I thought I should finally make an effort to change from an EDF standard
variable dual-fuel tariff to a fixed EDF one. I assumed it would not be
simple (as far as I could see the tariffs I was interested in weren't
available through a Switch website, and they appeared to be identical on
the EDF website but had different names).

First stage was to set up an online account ("MyAccount") with EDF.
Pretty straightforward. Then I asked for a new tariff. There were a few
filters to get through - I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay quarterly by
cash/cheque. I was offered only *one* tariff, and that one included a
servicing agreement - and it appeared to be a direct debit one! I wasn't
interested in it. No matter what I tried I could not get to the tariff I
was interested in. So I tried clicking on "live chat" and found it
wasn't available!

I then tried several different routes on the edfenergy pages, but they
all ended up at the same place with that one tariff. Next was the 0333
number on the letter I'd been sent warning me of a price rise on 1
April. After umpteen selections of "Press 1" etc, I was told they were
very busy and I would have to wait at least 10 minutes. After 12 minutes
the muzak just stopped and the phone went silent. I held on for another
5 minutes then gave up. I next tried a different 0333 number, apparently
specifically for changing tariffs, but that ended up the same as the
first one.

I then tried edfenergy.com/livechat, expecting it to have the same
unavailability as the previous live chat attempt, but no, I got through.
I find live chat rather slow, but eventually found the agent didn't know
why the two tariffs were the same, and why I'd only been offered one
different one. I was told I'd be sent an email with the explanation.

Before I started this whole process I was convinced it would be an
exercise in insanity, and I wasn't disappointed! According to
"Trustpilot" (who I've previously had issues with and reported to the
Information Commissioner's Office) EDF are rated "excellent" with 4.5
stars. I can only wonder what the other energy companies are like...

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman wrote:

I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay quarterly by cash/cheque.

Doubt you'll find one on offer.

On 25/03/2021 16:20, Jeff Layman wrote:

First stage was to set up an online account ("MyAccount") with EDF.
Pretty straightforward. Then I asked for a new tariff. There were a few
filters to get through - I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay quarterly by
cash/cheque.

That's probably your main problem. Most of the best deals are monthly DD
only.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 25/03/2021 16:20, Jeff Layman wrote:
I thought I should finally make an effort to change from an EDF standard
variable dual-fuel tariff to a fixed EDF one. I assumed it would not be
simple (as far as I could see the tariffs I was interested in weren't
available through a Switch website, and they appeared to be identical on
the EDF website but had different names).

First stage was to set up an online account ("MyAccount") with EDF.
Pretty straightforward. Then I asked for a new tariff. There were a few
filters to get through - I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay quarterly by
cash/cheque. I was offered only *one* tariff, and that one included a
servicing agreement - and it appeared to be a direct debit one! I wasn't
interested in it. No matter what I tried I could not get to the tariff I
was interested in. So I tried clicking on "live chat" and found it
wasn't available!


It is a long time since I paid a utility bill at a bank using a cheque.

These days nearly all suppliers want paid monthly by direct debit. One
difference is how often they change the amount that they want to take.
It is poaaible to ring your bank and ask them to reclaim a direct debit.
I did once do this. The bank were a little reluntant but they did do as
asked.

I only use electricity and have been using Symbio since learning about
them on Newsnet.


--
Michael Chare

On 25/03/2021 16:55, alan_m wrote:
On 25/03/2021 16:20, Jeff Layman wrote:

First stage was to set up an online account ("MyAccount") with EDF.
Pretty straightforward. Then I asked for a new tariff. There were a
few filters to get through - I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay
quarterly by cash/cheque.

That's probably your main problem. Most of the best deals are monthly DD
only.




I've just changed my preference on the cheap energy club from monthly DD
to cash/cheque and all I was offered was fixed price deals 33% to 40%
more than I'm currently paying for a fixed price deal that started
around 30 days ago.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 16:20:48 +0000, Jeff Layman wrote:

snip tale of unsurprising woe

That's what happens when everyone is intent on getting the lowest possible
price.

On 25/03/2021 17:15, Scion wrote:
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 16:20:48 +0000, Jeff Layman wrote:

snip tale of unsurprising woe

That's what happens when everyone is intent on getting the lowest possible
price.



Changing supplier is easy and it appears that the worst customer service
is often from the large suppliers that change the most. This tale of woe
possibly has more to do with the method of payment that is not available
on the better tariffs. Industry wide, the energy companies really don't
want customers who pay by cheque or cash and it is more likely they
don't want customers who are unwilling to manage their account on-line.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote:
On 25/03/2021 17:15, Scion wrote:
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 16:20:48 +0000, Jeff Layman wrote:

snip tale of unsurprising woe

That's what happens when everyone is intent on getting the lowest possible
price.



Changing supplier is easy and it appears that the worst customer service
is often from the large suppliers that change the most. This tale of woe
possibly has more to do with the method of payment that is not available
on the better tariffs. Industry wide, the energy companies really don't
want customers who pay by cheque or cash and it is more likely they
don't want customers who are unwilling to manage their account on-line.

.... and they're not "energy companies" they're just manipulators of
paperwork between us (the consumers) and the actual businesses which
generate the electricity. Wholly pointless except as a money making
exercise for them.

--
Chris Green
·

On 25/03/2021 16:57, Michael Chare wrote:
On 25/03/2021 16:20, Jeff Layman wrote:
I thought I should finally make an effort to change from an EDF standard
variable dual-fuel tariff to a fixed EDF one. I assumed it would not be
simple (as far as I could see the tariffs I was interested in weren't
available through a Switch website, and they appeared to be identical on
the EDF website but had different names).

First stage was to set up an online account ("MyAccount") with EDF.
Pretty straightforward. Then I asked for a new tariff. There were a few
filters to get through - I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay quarterly by
cash/cheque. I was offered only *one* tariff, and that one included a
servicing agreement - and it appeared to be a direct debit one! I wasn't
interested in it. No matter what I tried I could not get to the tariff I
was interested in. So I tried clicking on "live chat" and found it
wasn't available!


It is a long time since I paid a utility bill at a bank using a cheque.

Nor do I. For some reason the energy companies still call it "paying by
cheque or cash", but I've been paying by BACS for years.

These days nearly all suppliers want paid monthly by direct debit. One
difference is how often they change the amount that they want to take.
It is poaaible to ring your bank and ask them to reclaim a direct debit.
I did once do this. The bank were a little reluntant but they did do as
asked.

Of course - it's damned if you do and damned if you don't:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56413991:

"Customers who pay too much to their energy supplier through their
monthly direct debit payment should receive automatic annual refunds,
Ofgem says.

For years, customers have complained that energy firms can hoard
thousands of pounds of overpayments and would only return it on request.

Now the regulator has proposed balances are cleared once a year,
claiming suppliers held a surplus of £1.4bn.

It said some were using the money for "unsustainable business practices".

It's a fiddle:
"On behalf of suppliers, Energy UK said: "Paying by direct debit helps
customers budget by ensuring they pay a regular amount each month even
though their actual energy usage varies significantly over the year."

I'll happily do that by Standing Order, so I remain in control - not the
fat cats running the energy companies. Or they can fit a smart meter and
bill me for what I've actually used, not an unrealistically high fixed
amount.

I only use electricity and have been using Symbio since learning about
them on Newsnet.

Most of my energy expense is gas for central heating.

--

Jeff

Tim Streater wrote:
On 25 Mar 2021 at 17:55:32 GMT, Chris Green wrote:

alan_m wrote:
On 25/03/2021 17:15, Scion wrote:
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 16:20:48 +0000, Jeff Layman wrote:

snip tale of unsurprising woe

That's what happens when everyone is intent on getting the lowest possible
price.



Changing supplier is easy and it appears that the worst customer service
is often from the large suppliers that change the most. This tale of woe
possibly has more to do with the method of payment that is not available
on the better tariffs. Industry wide, the energy companies really don't
want customers who pay by cheque or cash and it is more likely they
don't want customers who are unwilling to manage their account on-line.

... and they're not "energy companies" they're just manipulators of
paperwork between us (the consumers) and the actual businesses which
generate the electricity. Wholly pointless except as a money making
exercise for them.

Not really pointless. Agreed that for the most part they are just billing
organisations. The volts are actually supplied by the likes of UK Power
Networks, not by such as npower etc.

But the billing side is a largish chunk of the cost. Why shouldn't there be a
mechanism to reduce the cost of that part? It's no different to no longer
queuing up in a shop to wait your turn for some klod to take a tin of cocoa
off the shelf behind him and hand it to you. You may as well do that yourself
while you wait. And so the self-service idea takes off: cheaper for you,
quicker, and thus better for the environment.

And we no longer sit in the car while some geezer fills up our tank. What did
your last servant die of anyway?

Supply of volts and stinking gas is no different: cost reduced by automated
payments. It's also why they're after us to put smart meters in.

None of which argument tells me why there's a pointless 'middleman'
making a profit for no gain to anyone except themselves.

I quite agree that paying efficiently by DD makes sense but that isn't
a reason for the extra 'layer' of paper pushers (or DD pushers)
between me and the actual producers of electricity.

--
Chris Green
·

On 25/03/2021 16:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:

I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay quarterly by cash/cheque.

Doubt you'll find one on offer.

https://my.edfenergy.com/gas-electricity/tariff-information-labels/

Enter any valid postcode. Select cash/cheque as payment method, then
click on "Apply filters", Then Cash/cheque Whole Amount (Quarterly).

Quite a few tariffs will appear (eventually - it's a slow website).

--

Jeff

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 25/03/2021 16:20, Jeff Layman wrote:

First stage was to set up an online account ("MyAccount") with EDF.
Pretty straightforward. Then I asked for a new tariff. There were a
few filters to get through - I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay
quarterly by cash/cheque.

That's probably your main problem. Most of the best deals are monthly DD
only.

Yes. No real point for the consumer with quarterly given the very low
interest rates. But cash flow matters to the companies.

Most of the best deals seem to be variable monthly DD.

--
*Does fuzzy logic tickle? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 18:28:57 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 25/03/2021 16:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:

I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay quarterly by cash/cheque.

Doubt you'll find one on offer.

https://my.edfenergy.com/gas-electricity/tariff-information-labels/

Enter any valid postcode. Select cash/cheque as payment method, then
click on "Apply filters", Then Cash/cheque Whole Amount (Quarterly).

Quite a few tariffs will appear (eventually - it's a slow website).

Why would anyone want to use cash or cheque? If you have a bank
account - as you obviously do - paying by direct debit is more
convenient, may give you a better tariff and is protected by the
direct debit guarantee if anything goes wrong..

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 18:06:31 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 25/03/2021 16:57, Michael Chare wrote:
On 25/03/2021 16:20, Jeff Layman wrote:
I thought I should finally make an effort to change from an EDF standard
variable dual-fuel tariff to a fixed EDF one. I assumed it would not be
simple (as far as I could see the tariffs I was interested in weren't
available through a Switch website, and they appeared to be identical on
the EDF website but had different names).

First stage was to set up an online account ("MyAccount") with EDF.
Pretty straightforward. Then I asked for a new tariff. There were a few
filters to get through - I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay quarterly by
cash/cheque. I was offered only *one* tariff, and that one included a
servicing agreement - and it appeared to be a direct debit one! I wasn't
interested in it. No matter what I tried I could not get to the tariff I
was interested in. So I tried clicking on "live chat" and found it
wasn't available!

It is a long time since I paid a utility bill at a bank using a cheque.

Nor do I. For some reason the energy companies still call it "paying by
cheque or cash", but I've been paying by BACS for years.

These days nearly all suppliers want paid monthly by direct debit. One
difference is how often they change the amount that they want to take.
It is poaaible to ring your bank and ask them to reclaim a direct debit.
I did once do this. The bank were a little reluntant but they did do as
asked.

Why a monthly direct debit? Mine produces a bill every three months
and collects the sum due by direct debit.

On 25/03/2021 16:20, Jeff Layman wrote:
I assumed it would not be simple

So you were proved correct. d-i-y, for sure.

Move on - and the less restrictions you apply, the better the deal
you'll find on any of the numerous energy-switching sites.

PA

On 25/03/2021 18:28, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 25/03/2021 16:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:

I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay quarterly by cash/cheque.

Doubt you'll find one on offer.

https://my.edfenergy.com/gas-electricity/tariff-information-labels/

Enter any valid postcode. Select cash/cheque as payment method, then
click on "Apply filters", Then Cash/cheque Whole Amount (Quarterly).

Quite a few tariffs will appear (eventually - it's a slow website).


But by paying by cheque the cost per unit (kWh) is 10% to 11% higher
compared with paying by monthly DD. This is for both electricity and gas.

The daily standing charge is around 20p whereas I'm paying around 15p
per day with my supplier. I'm also paying less per unit with my supplier
than the EDF monthly DD fixed plan.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Jeff Layman wrote:

https://my.edfenergy.com/gas-electricity/tariff-information-labels/

Enter any valid postcode. Select cash/cheque as payment method, then
click on "Apply filters", Then Cash/cheque Whole Amount (Quarterly).

Quite a few tariffs will appear (eventually - it's a slow website).

So slow I'd have given-up and gone elsewhere

only a 1.5p/kWh 'sting' for quarterly cheque vs monthly direct debit.

Tim Streater wrote:

I quite agree that paying efficiently by DD makes sense but that isn't
a reason for the extra 'layer' of paper pushers (or DD pushers)
between me and the actual producers of electricity.

Don't be silly. If these middlemen didn't do it, then the actual power
companies would have to do it. As it is, they just sell a few large chunks of
power to the middlemen, who set up tarriffs which they offer to us. The
middlemen also insulate us from risk due to changes in the price *they* have
to pay to get power. It's a form of forward buying, similar to forward selling
by coffee growers or other such producers, but I imagine you don't approve of
that either.

So how did it work before it was all done this way? It's not been
like this for all that long has it?

.... and anyway, why can't the suppliers do what the 'middlemen' do and
cut out their profit margin?

--
Chris Green
·

On 25/03/2021 18:45, Peter Able wrote:
On 25/03/2021 16:20, Jeff Layman wrote:
I assumed it would not be simple

So you were proved correct.Â* d-i-y, for sure.

Move on - and the less restrictions you apply, the better the deal
you'll find on any of the numerous energy-switching sites.

PA

Time I switched again too. I've always used the Which? service because I
(more or less) trust them and think they are a useful campaigning
organisation, but does anyone have other thoughts?

On 25/03/2021 18:41, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 18:28:57 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 25/03/2021 16:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:

I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay quarterly by cash/cheque.

Doubt you'll find one on offer.

https://my.edfenergy.com/gas-electricity/tariff-information-labels/

Enter any valid postcode. Select cash/cheque as payment method, then
click on "Apply filters", Then Cash/cheque Whole Amount (Quarterly).

Quite a few tariffs will appear (eventually - it's a slow website).

Why would anyone want to use cash or cheque? If you have a bank
account - as you obviously do - paying by direct debit is more
convenient, may give you a better tariff and is protected by the
direct debit guarantee if anything goes wrong..

The "direct debit guarantee" doesn't guarantee that they won't
overcharge you and use the surplus to maintain their cash flow. I prefer
quarterly in arrears, so I'm only paying for what I use. Of course, I
don't actually pay by cash or cheque, I pay by bank transfer online.
They don't give you the option of paying the quarterly charge by direct
debit (after telling you how much). (Credit card companies and BT manage
to do that.)

--
Max Demian

On 25/03/2021 20:43, Chris Green wrote:


So how did it work before it was all done this way? It's not been
like this for all that long has it?


Monopoly middleman charging what ever they dictated.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 25/03/2021 18:44, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 18:06:31 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:
On 25/03/2021 16:57, Michael Chare wrote:

These days nearly all suppliers want paid monthly by direct debit. One
difference is how often they change the amount that they want to take.
It is poaaible to ring your bank and ask them to reclaim a direct debit.
I did once do this. The bank were a little reluntant but they did do as
asked.

Why a monthly direct debit? Mine produces a bill every three months
and collects the sum due by direct debit.

Who does that? Did they offer that method or did you have to find out
for yourself? EDF and British Gas don't seem to offer that.

--
Max Demian

On 25/03/2021 21:44, newshound wrote:
On 25/03/2021 18:45, Peter Able wrote:
On 25/03/2021 16:20, Jeff Layman wrote:
I assumed it would not be simple

So you were proved correct.Â* d-i-y, for sure.

Move on - and the less restrictions you apply, the better the deal
you'll find on any of the numerous energy-switching sites.

PA

Time I switched again too. I've always used the Which? service because I
(more or less) trust them and think they are a useful campaigning
organisation, but does anyone have other thoughts?

Surely Which? recommends Octopus (according to the adverts) - much more
expensive when I checked their tariffs this year.




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:34:13 +0000, Max Demian
wrote:

On 25/03/2021 18:44, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 18:06:31 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:
On 25/03/2021 16:57, Michael Chare wrote:

These days nearly all suppliers want paid monthly by direct debit. One
difference is how often they change the amount that they want to take.
It is poaaible to ring your bank and ask them to reclaim a direct debit.
I did once do this. The bank were a little reluntant but they did do as
asked.

Why a monthly direct debit? Mine produces a bill every three months
and collects the sum due by direct debit.

Who does that? Did they offer that method or did you have to find out
for yourself? EDF and British Gas don't seem to offer that.

nPower used to do that. That's how I set up my nPower account. But
then they were taken over by e-on next and mysteriously it appears I
have now "chosen" to be billed and pay monthly. I'm still paying for
what I've used, in arrears, so it doesn't make that much difference.

Nick

Tim Streater wrote:
On 25 Mar 2021 at 20:43:43 GMT, Chris Green wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

I quite agree that paying efficiently by DD makes sense but that isn't
a reason for the extra 'layer' of paper pushers (or DD pushers)
between me and the actual producers of electricity.

Don't be silly. If these middlemen didn't do it, then the actual power
companies would have to do it. As it is, they just sell a few large chunks of
power to the middlemen, who set up tarriffs which they offer to us. The
middlemen also insulate us from risk due to changes in the price *they* have
to pay to get power. It's a form of forward buying, similar to forward selling
by coffee growers or other such producers, but I imagine you don't approve of
that either.

Just like banks are simply middlemen between you and the money markets.
You're free to cut out the middlemen and go directly to the markets, but you
might find they can't be bothered with your puny transactions.

So how did it work before it was all done this way? It's not been
like this for all that long has it?

Before that AFAIK there was only one supplier of volts which was your local
electricity board. Which was nationalised and had no incentive to cut costs.

and was connected to a nationalised power station with coal delivered by
nationalised trains from nationalised coal mines. No middlemen there.

... and anyway, why can't the suppliers do what the 'middlemen' do and
cut out their profit margin?

Well some, like EDF, do.

Some own their own generation plant (like EDF's nukes), and some don't.
It generally doesn't work to own many smaller generators, like all that
rooftop solar.

Theo

On 25/03/2021 22:29, Max Demian wrote:
On 25/03/2021 18:41, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 18:28:57 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 25/03/2021 16:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:

I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay quarterly by cash/cheque.

Doubt you'll find one on offer.

https://my.edfenergy.com/gas-electricity/tariff-information-labels/

Enter any valid postcode. Select cash/cheque as payment method, then
click on "Apply filters", Then Cash/cheque Whole Amount (Quarterly).

Quite a few tariffs will appear (eventually - it's a slow website).

Why would anyone want to use cash or cheque? If you have a bank
account - as you obviously do - paying by direct debit is more
convenient, may give you a better tariff and is protected by the
direct debit guarantee if anything goes wrong..

The "direct debit guarantee" doesn't guarantee that they won't
overcharge you and use the surplus to maintain their cash flow. I prefer
quarterly in arrears, so I'm only paying for what I use. Of course, I
don't actually pay by cash or cheque, I pay by bank transfer online.
They don't give you the option of paying the quarterly charge by direct
debit (after telling you how much). (Credit card companies and BT manage
to do that.)

So do the water companies. The energy suppliers seem to be unique
amongst utility suppliers in almost demanding payment this way, and
heavily overcharging those who don't/won't use it (and ripping off those
who do - a win-win for them).

I pay all my bills by BACS immediately upon receipt. It's just taken me
a couple of minutes to set up a BACS Standing Order for my Council Tax
bill for 2021-22. The first payment is slightly higher than the
remaining nine. The council gets paid a few days early; I know exactly
when and what gets paid. I don't even have to check if a DD payment has
been made - it's between my bank and the council to sort out any problem
(although I've never known one to occur).

From what i understand, the energy companies' "DD guarantee" far from
saying that they won't overcharge you almost guarantees they will! If
not, why have Ofgem made a very-obvious public statement about the
overcharging?

--

Jeff

The system at EDF seems to have become confused and messy since they all
started working from home. There seems no way for their agents to be able to
immediately put you on hold then go and find things out.
I'm on a Blue fixed until June and I expect to get an offer sometime in
May. Of course from what I can tell, most of the other companies want you to
use a smart meter, and I would if any of them could give me written
agreement to make sure their customer unit was a talking one which are
there.
Nobody wants to do that.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
I thought I should finally make an effort to change from an EDF standard
variable dual-fuel tariff to a fixed EDF one. I assumed it would not be
simple (as far as I could see the tariffs I was interested in weren't
available through a Switch website, and they appeared to be identical on
the EDF website but had different names).

First stage was to set up an online account ("MyAccount") with EDF. Pretty
straightforward. Then I asked for a new tariff. There were a few filters
to get through - I wanted a fixed tariff and to pay quarterly by
cash/cheque. I was offered only *one* tariff, and that one included a
servicing agreement - and it appeared to be a direct debit one! I wasn't
interested in it. No matter what I tried I could not get to the tariff I
was interested in. So I tried clicking on "live chat" and found it wasn't
available!

I then tried several different routes on the edfenergy pages, but they all
ended up at the same place with that one tariff. Next was the 0333 number
on the letter I'd been sent warning me of a price rise on 1 April. After
umpteen selections of "Press 1" etc, I was told they were very busy and I
would have to wait at least 10 minutes. After 12 minutes the muzak just
stopped and the phone went silent. I held on for another 5 minutes then
gave up. I next tried a different 0333 number, apparently specifically for
changing tariffs, but that ended up the same as the first one.

I then tried edfenergy.com/livechat, expecting it to have the same
unavailability as the previous live chat attempt, but no, I got through. I
find live chat rather slow, but eventually found the agent didn't know why
the two tariffs were the same, and why I'd only been offered one different
one. I was told I'd be sent an email with the explanation.

Before I started this whole process I was convinced it would be an
exercise in insanity, and I wasn't disappointed! According to "Trustpilot"
(who I've previously had issues with and reported to the Information
Commissioner's Office) EDF are rated "excellent" with 4.5 stars. I can
only wonder what the other energy companies are like...

--

Jeff

On 26/03/2021 08:06, Jeff Layman wrote:

From what i understand, the energy companies' "DD guarantee" far from
saying that they won't overcharge you almost guarantees they will! If
not, why have Ofgem made a very-obvious public statement about the
overcharging?


Stick to your principles and pay by check/cash/BACs and have a very
restricted choice of tariffs and pay 10% to 30% more.

Often the initial DD charges are based on the figures the _customer_
gives to the energy supplier.



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article , Tim Streater
wrote:
On 25 Mar 2021 at 20:43:43 GMT, Chris Green wrote:

Tim Streater wrote:

I quite agree that paying efficiently by DD makes sense but that
isn't a reason for the extra 'layer' of paper pushers (or DD
pushers) between me and the actual producers of electricity.

Don't be silly. If these middlemen didn't do it, then the actual
power companies would have to do it. As it is, they just sell a few
large chunks of power to the middlemen, who set up tarriffs which
they offer to us. The middlemen also insulate us from risk due to
changes in the price *they* have to pay to get power. It's a form of
forward buying, similar to forward selling by coffee growers or other
such producers, but I imagine you don't approve of that either.

So how did it work before it was all done this way? It's not been like
this for all that long has it?

Before that AFAIK there was only one supplier of volts which was your
local electricity board. Which was nationalised and had no incentive to
cut costs.

and they didn't need to make a profit for shareholders or pay vast
directors' salaries

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 26/03/2021 08:16, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
The system at EDF seems to have become confused and messy since they all
started working from home. There seems no way for their agents to be able to
immediately put you on hold then go and find things out.
I'm on a Blue fixed until June and I expect to get an offer sometime in
May.

Most companies do not contact you to offer a new deal or even to say
that your old deal is coming to an end. They make more money by just
placing you on their standard variable tariff and hope you don't notice.

It's much like the insurance industry which tries to sign you up for
auto renewals in the hope that you will be to lazy to notice that the
introductory 20% to 30% discount is no longer valid, or that the excess
amounts have risen.

The customer service from a lot of companies, not just energy companies,
has gone downhill since the lockdowns, probably because of fewer staff
or not having the full infrastructure for home working.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 26/03/2021 08:52, alan_m wrote:
On 26/03/2021 08:06, Jeff Layman wrote:

From what i understand, the energy companies' "DD guarantee" far from
saying that they won't overcharge you almost guarantees they will! If
not, why have Ofgem made a very-obvious public statement about the
overcharging?


Stick to your principles and pay by check/cash/BACs and have a very
restricted choice of tariffs and pay 10% to 30% more.

Another fiddle. Assuming there is a fixed cost to supply an individual
bill rather than extract a DD payment, the charge should be the same
whether the energy bill is £5 or £500. But it isn't - they apply a
percentage to the bill. BT applies a fixed amount, the water company
makes no charge. Why are the energy companies different?

Often the initial DD charges are based on the figures the _customer_
gives to the energy supplier.

For a new supplier maybe, but the energy company must know a longer-term
customer's average usage. If the DD is consistently too high, resulting
in the account being in credit every year, something is wrong.

--

Jeff

On 25/03/2021 22:38, alan_m wrote:
On 25/03/2021 21:44, newshound wrote:
On 25/03/2021 18:45, Peter Able wrote:
On 25/03/2021 16:20, Jeff Layman wrote:
I assumed it would not be simple

So you were proved correct.Â* d-i-y, for sure.

Move on - and the less restrictions you apply, the better the deal
you'll find on any of the numerous energy-switching sites.

PA

Time I switched again too. I've always used the Which? service because
I (more or less) trust them and think they are a useful campaigning
organisation, but does anyone have other thoughts?

Surely Which? recommends Octopus (according to the adverts) - much more
expensive when I checked their tariffs this year.




https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...ricity-prices/

Seems to be pretty comprehensive.

And, OP, there is an option called "pay on receipt of bill" - if you
insist on not using Direct Debit. Seems to cost about £200 extra per
annum if you do so. Your choice.

PA

On 26/03/2021 09:17, Jeff Layman wrote:

the water company
makes no charge. Why are the energy companies different?

They do make a charge but don't show it as a separate amount. Being a
monopoly supplier in an area means that they can also charge as much as
they like for providing the bill. Billing and payment doesn't come for free.




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Tim Streater brought next idea :
Not really pointless. Agreed that for the most part they are just billing
organisations. The volts are actually supplied by the likes of UK Power
Networks, not by such as npower etc.

They are the retailers, between us and the wholesalers. They seek out
the best deal they can from the wholesalers, it is then up to us to get
the best deal we can from those retailers. I have no complaints, it
works very well indeed for me. My costs have never been so cheap,
relatively.


But the billing side is a largish chunk of the cost. Why shouldn't there be a
mechanism to reduce the cost of that part? It's no different to no longer
queuing up in a shop to wait your turn for some klod to take a tin of cocoa
off the shelf behind him and hand it to you. You may as well do that yourself
while you wait. And so the self-service idea takes off: cheaper for you,
quicker, and thus better for the environment.

And we no longer sit in the car while some geezer fills up our tank. What did
your last servant die of anyway?

Supply of volts and stinking gas is no different: cost reduced by automated
payments. It's also why they're after us to put smart meters in.

Exactly right - work with them, to minimise their costs and due to the
mass of energy supply competition, it brings the overall cost down for
you as a customer.

On 26/03/2021 08:56, charles wrote:

Before that AFAIK there was only one supplier of volts which was your
local electricity board. Which was nationalised and had no incentive to
cut costs.

and they didn't need to make a profit for shareholders or pay vast
directors' salaries


Where do you think they got their money from to make improvements for
infrastructure etc? The magic money tree?

If nationalisation was such a good idea why weren't prices and service
very much better BEFORE these services were privatised.




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

It happens that Chris Green formulated :
I quite agree that paying efficiently by DD makes sense but that isn't
a reason for the extra 'layer' of paper pushers (or DD pushers)
between me and the actual producers of electricity.

I know you can, but would you expect to always go to the farm for your
milk, for your fruit and your veg? Would you go to the refinery for
your petrol and diesel? To the weaver for your clothes? To the printer
for your books? To the manufacturer for you car. There have always been
middlemen and always will be, because there is a very obvious need to
separate production from distribution and retailing.

Tim Streater has brought this to us :
Well some, like EDF, do.

But even then, they run as more or less two independent businesses of
generation and retail.

alan_m formulated on Thursday :
Surely Which? recommends Octopus (according to the adverts) - much more
expensive when I checked their tariffs this year.

Cheapest can change very rapidly, even week by week, which is why each
company has so many names for their tariffs like V21.5 and there are
always special offers if they are wanting to increase their customer
base. The trick is to find a particularly good offer, during the last
few weeks of your annual contract with your present supplier, then
switch - before your present supplier moves you onto one of their
'standard contracts'.

Exceptionally - I didn't change supplier at the end of my last annual
contract, I spotted a better contract tariff for this year with my
present one and I'm now paying 15 to 20% less than I would have been to
a new supplier, with a new contract. My present new tariff was only
available for a short while and I didn't really expect them to allow me
to take it - as an existing customer.

alan_m explained :
Most companies do not contact you to offer a new deal or even to say that
your old deal is coming to an end. They make more money by just placing you
on their standard variable tariff and hope you don't notice.

I think they are legally obliged to let you know when your contract is
coming to an end. Certainly every company I have been with recently,
has emailed me to let me know and advised what tariff I would be moved
to at the end. Even if they didn't, I'm signed up with MSE to let me
know and make suggestions as to which supplier and tariff would be my
best one to move to.

I get the same notices for car and house insurance, changes in interest
of banks and investments, pensions etc..

In article ,
Scott wrote:
Why a monthly direct debit? Mine produces a bill every three months
and collects the sum due by direct debit.

They are effectively giving you credit for more time than monthly. Which
is going to cost you more. I don't think any of the best deals do
quarterly.

--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.