I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls
--

Mike

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:34:43 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 10:22:01 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

Depends on the size of the hole and the sharpness of the bit.

I've seen big Hilti cordless struggle getting a satellite cable through a wall when my £50 Screwfie Special breezed through.

Owain

It would initially be a hole big enough to get a couple of LAN cables
through. The quality of the bit factor I do understand.
I currently have a Lidl, non SDS, cordless drill and it really doesnt
like to struggle. It's also quite hard to get it to keep a grip on the
bits too.
--

Mike

Mike Halmarack wrote:

I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

Hatton garden sized holes or red rawl plug sized holes?

I have a couple of 10.2/12v drills, but I generally use m just for pilot
holes, or countersinking, or for screwdriving. I'd pick 18V hammer
drill or SDS for anything heavier, 14V might not be too far behind 18V
though.

makita now have an 80V battery SDS.

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 12:20:39 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Mike Halmarack wrote:

I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

Hatton garden sized holes or red rawl plug sized holes?

I have a couple of 10.2/12v drills, but I generally use m just for pilot
holes, or countersinking, or for screwdriving. I'd pick 18V hammer
drill or SDS for anything heavier, 14V might not be too far behind 18V
though.

I was thinking that if a manufacturer like Makita made 14v SDS
drills, there would be quite a good chance that they'd work to a
reasonable SDS level, if there is such a level.

makita now have an 80V battery SDS.

Maybe in time these will be considered puny too.


--

Mike

I've got a Makita 18V SDS drill and it's very good - although I've only used it for drilling 6.5mm holes in very hard brick and concrete, which it does well.

Mike Halmarack wrote:

I was thinking that if a manufacturer like Makita made 14v SDS
drills, there would be quite a good chance that they'd work to a
reasonable SDS level

They did (discontinued?) make an 14.4V SDS model # BHR162

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:44:53 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I've got a Makita 18V SDS drill and it's very good - although I've only used it for drilling 6.5mm holes in very hard brick and concrete, which it does well.

Very clearly put. But not encouraging in terms of the viability of the
14v version.
--

Mike

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 14:11:06 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:


Mike Halmarack wrote:

I was thinking that if a manufacturer like Makita made 14v SDS
drills, there would be quite a good chance that they'd work to a
reasonable SDS level

They did (discontinued?) make an 14.4V SDS model # BHR162

That's the one I saw on eBay.
--

Mike

Andy Burns wrote:
Mike Halmarack wrote:

I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

Hatton garden sized holes or red rawl plug sized holes?

I have a couple of 10.2/12v drills, but I generally use m just for pilot
holes, or countersinking, or for screwdriving. I'd pick 18V hammer
drill or SDS for anything heavier, 14V might not be too far behind 18V
though.

makita now have an 80V battery SDS.

Are you sure that's not a misheard 18v one?

--
Chris Green
·

Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:44:53 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I've got a Makita 18V SDS drill and it's very good - although I've only
used it for drilling 6.5mm holes in very hard brick and concrete, which
it does well.

Very clearly put. But not encouraging in terms of the viability of the
14v version.

What we're concerned about here is the power delivered. P=V^2/R and so the
power increases with the square of the voltage. However what isn't
discussed is decreases in the resistance which will also contribute. An
improved battery with a lower internal resistance can deliver more power,
even at the same voltage. This is why a lithium ion drill is better than a
NiMH of the same voltage - the NiMH has a higher resistance and so can't
deliver as much current.

However it's hard to beat a square law, so I would be looking at trying to
get the higher voltage.

Theo

Chris Green wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

makita now have an 80V battery SDS.

Are you sure that's not a misheard 18v one?

No, 2x 40V XGT batteries

https://youtu.be/kZY40x1sI-Q

On 21/04/2021 10:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

I've been able to understand the widely held assumption that there's a
direct relationship between the voltage of a tool and its power output.

Bill

On 21/04/2021 10:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls


I've never been able to understand the widely held assumption that
there's a direct relationship between the voltage of a tool and its
power output.

Bill

In article ,
williamwright wrote:
On 21/04/2021 10:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

I've been able to understand the widely held assumption that there's a
direct relationship between the voltage of a tool and its power output.

Like for like, I'd say it's cheaper to make a higher voltage drill. Stock
cell sizes and thinner cables.

--
*If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:22:00 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote:

I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes me
wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

The 12 volt Milwaukee SDS is excellent. I've had one at work, and it
compares well with the 18 volt version which we also have, but the
battery life is less, obviously.

williamwright wrote:
On 21/04/2021 10:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls


I've never been able to understand the widely held assumption that
there's a direct relationship between the voltage of a tool and its
power output.

Generally they use the same size cells whatever the voltage so, twice
the voltage is twice the power given the same current capability. I
agree though that, in principle, it's not true that more volts means
more power.

--
Chris Green
·

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:27:15 -0500, Alan wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 10:22:00 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote:

I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes me
wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

The 12 volt Milwaukee SDS is excellent. I've had one at work, and it
compares well with the 18 volt version which we also have, but the
battery life is less, obviously.

One attractive feature of the Makita 14V sds drill for me, is that I
already have 2 14V batteries and charger.
--

Mike

On 21/04/2021 14:15, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:44:53 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I've got a Makita 18V SDS drill and it's very good - although I've only used it for drilling 6.5mm holes in very hard brick and concrete, which it does well.

Very clearly put. But not encouraging in terms of the viability of the
14v version.

It amazes me that people do not understand that power - volts *times*
amps and with the availability of high capacity LIPO cells the actual
voltage is supremely irrelevant

14.4V is 12 nickel cells - 18v is 15.. in reality a decent cordless will
be 4 cells LIPO or about 14.8v, or maybe 5 cells at 17.1v It really
makes no ****ing difference.

--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

On 21/04/2021 15:22, Theo wrote:
Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 05:44:53 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I've got a Makita 18V SDS drill and it's very good - although I've only
used it for drilling 6.5mm holes in very hard brick and concrete, which
it does well.

Very clearly put. But not encouraging in terms of the viability of the
14v version.

What we're concerned about here is the power delivered. P=V^2/R and so the
power increases with the square of the voltage.

It would if a motor was a resistor. Since it isn't you are talking total
crap

However what isn't
discussed is decreases in the resistance which will also contribute. An
improved battery with a lower internal resistance can deliver more power,
even at the same voltage. This is why a lithium ion drill is better than a
NiMH of the same voltage - the NiMH has a higher resistance and so can't
deliver as much current.

More total crap

However it's hard to beat a square law, so I would be looking at trying to
get the higher voltage.


And a final piece of total crap just to get the bullseye
Theo



--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 21/04/2021 10:52, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:34:43 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 10:22:01 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

Depends on the size of the hole and the sharpness of the bit.

I've seen big Hilti cordless struggle getting a satellite cable through a wall when my £50 Screwfie Special breezed through.

Owain

It would initially be a hole big enough to get a couple of LAN cables
through. The quality of the bit factor I do understand.
I currently have a Lidl, non SDS, cordless drill and it really doesnt
like to struggle. It's also quite hard to get it to keep a grip on the
bits too.


Do you have a local hire shop where you could acquire a mains
SDS drill for a day (or half a day) ?.

On 21/04/2021 10:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:

I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

I have used a 14.4V Makita combi, and as you might expect, it's not
quite as powerful as the 18V, but certainly adequate for most drill
driving and carpentry tasks. It will also stick wall plug sized holes
into reasonably solid masonry easily enough.

I would expect the SDS version to do so with ease. The are it might
struggle with is larger hole saws or auger bits.

The trend seems to be away from the mid voltage batteries these days -
with more focus on the small and light 10.8V, and the 18V ranges (and
the multiple 18V ones for big tools)

I noted that the openreach wiremen seem to get given Makita 10.8 SDS kit
for sticking holes through walls these days... (the one who installed my
FTTP came equipped with such and no charged batteries - fortunately I
was able to offer him a range of alternatives!)





--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 21/04/2021 15:46, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

makita now have an 80V battery SDS.

Are you sure that's not a misheard 18v one?

No, 2x 40V XGT batteries

AKA 2 x 36V

Makita seem to have given into the trend of using peak charged voltage
to describe their cells on the new high voltage ranges (much the same as
some makers call 18V cells 20V)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 21/04/2021 18:37, Andrew wrote:
On 21/04/2021 10:52, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:34:43 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 10:22:01 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

Depends on the size of the hole and the sharpness of the bit.

I've seen big Hilti cordless struggle getting a satellite cable
through a wall when my £50 Screwfie Special breezed through.

Owain

Â* It would initially be a hole big enough to get a couple of LAN cables
through. The quality of the bit factor I do understand.
I currently have a Lidl, non SDS, cordless drill and it really doesnt
like to struggle. It's also quite hard to get it to keep a grip on the
bits too.


Do you have a local hire shop where you could acquire a mains
SDS drill for a day (or half a day) ?.

It's less than 50 quid to buy one. I did that, as I wanted a drill with
a safety clutch for core drilling. It has come in useful a number of
times for core drilling, normal drilling in brick and chiselling.

So far, just for core drilling, it has done at least 2 holes in the
bathroom (moving soil pipe and adding extractor fan; two in the second
toilet (same things); two in the kitchen (boiler flue and tumble dryer
exhaust) - all 125mm. 50mm holes for two washbasin drains, one shower
drain, sink drain, waste disposal drain, washing machine drain,
dishwasher drain. three 80mm holes for underfloor ventilation ducting.

It has also done one 170mm chain drilled and chiselled hole for the
cooker hood vent. Numerous normally drilled holes. And has chiselled out
for backboxes and the like.

Buying has cost a fraction of what the repeated hire costs would have been.

Okay, it is not a high quality machine (Titan from Screwfix), but it's
good enough for occasional DIY use and, at that price, if it failed
tomorrow, it'd still have been a good investment for what it has done.

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 01:07:30 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/04/2021 18:37, Andrew wrote:
On 21/04/2021 10:52, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:34:43 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 10:22:01 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

Depends on the size of the hole and the sharpness of the bit.

I've seen big Hilti cordless struggle getting a satellite cable
through a wall when my £50 Screwfie Special breezed through.

Owain

* It would initially be a hole big enough to get a couple of LAN cables
through. The quality of the bit factor I do understand.
I currently have a Lidl, non SDS, cordless drill and it really doesnt
like to struggle. It's also quite hard to get it to keep a grip on the
bits too.


Do you have a local hire shop where you could acquire a mains
SDS drill for a day (or half a day) ?.

It's less than 50 quid to buy one. I did that, as I wanted a drill with
a safety clutch for core drilling. It has come in useful a number of
times for core drilling, normal drilling in brick and chiselling.

So far, just for core drilling, it has done at least 2 holes in the
bathroom (moving soil pipe and adding extractor fan; two in the second
toilet (same things); two in the kitchen (boiler flue and tumble dryer
exhaust) - all 125mm. 50mm holes for two washbasin drains, one shower
drain, sink drain, waste disposal drain, washing machine drain,
dishwasher drain. three 80mm holes for underfloor ventilation ducting.

It has also done one 170mm chain drilled and chiselled hole for the
cooker hood vent. Numerous normally drilled holes. And has chiselled out
for backboxes and the like.

Buying has cost a fraction of what the repeated hire costs would have been.

Okay, it is not a high quality machine (Titan from Screwfix), but it's
good enough for occasional DIY use and, at that price, if it failed
tomorrow, it'd still have been a good investment for what it has done.

Great thread, very informative but I didn't feel at all confident that
the used 14V Makita from eBay would do the job. So I clambered down
the price range and bought the Titan from Screwfix as described in
this post by Steve Walker. If it only lives long enough to do a couple
of jobs it's not much more expensive than a hire. And Screwfix deliver
to my door.
Not only that but the reviews on Screwfix are so positive, though some
might suggest too positive.
--

Mike

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 10:22:01 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

I know this has been answered by purchase of a Titan.

I have a now very old Bosch 12V drill. And it has been absolutely fine in terms of power.

But if buying a drill today, I wouldn't be very tempted by a 14.4 V cordless. I think I'd either go for a very cheap one such as Aldi/Lidl. Or a decent 18V one. Or live with a mains drill.

(I do now have an 18V Makita so the choice would be "Which model Makita?" - but if you haven't got one, it is a high cost of entry.)

Using a higher current obviously.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
...
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls
--

Mike

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 02:08:42 -0700 (PDT), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 10:22:01 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls

I know this has been answered by purchase of a Titan.

I have a now very old Bosch 12V drill. And it has been absolutely fine in terms of power.

But if buying a drill today, I wouldn't be very tempted by a 14.4 V cordless. I think I'd either go for a very cheap one such as Aldi/Lidl. Or a decent 18V one. Or live with a mains drill.

(I do now have an 18V Makita so the choice would be "Which model Makita?" - but if you haven't got one, it is a high cost of entry.)

I'm definitely going to go for 18V Makita in future where frequently
used tools are concerned. Where the heavier duty SDS Drill Is
concerned I'm having difficulty coming up with 2 jobs for it right
now.
--

Mike

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 10:16:54 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote:

Using a higher current obviously.
Brian
Succinctly put. :-)
--

Mike

In article ,
Mike Halmarack wrote:
I'm definitely going to go for 18V Makita in future where frequently
used tools are concerned. Where the heavier duty SDS Drill Is
concerned I'm having difficulty coming up with 2 jobs for it right
now.

Quite. For normal DIY it would be difficult to justify the cost of a
cordless SDS (if you already have a mains one)

--
*Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 09:35:25 +0100, Mike Halmarack wrote:

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 01:07:30 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 21/04/2021 18:37, Andrew wrote:
On 21/04/2021 10:52, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 02:34:43 -0700 (PDT), Owain Lastname
wrote:

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 10:22:01 UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which
makes me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes
through walls

Depends on the size of the hole and the sharpness of the bit.

I've seen big Hilti cordless struggle getting a satellite cable
through a wall when my £50 Screwfie Special breezed through.

Owain

Â* It would initially be a hole big enough to get a couple of LAN
Â* cables
through. The quality of the bit factor I do understand.
I currently have a Lidl, non SDS, cordless drill and it really doesnt
like to struggle. It's also quite hard to get it to keep a grip on
the bits too.


Do you have a local hire shop where you could acquire a mains SDS
drill for a day (or half a day) ?.

It's less than 50 quid to buy one. I did that, as I wanted a drill with
a safety clutch for core drilling. It has come in useful a number of
times for core drilling, normal drilling in brick and chiselling.

So far, just for core drilling, it has done at least 2 holes in the
bathroom (moving soil pipe and adding extractor fan; two in the second
toilet (same things); two in the kitchen (boiler flue and tumble dryer
exhaust) - all 125mm. 50mm holes for two washbasin drains, one shower
drain, sink drain, waste disposal drain, washing machine drain,
dishwasher drain. three 80mm holes for underfloor ventilation ducting.

It has also done one 170mm chain drilled and chiselled hole for the
cooker hood vent. Numerous normally drilled holes. And has chiselled out
for backboxes and the like.

Buying has cost a fraction of what the repeated hire costs would have
been.

Okay, it is not a high quality machine (Titan from Screwfix), but it's
good enough for occasional DIY use and, at that price, if it failed
tomorrow, it'd still have been a good investment for what it has done.

Great thread, very informative but I didn't feel at all confident that
the used 14V Makita from eBay would do the job. So I clambered down the
price range and bought the Titan from Screwfix as described in this post
by Steve Walker. If it only lives long enough to do a couple of jobs
it's not much more expensive than a hire. And Screwfix deliver to my
door.
Not only that but the reviews on Screwfix are so positive, though some
might suggest too positive.

Just got to the ends of this thread and went and looked at my Makita to
confirm that it is 18V, which it is.
I originally bought a Site drill set from Screwfix which is rebaged Makita,
then added an impact driver body and a hammer drill body over time along
with a third battery. Ni-Cd.

Must be well over 10 years old now and still going strong.

{wanders down to man cave}

I also have a dinky little SDS drill from Lidl (battery has 2013 date) and
is marked 18V.
http://bateriasparkside.com/en/parkside-battery-pabs-20-li-a1-pabh
This manages small to medium SDS activities and I have a big mains one for
tough jobs.

Late to the thread so probably not much help.


Cheers


Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 10:22:01 AM UTC+1, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I see that some cordless sds drills have massive 24V/36V, which makes
me wonder how a 14V model would cope with drilling holes through walls
--

Mike

The trend has generally to up the voltage on power tools. I do not know about battery SDS drills preferring my mains powered type, but when I went up from 12V to 18V for my hammer action drill it was quite a difference in performance I suppose some of the difference might have been due to changing from a DIY Bosch to a professional DeWalt as well as changing from NiCads to LiOn but there was a noticeable difference in drilling ability most of which I put down to the increased voltage.

Richard