On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:19:41 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:19:06 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
Why a monthly direct debit? Mine produces a bill every three months
and collects the sum due by direct debit.

They are effectively giving you credit for more time than monthly. Which
is going to cost you more. I don't think any of the best deals do
quarterly.

I think the counter-argument is that you are paying the correct amount
instead of allowing the supplier to pick a higher amount then refund
you - or not - at the end of the year.

My monthly DD is based on my use the previous month. Meters are read
monthly. And I can check on my account whether there is any long term
discrepancy.

That is just as good - possibly better from the budgeting point of
view. I think the criticism is where suppliers estimate a whole year
and set an average, which is typically higher than the actual usage,
leaving a credit at the year end.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:26:19 +0000, Scott
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:19:41 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:19:06 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
Why a monthly direct debit? Mine produces a bill every three months
and collects the sum due by direct debit.

They are effectively giving you credit for more time than monthly. Which
is going to cost you more. I don't think any of the best deals do
quarterly.

I think the counter-argument is that you are paying the correct amount
instead of allowing the supplier to pick a higher amount then refund
you - or not - at the end of the year.

My monthly DD is based on my use the previous month. Meters are read
monthly. And I can check on my account whether there is any long term
discrepancy.

That is just as good - possibly better from the budgeting point of
view. I think the criticism is where suppliers estimate a whole year
and set an average, which is typically higher than the actual usage,
leaving a credit at the year end.

PS I have found the paperwork. It's called 'variable direct debit'. I
cannot find any any specific mention of frequency of payment but it
says '1st day of the month' so I assume it is paid monthly.

On 26/03/2021 15:17, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:26:19 +0000, Scott
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:19:41 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:19:06 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
Why a monthly direct debit? Mine produces a bill every three months
and collects the sum due by direct debit.

They are effectively giving you credit for more time than monthly. Which
is going to cost you more. I don't think any of the best deals do
quarterly.

I think the counter-argument is that you are paying the correct amount
instead of allowing the supplier to pick a higher amount then refund
you - or not - at the end of the year.

My monthly DD is based on my use the previous month. Meters are read
monthly. And I can check on my account whether there is any long term
discrepancy.

That is just as good - possibly better from the budgeting point of
view. I think the criticism is where suppliers estimate a whole year
and set an average, which is typically higher than the actual usage,
leaving a credit at the year end.

PS I have found the paperwork. It's called 'variable direct debit'. I
cannot find any any specific mention of frequency of payment but it
says '1st day of the month' so I assume it is paid monthly.
EDF tells me that "Pay As You Go" is a new way to pay if you have a
smart meter. I assume that means monthly or quarterly direct debit based
on actual usage. But it's not easy to find that method on their website
or comparison ones.

But there was a strange comment on what seemed to be a similar type of
tariff. They set up a standard amount DD to be paid quarterly, but asked
for the actual meter reading when the bill was due. They added that a
meter reading should not be sent to them unless it was asked for. Why am
I cynical enough to believe that they /might/ forget to ask for one in
summer when the DD would be much higher than the actual amount used, but
be quick off the mark in winter when the actual amount would be higher
than the DD?

--

Jeff

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:45:05 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 26/03/2021 15:17, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:26:19 +0000, Scott
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:19:41 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 11:19:06 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
Why a monthly direct debit? Mine produces a bill every three months
and collects the sum due by direct debit.

They are effectively giving you credit for more time than monthly. Which
is going to cost you more. I don't think any of the best deals do
quarterly.

I think the counter-argument is that you are paying the correct amount
instead of allowing the supplier to pick a higher amount then refund
you - or not - at the end of the year.

My monthly DD is based on my use the previous month. Meters are read
monthly. And I can check on my account whether there is any long term
discrepancy.

That is just as good - possibly better from the budgeting point of
view. I think the criticism is where suppliers estimate a whole year
and set an average, which is typically higher than the actual usage,
leaving a credit at the year end.

PS I have found the paperwork. It's called 'variable direct debit'. I
cannot find any any specific mention of frequency of payment but it
says '1st day of the month' so I assume it is paid monthly.
EDF tells me that "Pay As You Go" is a new way to pay if you have a
smart meter. I assume that means monthly or quarterly direct debit based
on actual usage. But it's not easy to find that method on their website
or comparison ones.

I think it is called variable direct debit. Pay As You Go may be a
specific EDF product name.

But there was a strange comment on what seemed to be a similar type of
tariff. They set up a standard amount DD to be paid quarterly, but asked
for the actual meter reading when the bill was due. They added that a
meter reading should not be sent to them unless it was asked for. Why am
I cynical enough to believe that they /might/ forget to ask for one in
summer when the DD would be much higher than the actual amount used, but
be quick off the mark in winter when the actual amount would be higher
than the DD?

I certainly would not agree to that. I want them to create the bill,
allow me access to check it and collect the money a suitable number of
days later. That AIUI is what variable direct debit does.

On 26/03/2021 16:36, Scott wrote:

I certainly would not agree to that. I want them to create the bill,
allow me access to check it and collect the money a suitable number of
days later. That AIUI is what variable direct debit does.

I think there is a legal requirement to inform you before changing any
amount taken on a variable DD hence a monthly bill[1]. However the time
between being informed and the DD going through may be short. It also
means that those who have signed up for paperless billing have to make
the effort to go on-line at the appropriate time.

[1]
Where the variable amounts are known in advance (council tax higher in
the first month and lower in subsequent months) a yearly bill in advance
is all that is necessary.

With my energy supplier the DD is a fixed amount every month and in
advance. To meet the DD rules I probably only have to be told this once
at the beginning of the contract because the amount doesn't change.
Perhaps this saves in admin costs and allowing the bill to be any day
from the 10th to the 15th of the month.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote:

I think there is a legal requirement to inform you before changing any
amount taken on a variable DD hence a monthly bill[1]. However the time
between being informed and the DD going through may be short.

Plusnet take variable amounts by DD each month (due to call charges and
random discounts) they do send an advance notice.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:33:41 +0000, alan_m
wrote:

On 26/03/2021 16:36, Scott wrote:

I certainly would not agree to that. I want them to create the bill,
allow me access to check it and collect the money a suitable number of
days later. That AIUI is what variable direct debit does.

I think there is a legal requirement to inform you before changing any
amount taken on a variable DD hence a monthly bill[1]. However the time
between being informed and the DD going through may be short. It also
means that those who have signed up for paperless billing have to make
the effort to go on-line at the appropriate time.

[1]
Where the variable amounts are known in advance (council tax higher in
the first month and lower in subsequent months) a yearly bill in advance
is all that is necessary.

With my energy supplier the DD is a fixed amount every month and in
advance. To meet the DD rules I probably only have to be told this once
at the beginning of the contract because the amount doesn't change.
Perhaps this saves in admin costs and allowing the bill to be any day
from the 10th to the 15th of the month.

In other words, fixed DD benefits the supplier. On top of that, if the
monthly sum is exaggerated the supplier benefits from the account
credit, which AIUI was the point OP was making in the first place. The
concern seems to be that suppliers can benefit by holding the
customer's money. How would you propose to remedy this within the
framework of a fixed DD?

On 26/03/2021 19:25, Scott wrote:

In other words, fixed DD benefits the supplier. On top of that, if the
monthly sum is exaggerated the supplier benefits from the account
credit, which AIUI was the point OP was making in the first place. The
concern seems to be that suppliers can benefit by holding the
customer's money. How would you propose to remedy this within the
framework of a fixed DD?


I don't have problems with my DD because the amount taken over the year
closely matches my usage. Even in the year where I reduced my annual
energy consumption the excess was paid back quickly when requested.

Common sense comes into play. If you check your bills and find that the
DD amount taken is excessive just email the company and request that the
amount is reduced.



--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 26/03/2021 14:26, Scott wrote:


That is just as good - possibly better from the budgeting point of
view. I think the criticism is where suppliers estimate a whole year
and set an average, which is typically higher than the actual usage,
leaving a credit at the year end.


I'm currently paying that way with the monthly DD taken in advance but
the amount is based on the annual consumption figures I entered. In the
previous year I ended up in credit but mainly due to house improvements
that resulted in me using less energy. A quick email and the credit was
refunded back into my bank account.

You may argue that paying in advance and with a fixed amount I'm lending
money to the energy company but (for my consumption) I'm probably paying
a couple of hundred pounds less that any deals that the OP is being
offered with his method of payment or even from EDF with DD. The Cheap
Energy Club currently cannot offer me a cheaper deal. I don't
necessarily chase the cheapest deal but this year I seem to have got
lucky with taking out a new fixed price contract around 30 days ago (but
signed up 60 days ago) with the same supplier before they increased
prices in line with other suppliers.

I really don't mind which DD method they bill me but but for some people
having a fixed monthly bill suits them for financial management purposes.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
Scott wrote:
My monthly DD is based on my use the previous month. Meters are read
monthly. And I can check on my account whether there is any long term
discrepancy.

That is just as good - possibly better from the budgeting point of
view. I think the criticism is where suppliers estimate a whole year
and set an average, which is typically higher than the actual usage,
leaving a credit at the year end.

I leave it all to Flipper. But have noticed that once a fixed monthly DD
was common, but the last couple of changes have gone to variable.

Everything being equal, paying as soon as possible for what you use should
give you the best deal. And a fixed monthly payment would mean you'll be
in credit some parts of the year and in debit at others. Or lending the
supplier money. Neither of which make it the best deal.

--
*Women like silent men; they think they're listening.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 27/03/2021 14:04, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
My monthly DD is based on my use the previous month. Meters are read
monthly. And I can check on my account whether there is any long term
discrepancy.

That is just as good - possibly better from the budgeting point of
view. I think the criticism is where suppliers estimate a whole year
and set an average, which is typically higher than the actual usage,
leaving a credit at the year end.

I leave it all to Flipper. But have noticed that once a fixed monthly DD
was common, but the last couple of changes have gone to variable.

Everything being equal, paying as soon as possible for what you use should
give you the best deal. And a fixed monthly payment would mean you'll be
in credit some parts of the year and in debit at others. Or lending the
supplier money. Neither of which make it the best deal.



The companies are not necessarily buying the energy the same way as the
customer and a constant cash flow over 12 months may be better for their
buying needs. With a variable DD that reflects only the bill amount the
cash flow in summer may be a third to half what it will be in the winter
months.

Even some of the better deals may not be available to some of the bigger
auto swapping organisations. While the big energy companies can
accommodate say 100,000 switches in one go the smaller companies cannot
cope with this number in a single hit. Even some of the Cheap Energy
Club switches have been limited to the first, say, 25,000 customers that
apply.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk