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EICR
Hi,
I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? He has a good review rating and was booked via myconstructor web site. The sparks I've used before is on holiday (whatever one of those is) which is why I went to that web site. Ta. |
EICR
On Fri, 28 May 2021 17:22:33 +0100, Grumps wrote:
Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? He has a good review rating and was booked via myconstructor web site. The sparks I've used before is on holiday (whatever one of those is) which is why I went to that web site. Ta. Perhaps he thought the heaters were 1kW. |
EICR
On Fri, 28 May 2021 17:22:33 +0100, Grumps wrote:
Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? He has a good review rating and was booked via myconstructor web site. The sparks I've used before is on holiday (whatever one of those is) which is why I went to that web site. Ta. I would just turn them on and if they trip out, phone the electrician and tell him there must be a fault with his work. |
EICR
On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote:
Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? He has a good review rating and was booked via myconstructor web site. The sparks I've used before is on holiday (whatever one of those is) which is why I went to that web site. Ta. A 16A MCB and 1.5mm T&E may be fine but there are other factors to consider. Length of cable and thermal insulation around the cable are two things that might affect the choice of MCB. Of course if he fits 6A MCBs then they will trip (maybe not the 1500W ones). Without knowing his reasons I could only guess. Of course 10A MCBs are available which might be suitable (if 16A is for some reason not) and they would not trip with a 2kW heater. Keep us updated. -- Adam |
EICR
Surely one could just assume they are what they are and act accordingly and
let him know why you did not do the change. After all its not so adversarial is it? You don't want to upset him, in case you need him another time we all make errors. Brian -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Scott" wrote in message ... On Fri, 28 May 2021 17:22:33 +0100, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? He has a good review rating and was booked via myconstructor web site. The sparks I've used before is on holiday (whatever one of those is) which is why I went to that web site. Ta. I would just turn them on and if they trip out, phone the electrician and tell him there must be a fault with his work. |
EICR
On 28/05/2021 17:53, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2021 17:22:33 +0100, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? He has a good review rating and was booked via myconstructor web site. The sparks I've used before is on holiday (whatever one of those is) which is why I went to that web site. Ta. I would just turn them on and if they trip out, phone the electrician and tell him there must be a fault with his work. I have a gut feeling that the tenant may be playing Chinese whispers. They are not usually the most reliable people to pass on the correct information. -- Adam |
EICR
On Sat, 29 May 2021 09:03:22 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote: Surely one could just assume they are what they are and act accordingly and let him know why you did not do the change. After all its not so adversarial is it? You don't want to upset him, in case you need him another time we all make errors. Not adversarial, just leaving the job to the professionals and not trying to tell him how to do his job. If you went to the doctor, you would describe the symptoms. You would not go in saying you should do this and this. |
EICR
On 29/05/2021 09:44, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 29 May 2021 09:03:22 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote: Surely one could just assume they are what they are and act accordingly and let him know why you did not do the change. After all its not so adversarial is it? You don't want to upset him, in case you need him another time we all make errors. Not adversarial, just leaving the job to the professionals and not trying to tell him how to do his job. If you went to the doctor, you would describe the symptoms. You would not go in saying you should do this and this. My mother would:-) -- Adam |
EICR
In article , Scott
wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2021 09:03:22 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote: Surely one could just assume they are what they are and act accordingly and let him know why you did not do the change. After all its not so adversarial is it? You don't want to upset him, in case you need him another time we all make errors. Not adversarial, just leaving the job to the professionals and not trying to tell him how to do his job. If you went to the doctor, you would describe the symptoms. You would not go in saying you should do this and this. The nearby village hall had an installed stage dimmer and lights fed off a 45A breaker. I was called in since fading up more than one light tripped the breaker. It turned out that the 'professional' who did their safety check changed the 45A breaker for a 6A one. "It's lighting, that only needs a 6A breaker!" -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
EICR
"Scott" wrote in message ... On Sat, 29 May 2021 09:03:22 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote: Surely one could just assume they are what they are and act accordingly and let him know why you did not do the change. After all its not so adversarial is it? You don't want to upset him, in case you need him another time we all make errors. Not adversarial, just leaving the job to the professionals and not trying to tell him how to do his job. If you went to the doctor, you would describe the symptoms. You would not go in saying you should do this and this. I have in fact done that a number of times when my GP has failed to find a pulse in my ankles and my physician had pointed out that with some people the arterys are too deep in the ankle and you need to check for a pulse on the top of the foot and when he does that he can find the pulse fine. I have in fact needed to do that more than once. I continue to use him because he is brilliant with small skin cancers that need minor surgery and he is quite happy to agree when I pull him up on stuff like that. |
More Heavy Trolling by the Nym-Shifting Senile Australian Pest!
On Sat, 29 May 2021 19:52:15 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: Not adversarial, just leaving the job to the professionals and not trying to tell him how to do his job. If you went to the doctor, you would describe the symptoms. You would not go in saying you should do this and this. I have in fact done that a number of times when my GP Nobody's surprised! Wanna BET that even your GP finds you are an obnoxious pigheaded pest, senile Rodent? -- Xeno to senile Rodent: "You're a sad old man Rod, truly sad." MID: |
EICR
On 29/05/2021 09:55, ARW wrote:
On 29/05/2021 09:44, Scott wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2021 09:03:22 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote: Surely one could just assume they are what they are and act accordingly and let him know why you did not do the change. After all its not so adversarial is it? You don't want to upset him, in case you need him another time we all make errors. Not adversarial, just leaving the job to the professionals and not trying to tell him how to do his job. If you went to the doctor, you would describe the symptoms.Â* You would not go in saying you should do this and this. My mother would:-) Yorkshire lass ? |
EICR
On 29/05/2021 12:27, Andrew wrote:
On 29/05/2021 09:55, ARW wrote: On 29/05/2021 09:44, Scott wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2021 09:03:22 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote: Surely one could just assume they are what they are and act accordingly and let him know why you did not do the change. After all its not so adversarial is it? You don't want to upset him, in case you need him another time we all make errors. Not adversarial, just leaving the job to the professionals and not trying to tell him how to do his job. If you went to the doctor, you would describe the symptoms.Â* You would not go in saying you should do this and this. My mother would:-) Yorkshire lass ? Yes and an ex nurse. -- Adam |
EICR
On 29/05/2021 10:19, charles wrote:
In article , Scott wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2021 09:03:22 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote: Surely one could just assume they are what they are and act accordingly and let him know why you did not do the change. After all its not so adversarial is it? You don't want to upset him, in case you need him another time we all make errors. Not adversarial, just leaving the job to the professionals and not trying to tell him how to do his job. If you went to the doctor, you would describe the symptoms. You would not go in saying you should do this and this. The nearby village hall had an installed stage dimmer and lights fed off a 45A breaker. I was called in since fading up more than one light tripped the breaker. It turned out that the 'professional' who did their safety check changed the 45A breaker for a 6A one. "It's lighting, that only needs a 6A breaker!" I switched off a 32A "Kitchen sockets" MCB yesterday. All the lights over the ice rink went out and the microwaves in the kitchen stayed on. -- Adam |
EICR
On Sat, 29 May 2021 09:44:16 +0100, Scott
wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2021 09:03:22 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote: snip If you went to the doctor, you would describe the symptoms. You would not go in saying you should do this and this. I have been know :-) I had one ask me what I wanted her to do re my 'condition'. Younger ones may not be so keen I suppose ... Avpx -- 'Pcharn'kov!' Footnote: 'Your feet shall be cut off and be buried several yards from your body so your ghost won't walk.' (Interesting Times) Sat 10133 Sep 13:10:01 BST 1993 13:10:01 up 5 days, 23:31, 11 users, load average: 0.44, 0.45, 0.38 |
EICR
On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote:
Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
EICR
On 29/05/2021 09:19, ARW wrote:
On 28/05/2021 17:53, Scott wrote: On Fri, 28 May 2021 17:22:33 +0100, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? He has a good review rating and was booked via myconstructor web site. The sparks I've used before is on holiday (whatever one of those is) which is why I went to that web site. Ta. I would just turn them on and if they trip out, phone the electrician and tell him there must be a fault with his work. I have a gut feeling that the tenant may be playing Chinese whispers. They are not usually the most reliable people to pass on the correct information. +1 Yup too easy for nuance to get lost, or a subtle change of wording that has no real effect in plain English, take on a different meaning in technical lingo. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
EICR
On 28/05/2021 18:42, ARW wrote:
On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? He has a good review rating and was booked via myconstructor web site. The sparks I've used before is on holiday (whatever one of those is) which is why I went to that web site. Ta. A 16A MCB and 1.5mm T&E may be fine but there are other factors to consider. Length of cable and thermal insulation around the cable are two things that might affect the choice of MCB. Of course if he fits 6A MCBs then they will trip (maybe not the 1500W ones). Without knowing his reasons I could only guess. Of course 10A MCBs are available which might be suitable (if 16A is for some reason not) and they would not trip with a 2kW heater. Keep us updated. So, I had a quick visit to the property (still haven't got the full EICR yet) and had a look at the wiring behind the FCU. Well would you believe it, it's almost certainly only 1.5mm2. I measured the cable (with my trusty plastic vernier) and it was a little more than 8mm but much less than 10mm. I don't have any edition of the regs but I do see table 4D1A (which is probably for most domestic situations) that shows max capacity of 1.5mm2 cable as 14.5A (cable is plastered into the wall). So the electrician was partly right I think. 16A MCB is too much, but his suggestion of 6A would be too little. When I get the report I'll have a chat and hopefully come to a compromise of using 10A MCBs. The property was re-wired in 2004. Would (or did) the regs change or did the original installer make a mistake? |
EICR
On Sun, 30 May 2021 16:35:05 +0100, Grumps wrote:
I don't have any edition of the regs but I do see table 4D1A (which is probably for most domestic situations) that shows max capacity of 1.5mm2 cable as 14.5A (cable is plastered into the wall). So the electrician was partly right I think. 16A MCB is too much, but his suggestion of 6A would be too little. When I get the report I'll have a chat and hopefully come to a compromise of using 10A MCBs. Are the heaters supplied by a Fused Connector? And, is each on its own cicruit? If so, no need to downrate the circuit breakers, as there is overload protection at the far end, via the fuse. Fault protection may need to be checked with a 1mm CPC. |
EICR
On 30/05/2021 16:35, Grumps wrote:
On 28/05/2021 18:42, ARW wrote: Of course 10A MCBs are available which might be suitable (if 16A is for some reason not) and they would not trip with a 2kW heater. Keep us updated. So, I had a quick visit to the property (still haven't got the full EICR yet) and had a look at the wiring behind the FCU. Well would you believe it, it's almost certainly only 1.5mm2. I measured the cable (with my trusty plastic vernier) and it was a little more than 8mm but much less than 10mm. I don't have any edition of the regs but I do see table 4D1A (which is probably for most domestic situations) that shows max capacity of 1.5mm2 cable as 14.5A (cable is plastered into the wall). I think you are looking at the wrong installation reference method. "Buried in masonry" is treated as method C, same as "clipped direct". So on current draw alone 20A would be a closer estimation. (there may be voltage drop issues if the cable is long) See: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...#Metric_Cables So the electrician was partly right I think. 16A MCB is too much, but his suggestion of 6A would be too little. When I get the report I'll have a chat and hopefully come to a compromise of using 10A MCBs. I would argue that 16A is fine for a number of reasons. Primarily, the MCB only *has* to provide fault protection at the origin of the circuit, not necessarily overload protection - that can be done elsewhere (a spur on a 32A ring circuit being a prime example - the 32A MCB will not provide overload protection for a single length of 2.5mm^2). You seem to have adequate overload protection via two means - firstly by selection of power consumption of the appliance - since this is hard wired you don't have to consider someone "plugging in" a too heavy load. Secondly you mention a FCU. That kind of implies a 13A fuse is the highest that can be fitted there, and that will also prevent overload on the cable. The property was re-wired in 2004. Would (or did) the regs change They have changed in that time (from the 16th to the 18th edition - so new rules on RCD protection, and maximum permitted earth loop impedance Cmin factiors[1])), but not in ways that would have a bearing here. or did the original installer make a mistake? Not really - just engineered it to meet the requirements without any additional overspend or overbuild. [1] http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...2C_Cmin_factor http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...-_17th_edition -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
EICR
On 30/05/2021 19:00, John Rumm wrote:
On 30/05/2021 16:35, Grumps wrote: On 28/05/2021 18:42, ARW wrote: Of course 10A MCBs are available which might be suitable (if 16A is for some reason not) and they would not trip with a 2kW heater. Keep us updated. So, I had a quick visit to the property (still haven't got the full EICR yet) and had a look at the wiring behind the FCU. Well would you believe it, it's almost certainly only 1.5mm2. I measured the cable (with my trusty plastic vernier) and it was a little more than 8mm but much less than 10mm. I don't have any edition of the regs but I do see table 4D1A (which is probably for most domestic situations) that shows max capacity of 1.5mm2 cable as 14.5A (cable is plastered into the wall). I think you are looking at the wrong installation reference method. "Buried in masonry" is treated as method C, same as "clipped direct". So on current draw alone 20A would be a closer estimation. (there may be voltage drop issues if the cable is long) See: http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...#Metric_Cables So the electrician was partly right I think. 16A MCB is too much, but his suggestion of 6A would be too little. When I get the report I'll have a chat and hopefully come to a compromise of using 10A MCBs. I would argue that 16A is fine for a number of reasons. Primarily, the MCB only *has* to provide fault protection at the origin of the circuit, not necessarily overload protection - that can be done elsewhere (a spur on a 32A ring circuit being a prime example - the 32A MCB will not provide overload protection for a single length of 2.5mm^2). You seem to have adequate overload protection via two means - firstly by selection of power consumption of the appliance - since this is hard wired you don't have to consider someone "plugging in" a too heavy load. Secondly you mention a FCU. That kind of implies a 13A fuse is the highest that can be fitted there, and that will also prevent overload on the cable. The property was re-wired in 2004. Would (or did) the regs change They have changed in that time (from the 16th to the 18th edition - so new rules on RCD protection, and maximum permitted earth loop impedance Cmin factiors[1])), but not in ways that would have a bearing here. or did the original installer make a mistake? Not really - just engineered it to meet the requirements without any additional overspend or overbuild. [1] http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...2C_Cmin_factor http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...-_17th_edition Thanks for the wiki link. Very concise information. So the cable run leading to the FCU is method C (buried in plaster in this case), but perhaps the electrician has determined that some parts of the run are in the ceiling space and probably that would mean method 100 or 101 applies. Either way, the 13A fuse in the FCU should make any method acceptable except 103. Voltage drop would not be an issue either. Looks like I'll have to wait for the report. |
EICR
On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote:
Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? He has a good review rating and was booked via myconstructor web site. The sparks I've used before is on holiday (whatever one of those is) which is why I went to that web site. Ta. I'm tempted to contact him before he publishes his report as I believe a copy of a failing report also goes to the Local Authority. It might be less embarrassing for all if you explain why in some instances 6A MCB wouldn't be suitable. Also check if a 10A is available for your CU. |
EICR
On 31/05/2021 01:40, Fredxx wrote:
On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? He has a good review rating and was booked via myconstructor web site. The sparks I've used before is on holiday (whatever one of those is) which is why I went to that web site. Ta. I'm tempted to contact him before he publishes his report as I believe a copy of a failing report also goes to the Local Authority. It might be less embarrassing for all if you explain why in some instances 6A MCB wouldn't be suitable. Also check if a 10A is available for your CU. I have sent him a text. It is a bank holiday so won't call him and won't expect a reply until tomorrow. I wanted to get some of my facts right before questioning his reasoning for the MCB change. I now have the wiki to refer to (thanks John Rumm) so won't sound like a complete idiot! Yep, I'm sure the report will go to the LA, but eventually if work needs to be done, or he needs to make a correction, then that will also go to the LA. And yes, 10A MCBs are available for this CU at just £3 each. |
EICR
On Sat, 29 May 2021 12:13:19 GMT, The Nomad
wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2021 09:44:16 +0100, Scott wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2021 09:03:22 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote: snip If you went to the doctor, you would describe the symptoms. You would not go in saying you should do this and this. I have been know :-) I had one ask me what I wanted her to do re my 'condition'. Younger ones may not be so keen I suppose ... That was what used to happen with hay fever medication before it was taken off prescription. It started as 'I see last year you had A and B. Did this work? Good. I'll give your the same again this year' and eventually evolved to 'I always get A and B and it works well'. No further questions - prescription in hand. |
EICR
On 29/05/2021 13:21, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. I have the full report now. All circuits have been deemed to be reference method 100. The 5 heaters are on 1.5mm2 cable with 16A MCB. The failures are listed as: 3x 1.5mm cable in a 6A breaker (these are lights and smoke detectors). Incorrect breaker sizes for heater circuits. Recommended solution: Downgrade MCBs to 10A C type for inrush protection of 1.5mm cables. Split the doubled up 6A circuit. So my quick questions a Are you not allowed to have 3 circuits in one breaker? Can you not protect 1.5mm2 ref method 100 wiring with a 16A breaker? The electrician quote to "mend" this is £205 inc VAT. Ta. |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 09:32, Grumps wrote:
On 29/05/2021 13:21, John Rumm wrote: On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. I have the full report now. All circuits have been deemed to be reference method 100. The 5 heaters are on 1.5mm2 cable with 16A MCB. Just for clarity, is it 4 MCBs for 5 heaters? The failures are listed as: 3x 1.5mm cable in a 6A breaker (these are lights and smoke detectors). Incorrect breaker sizes for heater circuits. Recommended solution: Downgrade MCBs to 10A C type for inrush protection of 1.5mm cables. Split the doubled up 6A circuit. So my quick questions a Are you not allowed to have 3 circuits in one breaker? Assuming the MCB is rated to take 3 x 1.5mm cables (and I can't think why it wouldn't be) I wonder if the argument is that there is insufficient resilience (Reg 314's "314.1 Every installation shall be divided into circuits, as necessary, to: (i) avoid danger and minimize inconvenience in the event of a fault..."). Which lights are on that MCB and which on separate circuits? Can you not protect 1.5mm2 ref method 100 wiring with a 16A breaker? I wonder if that "Method 100" will become a typo for "Method 101" in response to questions :( -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 11:27, Robin wrote:
On 01/06/2021 09:32, Grumps wrote: On 29/05/2021 13:21, John Rumm wrote: On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. I have the full report now. All circuits have been deemed to be reference method 100. The 5 heaters are on 1.5mm2 cable with 16A MCB. Just for clarity, is it 4 MCBs for 5 heaters? 5 MCBs; 4 are for heaters and one for a towel rail. The failures are listed as: 3x 1.5mm cable in a 6A breaker (these are lights and smoke detectors). Incorrect breaker sizes for heater circuits. Recommended solution: Downgrade MCBs to 10A C type for inrush protection of 1.5mm cables. Split the doubled up 6A circuit. So my quick questions a Are you not allowed to have 3 circuits in one breaker? Assuming the MCB is rated to take 3 x 1.5mm cables (and I can't think why it wouldn't be) I wonder if the argument is that there is insufficient resilience (Reg 314's "314.1 Every installation shall be divided into circuits, as necessary, to: (i) avoid danger and minimize inconvenience in the event of a fault..."). Which lights are on that MCB and which on separate circuits? Bathroom lights are on that MCB. Can you not protect 1.5mm2 ref method 100 wiring with a 16A breaker? I wonder if that "Method 100" will become a typo for "Method 101" in response to questions :( Yep, I think it might ;) Maybe I should just say "sod it" and pay the £205. Although I do like a bit of a discussion/argument if I have some firm facts on my side. |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 09:32, Grumps wrote:
On 29/05/2021 13:21, John Rumm wrote: On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. I have the full report now. All circuits have been deemed to be reference method 100. The 5 heaters are on 1.5mm2 cable with 16A MCB. The failures are listed as: 3x 1.5mm cable in a 6A breaker (these are lights and smoke detectors). Incorrect breaker sizes for heater circuits. Recommended solution: Downgrade MCBs to 10A C type for inrush protection of 1.5mm cables. Split the doubled up 6A circuit. So my quick questions a Are you not allowed to have 3 circuits in one breaker? Can you not protect 1.5mm2 ref method 100 wiring with a 16A breaker? The electrician quote to "mend" this is £205 inc VAT. Ta. And finally, from the electrician... 6242Y PVC/PVC COPPER CABLE is rated at approx 13amps it is therefore good practice to downrate the mcbs from 16a to 10a to protect the cable By replacing the mcbs from B type to C type this will reduce the risk of nuisance tripping when the heaters click on and off at full load It is poor electrical practice to have more than 1 circuit fed from 1 mcb to multiple circuits especially if not in the same location , therefore with a spare way on the board the circuit can be successfully split |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 11:27, Robin wrote:
On 01/06/2021 09:32, Grumps wrote: On 29/05/2021 13:21, John Rumm wrote: On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. I have the full report now. All circuits have been deemed to be reference method 100. The 5 heaters are on 1.5mm2 cable with 16A MCB. Just for clarity, is it 4 MCBs for 5 heaters? The failures are listed as: 3x 1.5mm cable in a 6A breaker (these are lights and smoke detectors). Incorrect breaker sizes for heater circuits. Recommended solution: Downgrade MCBs to 10A C type for inrush protection of 1.5mm cables. Split the doubled up 6A circuit. So my quick questions a Are you not allowed to have 3 circuits in one breaker? Assuming the MCB is rated to take 3 x 1.5mm cables (and I can't think why it wouldn't be) I wonder if the argument is that there is insufficient resilience (Reg 314's "314.1 Every installation shall be divided into circuits, as necessary, to: (i) avoid danger and minimize inconvenience in the event of a fault..."). Which lights are on that MCB and which on separate circuits? Can you not protect 1.5mm2 ref method 100 wiring with a 16A breaker? I wonder if that "Method 100" will become a typo for "Method 101" in response to questions :( Well spotted Robin. It has to be method 101! -- Adam |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 18:29, ARW wrote:
On 01/06/2021 11:27, Robin wrote: On 01/06/2021 09:32, Grumps wrote: On 29/05/2021 13:21, John Rumm wrote: On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. I have the full report now. All circuits have been deemed to be reference method 100. The 5 heaters are on 1.5mm2 cable with 16A MCB. Just for clarity, is it 4 MCBs for 5 heaters? The failures are listed as: 3x 1.5mm cable in a 6A breaker (these are lights and smoke detectors). Incorrect breaker sizes for heater circuits. Recommended solution: Downgrade MCBs to 10A C type for inrush protection of 1.5mm cables. Split the doubled up 6A circuit. So my quick questions a Are you not allowed to have 3 circuits in one breaker? Assuming the MCB is rated to take 3 x 1.5mm cables (and I can't think why it wouldn't be) I wonder if the argument is that there is insufficient resilience (Reg 314's "314.1 Every installation shall be divided into circuits, as necessary, to: (i) avoid danger and minimize inconvenience in the event of a fault..."). Which lights are on that MCB and which on separate circuits? Can you not protect 1.5mm2 ref method 100 wiring with a 16A breaker? I wonder if that "Method 100" will become a typo for "Method 101" in response to questions :( Well spotted Robin. It has to be method 101! I wouldn't mind if it was written 101 on the report, but he wrote 100. |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 13:49, Grumps wrote:
On 01/06/2021 09:32, Grumps wrote: On 29/05/2021 13:21, John Rumm wrote: On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. I have the full report now. All circuits have been deemed to be reference method 100. The 5 heaters are on 1.5mm2 cable with 16A MCB. The failures are listed as: 3x 1.5mm cable in a 6A breaker (these are lights and smoke detectors). Incorrect breaker sizes for heater circuits. Recommended solution: Downgrade MCBs to 10A C type for inrush protection of 1.5mm cables. Split the doubled up 6A circuit. So my quick questions a Are you not allowed to have 3 circuits in one breaker? Can you not protect 1.5mm2 ref method 100 wiring with a 16A breaker? The electrician quote to "mend" this is £205 inc VAT. Ta. And finally, from the electrician... 6242Y PVC/PVC COPPER CABLE is rated at approx 13amps it is therefore good practice to downrate the mcbs from 16a to 10a to protect the cable By replacing the mcbs from B type to C type this will reduce the risk of nuisance tripping when the heaters click on and off at full load Your electrician meant (assumption) to say 1.5mm 6242Y cables is rated at 13A using installation method 101. The CCC of 1.5mm using method 100 is 16A. I can see why he has flagged it but there is nothing unsafe as long as the end load only consists of a 13 fused spur. So yes it is good practice to downrate the MCB if there is a chance someone uneducated might alter the circuit. It's probably better to get the MCBs swapped than have C3's or comments on your EICR. Note that the OSG does not give a guide for a 1.5mm 16A 101 installation method radial circuit as it assumes a terminal load of 16A. -- Adam |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 09:32, Grumps wrote:
On 29/05/2021 13:21, John Rumm wrote: On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. I have the full report now. All circuits have been deemed to be reference method 100. ok might be true... The 5 heaters are on 1.5mm2 cable with 16A MCB. So 1.5mm^2 should be fine (so long as they have a cable each, and not one shared between the lot :-) The failures are listed as: 3x 1.5mm cable in a 6A breaker (these are lights and smoke detectors). Incorrect breaker sizes for heater circuits. Recommended solution: Downgrade MCBs to 10A C type for inrush protection of 1.5mm cables. No sure what that is that supposed to mean? You don't size cables for inrush current anyway. You might choose a MCB type to allow for loads with excess inrush. (what kind of heaters are they?) Split the doubled up 6A circuit. So my quick questions a Are you not allowed to have 3 circuits in one breaker? You don't have three circuits on one breaker, you have just one radial circuit that happens to have two branches at the origin. Nothing wrong with that IMHO. Can you not protect 1.5mm2 ref method 100 wiring with a 16A breaker? Can't see why not. The electrician quote to "mend" this is £205 inc VAT. Ta. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 18:33, Grumps wrote:
On 01/06/2021 18:29, ARW wrote: On 01/06/2021 11:27, Robin wrote: On 01/06/2021 09:32, Grumps wrote: On 29/05/2021 13:21, John Rumm wrote: On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. I have the full report now. All circuits have been deemed to be reference method 100. The 5 heaters are on 1.5mm2 cable with 16A MCB. Just for clarity, is it 4 MCBs for 5 heaters? The failures are listed as: 3x 1.5mm cable in a 6A breaker (these are lights and smoke detectors). Incorrect breaker sizes for heater circuits. Recommended solution: Downgrade MCBs to 10A C type for inrush protection of 1.5mm cables. Split the doubled up 6A circuit. So my quick questions a Are you not allowed to have 3 circuits in one breaker? Assuming the MCB is rated to take 3 x 1.5mm cables (and I can't think why it wouldn't be) I wonder if the argument is that there is insufficient resilience (Reg 314's "314.1 Every installation shall be divided into circuits, as necessary, to: (i) avoid danger and minimize inconvenience in the event of a fault..."). Which lights are on that MCB and which on separate circuits? Can you not protect 1.5mm2 ref method 100 wiring with a 16A breaker? I wonder if that "Method 100" will become a typo for "Method 101" in response to questions :( Well spotted Robin. It has to be method 101! I wouldn't mind if it was written 101 on the report, but he wrote 100. Even at 101, I still can't see a problem if the FCU has a 13A fuse, and there is a single hardwired appliance... As it's hardwired it should only be changed by someone with a clue, that is not going to try and stick a 4kW heater on it. Even if they did, the fuse would save the day. The 16A MCB will more than adequately provide fault protection for the cable unless its ridiculously long. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 18:38, ARW wrote:
On 01/06/2021 13:49, Grumps wrote: On 01/06/2021 09:32, Grumps wrote: On 29/05/2021 13:21, John Rumm wrote: On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. I have the full report now. All circuits have been deemed to be reference method 100. The 5 heaters are on 1.5mm2 cable with 16A MCB. The failures are listed as: 3x 1.5mm cable in a 6A breaker (these are lights and smoke detectors). Incorrect breaker sizes for heater circuits. Recommended solution: Downgrade MCBs to 10A C type for inrush protection of 1.5mm cables. Split the doubled up 6A circuit. So my quick questions a Are you not allowed to have 3 circuits in one breaker? Can you not protect 1.5mm2 ref method 100 wiring with a 16A breaker? The electrician quote to "mend" this is £205 inc VAT. Ta. And finally, from the electrician... 6242Y PVC/PVC COPPER CABLE is rated at approx 13amps it is therefore good practice to downrate the mcbs from 16a to 10a to protect the cable By replacing the mcbs from B type to C type this will reduce the risk of nuisance tripping when the heaters click on and off at full load Your electrician meant (assumption) to say 1.5mm 6242Y cables is rated at 13A using installation method 101. The CCC of 1.5mm using method 100 is 16A. Yup, either that or someone is going cross eyed looking at the table, or can't measure insulation depth. :-) I can see why he has flagged it but there is nothing unsafe as long as the end load only consists of a 13 fused spur. So yes it is good practice to downrate the MCB if there is a chance someone uneducated might alter the circuit. It's probably better to get the MCBs swapped than have C3's or comments on your EICR. Yup, from an engineering PoV, it's fine as it is, but from the pen pushing PoV it's less hassle to swap them. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 18:33, Grumps wrote:
On 01/06/2021 18:29, ARW wrote: On 01/06/2021 11:27, Robin wrote: Well spotted Robin. It has to be method 101! I wouldn't mind if it was written 101 on the report, but he wrote 100. Blame the secretary:-) We once got back a report that asked us to change the circuit designation from Lesbians bedroom to Leslie's bedroom. -- Adam |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 19:24, ARW wrote:
On 01/06/2021 18:33, Grumps wrote: On 01/06/2021 18:29, ARW wrote: On 01/06/2021 11:27, Robin wrote: Well spotted Robin. It has to be method 101! I wouldn't mind if it was written 101 on the report, but he wrote 100. Blame the secretary:-) We once got back a report that asked us to change the circuit designation from Lesbians bedroom to Leslie's bedroom. Which one was correct? |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 19:34, Grumps wrote:
On 01/06/2021 19:24, ARW wrote: On 01/06/2021 18:33, Grumps wrote: On 01/06/2021 18:29, ARW wrote: On 01/06/2021 11:27, Robin wrote: Well spotted Robin. It has to be method 101! I wouldn't mind if it was written 101 on the report, but he wrote 100. Blame the secretary:-) We once got back a report that asked us to change the circuit designation from Lesbians bedroom to Leslie's bedroom. Which one was correct? When questions were asked the secretary was "correct". Perks of being the MD's daughter IMHO. All the best with your 10A MCBs fella if you go for it to keep him quiet because it is method 101. If it's method 100 you are free to go with 16A MCBs :-) Cheers -- Adam |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 18:54, John Rumm wrote:
On 01/06/2021 09:32, Grumps wrote: On 29/05/2021 13:21, John Rumm wrote: On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. I have the full report now. All circuits have been deemed to be reference method 100. ok might be true... The 5 heaters are on 1.5mm2 cable with 16A MCB. So 1.5mm^2 should be fine (so long as they have a cable each, and not one shared between the lot :-) The failures are listed as: 3x 1.5mm cable in a 6A breaker (these are lights and smoke detectors). Incorrect breaker sizes for heater circuits. Recommended solution: Downgrade MCBs to 10A C type for inrush protection of 1.5mm cables. No sure what that is that supposed to mean? You don't size cables for inrush current anyway. You might choose a MCB type to allow for loads with excess inrush. (what kind of heaters are they?) They're Atlantic wall heaters. Don't know if that brand is common. I'd assume nothing special, mainly resistive and not a significant inrush. But what do I know! Split the doubled up 6A circuit. So my quick questions a Are you not allowed to have 3 circuits in one breaker? You don't have three circuits on one breaker, you have just one radial circuit that happens to have two branches at the origin. Nothing wrong with that IMHO. Can you not protect 1.5mm2 ref method 100 wiring with a 16A breaker? Can't see why not. The electrician quote to "mend" this is £205 inc VAT. Ta. Looks like the path of least hassle is to pay him his £205 ransom. |
EICR
On 01/06/2021 20:21, Grumps wrote:
On 01/06/2021 18:54, John Rumm wrote: On 01/06/2021 09:32, Grumps wrote: On 29/05/2021 13:21, John Rumm wrote: On 28/05/2021 17:22, Grumps wrote: Hi, I've just had an EICR performed on a property that I let. I wasn't present during the test and my tenant has reported the following back to me (I'm too impatient to wait for the full report which might not be with me until the end of next week). Apparently 4 16Amp MCBs need to be changed to 6Amp. Each MCB is connected to just one wall-mounted electric heater. The heaters are rated from 1500W to 2000W. The last time I had a look at the wiring (when I decorated some 4 years ago), I'm sure it was 2.5mm2 from the MCB to each heater's FCU. 2.5mm2 and 16A MCBs are a good combination, yes? Even 1.5mm2 should be good. Surely if I get the 16A breakers swapped to 6A then that won't be sufficient for a 2kW heater, and probably not even for the 1500W ones? What possible reason would the electrician suggest swapping to 6A MCBs? It seems like you will need to wait for the proper report since something does not add up here. I have the full report now. All circuits have been deemed to be reference method 100. ok might be true... The 5 heaters are on 1.5mm2 cable with 16A MCB. So 1.5mm^2 should be fine (so long as they have a cable each, and not one shared between the lot :-) The failures are listed as: 3x 1.5mm cable in a 6A breaker (these are lights and smoke detectors). Incorrect breaker sizes for heater circuits. Recommended solution: Downgrade MCBs to 10A C type for inrush protection of 1.5mm cables. No sure what that is that supposed to mean? You don't size cables for inrush current anyway. You might choose a MCB type to allow for loads with excess inrush. (what kind of heaters are they?) They're Atlantic wall heaters. Don't know if that brand is common. I'd assume nothing special, mainly resistive and not a significant inrush. But what do I know! Split the doubled up 6A circuit. So my quick questions a Are you not allowed to have 3 circuits in one breaker? You don't have three circuits on one breaker, you have just one radial circuit that happens to have two branches at the origin. Nothing wrong with that IMHO. Can you not protect 1.5mm2 ref method 100 wiring with a 16A breaker? Can't see why not. The electrician quote to "mend" this is £205 inc VAT. Ta. Looks like the path of least hassle is to pay him his £205 ransom. I am afraid it looks likely. Or set him up on a date with T i m 's daughter. -- Adam |
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