With some good pointers from the Home Automaters here I've been
experimenting with a starter HA system (from Lidl).

Their Silvercrest rebranded Tuya ZigBee gear all seemed to work out of
the box (hub, 3 lights, some mains switches, remote control, strip
light) in addition to a Sonoff PIR sensor, switching a light in the
hall and others coming on/off, dusk/dawn etc.

Again, with advice here and in the hope of keeping it all local and
doing more powerful things, I've installed the Home Assistant system
(v Hassos) on a RPi3B and with a TI CC2531 ZigBee2MQTT (Coordinator
firmware) dongle ... and that also connects ok to a smart switch and I
can toggle that manually from the dashboard but I'm yet to get the
hang of any of the automation stuff.

Like when you go though creating the automation it doesn't seem to use
the 'friendly' name for the devices but the complex discovered names
(is that right?) and it seems to be un-intuitive / settings overload,
compared with the Lidl / Tyua 'Smart Life' app in any case.

But then I'm guessing it's going to be fairly complex if it's going to
be able to handle all the boolean rules stuff? ;-(

So, can anyone point me to a very basic user guide / walkthrough for
say adding a smart light and remote control or making a smart switch
go on and off randomly please? I'm hoping if I have something that
works I'd be able to tweak it bit by bit and then understand it
better?

(It's all looking a bit too much like programming for me and I hope I
read abut a more GUI version on it's way (or is this it))?

Host Operating System Home Assistant OS 5.8
Update Channel stable
Supervisor Version 2020.12.7
Docker Version 19.03.13

Or is there something else I should have added to make it do what I
want please?

Cheers, T i m

On 21/12/2020 19:41, T i m wrote:

With some good pointers from the Home Automaters here I've been
experimenting with a starter HA system (from Lidl).

Their Silvercrest rebranded Tuya ZigBee gear all seemed to work out of
the box (hub, 3 lights, some mains switches, remote control, strip
light) in addition to a Sonoff PIR sensor, switching a light in the
hall and others coming on/off, dusk/dawn etc.

Again, with advice here and in the hope of keeping it all local and
doing more powerful things, I've installed the Home Assistant system
(v Hassos) on a RPi3B and with a TI CC2531 ZigBee2MQTT (Coordinator
firmware) dongle ... and that also connects ok to a smart switch and I
can toggle that manually from the dashboard but I'm yet to get the
hang of any of the automation stuff.

Like when you go though creating the automation it doesn't seem to use
the 'friendly' name for the devices but the complex discovered names
(is that right?) and it seems to be un-intuitive / settings overload,
compared with the Lidl / Tyua 'Smart Life' app in any case.

But then I'm guessing it's going to be fairly complex if it's going to
be able to handle all the boolean rules stuff? ;-(

So, can anyone point me to a very basic user guide / walkthrough for
say adding a smart light and remote control or making a smart switch
go on and off randomly please? I'm hoping if I have something that
works I'd be able to tweak it bit by bit and then understand it
better?

(It's all looking a bit too much like programming for me and I hope I
read abut a more GUI version on it's way (or is this it))?

Host Operating System Home Assistant OS 5.8
Update Channel stable
Supervisor Version 2020.12.7
Docker Version 19.03.13

Or is there something else I should have added to make it do what I
want please?

Common sense? As in not wasting such time, effort, and money for so
little return?

Just because something is possible doesn't make it a good idea to implement.

--
Spike

T i m wrote:
Again, with advice here and in the hope of keeping it all local and
doing more powerful things, I've installed the Home Assistant system
(v Hassos) on a RPi3B and with a TI CC2531 ZigBee2MQTT (Coordinator
firmware) dongle ... and that also connects ok to a smart switch and I
can toggle that manually from the dashboard but I'm yet to get the
hang of any of the automation stuff.

I assume you or somebody reprogrammed the CC2531 with the zigbee2mqtt
firmware? So you're getting status and control of your devices OK in Home
Assistant?

Did you rename the devices to 'friendly' names, rather than 0x1583753737 or
whatever they come as? Whenever I pair a new device I immediately rename
it, otherwise I couldn't tell the individual devices apart (there's no IDs
printed on the outside).

Like when you go though creating the automation it doesn't seem to use
the 'friendly' name for the devices but the complex discovered names
(is that right?) and it seems to be un-intuitive / settings overload,
compared with the Lidl / Tyua 'Smart Life' app in any case.

I've not set this up before, but when I go to Configuration - Automations
there's a '+' button in the bottom right (sometimes this is hidden by a
popup which you need to dismiss - a bit of bad UI there).

Click + and it pops up a thing that says

"Type below what this automation should do, and we will try to convert into
a Home Assistant automation"

I don't trust such things, so I press SKIP.

Then it pops up a 'New Automation' box with:

Triggers - select a source of events. For example I could go with:
Trigger Type - Device
Device: 'Garage' (my name for it)
Then appears: Trigger: Garage_temperature temperature changes
Above: 0C
Below: 0C
Duration hh:mm:ss

(set to whatever thresholds and press 'Add Trigger')
I don't know how the 'Above', 'Below' and 'Duration' boxes work exactly, but
I could RTFM.


Actions:
Action type: Device
Device: 'Ikea power socket' (my name)
Action: Turn on Ikea power socket_switch
(press Add Action)

Click the floppy disc icon (bottom right) to save.


Seems simple enough to me. Yes there are lots of boxes, but that's because
there's lots of possible things you could do.


(I later went back and tried the 'we'll guess for you' thing - I typed in
something like 'turn on garage socket when temperature is below freezing'.
It guessed right about making a trigger based on a temperature sensor, but I
had to select the garage one. It seemed to think I wanted to turn on a
light, and my setup doesn't have any lights connected, so it left the rest
for me to set up. Doing it manually is less hassle)

So, can anyone point me to a very basic user guide / walkthrough for
say adding a smart light and remote control or making a smart switch
go on and off randomly please? I'm hoping if I have something that
works I'd be able to tweak it bit by bit and then understand it
better?

Just search 'Home Assistant automations' and there are YouTube videos.
I haven't watched them, but I'd be surprised if they didn't show you.

Theo

on 22/12/2020, Theo supposed :
Whenever I pair a new device I immediately rename
it, otherwise I couldn't tell the individual devices apart (there's no IDs
printed on the outside).

I numbered mine 1 to 8 plus a name, on a sticky label.

On 22 Dec 2020 12:56:44 +0000 (GMT), Theo
wrote:

T i m wrote:
Again, with advice here and in the hope of keeping it all local and
doing more powerful things, I've installed the Home Assistant system
(v Hassos) on a RPi3B and with a TI CC2531 ZigBee2MQTT (Coordinator
firmware) dongle ... and that also connects ok to a smart switch and I
can toggle that manually from the dashboard but I'm yet to get the
hang of any of the automation stuff.

I assume you or somebody reprogrammed the CC2531 with the zigbee2mqtt
firmware?

Yes, I bought it like that so reduce the level of variables I'd have
to deal with.

So you're getting status and control of your devices OK in Home
Assistant?

I am.

Did you rename the devices to 'friendly' names, rather than 0x1583753737 or
whatever they come as?

I did.

Whenever I pair a new device I immediately rename
it, otherwise I couldn't tell the individual devices apart (there's no IDs
printed on the outside).

Makes sense (and what I did). There is a 'Name' field that I believe
you edit to give it a friendly name and an ID that is how it's seen by
the system (that you probably shouldn't edit?). It's the ID that seems
to appear when creating an automation?

https://ibb.co/jzTmGSK

Like when you go though creating the automation it doesn't seem to use
the 'friendly' name for the devices but the complex discovered names
(is that right?) and it seems to be un-intuitive / settings overload,
compared with the Lidl / Tyua 'Smart Life' app in any case.

I've not set this up before, but when I go to Configuration - Automations
there's a '+' button in the bottom right (sometimes this is hidden by a
popup which you need to dismiss - a bit of bad UI there).

Yup, that's where I go.

Click + and it pops up a thing that says

"Type below what this automation should do, and we will try to convert into
a Home Assistant automation"

Seen.

I don't trust such things, so I press SKIP.

I've tried it both ways Theo.

Then it pops up a 'New Automation' box with:

Triggers - select a source of events. For example I could go with:
Trigger Type - Device

Device: 'Garage' (my name for it)
Then appears: Trigger: Garage_temperature temperature changes
Above: 0C
Below: 0C
Duration hh:mm:ss

(set to whatever thresholds and press 'Add Trigger')
I don't know how the 'Above', 'Below' and 'Duration' boxes work exactly, but
I could RTFM.

Ok, I se a trigger as 'Sun' that popped up a Sunrise / Sunset option,
I chose Sunset.


Actions:
Action type: Device
Device: 'Ikea power socket' (my name)

I would have to select '_TZ3000_00mk2xzy TS011F' as that's how what I
called 'Socket 1' comes up in the list (because I know it's in the
lounge).

https://ibb.co/vJzWHsw

Action: Turn on Ikea power socket_switch
(press Add Action)

And there I see Turn on Socket 1, Turn off Socket 1, Toggle Socket 1
etc. (I've selected Turn on Socket 1 (at Sunrise))

Click the floppy disc icon (bottom right) to save.

Yup.


Seems simple enough to me.

Erm, because you have made something work, it always easy once you
have done that or maybe you are more familiar with programming or all
the concepts than I?

Yes there are lots of boxes, but that's because
there's lots of possible things you could do.

Understood.


(I later went back and tried the 'we'll guess for you' thing - I typed in
something like 'turn on garage socket when temperature is below freezing'.
It guessed right about making a trigger based on a temperature sensor, but I
had to select the garage one. It seemed to think I wanted to turn on a
light, and my setup doesn't have any lights connected, so it left the rest
for me to set up.

Ok. I've tried using their Wizard thing but because it wasn't obvious
what device was what (other than in this case I've only but one switch
in an Area I could differentiate it) .

Doing it manually is less hassle)

Oh sure, when you realise what's what and what you *need* to add /
adjust / set and what you don't.

My point, with the Smart Life app I was able to do everything I
imagined you could with only a brief glance at the instructions that
came with each instance of a device, if it wasn't / already in pairing
mode when I started. After that I have been able to switch between
apps, unpair / pair and automate everything I wanted (and was possibly
able) intuitively ... without having to resort to instructions or
Youtube etc.

So, can anyone point me to a very basic user guide / walkthrough for
say adding a smart light and remote control or making a smart switch
go on and off randomly please? I'm hoping if I have something that
works I'd be able to tweak it bit by bit and then understand it
better?

Just search 'Home Assistant automations' and there are YouTube videos.

Yes, I've watched a few, it didn't help because none seemed to cover
what I was trying to do and anything similar didn't look like mine (re
the device names etc)?

I haven't watched them, but I'd be surprised if they didn't show you.

So, now I have what appears to be a complete automation (turning
Socket 1 on at Sunset), do I have to create a new automation to turn
it off at Sunrise or would it be combined in the same automation?

As mentioned I was able to get the Lidl app hooked up to all the
devices (Inc the Sonoff PIR) and doing exactly what I wanted and it
was all reasonably intuitive.

Home Assistant seems to be something, a bit like OMV or TVHeadend
where it was written by a Linux geek / programmer but without running
it past a newbie and dealing with all the newbie stumbling blocks?
Like, 'how did I get to that screen that let me ...' sorta thing.
Maybe they aren't aimed at newbies?

I'm not complaining you understand (I can see it's pretty powerful)
but feel many would get as far as I did (most may not even get that
far etc) but then give up with the lack of logic, intuitively or
context sensitive help.

Reading the manual has rarely worked to help me better understand how
it works (because if it's got to that position the chances are it's
not intuitive etc) and might only answer the odd question re what
something is or how it needs to be seen / reset etc.

I'll persevere though and thanks for the help. I think I just needed
to get *something* automated and hopefully it will be full ahead from
here / there. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"Spike" wrote in message
...
On 21/12/2020 19:41, T i m wrote:

With some good pointers from the Home Automaters here I've been
experimenting with a starter HA system (from Lidl).

Their Silvercrest rebranded Tuya ZigBee gear all seemed to work out of
the box (hub, 3 lights, some mains switches, remote control, strip
light) in addition to a Sonoff PIR sensor, switching a light in the
hall and others coming on/off, dusk/dawn etc.

Again, with advice here and in the hope of keeping it all local and
doing more powerful things, I've installed the Home Assistant system
(v Hassos) on a RPi3B and with a TI CC2531 ZigBee2MQTT (Coordinator
firmware) dongle ... and that also connects ok to a smart switch and I
can toggle that manually from the dashboard but I'm yet to get the
hang of any of the automation stuff.

Like when you go though creating the automation it doesn't seem to use
the 'friendly' name for the devices but the complex discovered names
(is that right?) and it seems to be un-intuitive / settings overload,
compared with the Lidl / Tyua 'Smart Life' app in any case.

But then I'm guessing it's going to be fairly complex if it's going to
be able to handle all the boolean rules stuff? ;-(

So, can anyone point me to a very basic user guide / walkthrough for
say adding a smart light and remote control or making a smart switch
go on and off randomly please? I'm hoping if I have something that
works I'd be able to tweak it bit by bit and then understand it
better?

(It's all looking a bit too much like programming for me and I hope I
read abut a more GUI version on it's way (or is this it))?

Host Operating System Home Assistant OS 5.8
Update Channel stable
Supervisor Version 2020.12.7
Docker Version 19.03.13

Or is there something else I should have added to make it do what I
want please?

Common sense? As in not wasting such time, effort, and money for so
little return?

Just because something is possible doesn't make it a good idea to
implement.

But in this case you end up with a much more convenient
result with the best stuff with no real effort at all. I have
everything completely automated now and have no
physical switches used at all and its much more convenient.

T i m wrote:
On 22 Dec 2020 12:56:44 +0000 (GMT), Theo
wrote:

Whenever I pair a new device I immediately rename
it, otherwise I couldn't tell the individual devices apart (there's no IDs
printed on the outside).

Makes sense (and what I did). There is a 'Name' field that I believe
you edit to give it a friendly name and an ID that is how it's seen by
the system (that you probably shouldn't edit?). It's the ID that seems
to appear when creating an automation?

I get to select it by name, which is handy because all the Aqara sensors
have entity IDs of 0x153..... which isn't very obvious.

Actions:
Action type: Device
Device: 'Ikea power socket' (my name)

I would have to select '_TZ3000_00mk2xzy TS011F' as that's how what I
called 'Socket 1' comes up in the list (because I know it's in the
lounge).

For me all the devices come up with the names I've assigned them, and that's
the 'Device' column in Configuration - Devices.

Although, I did notice it doesn't always rename some of the child entities.
If you click on the device in that list, it shows the entities in a box.
For example my list for the Garage sensor is:

Garage_temperature
Garage_pressure
Garage_linkquality
Garage_humidity
0x00158d00058a613f_battery

so for some reason it hasn't renamed the _battery entity. If I click the
0x0015..._battery I can add a 'Name Override' to be Garage_battery (being the battery
level in the temperature/pressure/humidity sensor in the Garage).

(I don't really care about these readings, but renaming them saves them
cluttering up some of the logs with unidentifiable things)

Action: Turn on Ikea power socket_switch
(press Add Action)

And there I see Turn on Socket 1, Turn off Socket 1, Toggle Socket 1
etc. (I've selected Turn on Socket 1 (at Sunrise))

Click the floppy disc icon (bottom right) to save.

Yup.


Seems simple enough to me.

Erm, because you have made something work, it always easy once you
have done that or maybe you are more familiar with programming or all
the concepts than I?

You have to think in terms of 'when X happens then do Y', but once you have
decided that it's just filling in the boxes? Like you said 'at sunset turn
light on'.

Oh sure, when you realise what's what and what you *need* to add /
adjust / set and what you don't.

My point, with the Smart Life app I was able to do everything I
imagined you could with only a brief glance at the instructions that
came with each instance of a device, if it wasn't / already in pairing
mode when I started. After that I have been able to switch between
apps, unpair / pair and automate everything I wanted (and was possibly
able) intuitively ... without having to resort to instructions or
Youtube etc.

It's more complicated, but that's because it gives you more control.
Also it isn't designed for a small range of products, so has to be more
generic. Vendor-specific apps are designed for the handful of things
they sell and for a handful of use cases.

Did you read the docs on Automations:
https://www.home-assistant.io/docs/automation/

(I didn't, and yet I figured it out thus far)

I haven't watched them, but I'd be surprised if they didn't show you.

So, now I have what appears to be a complete automation (turning
Socket 1 on at Sunset), do I have to create a new automation to turn
it off at Sunrise or would it be combined in the same automation?

I'd guess you need another one if that's what you wish (maybe you wanted
something else, like turning off at midnight). I don't know if there's a
way to pair actions:

If Sunset then Turn On;
If Sunrise then Turn Off

I don't know if there's a common thingy to do both at the same time - maybe
there is.

As mentioned I was able to get the Lidl app hooked up to all the
devices (Inc the Sonoff PIR) and doing exactly what I wanted and it
was all reasonably intuitive.

Home Assistant seems to be something, a bit like OMV or TVHeadend
where it was written by a Linux geek / programmer but without running
it past a newbie and dealing with all the newbie stumbling blocks?
Like, 'how did I get to that screen that let me ...' sorta thing.
Maybe they aren't aimed at newbies?

HA is a generic platform so there are 57 varieties of newbies, trying to do
all different kinds of things, with all sorts of different products over all
sorts of different platform. Your best bet is to find videos/blogs/etc of
someone who has done something similar.

(It also appears the manual is based on writing snippets of YAML
configuration, and separate to that there's a UI that can do most of it. It
seems the way to do the same with the UI isn't always as clearly documented)

Reading the manual has rarely worked to help me better understand how
it works (because if it's got to that position the chances are it's
not intuitive etc) and might only answer the odd question re what
something is or how it needs to be seen / reset etc.

There's also the HA forum which is quite extensive.

Theo

On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 03:07:45 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

But in this case you end up with a much more convenient
result with the best stuff with no real effort at all.

Are you using the Hue system to do all the controlling?

I have
everything completely automated now and have no
physical switches used at all and its much more convenient.

We already had quite a few things automated but via individual sensors
(Dusk/Dawn, movement, time switches) but the whole HA thing means all
that's easier to manage and tweak.

Like, the Dusk/dawn lamps really needed to be outside or at least in
good outdoor levels of light to in the front hall would often stay on
all day when it was overcast. Now it goes on / off as expected,
irrespective of the light levels (although I'm hoping to expand on
that via HA over the Lidl app).

It looks like Theo's pointers seem to have worked and HA has turned on
a Smart Switch at Sunset as automated. ;-)

As an aside, I measured the power consumption of a Lidl Smart Switch
and it was off it drew nothing (measurable by the power plug thing
anyway) and .6W when on.

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 15:01:59 GMT, Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
wrote:

on 22/12/2020, Theo supposed :
Whenever I pair a new device I immediately rename
it, otherwise I couldn't tell the individual devices apart (there's no IDs
printed on the outside).

I numbered mine 1 to 8 plus a name, on a sticky label.

So far I have (soft) labeled them as to their role, so one smart
switch is called '3D Printer' and another 'Home automation' (that's
powering the HA RPi but is managed by the Lidl app for now). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote
Rod Speed wrote

But in this case you end up with a much more convenient
result with the best stuff with no real effort at all.

Are you using the Hue system to do all the controlling?

Not all, I use the Eve Energy switch for some things,
just because Hue didn't have one for a while.

I have everything completely automated now and have no
physical switches used at all and its much more convenient.

We already had quite a few things automated

I did too with the X10 system. Don't use that anymore.

but via individual sensors (Dusk/Dawn, movement,
time switches) but the whole HA thing means all
that's easier to manage and tweak.

And much easier to use with alexa
and the google home devices and siri.

Like, the Dusk/dawn lamps really needed to be outside or
at least in good outdoor levels of light to in the front hall
would often stay on all day when it was overcast. Now it
goes on / off as expected, irrespective of the light levels

Yeah I do that on time now with automatic time of day
adjustment and completely automatic daylight saving etc.

(although I'm hoping to expand on that via HA over the Lidl app).

It looks like Theo's pointers seem to have worked and HA
has turned on a Smart Switch at Sunset as automated. ;-)

As an aside, I measured the power consumption of a Lidl
Smart Switch and it was off it drew nothing (measurable
by the power plug thing anyway) and .6W when on.

On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 03:07:45 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:



But in this case you end up with a much more convenient
result with the best stuff with no real effort at all. I have
everything completely automated now and have no
physical switches used at all and its much more convenient.

Yep, you ARE that kind of mindless consuming asshole, you senile Google,
Amazon, M$ and Apple admirer! BG

--
Marland revealing the senile sociopath's pathology:
"You have mentioned Alexa in a couple of threads recently, it is not a real
woman you know even if it is the only thing with a female name that stays
around around while you talk it to it.
Poor sad git who has to resort to Usenet and electronic devices for any
interaction as all real people run a mile to get away from you boring them
to death."
MID:

On Wed, 23 Dec 2020 04:28:03 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


And much easier to use with alexa
and the google home devices and siri.

Alexa, again? The ONLY "woman" (or person) that talks to you subnormal
cantankerous senile sociopath! LOL

--
Marland revealing the senile sociopath's pathology:
"You have mentioned Alexa in a couple of threads recently, it is not a real
woman you know even if it is the only thing with a female name that stays
around around while you talk it to it.
Poor sad git who has to resort to Usenet and electronic devices for any
interaction as all real people run a mile to get away from you boring them
to death."
MID:

On 22 Dec 2020 16:36:59 +0000 (GMT), Theo
wrote:

snip

Makes sense (and what I did). There is a 'Name' field that I believe
you edit to give it a friendly name and an ID that is how it's seen by
the system (that you probably shouldn't edit?). It's the ID that seems
to appear when creating an automation?

I get to select it by name, which is handy because all the Aqara sensors
have entity IDs of 0x153..... which isn't very obvious.

Quite (similar here with the Lidl / Tuya stuff). However, I've deleted
a couple of things and re-paired them and now it does seem to show the
friendly names?

Actions:
Action type: Device
Device: 'Ikea power socket' (my name)

I would have to select '_TZ3000_00mk2xzy TS011F' as that's how what I
called 'Socket 1' comes up in the list (because I know it's in the
lounge).

For me all the devices come up with the names I've assigned them, and that's
the 'Device' column in Configuration - Devices.

And that's the other thing, is it me or is the UI all over the place
re how you delete something? I find myself constantly hunting to get
back to where I think I need to be, as if different people have
written different modules and never spoken to each other? ;-(

Although, I did notice it doesn't always rename some of the child entities.
If you click on the device in that list, it shows the entities in a box.
For example my list for the Garage sensor is:

Garage_temperature
Garage_pressure
Garage_linkquality
Garage_humidity
0x00158d00058a613f_battery

Ah, I saw that when taking the Sonoff PUR sensor off the Lidl system
and onto HA with the active sensing bit and the battery (two
instances).

so for some reason it hasn't renamed the _battery entity. If I click the
0x0015..._battery I can add a 'Name Override' to be Garage_battery (being the battery
level in the temperature/pressure/humidity sensor in the Garage).

(I don't really care about these readings, but renaming them saves them
cluttering up some of the logs with unidentifiable things)

Understood. KISS etc. ;-)

snip

You have to think in terms of 'when X happens then do Y', but once you have
decided that it's just filling in the boxes? Like you said 'at sunset turn
light on'.

Yeah, I get the logic in my head and am even aware of the boolean
logic re say dusk/dawn + PIR if overcast etc (but currently no chance
of implementing it physically).

snip

It's more complicated, but that's because it gives you more control.

Understood, however, the implementation seems more complicated than it
could be, like trying to determine what the difference is between a
device, entity and integration (ok, I get what device is).

Also it isn't designed for a small range of products, so has to be more
generic. Vendor-specific apps are designed for the handful of things
they sell and for a handful of use cases.

Agreed.

Did you read the docs on Automations:
https://www.home-assistant.io/docs/automation/

(I didn't, and yet I figured it out thus far)

;-)

Nope, well, I trued to get it to answer my first question re why a new
automation didn't seem to reset, 'Mode' but clicking on their link to
the documentation took me to something that didn't relate to what I
was seeing and when I found Mode, it didn't really help me understand
what it did? I could read what it said it did, but not what it meant
in the real world?

I haven't watched them, but I'd be surprised if they didn't show you.

So, now I have what appears to be a complete automation (turning
Socket 1 on at Sunset), do I have to create a new automation to turn
it off at Sunrise or would it be combined in the same automation?

I'd guess you need another one if that's what you wish (maybe you wanted
something else, like turning off at midnight). I don't know if there's a
way to pair actions:

If Sunset then Turn On;
If Sunrise then Turn Off

I don't know if there's a common thingy to do both at the same time - maybe
there is.

OK, I gave up on that, removed the middle hall light and hall PIR from
the Lidl system and paired them into HA. Then I used one of their
'Movement turns on light' templates and it sorta worked (the light
came on with the PIR but didn't go off in the 120s it was set to).
Then I noticed an update (V5.9) whilst clicking about trying to find
my way to stuff so applied that, it restarted and now the PIR light
works as expected! So this is another 'learning thing', knowing when
you *need* to restart, reset or just leave it for a while.

snip

HA is a generic platform so there are 57 varieties of newbies, trying to do
all different kinds of things, with all sorts of different products over all
sorts of different platform.

Understood.

Your best bet is to find videos/blogs/etc of
someone who has done something similar.

I did try before even building the system but everything I looked at
seemed to go into editing the Yaml file?

(It also appears the manual is based on writing snippets of YAML
configuration, and separate to that there's a UI that can do most of it. It
seems the way to do the same with the UI isn't always as clearly documented)

Tell me about it! There is no real point me 'reading' a manual like
that because it's not written by someone who doesn't already know what
they want. So my only hope is that I might get some help from it for
specific references but they rarely do.

Reading the manual has rarely worked to help me better understand how
it works (because if it's got to that position the chances are it's
not intuitive etc) and might only answer the odd question re what
something is or how it needs to be seen / reset etc.

There's also the HA forum which is quite extensive.

Hopefully (with your kickstarter here) I will be able to conflate the
contents of a template generated automation (although that is
different yet again as it seems to be more like a GUI flow diagram)
with an Automagic solution from the keywords and a bit of poke-n-hope
inbetween. ;-)

https://ibb.co/B6B0ZMD

Anyway, I am slowly weaning the devices off the Lidl hub over to HA
and have just linked the phone App (seems to have worked) and now need
to find out how I see / add all the devices from there, so I can
override / manage any if needed?

Thanks very much again for the support Theo (Inc the initial RPi
stuff). Sometimes we need a little nudge in the right direction. ;-)

Cheers, T i m