Chris Green wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

for items under £135 (same threshold as duty) the EU seller should
add UK VAT at point of sale and then pay it to HMRC.

Ah, that's where the £135 threshold comes in. Does this apply when
both 'shopping in person' as well as mail-order/on-line?

I thought with tourists they paid the VAT within the country, then
reclaimed it at point of export? If arriving "in person" with the
goods, I think you get £270 or £390 allowance plus beer and fags.

Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

for items under £135 (same threshold as duty) the EU seller should
add UK VAT at point of sale and then pay it to HMRC.

Ah, that's where the £135 threshold comes in. Does this apply when
both 'shopping in person' as well as mail-order/on-line?

I thought with tourists they paid the VAT within the country, then
reclaimed it at point of export?

That's the way it used to be when leaving the UK. However, as I said,
Auchan will certainly knock the VAT off at the till if you are non-EU.
I've not been back since we left the EU so I haven't been able to try
it out yet! :-)

If arriving "in person" with the
goods, I think you get £270 or £390 allowance plus beer and fags.

Yes, I thought it was more than £135, I wonder how that all works then.

--
Chris Green
·

Tim Streater wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

I thought with tourists they paid the VAT within the country, then
reclaimed it at point of export? If arriving "in person" with the
goods, I think you get £270 or £390 allowance plus beer and fags.

So if the store doesn't do a VAT-free channel, then you have to get a refund
at as it might be Calais port?

That's the way I've always seen it, some pokey little VAT reclaim
counter in airports, I've never made use of one.

How does such a store get proof of residence? Passport?

If it's "airside" or whatever the equivalent is for a ferry port, a
passport plus boarding card is probably enough.

I could get a new UK passport saying "UK residence", move to
France, and get VAT-free everything for years.
Streater ImpEx beckons ...

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , tim...
writes


"Radio Man" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 30/01/2021 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
On 30 Jan 2021 at 10:41:03 GMT, Andrew

wrote:

On 30/01/2021 07:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What do you call old people in European care homes dying from lack
of
vaccine?
EUthanasia!

We are still European, just not in the EU any longer.

We knew this all along.

Going well for food and clothing importers and exporters (not).
Several cases already of seafood exports being delayed in
transit and sent to landfill.

These are issues that can be sorted out.

Err, they've had 4 years to sort things out. Just how much more time
do
you need?

Quite and only recently has the EU agreed to tariff free access.

but it seems that tariff-free only applies to wholesale import/export,

not retail import/export (and that's a normal WTO distinction not one
specific to this UK-EU deal)

That's the distinction that many small retailers aren't understanding
here


You are confusing tariffs with VAT.

you have to pay duty on personal imports worth more than 135 pounds

Which is something that Leavers always wanted to do?

Nope

It's just one of the things that Leavers don't give a **** about

How much of the average person's life evolves around importing goods from
online ROW retailers

0.001%

am I noticeably any worse-off because it's just got a bit harder to do?

Nope.

Of course, if this new rule means that retailers who pretend to be in the UK
but aren't, have now had their fraudulent business model pulled from under
them

then that I do regard as a win.

I'm sorry but creating this fictional model of a person who spends their
time importing everything that they buy from Ulan Bator, instead of the
local supermarket, now being worse off, just doesn't wash

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 31/01/2021 09:33, tim... wrote:


you have to pay duty on personal imports worth more than 135 pounds


But if buying from the EU the purchase price of those items wouldn't have
include VAT. (Some) UK suppliers of goods to the EU are quoting ex VAT
prices for those customers.

the problem isn't the end price.

it's the uncertainty of collecting costs that's the killer here

There are means by which the shipper can avoid the buyer in that
uncertainty.

It costs small percentage more (instead of the high percentage more that
admin fees add). Offshore retailers just have to get used to the new
methods.

OTOH, shippers who used to rely upon their product being cheap because they
*knew* that the previous system didn't collect duty, but that a new one now
does, will no longer be able to rape the exchequer

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Chris Green wrote:

Now that we are no longer in the EU you should be able to buy items
from EU sellers without paying VAT. You will then be charged VAT
and/or duty on importing to the UK.

Not quite, no VAT by the EU country, but for items under £135 (same
threshold as duty) the EU seller should add UK VAT at point of sale and
then pay it to HMRC.
It was always thus when importing items from outside the EU, you paid
both VAT and duty (if applicable) on imports.

For items over £135 that's still the case,

No it's not

see rules here

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

VAT can be due for orders from Zero pounds.

"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

Now that we are no longer in the EU you should be able to buy items
from EU sellers without paying VAT. You will then be charged VAT
and/or duty on importing to the UK.

Not quite, no VAT by the EU country, but for items under £135 (same
threshold as duty) the EU seller should add UK VAT at point of sale and
then pay it to HMRC.

Ah, that's where the £135 threshold comes in. Does this apply when
both 'shopping in person' as well as mail-order/on-line?

Auchan for example used to sell 'VAT free' to out-of-EU buyers if you
presented your passport at the till. Are they going to have to
differentiate between UK and other non-EU buyers? It seems a bit
unlikely, and how is it going to be policed?

whether you have bought an item duty-free or duty-paid makes no difference
to whether you have to pay you own county's duty when you ship the item back
home again

So from that pov, a UK purchaser is now a non-EU person, and any duty
payable will be assessed as you walk the item over the border


For mail order it can be
seen marked in some way on the packaging but if I buy loads of stuff
all over France and bring it home in my car what's going to happen?

the customs official will assess the duty payable

There's a "bring it home with you" duty-free allowance but does it
match up with that £135?


It's £390

probably lower for postal shipment because it's possible for you to separate
a purchase out into individual packets, which make no difference if you put
them all in your car boot

In article , tim...
wrote:


"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , tim...
writes


"Radio Man" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Fredxx" wrote in message
...
On 30/01/2021 11:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Tim Streater
wrote:
On 30 Jan 2021 at 10:41:03 GMT, Andrew
wrote:

On 30/01/2021 07:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What do you call old people in European care homes dying from
lack of vaccine? EUthanasia!

We are still European, just not in the EU any longer.

We knew this all along.

Going well for food and clothing importers and exporters (not).
Several cases already of seafood exports being delayed in
transit and sent to landfill.

These are issues that can be sorted out.

Err, they've had 4 years to sort things out. Just how much more
time do you need?

Quite and only recently has the EU agreed to tariff free access.

but it seems that tariff-free only applies to wholesale
import/export,

not retail import/export (and that's a normal WTO distinction not
one specific to this UK-EU deal)

That's the distinction that many small retailers aren't
understanding here


You are confusing tariffs with VAT.

you have to pay duty on personal imports worth more than 135 pounds

Which is something that Leavers always wanted to do?

Nope

It's just one of the things that Leavers don't give a **** about

How much of the average person's life evolves around importing goods from
online ROW retailers

0.001%

am I noticeably any worse-off because it's just got a bit harder to do?

Nope.

Of course, if this new rule means that retailers who pretend to be in the
UK but aren't, have now had their fraudulent business model pulled from
under them

then that I do regard as a win.

I'm sorry but creating this fictional model of a person who spends their
time importing everything that they buy from Ulan Bator, instead of the
local supermarket, now being worse off, just doesn't wash

I have been buying goods from Romania, Poland & France on a reasonably
regular basis.




--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

tim... wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Chris Green wrote:

Now that we are no longer in the EU you should be able to buy items
from EU sellers without paying VAT.Â* You will then be charged VAT
and/or duty on importing to the UK.

Not quite, no VAT by the EU country, but for items under £135 (same
threshold as duty) the EU seller should add UK VAT at point of sale
and then pay it to HMRC.
It was always thus when importing items from outside the EU, you paid
both VAT and duty (if applicable) on imports.

For items over £135 that's still the case,

No it's not

read what I wrote

under £135, vat at point of sale collected by overseas seller, no duty.

over £135 vat and duty (if not zero rated) collected at point of import.

see rules here
https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

That page (as it says) is out of date

Andy Burns wrote:
tim... wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Chris Green wrote:

Now that we are no longer in the EU you should be able to buy items
from EU sellers without paying VAT.Â* You will then be charged VAT
and/or duty on importing to the UK.

Not quite, no VAT by the EU country, but for items under £135 (same
threshold as duty) the EU seller should add UK VAT at point of sale
and then pay it to HMRC.
It was always thus when importing items from outside the EU, you paid
both VAT and duty (if applicable) on imports.

For items over £135 that's still the case,

No it's not

read what I wrote

under £135, vat at point of sale collected by overseas seller, no duty.

over £135 vat and duty (if not zero rated) collected at point of import.

But VAT *isn't* duty!!!!

You pay VAT on almost everything you buy, excluding only food, books
and a few other things.

When we were in the EU that was it, if you had paid VAT in whatever
country you bought something no further taxes were due.

Now that we are outside the EU whether or not you pay VAT on something
(which I think the £135 rules apply to, so that you pay UK VAT on
things imported by post rather than bringing in yourself) there may
*also* be duty payable. This isn't just for alcohol and tobacco,
there's *duty* payable on electrical goods for example and always has
been when imported from outside the EU.

--
Chris Green
·

Chris Green wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

under £135, vat at point of sale collected by overseas seller, no duty.

over £135 vat and duty (if not zero rated) collected at point of import.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

But VAT *isn't* duty!!!!

perhaps you'd like to point out where I said they were the same? The
threshold for each of them *is* now the same.

You pay VAT on almost everything you buy, excluding only food, books
and a few other things.

When we were in the EU that was it, if you had paid VAT in whatever
country you bought something no further taxes were due.

Now that we are outside the EU whether or not you pay VAT on something
(which I think the £135 rules apply to, so that you pay UK VAT on
things imported by post rather than bringing in yourself) there may
*also* be duty payable.

Yes I know, I said that up there ^^^^^^^^

This isn't just for alcohol and tobacco,
there's *duty* payable on electrical goods for example and always has
been when imported from outside the EU.

In article ,
Chris Green wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
tim... wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Chris Green wrote:

Now that we are no longer in the EU you should be able to buy items
from EU sellers without paying VAT. You will then be charged VAT
and/or duty on importing to the UK.

Not quite, no VAT by the EU country, but for items under £135 (same
threshold as duty) the EU seller should add UK VAT at point of sale
and then pay it to HMRC.
It was always thus when importing items from outside the EU, you
paid both VAT and duty (if applicable) on imports.

For items over £135 that's still the case,

No it's not

read what I wrote

under £135, vat at point of sale collected by overseas seller, no duty.

over £135 vat and duty (if not zero rated) collected at point of import.

But VAT *isn't* duty!!!!

You pay VAT on almost everything you buy, excluding only food, books
and a few other things.

When we were in the EU that was it, if you had paid VAT in whatever
country you bought something no further taxes were due.

Now that we are outside the EU whether or not you pay VAT on something
(which I think the £135 rules apply to, so that you pay UK VAT on
things imported by post rather than bringing in yourself) there may
*also* be duty payable. This isn't just for alcohol and tobacco,
there's *duty* payable on electrical goods for example and always has
been when imported from outside the EU.

and, of course, the VAT is charged after the import duty is added, so
you're paying tax on tax

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

Now that we are no longer in the EU you should be able to buy items
from EU sellers without paying VAT. You will then be charged VAT
and/or duty on importing to the UK.

Not quite, no VAT by the EU country, but for items under £135 (same
threshold as duty) the EU seller should add UK VAT at point of sale and
then pay it to HMRC.
It was always thus when importing items from outside the EU, you paid
both VAT and duty (if applicable) on imports.

For items over £135 that's still the case,

No it's not

read what I wrote

under £135, vat at point of sale collected by overseas seller, no duty.

except that many retailers are not doing so

hence the reason for these bills