OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...very-of-UK-SMR

Rolls Royce, who uniquely do not employ Art Students to design power
stations, have completed feasibility studies on what will be if it comes
to pass, the first reactor design in Britain to have been designed by
engineers for low cost mass production, using no new or exciting
technology, just doing well known stuff better and cheaper.

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as
well as potential hydrogen generation.

The cost estimates are encouraging.

3-4 times cheaper on electricity than any renewable, and only twice the
current price of fossil on aviation fuel.

And capital investment in reach of private finance opening the way to
build power stations for the likes of pension fund investors without
needing government financial support.



--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...-track-for-203
0-delivery-of-UK-SMR

Rolls Royce, who uniquely do not employ Art Students to design power
stations, have completed feasibility studies on what will be if it
comes to pass, the first reactor design in Britain to have been
designed by engineers for low cost mass production, using no new or
exciting technology, just doing well known stuff better and cheaper.

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as
well as potential hydrogen generation.

The cost estimates are encouraging.

3-4 times cheaper on electricity than any renewable, and only twice the
current price of fossil on aviation fuel.

And capital investment in reach of private finance opening the way to
build power stations for the likes of pension fund investors without
needing government financial support.

I'm rather taken with the seismic isolation concept, 1.5 acre concrete
raft on a bed of pebbles!

Cooling water has always seemed to be an issue for siting nuclear power.
Are these small enough to manage with towers and a pond?

--
Tim Lamb

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 08:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...very-of-UK-SMR


Rolls Royce, who uniquely do not employ Art Students to design power
stations, have completed feasibility studies on what will be if it comes
to pass, the first reactor design in Britain to have been designed by
engineers for low cost mass production,Â* using no new or exciting
technology, just doing well known stuff better and cheaper.

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as
well as potential hydrogen generation.

The cost estimates are encouraging.

3-4 times cheaper on electricity than any renewable, and only twice the
current price of fossil on aviation fuel.

And capital investment in reach of private finance opening the way to
build power stations for the likes of pension fund investors without
needing government financial support.




I was taken with his choice of words: "we believe that nuclear power can
really mushroom". :)

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 09:12, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...-track-for-203
0-delivery-of-UK-SMR

Rolls Royce, who uniquely do not employ Art Students to design power
stations, have completed feasibility studies on what will be if it
comes to pass, the first reactor design in Britain to have been
designed by engineers for low cost mass production,Â* using no new or
exciting technology, just doing well known stuff better and cheaper.

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as
well as potential hydrogen generation.

The cost estimates are encouraging.

3-4 times cheaper on electricity than any renewable, and only twice
the current price of fossil on aviation fuel.

And capital investment in reach of private finance opening the way to
build power stations for the likes of pension fund investors without
needing government financial support.

I'm rather taken with the seismic isolation concept, 1.5 acre concrete
raft on a bed of pebbles!

Cooling water has always seemed to be an issue for siting nuclear power.
Are these small enough to manage with towers and a pond?

I think nukes always were. Seawater is just cheaper.

lets face it if a 1.2GW CCGT can get away with a cooling tower, a 46MW
SMR should be able to.

And of course other options exist. Low grade heat still has value. Think
of undersoil heating for greenhouses nearby.

And they are of course linking it to desalination as well - a nuclear
power station using seawater to cool it and evaporating and condensing
fresh water is a handy thing to have.




--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:54:39 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

I was taken with his choice of words: "we believe that nuclear power can
really mushroom". :)

;-)

And I wonder how many would want one ITBY, even compared with a solar
farm, wind turbine(s) or a biofuel / gas powered station?

Obviously Turnip would be happy with it in his BY ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 12/02/2021 09:12, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...-track-for-203
0-delivery-of-UK-SMR

Rolls Royce, who uniquely do not employ Art Students to design power
stations, have completed feasibility studies on what will be if it
comes to pass, the first reactor design in Britain to have been
designed by engineers for low cost mass production, using no new or
exciting technology, just doing well known stuff better and cheaper.

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as
well as potential hydrogen generation.

The cost estimates are encouraging.

3-4 times cheaper on electricity than any renewable, and only twice
the current price of fossil on aviation fuel.

And capital investment in reach of private finance opening the way to
build power stations for the likes of pension fund investors without
needing government financial support.

I'm rather taken with the seismic isolation concept, 1.5 acre concrete
raft on a bed of pebbles!

Cooling water has always seemed to be an issue for siting nuclear
power. Are these small enough to manage with towers and a pond?

I think nukes always were. Seawater is just cheaper.

But it can cause massive corrosion problems


-

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

Jethro_uk wrote:

Especially the possibility for desalination - plonk a few of these around
the parts of the world that need water and consider the electricity a
handy by product

Isn't the electricity /used/ to do the desalination?

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 11:34, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:24:42 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Jethro_uk wrote:

Especially the possibility for desalination - plonk a few of these
around the parts of the world that need water and consider the
electricity a handy by product

Isn't the electricity /used/ to do the desalination?

Humour fail :)

Although, come to think of it, no. Well, not necessarily.

Nuclear reactor. Shedloads of serious heat (i.e. 100C) might as well
just distil the seawater. Unless you want to extract metals by
electrolysis I guess ?

It is possible to reclaim desert (or so I have been told) if you can
irrigate and foliate enough area to start releasing water. Although it
has to be *very* big.


AIUI the mainly use reverse osmosis, not distilation.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 08:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...very-of-UK-SMR


Rolls Royce, who uniquely do not employ Art Students to design power
stations, have completed feasibility studies on what will be if it comes
to pass, the first reactor design in Britain to have been designed by
engineers for low cost mass production,Â* using no new or exciting
technology, just doing well known stuff better and cheaper.

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as
well as potential hydrogen generation.


You've come around to the idea of hydrogen generation?

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 11:02, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 12/02/2021 09:12, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...-track-for-203
0-delivery-of-UK-SMR

Rolls Royce, who uniquely do not employ Art Students to design power
stations, have completed feasibility studies on what will be if it
comes to pass, the first reactor design in Britain to have been
designed by engineers for low cost mass production, using no new or
exciting technology, just doing well known stuff better and cheaper.

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as
well as potential hydrogen generation.

The cost estimates are encouraging.

3-4 times cheaper on electricity than any renewable, and only twice
the current price of fossil on aviation fuel.

And capital investment in reach of private finance opening the way to
build power stations for the likes of pension fund investors without
needing government financial support.

I'm rather taken with the seismic isolation concept, 1.5 acre concrete
raft on a bed of pebbles!

Cooling water has always seemed to be an issue for siting nuclear
power. Are these small enough to manage with towers and a pond?

I think nukes always were. Seawater is just cheaper.

But it can cause massive corrosion problems

But would only need to pass through the seawater pipes, pumps and
heat-exchangers, with a duty, standby and backup arrangement. As
corrosion takes effect, one can be taken out of service for
replacement/refurbishment, still leaving a duty and standby.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 10:56:20 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:54:39 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

I was taken with his choice of words: "we believe that nuclear power can
really mushroom". :)

;-)

And I wonder how many would want one ITBY, even compared with a solar
farm, wind turbine(s) or a biofuel / gas powered station?


I've got my order in for one. Should power this locality nicely.
Just need a few mods. Not enough room for solar farm, wind turbines
and I don't want more carbons going into the atmosphere - defeats the
objective.


--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 11:02, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 12/02/2021 09:12, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...-track-for-203
0-delivery-of-UK-SMR

Rolls Royce, who uniquely do not employ Art Students to design power
stations, have completed feasibility studies on what will be if it
comes to pass, the first reactor design in Britain to have been
designed by engineers for low cost mass production, using no new or
exciting technology, just doing well known stuff better and cheaper.

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as
well as potential hydrogen generation.

The cost estimates are encouraging.

3-4 times cheaper on electricity than any renewable, and only twice
the current price of fossil on aviation fuel.

And capital investment in reach of private finance opening the way to
build power stations for the likes of pension fund investors without
needing government financial support.

I'm rather taken with the seismic isolation concept, 1.5 acre concrete
raft on a bed of pebbles!

Cooling water has always seemed to be an issue for siting nuclear
power. Are these small enough to manage with towers and a pond?

I think nukes always were. Seawater is just cheaper.

But it can cause massive corrosion problems

Mostly that doesn't seem to have been a problem. After all seawater
cooling has been used on steamships since whenever

filters blocked with seaweed seems to be more common



-



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 11:24, Andy Burns wrote:
Jethro_uk wrote:

Especially the possibility for desalination - plonk a few of these around
the parts of the world that need water and consider the electricity a
handy by product

Isn't the electricity /used/ to do the desalination?

Actually no.

the waste heat does that.

Boil some seawater, channel the steam through a condenser (cooled by
more seawater) and voilÃ*! - fresh water

You would probably build it just for that, since steam is what comes out
of a PWR.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 11:34, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:24:42 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Jethro_uk wrote:

Especially the possibility for desalination - plonk a few of these
around the parts of the world that need water and consider the
electricity a handy by product

Isn't the electricity /used/ to do the desalination?

Humour fail :)

Although, come to think of it, no. Well, not necessarily.

Nuclear reactor. Shedloads of serious heat (i.e. 100C) might as well
just distil the seawater. Unless you want to extract metals by
electrolysis I guess ?

It is possible to reclaim desert (or so I have been told) if you can
irrigate and foliate enough area to start releasing water. Although it
has to be *very* big.

Most deserts I have known will grow anything as long as you add water.


--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

ۥ Confucius

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 12:01, Pancho wrote:
On 12/02/2021 08:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...very-of-UK-SMR


Rolls Royce, who uniquely do not employ Art Students to design power
stations, have completed feasibility studies on what will be if it
comes to pass, the first reactor design in Britain to have been
designed by engineers for low cost mass production,Â* using no new or
exciting technology, just doing well known stuff better and cheaper.

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as
well as potential hydrogen generation.


You've come around to the idea of hydrogen generation?

No, I think it is a **** idea. But its fashionable among Art Students
Gimme synJet any day run my car and my central heating on that.


--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

ۥ Confucius

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 12:45, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 08:17:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as
well as potential hydrogen generation

You mean like what I was suggesting a few days ago ?

:)

Or something else ?


I only mentioned it to keep you happy. Same as RR did.
The nuclear industry is playing to the green gallery with cheap zero
carbon electricity and 'hydrogen'.

The fact is that if RR can make the prices they claim and the government
doesn't get NutNutzed, they will wipe the floor with renewables.


--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 14:16, Tim Streater wrote:
On 12 Feb 2021 at 10:56:20 GMT, T r o l l wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:54:39 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

I was taken with his choice of words: "we believe that nuclear power can
really mushroom". :)

;-)

And I wonder how many would want one ITBY, even compared with a solar
farm, wind turbine(s) or a biofuel / gas powered station?

Anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together.

Absolutely. We've got ugly as **** windmills and solar farms and a
nuclear power station all within 50 miles and the only one I'd live near
is Sizewell B. Quiet, invisible except from the beach, and safer than
living near a wind turbine


Solar farm - doesn't work much in winter, or at night all year round.
Wind turbine - ****ing noisy if you're near it, doesn't produce much and often
none at all.
Others - no gas to this village.




--
In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

- George Orwell

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 11:02, charles wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
On 12/02/2021 09:12, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...-track-for-203
0-delivery-of-UK-SMR

Rolls Royce, who uniquely do not employ Art Students to design power
stations, have completed feasibility studies on what will be if it
comes to pass, the first reactor design in Britain to have been
designed by engineers for low cost mass production, using no new or
exciting technology, just doing well known stuff better and cheaper.

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as
well as potential hydrogen generation.

The cost estimates are encouraging.

3-4 times cheaper on electricity than any renewable, and only twice
the current price of fossil on aviation fuel.

And capital investment in reach of private finance opening the way to
build power stations for the likes of pension fund investors without
needing government financial support.

I'm rather taken with the seismic isolation concept, 1.5 acre concrete
raft on a bed of pebbles!

Cooling water has always seemed to be an issue for siting nuclear
power. Are these small enough to manage with towers and a pond?

I think nukes always were. Seawater is just cheaper.

But it can cause massive corrosion problems

Which is why titanium has been the preferred material for a long time.
Actually the bigger problem is the mussels and other stuff that likes to
live inside the tubes.

But SMRs make particular sense when located near load centres. Obviously
that includes some coastal sites, but many more decent sized towns are
located on rivers.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 10:56, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:54:39 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

I was taken with his choice of words: "we believe that nuclear power can
really mushroom". :)

;-)

And I wonder how many would want one ITBY, even compared with a solar
farm, wind turbine(s) or a biofuel / gas powered station?

Obviously Turnip would be happy with it in his BY ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

We were the first country with large nuclear plant close to urban
centres, with Hartlepool and Heysham. Less harmful than the RTZ smelter
at Avonmouth, which was still operating into the 70's, until medics
started looking at lead levels in children in Shirehampton.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 14:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2021 11:24, Andy Burns wrote:
Jethro_uk wrote:

Especially the possibility for desalination - plonk a few of these
around
the parts of the world that need water and consider the electricity a
handy by product

Isn't the electricity /used/ to do the desalination?

Actually no.

the waste heat does that.

Boil some seawater, channel the steam through a condenser (cooled by
more seawater) and voilÃ*! - fresh water

You would probably build it just for that, since steam is what comes out
of a PWR.

I havn't seen any sums for that. IIRC reverse osmosis is remarkably
low-energy and low capital cost compared to distillation.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

In article , T i m
scribeth thus
On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:54:39 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

I was taken with his choice of words: "we believe that nuclear power can
really mushroom". :)

;-)

And I wonder how many would want one ITBY, even compared with a solar
farm, wind turbine(s) or a biofuel / gas powered station?

Obviously Turnip would be happy with it in his BY ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m


We've got the River Cam here, do fine in my backyard perhaps i can
"mind" it for them:)

Got a new railway coming too, all good backyard stuff!
--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
On 12/02/2021 12:45, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 08:17:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as
well as potential hydrogen generation

You mean like what I was suggesting a few days ago ?

:)

Or something else ?


I only mentioned it to keep you happy. Same as RR did.
The nuclear industry is playing to the green gallery with cheap zero
carbon electricity and 'hydrogen'.

The fact is that if RR can make the prices they claim and the government
doesn't get NutNutzed, they will wipe the floor with renewables.



Indeed! all seems too good to be true, lets hope the other f-Art
students known as politicos can see this is a very good idea:)

--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 12/02/2021 11:34, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 11:24:42 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Jethro_uk wrote:

Especially the possibility for desalination - plonk a few of these
around the parts of the world that need water and consider the
electricity a handy by product

Isn't the electricity /used/ to do the desalination?

Humour fail :)

Although, come to think of it, no. Well, not necessarily.

Nuclear reactor. Shedloads of serious heat (i.e. 100C) might as well
just distil the seawater. Unless you want to extract metals by
electrolysis I guess ?

It is possible to reclaim desert (or so I have been told) if you can
irrigate and foliate enough area to start releasing water. Although it
has to be *very* big.

Most deserts I have known will grow anything as long as you add water.

And hydroponics just need something for the roots to
grow in, even scoria and fibreglass insulation work fine.

Lonely Obnoxious Cantankerous Auto-contradicting Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!
 

On Sat, 13 Feb 2021 08:50:15 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile cretin's latest troll**** unread

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:50:05 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 12/02/2021 14:16, Tim Streater wrote:
On 12 Feb 2021 at 10:56:20 GMT, T r o l l wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:54:39 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

I was taken with his choice of words: "we believe that nuclear power can
really mushroom". :)

;-)

And I wonder how many would want one ITBY, even compared with a solar
farm, wind turbine(s) or a biofuel / gas powered station?

Anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together.

Oh dear, the literal left brainer has been whooshed again. ;-(

Absolutely. We've got ugly as **** windmillsand solar farms and a
nuclear power station all within 50 miles and the only one I'd live near
is Sizewell B.

Of course you would.

Quiet, invisible except from the beach, and safer than
living near a wind turbine

Safer than living as near a nuke?


Solar farm - doesn't work much in winter, or at night all year round.

But could with additional storage and doesn't melt down and pollute
the surrounding environment for thousands of years:

Wind turbine - ****ing noisy if you're near it, doesn't produce much and often
none at all.

See above re storage and don't melt down and pollute the surrounding
environment for thousands of years:

Others - no gas to this village.

Ah, an ideal place to put a nuke then, especially for everyone else.

Cheers, T i m

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 20:57:35 +0000, newshound
wrote:

On 12/02/2021 10:56, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:54:39 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

I was taken with his choice of words: "we believe that nuclear power can
really mushroom". :)

;-)

And I wonder how many would want one ITBY, even compared with a solar
farm, wind turbine(s) or a biofuel / gas powered station?

Obviously Turnip would be happy with it in his BY ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

We were the first country with large nuclear plant close to urban
centres, with Hartlepool and Heysham. Less harmful than the RTZ smelter
at Avonmouth, which was still operating into the 70's, until medics
started looking at lead levels in children in Shirehampton.

So, you wouldn't mind one IYBY then?

Cheers, T i m

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 22:15, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 20:57:35 +0000, newshound
wrote:

On 12/02/2021 10:56, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:54:39 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

I was taken with his choice of words: "we believe that nuclear power can
really mushroom". :)

;-)

And I wonder how many would want one ITBY, even compared with a solar
farm, wind turbine(s) or a biofuel / gas powered station?

Obviously Turnip would be happy with it in his BY ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

We were the first country with large nuclear plant close to urban
centres, with Hartlepool and Heysham. Less harmful than the RTZ smelter
at Avonmouth, which was still operating into the 70's, until medics
started looking at lead levels in children in Shirehampton.

So, you wouldn't mind one IYBY then?

Cheers, T i m

Not in the least. I spent nearly 20 years with two dominating the view
out of my office window.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 22:14, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:50:05 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 12/02/2021 14:16, Tim Streater wrote:
On 12 Feb 2021 at 10:56:20 GMT, T r o l l wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:54:39 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

I was taken with his choice of words: "we believe that nuclear power can
really mushroom". :)

;-)

And I wonder how many would want one ITBY, even compared with a solar
farm, wind turbine(s) or a biofuel / gas powered station?

Anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together.

Oh dear, the literal left brainer has been whooshed again. ;-(

Does that mean you don't understand the question posed?

Absolutely. We've got ugly as **** windmillsand solar farms and a
nuclear power station all within 50 miles and the only one I'd live near
is Sizewell B.

Of course you would.

As would many others.

Quiet, invisible except from the beach, and safer than
living near a wind turbine

Safer than living as near a nuke?

Given the number killed or injured it's very likely.

Solar farm - doesn't work much in winter, or at night all year round.

But could with additional storage and doesn't melt down and pollute
the surrounding environment for thousands of years:

What additional storage? More batteries consuming the rare element
Lithium? Or did you have some other storagein mind?

Wind turbine - ****ing noisy if you're near it, doesn't produce much and often
none at all.

See above re storage and don't melt down and pollute the surrounding
environment for thousands of years:

They do fail in spectacular ways. Only if you place large nukes near
oceans with a history of tsunamis or known safety flaws.

Others - no gas to this village.

Ah, an ideal place to put a nuke then, especially for everyone else.

Clean energy, why not. Certainly less CO2 than all your 'green' energy
and far more reliable. No need to wait for the sun to rise and the wind
to blow.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 21:00, newshound wrote:
On 12/02/2021 14:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2021 11:24, Andy Burns wrote:
Jethro_uk wrote:

Especially the possibility for desalination - plonk a few of these
around
the parts of the world that need water and consider the electricity a
handy by product

Isn't the electricity /used/ to do the desalination?

Actually no.

the waste heat does that.

Boil some seawater, channel the steam through a condenser (cooled by
more seawater) and voilÃ*! - fresh water

You would probably build it just for that, since steam is what comes
out of a PWR.

I havn't seen any sums for that. IIRC reverse osmosis is remarkably
low-energy and low capital cost compared to distillation.

You might think so, but if you have oodles of low grade heat it might
become cost effective.

I heard it was a high energy process. Either way lower than distillation.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

The number of years this has been talked about I was surprised it was still
so far in the future. Chances are I might not be here to see it.
I'll be 80 dribbling and thinking its 1956 probably.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/A...-track-for-203
0-delivery-of-UK-SMR

Rolls Royce, who uniquely do not employ Art Students to design power
stations, have completed feasibility studies on what will be if it comes
to pass, the first reactor design in Britain to have been designed by
engineers for low cost mass production, using no new or exciting
technology, just doing well known stuff better and cheaper.

interestingly they address the issue of synthetic hydrocarbon fuel as well
as potential hydrogen generation.

The cost estimates are encouraging.

3-4 times cheaper on electricity than any renewable, and only twice the
current price of fossil on aviation fuel.

And capital investment in reach of private finance opening the way to
build power stations for the likes of pension fund investors without
needing government financial support.

I'm rather taken with the seismic isolation concept, 1.5 acre concrete
raft on a bed of pebbles!

Cooling water has always seemed to be an issue for siting nuclear power.
Are these small enough to manage with towers and a pond?

--
Tim Lamb

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 23:55, Fredxx wrote:
On 12/02/2021 22:14, T i m wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2021 14:16, Tim Streater wrote:
On 12 Feb 2021 at 10:56:20 GMT, T r o l l wrote:
GB wrote:

snip

I was taken with his choice of words: "we believe that nuclear power can
really mushroom". :)

And I wonder how many would want one ITBY, even compared with a solar
farm, wind turbine(s) or a biofuel / gas powered station?

Absolutely. We've got ugly as **** windmills and solar farms and a
nuclear power station all within 50 miles and the only one I'd live near
is Sizewell B.

Of course you would.

As would many others.

Quiet, invisible except from the beach, and safer than
living near a wind turbine

Safer than living as near a nuke?

Given the number killed or injured it's very likely.

Solar farm - doesn't work much in winter, or at night all year round.

But could with additional storage and doesn't melt down and pollute
the surrounding environment for thousands of years:

What additional storage? More batteries consuming the rare element
Lithium? Or did you have some other storagein mind?

Wind turbine - ****ing noisy if you're near it, doesn't produce much and often
none at all.

See above re storage and don't melt down and pollute the surrounding
environment for thousands of years:

They do fail in spectacular ways. Only if you place large nukes near
oceans with a history of tsunamis or known safety flaws.

Others - no gas to this village.

Ah, an ideal place to put a nuke then, especially for everyone else.

Clean energy, why not. Certainly less CO2 than all your 'green' energy
and far more reliable. No need to wait for the sun to rise and the wind
to blow.

T i m is so good at assessing risks, he rode a motorcycle and went
fanatical-vegan.

--
Spike

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 21:40, tony sayer wrote:
In article , T i m
scribeth thus
On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 09:54:39 +0000, GB
wrote:

snip

I was taken with his choice of words: "we believe that nuclear power can
really mushroom". :)

;-)

And I wonder how many would want one ITBY, even compared with a solar
farm, wind turbine(s) or a biofuel / gas powered station?

Obviously Turnip would be happy with it in his BY ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m


We've got the River Cam here, do fine in my backyard perhaps i can
"mind" it for them:)

Got a new railway coming too, all good backyard stuff!

I cant see any reason why *anyone* would object, frankly.

3MI was bang in the middle of habited area and no pone died or was even
evacuated.

No one died or needed to be evacuated at Fukushima - ir was all green
inspired panic.


--
€œA leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
€œWe did this ourselves.€�

ۥ Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 12/02/2021 23:57, Fredxx wrote:
On 12/02/2021 21:00, newshound wrote:
On 12/02/2021 14:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2021 11:24, Andy Burns wrote:
Jethro_uk wrote:

Especially the possibility for desalination - plonk a few of these
around
the parts of the world that need water and consider the electricity a
handy by product

Isn't the electricity /used/ to do the desalination?

Actually no.

the waste heat does that.

Boil some seawater, channel the steam through a condenser (cooled by
more seawater) and voilÃ*! - fresh water

You would probably build it just for that, since steam is what comes
out of a PWR.

I havn't seen any sums for that. IIRC reverse osmosis is remarkably
low-energy and low capital cost compared to distillation.

You might think so, but if you have oodles of low grade heat it might
become cost effective.

I heard it was a high energy process. Either way lower than distillation.

Sorry, just can't see it. Not sure I can even see a large scale solar
still with photovoltaic pumps working for coastal deserts. Otherwise
someone would be doing it.

Your low grade heat from a power station operated in the usual way isn't
going to evaporate water quickly. Then you need massive condensers to
collect it, pumping seawater through them to keep them cool with the
associated pumping and pipe friction losses.

In a combined electricity/desalination plant it *might* make sense to
take bled steam from the HP turbine outlet to do the evaporating, this
still has a decent energy density so your plant volume (and hence
capital cost) is lower for a given throughput.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 13/02/2021 09:02, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
The number of years this has been talked about I was surprised it was still
so far in the future. Chances are I might not be here to see it.
I'll be 80 dribbling and thinking its 1956 probably.

I presume that you chose 1956 deliberately, for Calder Hall?

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 13/02/2021 10:43, newshound wrote:
Sorry, just can't see it. Not sure I can even see a large scale solar
still with photovoltaic pumps working for coastal deserts. Otherwise
someone would be doing it.

Israelis and IIRC Kuwait are. Doing fresh water desalination

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination

Osmosis seems to be the most energy efficient of the driven sort, but in
factt you can do it with no energy at all



Your low grade heat from a power station operated in the usual way isn't
going to evaporate water quickly. Then you need massive condensers to
collect it, pumping seawater through them to keep them cool with the
associated pumping and pipe friction losses.

In the desert you dont even need the heat to do the evaporation.


In a combined electricity/desalination plant it *might* make sense to
take bled steam from the HP turbine outlet to do the evaporating, this
still has a decent energy density so your plant volume (and hence
capital cost) is lower for a given throughput.

*shrug* one can use off peak heat. Its an economic decision not a
technical one



--
€œThe fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

- Bertrand Russell

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 22:58:01 +0000, newshound
wrote:

snip

We were the first country with large nuclear plant close to urban
centres, with Hartlepool and Heysham. Less harmful than the RTZ smelter
at Avonmouth, which was still operating into the 70's, until medics
started looking at lead levels in children in Shirehampton.

So, you wouldn't mind one IYBY then?


Not in the least. I spent nearly 20 years with two dominating the view
out of my office window.

And you enjoy the locally caught fish? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 13/02/2021 10:43, newshound wrote:
On 12/02/2021 23:57, Fredxx wrote:
On 12/02/2021 21:00, newshound wrote:
On 12/02/2021 14:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2021 11:24, Andy Burns wrote:
Jethro_uk wrote:

Especially the possibility for desalination - plonk a few of these
around
the parts of the world that need water and consider the electricity a
handy by product

Isn't the electricity /used/ to do the desalination?

Actually no.

the waste heat does that.

Boil some seawater, channel the steam through a condenser (cooled by
more seawater) and voilÃ*! - fresh water

You would probably build it just for that, since steam is what comes
out of a PWR.

I havn't seen any sums for that. IIRC reverse osmosis is remarkably
low-energy and low capital cost compared to distillation.

You might think so, but if you have oodles of low grade heat it might
become cost effective.

I heard it was a high energy process. Either way lower than distillation.

Sorry, just can't see it. Not sure I can even see a large scale solar
still with photovoltaic pumps working for coastal deserts. Otherwise
someone would be doing it.

You need a source of salt water, not normal in a desert.

Your low grade heat from a power station operated in the usual way isn't
going to evaporate water quickly. Then you need massive condensers to
collect it, pumping seawater through them to keep them cool with the
associated pumping and pipe friction losses.

Low grade heat could be 100+C, enough to boil water.

Given you can heat incoming water by the condensate much of the energy
can be reclaimed. That would make condensers more manageable and a power
station would normally need a condenser of some size.

In a combined electricity/desalination plant it *might* make sense to
take bled steam from the HP turbine outlet to do the evaporating, this
still has a decent energy density so your plant volume (and hence
capital cost) is lower for a given throughput.

You only need a little higher than 100C to boil water. HP steam can be
up to 600C, and there are many stages to a generating turbine to bleed
steam off, I might suggest nearer the low pressure exhaust side.

Of course if you want a higher temperature exhaust it means the turbine
could be a few stages shorter and correspondingly cheaper.

I suspect that reverse osmosis would still make better commercial sense.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 13/02/2021 12:24, Fredxx wrote:
On 13/02/2021 10:43, newshound wrote:

Sorry, just can't see it. Not sure I can even see a large scale solar
still with photovoltaic pumps working for coastal deserts. Otherwise
someone would be doing it.

You need a source of salt water, not normal in a desert.

Which is why I said coastal. Although of course brackish water is
available in many deserts, you just have to dig deep enough and then
pump it up.



Your low grade heat from a power station operated in the usual way
isn't going to evaporate water quickly. Then you need massive
condensers to collect it, pumping seawater through them to keep them
cool with the associated pumping and pipe friction losses.

Low grade heat could be 100+C, enough to boil water.

The waste heat from a power station is at about 20 deg C. Because all
the practicable energy has been removed from it.

And you don't need to boil the water, merely to evaporate it. This is
easier if you create some vacuum (although that requires energy). But
you still need to provide some latent heat to get it into the vapour
phase (to separate the salt) and then remove it again.


Given you can heat incoming water by the condensate much of the energy
can be reclaimed. That would make condensers more manageable and a power
station would normally need a condenser of some size.

FFS reclaiming this energy is just not useful. The point is that to keep
the process going you have to remove the latent heat from the vapour
continuously, and them MOVE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. This requires capital
hardware and some energy.


In a combined electricity/desalination plant it *might* make sense to
take bled steam from the HP turbine outlet to do the evaporating, this
still has a decent energy density so your plant volume (and hence
capital cost) is lower for a given throughput.

You only need a little higher than 100C to boil water. HP steam can be
up to 600C, and there are many stages to a generating turbine to bleed
steam off, I might suggest nearer the low pressure exhaust side.

Trust me, engineers who design such systems do the sums properly. In
most cases where process steam is taken out of a power station a smaller
"volume" at higher temperature is usually removed, because this provides
more flexibility and lower cost.

Greenhouses are a bit different because all they usually need is
condenser outlet temperature.


Of course if you want a higher temperature exhaust it means the turbine
could be a few stages shorter and correspondingly cheaper.

I suspect that reverse osmosis would still make better commercial sense.

Of course it does. That is exactly my point, this is the way that
everyone does it. Not by faffing around with thermal cycles.

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 13/02/2021 21:36, newshound wrote:
On 13/02/2021 12:24, Fredxx wrote:
On 13/02/2021 10:43, newshound wrote:

Sorry, just can't see it. Not sure I can even see a large scale solar
still with photovoltaic pumps working for coastal deserts. Otherwise
someone would be doing it.

You need a source of salt water, not normal in a desert.

Which is why I said coastal. Although of course brackish water is
available in many deserts, you just have to dig deep enough and then
pump it up.



Your low grade heat from a power station operated in the usual way
isn't going to evaporate water quickly. Then you need massive
condensers to collect it, pumping seawater through them to keep them
cool with the associated pumping and pipe friction losses.

Low grade heat could be 100+C, enough to boil water.

The waste heat from a power station is at about 20 deg C. Because all
the practicable energy has been removed from it.

And you don't need to boil the water, merely to evaporate it. This is
easier if you create some vacuum (although that requires energy). But
you still need to provide some latent heat to get it into the vapour
phase (to separate the salt) and then remove it again.


Given you can heat incoming water by the condensate much of the energy
can be reclaimed. That would make condensers more manageable and a
power station would normally need a condenser of some size.

FFS reclaiming this energy is just not useful. The point is that to keep
the process going you have to remove the latent heat from the vapour
continuously, and them MOVE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. This requires capital
hardware and some energy.

Before saying any more I suggest you look at many District Heating
sytems that combine electricity generating and providing useful residual
energy for local heating.

One example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beznau...rict _heating

In a combined electricity/desalination plant it *might* make sense to
take bled steam from the HP turbine outlet to do the evaporating,
this still has a decent energy density so your plant volume (and
hence capital cost) is lower for a given throughput.

You only need a little higher than 100C to boil water. HP steam can be
up to 600C, and there are many stages to a generating turbine to bleed
steam off, I might suggest nearer the low pressure exhaust side.

Trust me, engineers who design such systems do the sums properly.

Trust me, from just one system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beznau...rict _heating

"The heat extraction, at a supply temperature from 125 °C in winter down
to 80 °C in summer, induces a loss of electric power, but less than 18
GWh/year at 2 MW average electric power loss"

Not bad for a 730MW of power generation.

In
most cases where process steam is taken out of a power station a smaller
"volume" at higher temperature is usually removed, because this provides
more flexibility and lower cost.

Trust me, in some cases it's not.

Greenhouses are a bit different because all they usually need is
condenser outlet temperature.


Of course if you want a higher temperature exhaust it means the
turbine could be a few stages shorter and correspondingly cheaper.

I suspect that reverse osmosis would still make better commercial sense.

Of course it does. That is exactly my point, this is the way that
everyone does it. Not by faffing around with thermal cycles.

That depends on the sums, I haven't seen any to dispel using nuclear
heat energy to distil water vs reverse osmosis. Now if you can provide them?

OT: Rolls Royce on track to deliver SMR
 

On 13/02/2021 22:28, Fredxx wrote:
On 13/02/2021 21:36, newshound wrote:
On 13/02/2021 12:24, Fredxx wrote:

Before saying any more I suggest you look at many District Heating
sytems that combine electricity generating and providing useful residual
energy for local heating.

One example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beznau...rict _heating



In central Europe. There's only one I can think of in the UK. Why do you
think that might be?