly-surprised-sounding 'ooks'.

Dead right. And watch your languate - do *not*, under any circumstances,
use the "m****y* word.

Sto lat (that's Polish for 'cheers') - Stefek

On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:16:13 +0000, Stefek Zaba
wrote:

Owain wrote:

If you want to know where the library is, start at the fruiterer's and
follow the trail of banana skins and slightly-surprised-sounding 'ooks'.

Dead right. And watch your languate - do *not*, under any circumstances,
use the "m****y* word.

Sto lat (that's Polish for 'cheers') - Stefek

Oh. Last time I went, people were saying Na zdrowie. Is that another?



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Stefek Zaba" wrote
| ... And watch your languate -

Is that the fluid produced by a languishing librarian?

Owain

In message , Stefek Zaba
writes
Owain wrote:
If you want to know where the library is, start at the fruiterer's
and
follow the trail of banana skins and slightly-surprised-sounding 'ooks'.

Dead right. And watch your languate - do *not*, under any
circumstances,
use the "m****y* word.

Sto lat (that's Polish for 'cheers') - Stefek

Nastrovia last time I heard


--
geoff

Andy Hall wrote:

Sto lat (that's Polish for 'cheers') - Stefek

Oh. Last time I went, people were saying Na zdrowie. Is that another?

Yes, "na zdrowie!" is the commonest drinking toast. "Sto lat" literally
means "a hundred years"; it's the first words and running theme of the
birthday/he's-a-jolly-good-fellow song, along the lines of "may s/he
live a hundred years". So you'd toast "Sto Lat" more often when
re-united with a mate you hadn't seen for a substantial period of time.

Where our West Country's most prolific fantasy author came across it I
don't know - and a momentary Google on '"sto lat" Polish Pratchett'
doesn't reveal any accounts of Terry getting wildly drunk in Bristol's
Polish Club while he was working on the Bristle Een Poes / Wessun Daily
Press a couple of decades ago. Though I suppose we could always start a
rumour ;-)

Stefek

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 10:35:01 +0000, Stefek Zaba
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

Sto lat (that's Polish for 'cheers') - Stefek

Oh. Last time I went, people were saying Na zdrowie. Is that another?

Yes, "na zdrowie!" is the commonest drinking toast. "Sto lat" literally
means "a hundred years"; it's the first words and running theme of the
birthday/he's-a-jolly-good-fellow song, along the lines of "may s/he
live a hundred years". So you'd toast "Sto Lat" more often when
re-united with a mate you hadn't seen for a substantial period of time.

Where our West Country's most prolific fantasy author came across it I
don't know - and a momentary Google on '"sto lat" Polish Pratchett'
doesn't reveal any accounts of Terry getting wildly drunk in Bristol's
Polish Club while he was working on the Bristle Een Poes / Wessun Daily
Press a couple of decades ago. Though I suppose we could always start a
rumour ;-)

Stefek

What gets me is, why is Polish so hard? I know German backwards, but
even if I didn't, there are many words that are similar in English.
But Polish doesn't permit one to guess ANYthing! Such a shame, as
Polish girls are so pretty, and Polish lager is fantastic.

MM

MM wrote:


What gets me is, why is Polish so hard? I know German backwards, but
even if I didn't, there are many words that are similar in English.
But Polish doesn't permit one to guess ANYthing! Such a shame, as
Polish girls are so pretty, and Polish lager is fantastic.

'S a different family of Yurripian languages - Slavic. Polish, Czech,
Serbo-Croat, Russian, Ukranian to my certain and personal knowledge are
all closely related; some are even mutually intelligible between native
speakers of goodwill - I remember managing to hold a "conversation" with
a Serbo-Croat speaker which felt a bit like reading Chaucer - clearly
"sort of" the same language, but some words didn't make any sense, while
plenty of others were a bit of a leap away - as if someone you were
talking to (in English, natch ;-) called a "door" a "portice", say: for
a moment you'd be flummoxed, then you'd think "oh, portice, that's
almost like portal, which is an old/weird word for an
entrance-way/doorish sort of thing".

Polish has quite a lot of Latin-derived words in it, what with the major
cultural influences over the last thousand years being the Church,
Italy, and France; for much of the Middle Ages, French was the
"aspirational" language for the educated clarses. There's a smattering
of German-root words, more frequently used in the Western part (closer
to Germany, right?), some of which were flushed out (with only partial
success) by a "linguistic purity" movement in the 20s and 30s when
Poland regained independence/existence. So, f'r example, spuds were
widely known as "kartofle", clearly derived from German "kartofflen", in
the Western parts; but in the Eastern bits were more usually "ziemnaki",
basically meaning "earth things" ("ziema" being "earth"), and this usage
was Encouraged in the interests of "deGermanification" (a response to
Polish being banned/discouraged for the previous 120-or-so years of
national non-existence). Same kind of idea as the French Academy, and
about as succesful in influencing language-as-actually-spoken...

These days, Polish is adopting lots of English words too - from the
worlds of entertainment and business particulary, e.g. 'biznes' (from
'business' has more or less replaced 'przedsiebiorstwo' - and mutating
meanings of the Latin-derived words to come closer to the English. For
example, "ewentualnie", which is "like" the English word 'eventually',
used to mean *only* what 'eventuell' still does in German, meaning
'possibly', 'contingently', 'under certain (unspecified) circumstances';
but more recently has come to be widely used (if not Accepted Among
Those Who Consider Themselves The Best Speakers ;-) as also being usable
to mean what 'eventually' does in English - i.e. will happen given
merely the passage of time.

Anyway, the majority of the gorgeous young Polish women you'll come
across will talk pretty good English (Russian used to be the compulsory
school foreign language, but oddly enough has dropped out of favour
since the end of Communism ;-). As for the lager - each to their own; if
you're going to drink that kind of beer, Zywiec and similar are pretty
good examples. Me, though, I'd much rather a good dark ale or a mild,
though they're not at readily available here in the Wesvinglun as they
were Oop Noorth where I learnt to drink!

Cheers (na zdrowie, sto lat, spotkamy sie pod stolem...) - Stefek

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 12:07:08 +0000, MM wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 10:35:01 +0000, Stefek Zaba
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

Sto lat (that's Polish for 'cheers') - Stefek

Oh. Last time I went, people were saying Na zdrowie. Is that another?

Yes, "na zdrowie!" is the commonest drinking toast. "Sto lat" literally
means "a hundred years"; it's the first words and running theme of the
birthday/he's-a-jolly-good-fellow song, along the lines of "may s/he
live a hundred years". So you'd toast "Sto Lat" more often when
re-united with a mate you hadn't seen for a substantial period of time.

Where our West Country's most prolific fantasy author came across it I
don't know - and a momentary Google on '"sto lat" Polish Pratchett'
doesn't reveal any accounts of Terry getting wildly drunk in Bristol's
Polish Club while he was working on the Bristle Een Poes / Wessun Daily
Press a couple of decades ago. Though I suppose we could always start a
rumour ;-)

Stefek

What gets me is, why is Polish so hard? I know German backwards, but
even if I didn't, there are many words that are similar in English.
But Polish doesn't permit one to guess ANYthing! Such a shame, as
Polish girls are so pretty, and Polish lager is fantastic.

MM

At least one can read place names etc.

Try Russian. You have to learn the alphabet as well.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:47:10 +0000, Stefek Zaba
wrote:



Polish has quite a lot of Latin-derived words in it, what with the major
cultural influences over the last thousand years being the Church,
Italy, and France; for much of the Middle Ages, French was the
"aspirational" language for the educated clarses.

So does this explain the large amount of French business influence, do
you think? Last time I went to Warsaw, the numbers of Carrefour
(and even Castorama) stores was noticeable. Mind you, there was a
Marks and Sparks and a Tescos as well, so there isn't a total gallic
monopoly.



These days, Polish is adopting lots of English words too - from the
worlds of entertainment and business particulary, e.g. 'biznes' (from
'business' has more or less replaced 'przedsiebiorstwo' - and mutating
meanings of the Latin-derived words to come closer to the English. For
example, "ewentualnie", which is "like" the English word 'eventually',
used to mean *only* what 'eventuell' still does in German, meaning
'possibly', 'contingently', 'under certain (unspecified) circumstances';
but more recently has come to be widely used (if not Accepted Among
Those Who Consider Themselves The Best Speakers ;-) as also being usable
to mean what 'eventually' does in English - i.e. will happen given
merely the passage of time.

That would be a shame if it becomes as polluted with English as most
other languages have become. I was reading a survey recently that
covered the percentage of IT technical words that had been coined in
the language vs. borrowed from English. In French, German and
Italian it was in the 50-60% range, whereas the Finns had managed over
90%.

If MM thought that Polish was hard then it would be a doddle compared
to Finnish. The language is on the same root as Estonian and
Hungarian, but only distantly so. Added to this, there is virtually
zero body language - until after a few beers that is..... :-)









--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Stefek Zaba" wrote
| MM wrote:
| What gets me is, why is Polish so hard? I know German backwards,
| but even if I didn't, there are many words that are similar in
| English. But Polish doesn't permit one to guess ANYthing! Such
| a shame, as Polish girls are so pretty, and Polish lager is
| fantastic.
| 'S a different family of Yurripian languages - Slavic. Polish, Czech,
| Serbo-Croat, Russian, Ukranian to my certain and personal knowledge are
| all closely related; some are even mutually intelligible between native
| speakers of goodwill

So, if MM wants to speak Polish, he shouldn't start from English!

Owain

"Andy Hall" wrote
| Last time I went to Warsaw, the numbers of Carrefour
| (and even Castorama) stores was noticeable. Mind you,
| there was a Marks and Sparks and a Tescos as well, so
| there isn't a total gallic monopoly.

Tescos are supposed to be doing well in Poland (and a lot of other places).
Several years ago the chief exec promised transferring Polish skills, eg
bakery, back to the UK. As this hasn't happened yet, still have to rely on
Lidl for interested imported things.

Owain

Andy Hall wrote:

So does this explain the large amount of French business influence, do
you think? Last time I went to Warsaw, the numbers of Carrefour
(and even Castorama) stores was noticeable. Mind you, there was a
Marks and Sparks and a Tescos as well, so there isn't a total gallic
monopoly.

Any influence is marginal - French companies might be a tiny bit more
warmly received at first, but the inward investment process - and the
usual support mechanisms for it from the host administrations, both
overt (tax concessions) and covert (bribes, unfortunately) - are as you
know decided on colder, financial factors than vague memories of
Napoleon's armies having been a source of hope during independence
struggles 180 years ago!

That would be a shame if it becomes as polluted with English as most
other languages have become. I was reading a survey recently that
covered the percentage of IT technical words that had been coined in
the language vs. borrowed from English. In French, German and
Italian it was in the 50-60% range, whereas the Finns had managed over
90%.

Casual reading of the occasional Google hits suggests the web-writing
Polish geek prefers the English-derived term even when there's a 'pure'
Polish term more or less available, other than for those words where
there's a well-established pre-existing usage. To some extent it's just
a matter of pragmatic survival - if you're compiling from source (lots
of Linux hackers in Poland!) or using recent versions of commercial
apps, their routine/variable names and menu entries respectively will
typically be in (American) English. The survey you mention sounds like
an interesting starting-point, but to be informative you'd need to count
the usage of the English-derived vs r/nationally-reconstructed terms,
rather than the mere existence of the latter and its use in the odd
school textbook...

(Though on the topic of the Polish Linux culture, there's a hilarious
T-shirt slogan doing the rounds - "Nie rzucim ziemi skad nasz root".
It's a bilingual pun on a famous patriotic song - but explaining it in
detail would be tedious and unfunny when done).

If MM thought that Polish was hard then it would be a doddle compared
to Finnish. The language is on the same root as Estonian and
Hungarian, but only distantly so. Added to this, there is virtually
zero body language - until after a few beers that is..... :-)

I'll take your word for that one - I understand all three are classified
as 'Uralic' languages, hailing from the far edge of Siberial.

In message , Andy Hall
writes

What gets me is, why is Polish so hard? I know German backwards, but
even if I didn't, there are many words that are similar in English.
But Polish doesn't permit one to guess ANYthing! Such a shame, as
Polish girls are so pretty, and Polish lager is fantastic.

MM

At least one can read place names etc.

Try Russian. You have to learn the alphabet as well.

The greek alphabet at least helps you take a stab at it

--
geoff

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:47:10 +0000, Stefek Zaba
wrote:

MM wrote:


What gets me is, why is Polish so hard? I know German backwards, but
even if I didn't, there are many words that are similar in English.
But Polish doesn't permit one to guess ANYthing! Such a shame, as
Polish girls are so pretty, and Polish lager is fantastic.

'S a different family of Yurripian languages - Slavic. Polish, Czech,
Serbo-Croat, Russian, Ukranian to my certain and personal knowledge are
all closely related; some are even mutually intelligible between native
speakers of goodwill - I remember managing to hold a "conversation" with
a Serbo-Croat speaker which felt a bit like reading Chaucer - clearly
"sort of" the same language, but some words didn't make any sense, while
plenty of others were a bit of a leap away - as if someone you were
talking to (in English, natch ;-) called a "door" a "portice", say: for
a moment you'd be flummoxed, then you'd think "oh, portice, that's
almost like portal, which is an old/weird word for an
entrance-way/doorish sort of thing".

Polish has quite a lot of Latin-derived words in it, what with the major
cultural influences over the last thousand years being the Church,
Italy, and France; for much of the Middle Ages, French was the
"aspirational" language for the educated clarses. There's a smattering
of German-root words, more frequently used in the Western part (closer
to Germany, right?), some of which were flushed out (with only partial
success) by a "linguistic purity" movement in the 20s and 30s when
Poland regained independence/existence. So, f'r example, spuds were
widely known as "kartofle", clearly derived from German "kartofflen", in
the Western parts; but in the Eastern bits were more usually "ziemnaki",
basically meaning "earth things" ("ziema" being "earth"), and this usage
was Encouraged in the interests of "deGermanification" (a response to
Polish being banned/discouraged for the previous 120-or-so years of
national non-existence). Same kind of idea as the French Academy, and
about as succesful in influencing language-as-actually-spoken...

These days, Polish is adopting lots of English words too - from the
worlds of entertainment and business particulary, e.g. 'biznes' (from
'business' has more or less replaced 'przedsiebiorstwo' - and mutating
meanings of the Latin-derived words to come closer to the English. For
example, "ewentualnie", which is "like" the English word 'eventually',
used to mean *only* what 'eventuell' still does in German, meaning
'possibly', 'contingently', 'under certain (unspecified) circumstances';
but more recently has come to be widely used (if not Accepted Among
Those Who Consider Themselves The Best Speakers ;-) as also being usable
to mean what 'eventually' does in English - i.e. will happen given
merely the passage of time.

Anyway, the majority of the gorgeous young Polish women you'll come
across will talk pretty good English (Russian used to be the compulsory
school foreign language, but oddly enough has dropped out of favour
since the end of Communism ;-). As for the lager - each to their own; if
you're going to drink that kind of beer, Zywiec and similar are pretty
good examples. Me, though, I'd much rather a good dark ale or a mild,
though they're not at readily available here in the Wesvinglun as they
were Oop Noorth where I learnt to drink!

Cheers (na zdrowie, sto lat, spotkamy sie pod stolem...) - Stefek

Fascinating! Thanks.

MM

"MM" wrote in message
...

Fascinating! Thanks.

Indeed. But does it answer the question about moving? I mean - you weren't
intending moving to Poland, were you?

Mary

MM

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...


Try Russian. You have to learn the alphabet as well.

That's not difficult.

Some letters are the same as English. Some or the same but different. Only
the rest are not like anything else and one or two are so much like Greek
that there's not much new to learn.

Mary



--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Owain" wrote in message
...
"Stefek Zaba" wrote
| ... And watch your languate -

Is that the fluid produced by a languishing librarian?

I wondered if it were Welsh.

A daughter, who already knows quite a bit of it, started formal Welsh
lessons last night and practised them on me today.

I told her to wash out her mouth with soap.

Oh dear, that reminds me of John Peel again :-(

Mary

Owain

"Al Reynolds" wrote in message
...
"MM" wrote:
Grunff wrote:
MM wrote:
Checklists for 2 weeks before the move, then 1 week, 3 days, The Day,
that sort of thing.
Tell me, before Usenet existed, did you ever think *anything* through
yourself?

It's funny you should say this, Grumff, because I was going to ask
whether you had any tips on cleaning carpets? I have these carpets,
you see, which appear to have got dirty, probably through use, and
therefore I need a way to remove the dirt effectively and make them
look like brand new. After all, I don't want the new owners walking in
on Completion Day, muttering under their breath how some people cannot
even be arsed to ask on Usenet how things ought to be done. Well,
you'll want to help, I know you will. Feel free to start a new thread
if you think this one doesn't cover it effectively.

I can't work out whether you're trying to be funny or not.

You're not as bright as I thought ... unless you're being ironic of course.

Mary

Al