"tim..." wrote in message
...


"Jimmy Stewart" wrote in message
...
Wife got phone call this moning fom Virgin media and the indian caller in
a busy call centre told her her computer was runing slow and she could
speed things up...wife didn't have her laptop on and couldn't find her
glasses so she hollered out the window to me in the font garden to come
in and speak to the wummin'....so I came in and spoke to her....she asked
me if I had my computer on and what was the key to the right of CTRL....I
told her FN and she said to push the windows key to the right of
that......at that point I twigged it was a scam and hung up....she phoned
back imediately and I hung up again....I assumed it was a scam but the
scarry thing was The wife would have fell for it....what info were they
after after they took over the computer ?

what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says "your
computer is running slowly"

Someone who doesnt understand anything about
computers and that is by far the majority of people.

How are they supposed to know this?

It isnt hard for the service provider to see
that a remote computer is running slowly
and not surprising that a member of the
public assumes that is possible.

do they have a camera installed in your house watching you, or something?

They dont need that, just monitor the
traffic over the service being provided.

And most computers do in fact have
a camera looking at the user too.

"tim..." wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2021 15:45, tim... wrote:
what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says "your
computer is running slowly"

(i) mostly unintelligent people
(ii) or supposedly intelligent people who haven't a clue how *anything*
works *at all* (C.f. 'Art Students').

How are they supposed to know this?

do they have a camera installed in your house watching you, or
something?

Don't need that. traffic analysis can give you a clue actually.

but that's a fault within their network

Nope, it can often be with your computer.

not with my computer

Wrong, as always.

"Jimmy Stewart ..." wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2021 19:18, Rod Speed wrote:
Jimmy Stewart wrote

Wife got phone call this moning fom Virgin media and the indian caller
in a busy call centre told her her computer was runing slow and she
could speed things up...wife didn't have her laptop on and couldn't find
her glasses so she hollered out the window to me in the font garden

Didnt realise you baptised little kids in your garden. Funky...

to come in and speak to the wummin'....so I came in and spoke to her....
she asked me if I had my computer on and what was the key to the right
of CTRL....I told her FN and she said to push the windows key to the
right of that......at that point I twigged it was a scam and hung
up....she phoned back imediately and I hung up again....I assumed it was
a scam but the scarry thing was The wife would have fell for it....

Time to trade her in on a new bimbo.

what info were they after after they took over the computer ?

Whatever is on it thats useful to them like you banking details and
passwords etc.

but I have to put in my banking stuff manually...???

They arent to know that.

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 06:18:31 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile scum's latest troll**** unread

You are getting pretty much ignored by everyone (except by me), eh, senile
lonely scum? LOL

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

Jimmy Stewart wrote:
On 03/03/2021 11:31, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 03 Mar 2021 11:26:44 +0000, Jimmy Stewart wrote:

Wife got phone call this moning fom Virgin media and the indian caller
in a busy call centre told her her computer was runing slow and she
could speed things up...wife didn't have her laptop on and couldn't find
her glasses so she hollered out the window to me in the font garden to
come in and speak to the wummin'....so I came in and spoke to her....she
asked me if I had my computer on and what was the key to the right of
CTRL....I told her FN and she said to push the windows key to the right
of that......at that point I twigged it was a scam and hung up....she
phoned back imediately and I hung up again....I assumed it was a scam
but the scarry thing was The wife would have fell for it....what info
were they after after they took over the computer ?

Who knows ? But they probably make a cent or two for every infected
computer they can deliver to the bot networks.

Crypto mining was in vogue a while back.

is pushing the windows key one of the steps to give them control of your
computer ? ...


That question tells us you are no brighter than you think you wife is.

Jimmy Stewart ... wrote:
On 03/03/2021 15:45, tim... wrote:


"Jimmy Stewart" wrote in message
...
Wife got phone call this moning fom Virgin media and the indian caller
in a busy call centre told her her computer was runing slow and she
could speed things up...wife didn't have her laptop on and couldn't
find her glasses so she hollered out the window to me in the font
garden to come in and speak to the wummin'....so I came in and spoke
to her....she asked me if I had my computer on and what was the key to
the right of CTRL....I told her FN and she said to push the windows
key to the right of that......at that point I twigged it was a scam
and hung up....she phoned back imediately and I hung up again....I
assumed it was a scam but the scarry thing was The wife would have
fell for it....what info were they after after they took over the
computer ?

what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says "your
computer is running slowly"

How are they supposed to know this?

do they have a camera installed in your house watching you, or something?



problem is fecking Virgin media is slow even when a speed test says
otherwise.....


Ours is fine. Virgin does slow down when they are monitoring your
connection for the police.

On 03/03/2021 20:49, Radio Man wrote:
Jimmy Stewart ... wrote:
On 03/03/2021 15:45, tim... wrote:


"Jimmy Stewart" wrote in message
...
Wife got phone call this moning fom Virgin media and the indian caller
in a busy call centre told her her computer was runing slow and she
could speed things up...wife didn't have her laptop on and couldn't
find her glasses so she hollered out the window to me in the font
garden to come in and speak to the wummin'....so I came in and spoke
to her....she asked me if I had my computer on and what was the key to
the right of CTRL....I told her FN and she said to push the windows
key to the right of that......at that point I twigged it was a scam
and hung up....she phoned back imediately and I hung up again....I
assumed it was a scam but the scarry thing was The wife would have
fell for it....what info were they after after they took over the
computer ?

what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says "your
computer is running slowly"

How are they supposed to know this?

do they have a camera installed in your house watching you, or something?



problem is fecking Virgin media is slow even when a speed test says
otherwise.....


Ours is fine. Virgin does slow down when they are monitoring your
connection for the police.

nice one brian...tee hee

On 03/03/2021 20:49, Radio Man wrote:
Jimmy Stewart wrote:
On 03/03/2021 11:31, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 03 Mar 2021 11:26:44 +0000, Jimmy Stewart wrote:

Wife got phone call this moning fom Virgin media and the indian caller
in a busy call centre told her her computer was runing slow and she
could speed things up...wife didn't have her laptop on and couldn't find
her glasses so she hollered out the window to me in the font garden to
come in and speak to the wummin'....so I came in and spoke to her....she
asked me if I had my computer on and what was the key to the right of
CTRL....I told her FN and she said to push the windows key to the right
of that......at that point I twigged it was a scam and hung up....she
phoned back imediately and I hung up again....I assumed it was a scam
but the scarry thing was The wife would have fell for it....what info
were they after after they took over the computer ?

Who knows ? But they probably make a cent or two for every infected
computer they can deliver to the bot networks.

Crypto mining was in vogue a while back.

is pushing the windows key one of the steps to give them control of your
computer ? ...


That question tells us you are no brighter than you think you wife is.

You must remember I hate computers and have no interest in them in any
way .....

On 03/03/2021 18:02, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 17:17:58 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

People read the papers, watch the news, follow social media where
warnings about this sort of scam are abundant but some still seem to
fall for it?

Because the scammers are adaptive.

Of course and try to stay 'one step ahead' etc.

They know that people see the news
about online threats, so they just play up that aspect of their pretext.

But we have the 'don't give your bank / credit card details / PIN /
password to anyone who phones *you* rule that should deal with a fair
percentage of the scammers. Then you have the 'don't give anyone
(unknown / untrusted) remote access to your PC' group? Then you get
the bogus delivery type.

Again they will structure it so that they don't ask you for anything
like that. Normally they just want you to login to your online banking
on your own computer.

(the wrinkle being they have got you to give them remote access first,
and then claim they can't see what you are doing)

If they can convince you they are your bank and they have managed to
identify a scam in progress, the background knowledge can actually help
them make the argument.

Sure, but so easily thwarted by hanging up and *phoning them* on a
number you have or find (bill / Internet), not that they give you, on
another line if you distrust the dialtone.

You obviously could - but you would need to be aware enough to know to
use a different line etc.

But hey, given the amount of bank details I've seen blowing about from
fly-tipped household waste I'm not sure you would need to actually
bother the account holders at all! (And yet another example of how
some people seem ignorant of the advice and so risks (identity fraud
etc))? ;-(

Bank details on their own are less useful - they can't make transactions
apart from say setting up a direct debit.

Straight cut shredders anyone?

The sad reality is that they make enough money to make it worthwhile
doing (and take advantage of very lax enforcement in their country)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03-03-2021 12:40, jon wrote:
On Wed, 03 Mar 2021 12:00:48 +0000, GB wrote:

On 03/03/2021 11:40, Jimmy Stewart wrote:
On 03/03/2021 11:31, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 03 Mar 2021 11:26:44 +0000, Jimmy Stewart wrote:

Wife got phone call this moning fom Virgin media and the indian
caller in a busy call centre told her her computer was runing slow
and she could speed things up...wife didn't have her laptop on and
couldn't find her glasses so she hollered out the window to me in the
font garden to come in and speak to the wummin'....so I came in and
spoke to her....she asked me if I had my computer on and what was the
key to the right of CTRL....I told her FN and she said to push the
windows key to the right of that......at that point I twigged it was
a scam and hung up....she phoned back imediately and I hung up
again....I assumed it was a scam but the scarry thing was The wife
would have fell for it....what info were they after after they took
over the computer ?

Who knows ? But they probably make a cent or two for every infected
computer they can deliver to the bot networks.

Crypto mining was in vogue a while back.

is pushing the windows key one of the steps to give them control of
your computer ? ...


Thanks goodness you didn't push it. If you had pressed the windows key
and R at the same time, they could have taken over your soul. Mind you,
most changes would be an improvement.

oh, that is so unfair the way you treat jimbo


The man is ignorant.

Anything they could find failing that put a bomb in so some weeks on you
cannot access your machines data and are asked to send them bit coins to
unlock it.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jimmy Stewart" wrote in message
...
Wife got phone call this moning fom Virgin media and the indian caller in
a busy call centre told her her computer was runing slow and she could
speed things up...wife didn't have her laptop on and couldn't find her
glasses so she hollered out the window to me in the font garden to come in
and speak to the wummin'....so I came in and spoke to her....she asked me
if I had my computer on and what was the key to the right of CTRL....I
told her FN and she said to push the windows key to the right of
that......at that point I twigged it was a scam and hung up....she phoned
back imediately and I hung up again....I assumed it was a scam but the
scarry thing was The wife would have fell for it....what info were they
after after they took over the computer ?

On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 21:03:22 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 03/03/2021 18:02, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 17:17:58 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

People read the papers, watch the news, follow social media where
warnings about this sort of scam are abundant but some still seem to
fall for it?

Because the scammers are adaptive.

Of course and try to stay 'one step ahead' etc.

They know that people see the news
about online threats, so they just play up that aspect of their pretext.

But we have the 'don't give your bank / credit card details / PIN /
password to anyone who phones *you* rule that should deal with a fair
percentage of the scammers. Then you have the 'don't give anyone
(unknown / untrusted) remote access to your PC' group? Then you get
the bogus delivery type.

Again they will structure it so that they don't ask you for anything
like that. Normally they just want you to login to your online banking
on your own computer.

(the wrinkle being they have got you to give them remote access first,
and then claim they can't see what you are doing)

Yeah, like I said then.

If they can convince you they are your bank and they have managed to
identify a scam in progress, the background knowledge can actually help
them make the argument.

Sure, but so easily thwarted by hanging up and *phoning them* on a
number you have or find (bill / Internet), not that they give you, on
another line if you distrust the dialtone.

You obviously could - but you would need to be aware enough to know to
use a different line etc.

Of course. Ok, I get if you are 'non tech savvy' or not have many
'street smarts' you could be suckered in but ...

But hey, given the amount of bank details I've seen blowing about from
fly-tipped household waste I'm not sure you would need to actually
bother the account holders at all! (And yet another example of how
some people seem ignorant of the advice and so risks (identity fraud
etc))? ;-(

Bank details on their own are less useful - they can't make transactions
apart from say setting up a direct debit.

True, but it could give them the start for a way in.

Straight cut shredders anyone?

The sad reality is that they make enough money to make it worthwhile
doing (and take advantage of very lax enforcement in their country)

Yup. ;-(

BIL was probably about 60 when he was suckered into transferring a
good few thousand into their 'safe' bank account but he was yer
classic 'Technophobe'. Whilst he had some points (at work they had a
typing pool and was one of the few account managers to still make use
of them, inc dictating emails etc [1]), this meant he was further
behind than most and so a softer target.

As you say, with the shear numbers they hit each day, they only have
to find a couple like my BIL (and get away with it) to make a living.

Cheers, T i m

[1] His point was that the people in the typing pool were paid to be
there and were good at producing documents to the Co std. This was in
comparison with those managers who preferred to spend more time doing
it themselves and making all sorts of mistakes whilst at it.

On 03/03/2021 15:45, tim... wrote:

what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says "your
computer is running slowly"

There are people around who aren't very intelligent. In fact some really
stupid people seem to survive to a ripe old age.

Bill

williamwright wrote
tim... wrote

what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says "your
computer is running slowly"

There are people around who aren't very intelligent. In fact some really
stupid people seem to survive to a ripe old age.

And plenty more that know so little about technology that
they dont have a clue whether their service provider can
work out if their computer is running slow or not but are
aware that a service provider can ring you and tell you
that there is a problem with the service being provided.

On 03/03/2021 22:22, T i m wrote:

[1] His point was that the people in the typing pool were paid to be
there and were good at producing documents to the Co std. This was in
comparison with those managers who preferred to spend more time doing
it themselves and making all sorts of mistakes whilst at it.

Yeah, that can work both ways though...

I had a software development contract in the mid to late 90's at
GEC/Marconi's air radio group. They had a traditional tech pubs
department armed with Data Recall Diamond 7 word processors and nice
daisy wheel printers. To get any document published, you gave a copy to
them, and they typed it up and issued it - keeping a formal record copy
in their filing cabinets, and possibly a copy on floppy disk. This
process was created in an age where most documentation would be produced
by the engineers by hand.

Alas they really had no clue about software - their idea of
configuration control was to do it the same was as they did paper
documents, they would keep a master copy of the ROMs for the various
bits of kit in a cupboard, and could arrange for copies to be sent to
production when required. That meant if you wanted the source code to
be able to rebuild or alter something in the future, the best you would
likely get form tech pubs would be a blank stare. It was pot luck if you
could find the original engineer, and hope their development system
still existed, and they still had a readable floppy with code on it!

So when we started (big project - Merlin Helicopter comms sub system) a
big influx of software people, this was also the first time that all the
engineers had PCs and their own word processors. This created a certain
amount of tension within the tech pubs traditionalists. The original
plan was we could word process our own documents and give them to tech
pubs. They would print them out, then get the typing pool to rekey into
their systems and issue the draft doc. Engineering could review and
correct it, and send it back and fourth until it was "correct" and then
passed by QA, and could be issued.

Needless to say the whole process very quickly fell about in a heap when
presented with long technical docs - and the typists did not appreciate
that exact layout and choice of character really did matter on software
stuff. No amount of sending stuff back with comments could get something
even close to what you needed.

After much argument, they agreed that we could do the body of the
document ourselves, but they would produce the three front pages to the
corporate standard and affix them!

Needless to say we could do a much more faithful implementation of their
corporate document standard with Wordperfect and feeding PostScript to a
HP LaserJet IV, than they could on their dedicated word processors!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/03/2021 16:34, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2021 15:45, tim... wrote:
what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says
"your computer is running slowly"

(i) mostly unintelligent people
(ii) or supposedly intelligent people who haven't a clue how
*anything* works *at all* (C.f. 'Art Students').

How are they supposed to know this?

do they have a camera installed in your house watching you, or
something?

Don't need that. traffic analysis can give you a clue actually.

but that's a fault within their network

No.
If you car is travelling slow as evinced by e.g. a GPS signal phoning
home, it might be the car or it might be the traffic. You can't tell.
But if all the other cars are travelling faster, its a good hint the
reason is in YOUR car

not with my computer





--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

On 03/03/2021 21:38, Radio Man wrote:
On 03-03-2021 12:40, jon wrote:
On Wed, 03 Mar 2021 12:00:48 +0000, GB wrote:

On 03/03/2021 11:40, Jimmy Stewart wrote:
On 03/03/2021 11:31, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 03 Mar 2021 11:26:44 +0000, Jimmy Stewart wrote:

Wife got phone call this moning fom Virgin media and the indian
caller in a busy call centre told her her computer was runing slow
and she could speed things up...wife didn't have her laptop on and
couldn't find her glasses so she hollered out the window to me in the
font garden to come in and speak to the wummin'....so I came in and
spoke to her....she asked me if I had my computer on and what was the
key to the right of CTRL....I told her FN and she said to push the
windows key to the right of that......at that point I twigged it was
a scam and hung up....she phoned back imediately and I hung up
again....I assumed it was a scam but the scarry thing was The wife
would have fell for it....what info were they after after they took
over the computer ?

Who knows ? But they probably make a cent or two for every infected
computer they can deliver to the bot networks.

Crypto mining was in vogue a while back.

is pushing the windows key one of the steps to give them control of
your computer ? ...


Thanks goodness you didn't push it. If you had pressed the windows key
and R at the same time, they could have taken over your soul. Mind you,
most changes would be an improvement.

oh, that is so unfairÂ*Â*Â* the way you treat jimbo


The man is ignorant.
The man doesn't care what you think brian ...

On 03/03/2021 11:40, Jimmy Stewart wrote:

is pushing the windows key one of the steps to give them control of your
computer ? ...

It opens up the Run window and allows you to run commands. Usually to a
system error reporter that is supposed to show thousands of errors in
error logs.
It is normal to have hundreds of 'errors' in the logs, they are not
dangerous errors, they will not cause any problems whatsoever. This is
just a prelude into you giving them remote access to your machine.

The scammers fall into 3 main camps:-

1) they just fiddle about in your computer, scrub the logs then claim to
have fixed the problem and bill you for the "Technical support"
2) They fiddle about, bill you and install some software that gives them
permanent access into your computer. At a later point your computer can
be turned into a workhorse for them, it can be turned into a remote
server for illegal content, music, movies or worse still child p orn.
Most people would never notice if a few spare Gb 'vanished' and they
lost 10% of their bandwidth. At best you may just be turned into a
computer for hire, Botnets are thousands of linked computers that are
hired out for dodgy purposes.
3) they just cryptolock your computer and charge you for the key.

I have baited a few to see what they do using a windows virtual machine
running inside linux. Mostly they just fiddle and try to charge. If I
refuse to pay they delete files. No biggie, the virtual machine is
disposable anyway.
Some install a payload.
Many open up remote access to let others in.
If I leave a text file on the desktop named "Passwords" it is amazing
how many people copy it.
I have only had one cryptolocker, just delete the VM and copy a new one.

Type 2 is really bad as kiddy content is traced back to your house, you
get raided and all your kit, every cd, dvd, computer, storage item etc
publicly removed into police vehicles. You may get away with it but to
the locals who witnessed the circus you will not be innocent you will
have "gotten off with it".

Andy

On 04/03/2021 07:24, andyW wrote:
On 03/03/2021 11:40, Jimmy Stewart wrote:

is pushing the windows key one of the steps to give them control of
your computer ? ...

It opens up the Run window and allows you to run commands. Usually to a
system error reporter that is supposed to show thousands of errors in
error logs.
It is normal to have hundreds of 'errors' in the logs, they are not
dangerous errors, they will not cause any problems whatsoever. This is
just a prelude into you giving them remote access to your machine.

The scammers fall into 3 main camps:-

1) they just fiddle about in your computer, scrub the logs then claim to
have fixed the problem and bill you for the "Technical support"
2) They fiddle about, bill you and install some software that gives them
permanent access into your computer. At a later point your computer can
be turned into a workhorse for them, it can be turned into a remote
server for illegal content, music, movies or worse still child p orn.
Most people would never notice if a few spare Gb 'vanished' and they
lost 10% of their bandwidth. At best you may just be turned into a
computer for hire, Botnets are thousands of linked computers that are
hired out for dodgy purposes.
3) they just cryptolock your computer and charge you for the key.

I have baited a few to see what they do using a windows virtual machine
running inside linux. Mostly they just fiddle and try to charge. If I
refuse to pay they delete files. No biggie, the virtual machine is
disposable anyway.
Some install a payload.
Many open up remote access to let others in.
If I leave a text file on the desktop named "Passwords" it is amazing
how many people copy it.
I have only had one cryptolocker, just delete the VM and copy a new one.

Type 2 is really bad as kiddy content is traced back to your house, you
get raided and all your kit, every cd, dvd, computer, storage item etc
publicly removed into police vehicles. You may get away with it but to
the locals who witnessed the circus you will not be innocent you will
have "gotten off with it".

Andy
WOW thanks for that explanation of what can happen......nasty things

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 10:27:43 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



There are people around who aren't very intelligent. In fact some really
stupid people seem to survive to a ripe old age.

And plenty more

Good to see that you felt personally addressed, you abysmally stupid senile
smartass!

williamwright wrote:
On 03/03/2021 15:45, tim... wrote:

what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says "your
computer is running slowly"

There are people around who aren't very intelligent. In fact some really
stupid people seem to survive to a ripe old age.

No comment! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

In article , Rod Speed
wrote:
williamwright wrote
tim... wrote

what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says "your
computer is running slowly"

There are people around who aren't very intelligent. In fact some
really stupid people seem to survive to a ripe old age.

And plenty more that know so little about technology that they don‘t have
a clue whether their service provider can work out if their computer is
running slow or not but are aware that a service provider can ring you
and tell you that there is a problem with the service being provided.

I know the proprietor of my ISP personally. I know he can interrogate my
router (which he provided). He also know my phone number, so he can ring me.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 03/03/2021 18:02, T i m wrote:
But we have the 'don't give your bank / credit card details / PIN /
password to anyone who phones*you* rule that should deal with a fair
percentage of the scammers. Then you have the 'don't give anyone
(unknown / untrusted) remote access to your PC' group? Then you get
the bogus delivery type.

ring ring "This is Lloyds bank here. Can I ask you some security
questions?"

I actually laughed out loud, and said "How stupid do you think I am?"

There was a pause. "What do you mean?"

I said "Well, you've got a pretty good idea who I am, as you 'phoned me.
But I have no idea whatsoever who you are."

The man from Lloyds (and it really was Lloyds) thought for a bit then
said "You're right you know, but nobody else has ever said that".

I gave him one bit of information only. The local branch where it was
convenient for me to collect a message. Which was of course not important.

Andy

"Vir Campestris" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2021 18:02, T i m wrote:
But we have the 'don't give your bank / credit card details / PIN /
password to anyone who phones*you* rule that should deal with a fair
percentage of the scammers. Then you have the 'don't give anyone
(unknown / untrusted) remote access to your PC' group? Then you get
the bogus delivery type.

ring ring "This is Lloyds bank here. Can I ask you some security
questions?"

I actually laughed out loud, and said "How stupid do you think I am?"

There was a pause. "What do you mean?"

I said "Well, you've got a pretty good idea who I am, as you 'phoned me.
But I have no idea whatsoever who you are."

The man from Lloyds (and it really was Lloyds) thought for a bit then said
"You're right you know, but nobody else has ever said that".

I got a similar result with the local BankWest which was at one time
owned by your HBOS before the financial crisis forced them to sell it.

They rang me to try to flog me some investment products and
asked for my PIN, basically to ensure that they were talking to
me and not just anyone who answered the phone and claimed
to be me. I pointed out the problem but couldnt get the droid
to see the problem. I rang management and even they couldnt
see the problem.

I gave him one bit of information only. The local branch where it was
convenient for me to collect a message. Which was of course not important.

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 00:53:26 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

snip cool stuff

Needless to say the whole process very quickly fell about in a heap when
presented with long technical docs - and the typists did not appreciate
that exact layout and choice of character really did matter on software
stuff.

Even to putting a period at the end of an email address if it happens
at the end of a sentence. ;-(

Or a mate, keen to get on with the first 'Teach yourself MSDOS'
magazine where it told readers to insert the floppy disk, and type

a:run me

The file was of course run_me(.bat) so the 'lesson' fell at the first
hurdle. ;-(

No amount of sending stuff back with comments could get something
even close to what you needed.

After much argument, they agreed that we could do the body of the
document ourselves, but they would produce the three front pages to the
corporate standard and affix them!

Bless. ;-)

Needless to say we could do a much more faithful implementation of their
corporate document standard with Wordperfect and feeding PostScript to a
HP LaserJet IV, than they could on their dedicated word processors!

Quite.

I think it's a shame and probably held back many less progressive
British companies in the world market (who may have only survived as
long as they had because if their size and how tightly they were
imbedded with MOD contracts)?

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 16:47:18 +0000, Vir Campestris
wrote:

On 03/03/2021 18:02, T i m wrote:
But we have the 'don't give your bank / credit card details / PIN /
password to anyone who phones*you* rule that should deal with a fair
percentage of the scammers. Then you have the 'don't give anyone
(unknown / untrusted) remote access to your PC' group? Then you get
the bogus delivery type.

ring ring "This is Lloyds bank here. Can I ask you some security
questions?"

I actually laughed out loud, and said "How stupid do you think I am?"

There was a pause. "What do you mean?"

I said "Well, you've got a pretty good idea who I am, as you 'phoned me.
But I have no idea whatsoever who you are."

Quite right.

The man from Lloyds (and it really was Lloyds) thought for a bit then
said "You're right you know, but nobody else has ever said that".

Doh! I've done similar and have actually traded details a bit at a
time (being very aware / conscious not to give them anything they
might not have come across from a database etc).

I gave him one bit of information only. The local branch where it was
convenient for me to collect a message. Which was of course not important.

Don't some places have an agreed password they give you, after you
have given them sufficient to prove that you are who they wanted you
to be?

Cheers, T i m

On 04/03/2021 20:07, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 00:53:26 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

snip cool stuff

Needless to say the whole process very quickly fell about in a heap when
presented with long technical docs - and the typists did not appreciate
that exact layout and choice of character really did matter on software
stuff.

Even to putting a period at the end of an email address if it happens
at the end of a sentence. ;-(

Or a mate, keen to get on with the first 'Teach yourself MSDOS'
magazine where it told readers to insert the floppy disk, and type

a:run me

The file was of course run_me(.bat) so the 'lesson' fell at the first
hurdle. ;-(

Yup, the first doc I did that broke tech pubs was a CORAL 66 coding
standard. Just trying to get them to set out code examples in a non
proportional font, and to understand that the indentation of our
"paragraphs" really did need to be *exactly* as it was shown, even
though it was not "proper typographic layout", and no, all those
semi-colons were not a mistake!

No amount of sending stuff back with comments could get something
even close to what you needed.

After much argument, they agreed that we could do the body of the
document ourselves, but they would produce the three front pages to the
corporate standard and affix them!

Bless. ;-)

Needless to say we could do a much more faithful implementation of their
corporate document standard with Wordperfect and feeding PostScript to a
HP LaserJet IV, than they could on their dedicated word processors!

Quite.

Although they did whinge that we had used the wrong sized font on our
docs, until we got out a ruler and demonstrated that ours was actually
the 12pt they specified, and theirs was only 11 because their printer
was scaling incorrectly!

I think it's a shame and probably held back many less progressive
British companies in the world market (who may have only survived as
long as they had because if their size and how tightly they were
imbedded with MOD contracts)?

Well in this particular case, but they had several things in their
favour. Firstly their hardware (i.e. the radio kit) was very good kit
that was widely deployed and trusted. Secondly the competition in many
cases made the less progressive British lot look positively advanced[1],
and lastly they did (kind of) have a working example of the complete
system that the customer wanted to buy.

[1] A certain Italian maker of HF radios springs to mind. They had an
interface spec to write their radio management software against. It was
not complicated - a command response protocol using ARINC 429 serial
bus. Two 32 command words, and two 32 bit responses. The protocol
sequence is: we send command word 1, you reply with status word 1, we
send command word 2, you reply with status word 2. Here is the bit
format of all the words, and here is your ARINC bus address. Does that
sound difficult?

So there implementation: On power up, listen to the bus until you hear a
command word, assume that is for you and adopt the destination address
on it, and assume that is yours from now on. Wait for command word 1 and
do nothing. Wait for command word 2 and reply with status words 1 and 2
in sequence.

So the result was, after powered up it would grab the address for some
other peripheral, misinterpret the contents of a message not intended
for it, and then trample over the actual target devices responses, while
ignoring any we wanted it to receive!

We did highlight that this did not match the spec, and that they had a
fixed price contract to deliver to that spec. Could they please fix the
software ASAP? Apparently, no can do. It's the middle of summer and the
whole factory shuts down for a 6 weeks. Then after that they
traditionally go on strike for another month or so while the weather is
still good!

(in the end we had to "accommodate" it at the controller end - by making
sure that the first message sent on that bus was a HF radio one, so it
got the right address, and use a different protocol from all the other
devices!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 02:41:29 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

The file was of course run_me(.bat) so the 'lesson' fell at the first
hurdle. ;-(

Yup, the first doc I did that broke tech pubs was a CORAL 66 coding
standard. Just trying to get them to set out code examples in a non
proportional font, and to understand that the indentation of our
"paragraphs" really did need to be *exactly* as it was shown, even
though it was not "proper typographic layout", and no, all those
semi-colons were not a mistake!

Tell me about it. I'm still trying to deal with the various .yaml
files on Home Assistant / ESP32. ;-(

snip.

Although they did whinge that we had used the wrong sized font on our
docs, until we got out a ruler and demonstrated that ours was actually
the 12pt they specified, and theirs was only 11 because their printer
was scaling incorrectly!

Hehe. Doh!

I think it's a shame and probably held back many less progressive
British companies in the world market (who may have only survived as
long as they had because if their size and how tightly they were
imbedded with MOD contracts)?

Well in this particular case, but they had several things in their
favour. Firstly their hardware (i.e. the radio kit) was very good kit
that was widely deployed and trusted.

I remember the GEC / Marconi PCB's being quite nice (along with STC)
on the BT PCM / TDM kit I was bench repairing for BT in those days. It
was made for BT by several manufacturers, the worst being Plessy
because they used SRBP PCBs and with any modules that carried anything
heavy (Txfmrs / filters), the PCBs would often end up broken /
cracked. Remove the component(s), cut a Paxoline 'patch' to strengthen
the broken area, mark the outline on the PCB, abrade the area and the
back of patch., apply two part epoxy and glue patch on board. Later,
re drill component holes and re-fit / solder the components and repair
any broken tracks with BTC. Too many Plessy boards in your batch would
slow the batch but I was told by the union to 'slow down' as all this
stuff had agreed times and I was mucking it up. ;-(

So, given I couldn't work 'slower' I sneaked in several private
projects. I still have one here, a 'heating' indicator LED on my (BT,
fell into my bag when I left) Weller soldering station that was a
small rectified PSU (off the 24V AC transformer) that drove a led on
when the output voltage was depressed. It did a few things, it told
you when it was 'ready' from turn on (not really an issue at work as
it was on all day), it gave you an idea if it was still coping when
heating heavier joints and if the Curie tip / switch was still
working.

Secondly the competition in many
cases made the less progressive British lot look positively advanced[1],
and lastly they did (kind of) have a working example of the complete
system that the customer wanted to buy.

Yeah, I think once they had some gear working it was generally 'good'.
Visions of some very knowledgeable / Old Skool design Engineers in
there somewhere.

[1] A certain Italian maker of HF radios springs to mind. They had an
interface spec to write their radio management software against. It was
not complicated - a command response protocol using ARINC 429 serial
bus. Two 32 command words, and two 32 bit responses. The protocol
sequence is: we send command word 1, you reply with status word 1, we
send command word 2, you reply with status word 2. Here is the bit
format of all the words, and here is your ARINC bus address. Does that
sound difficult?

Nope, a pretty straightforward Enc / Ack protocol?

So there implementation: On power up, listen to the bus until you hear a
command word, assume that is for you and adopt the destination address
on it, and assume that is yours from now on. Wait for command word 1 and
do nothing. Wait for command word 2 and reply with status words 1 and 2
in sequence.

Sounds a bit like a broken CSMA/CD? ;-)

So the result was, after powered up it would grab the address for some
other peripheral, misinterpret the contents of a message not intended
for it, and then trample over the actual target devices responses, while
ignoring any we wanted it to receive!

Gawd.

We did highlight that this did not match the spec, and that they had a
fixed price contract to deliver to that spec. Could they please fix the
software ASAP? Apparently, no can do.

I was there a few times with Modem manufacturers and their
interpretations of the CCITT 'Red books' (I think it was at the time)
'recommendations'. ;-(

It's the middle of summer and the
whole factory shuts down for a 6 weeks.

Yeah, that was something a mate had to come to terms with when he
moved out there from AWE Aldermaston.

Then after that they
traditionally go on strike for another month or so while the weather is
still good!

Yup. When he came back for a visit and was a passenger with me in the
car ... and I stopped at some amber lights he looked frightened.
Apparently, in Italy (esp the South?) you *never* stopped on the amber
and so he was bracing for someone to hit us in the rear!

(in the end we had to "accommodate" it at the controller end - by making
sure that the first message sent on that bus was a HF radio one, so it
got the right address, and use a different protocol from all the other
devices!)

That sounds like running MQTT over a Zigbee HA link as it's supposed
to provide a stronger level of ETE comms but I really haven't worked
out yet how / when / why it comes in? ;-(

Cheers, T i m

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2021 16:34, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2021 15:45, tim... wrote:
what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says "your
computer is running slowly"

(i) mostly unintelligent people
(ii) or supposedly intelligent people who haven't a clue how *anything*
works *at all* (C.f. 'Art Students').

How are they supposed to know this?

do they have a camera installed in your house watching you, or
something?

Don't need that. traffic analysis can give you a clue actually.

but that's a fault within their network

No.
If you car is travelling slow as evinced by e.g. a GPS signal phoning
home, it might be the car or it might be the traffic.

or it could be that I am just driving slower

On 05/03/2021 12:38, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2021 16:34, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2021 15:45, tim... wrote:
what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says
"your computer is running slowly"

(i) mostly unintelligent people
(ii) or supposedly intelligent people who haven't a clue how
*anything* works *at all* (C.f. 'Art Students').

How are they supposed to know this?

do they have a camera installed in your house watching you, or
something?

Don't need that. traffic analysis can give you a clue actually.

but that's a fault within their network

No.
If you car is travelling slow as evinced by e.g. a GPS signal phoning
home, it might be the car or it might be the traffic.

or it could be that I am just driving slower



That would be 'the car'

--
€œIt is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of
intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is
futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every
criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
power-directed system of thought.€�
Sir Roger Scruton

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 05/03/2021 12:38, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2021 16:34, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2021 15:45, tim... wrote:
what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says
"your computer is running slowly"

(i) mostly unintelligent people
(ii) or supposedly intelligent people who haven't a clue how
*anything* works *at all* (C.f. 'Art Students').

How are they supposed to know this?

do they have a camera installed in your house watching you, or
something?

Don't need that. traffic analysis can give you a clue actually.

but that's a fault within their network

No.
If you car is travelling slow as evinced by e.g. a GPS signal phoning
home, it might be the car or it might be the traffic.

or it could be that I am just driving slower



That would be 'the car'

yes

but that's a user choice not something wrong with the car

that's my point

just because you see little activity on the network from me, doesn't mean
that my computer is misbehaving

it could simply be that I am not using it very much

"tim..." wrote in message
...


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 05/03/2021 12:38, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2021 16:34, tim... wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2021 15:45, tim... wrote:
what sort of intelligent person believes random caller that says
"your computer is running slowly"

(i) mostly unintelligent people
(ii) or supposedly intelligent people who haven't a clue how
*anything* works *at all* (C.f. 'Art Students').

How are they supposed to know this?

do they have a camera installed in your house watching you, or
something?

Don't need that. traffic analysis can give you a clue actually.

but that's a fault within their network

No.
If you car is travelling slow as evinced by e.g. a GPS signal phoning
home, it might be the car or it might be the traffic.

or it could be that I am just driving slower



That would be 'the car'

yes

but that's a user choice not something wrong with the car

that's my point

just because you see little activity on the network from me, doesn't mean
that my computer is misbehaving

it could simply be that I am not using it very much

But while it can see the volume used, it can also see
the speed at which that happens with downloads etc
and that can tell you if the computer is running slow.

On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 04:28:27 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: