I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were stuck
on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off. The car was
supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow wheels
where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels and I
have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease stop
the wheels from being stuck on?


--
Michael Chare

On 01/12/2020 23:30, Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the alloy wheels were stuck
on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off.Â* The car was
supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the alloy wheels
where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels and I
have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease stop
the wheels from being stuck on?


Alloy

--
Michael Chare

On 02/12/2020 01:04, Michael Chare wrote:
On 01/12/2020 23:30, Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the alloy wheels were
stuck on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off.Â* The
car was supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the alloy wheels
where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels and
I have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease
stop the wheels from being stuck on?


Alloy


Ex MOT-testwer neighbour just uses a sledge hammer to get stuck
allow wheels off.

Don't use copper grease on alloy wheels. Others here will pipe up
and disagree but a smear of high melting-point grease is all you
need.

On 02/12/2020 11:43:40, Andrew wrote:
On 02/12/2020 01:04, Michael Chare wrote:
On 01/12/2020 23:30, Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the alloy wheels were
stuck on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off.Â* The
car was supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the alloy
wheels where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels
and I have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease
stop the wheels from being stuck on?


Alloy


Ex MOT-testwer neighbour just uses a sledge hammer to get stuck
allow wheels off.

Don't use copper grease on alloy wheels. Others here will pipe up
and disagree but a smear of high melting-point grease is all you
need.

I'll bite, why not copper grease?

Especially as it's often conveniently at hand and put on high
temperature components like brake parts.

Fredxx wrote:
On 02/12/2020 11:43:40, Andrew wrote:
On 02/12/2020 01:04, Michael Chare wrote:
On 01/12/2020 23:30, Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the alloy wheels were
stuck on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off.Â* The
car was supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the alloy
wheels where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels
and I have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease
stop the wheels from being stuck on?


Alloy


Ex MOT-testwer neighbour just uses a sledge hammer to get stuck
allow wheels off.

Don't use copper grease on alloy wheels. Others here will pipe up
and disagree but a smear of high melting-point grease is all you
need.

I'll bite, why not copper grease?

Especially as it's often conveniently at hand and put on high
temperature components like brake parts.


Some people think (and it may be true, in theory) that copper in contact
with alloy can accelerate corrosion. I suspect that the amount of copper
is insufficient to actually cause a problem. Certainly very many people in
the car trade use copper grease for this purpose without problems.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 3/12/20 7:14 am, Tim+ wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
On 02/12/2020 11:43:40, Andrew wrote:
On 02/12/2020 01:04, Michael Chare wrote:
On 01/12/2020 23:30, Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the alloy wheels were
stuck on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off.Â* The
car was supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the alloy
wheels where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels
and I have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease
stop the wheels from being stuck on?


Alloy


Ex MOT-testwer neighbour just uses a sledge hammer to get stuck
allow wheels off.

Don't use copper grease on alloy wheels. Others here will pipe up
and disagree but a smear of high melting-point grease is all you
need.

I'll bite, why not copper grease?

Especially as it's often conveniently at hand and put on high
temperature components like brake parts.


Some people think (and it may be true, in theory) that copper in contact
with alloy can accelerate corrosion. I suspect that the amount of copper
is insufficient to actually cause a problem. Certainly very many people in
the car trade use copper grease for this purpose without problems.

Tim

So use nickel grease

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 23:30:42 +0000, Michael Chare wrote:

I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were stuck
on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off. The car was
supported by a trolley jack.

Just pulling or did you try kicking or whacking the tyre/edge of rim
as well?

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease stop
the wheels from being stuck on?

Never had a seriously stuck rim but then I'd kick or whack it or, in
extremis for the fronts, loosely refit a couple of nuts lower the car
and waggle the steering.

Mind you the mating faces between rim and hub have always been a bit
greasy with copper grease from the stud/nuts...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Never had a seriously stuck rim but then I'd kick or whack it or, in
extremis for the fronts, loosely refit a couple of nuts lower the car
and waggle the steering.

Slackening the bolts/nuts and driving the car up and down the drive may
work. Worst I had was an old Bedford (Viva) van - the steel wheels got
welded to the hubs.

--
*Never slap a man who's chewing tobacco *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/12/2020 10:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Never had a seriously stuck rim but then I'd kick or whack it or, in
extremis for the fronts, loosely refit a couple of nuts lower the car
and waggle the steering.

Slackening the bolts/nuts and driving the car up and down the drive may
work. Worst I had was an old Bedford (Viva) van - the steel wheels got
welded to the hubs.

I was going to suggest that too.

On 01/12/2020 23:30, Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were stuck
on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease stop
the wheels from being stuck on?



Yes.

Mike

On 01/12/2020 23:30, Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were stuck
on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off.Â* The car was
supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow wheels
where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels and I
have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease stop
the wheels from being stuck on?


You have probably identified the problem correctly, so the main answer
is to get the gaps filled with something that excludes water and perhaps
contains corrosion inhibitors.

You can get "sticking" at the flat (axial) interface. You can also get
buildup of corrosion products (especially with alloy wheels) at the
cylindrical (radial) interface that "centralises" the wheel before you
fit the studs or nuts. (The *actual* centering is done by the fact that
the nuts / studs have a conical interface)

Wire brushing the steel part to remove "rust" is not a bad idea. Wire
brushing the *wheel* poses the risk that you damage the "paint" and this
might make corrosion of the alloy worse.

You need a thin smear of grease (but not too thin). Experts would argue
endlessly about the best product, so I am reluctant to make a specific
suggestion.

It would help to clarify where the sticking is happening. Do you mean it
comes loose, but then is a PITA to remove completely, or that it does
*not* move, and then comes right off suddenly?

On 02/12/2020 10:36, newshound wrote:
On 01/12/2020 23:30, Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were
stuck on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off.Â* The
car was supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow wheels
where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels and
I have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease
stop the wheels from being stuck on?


You have probably identified the problem correctly, so the main answer
is to get the gaps filled with something that excludes water and perhaps
contains corrosion inhibitors.

You can get "sticking" at the flat (axial) interface. You can also get
buildup of corrosion products (especially with alloy wheels) at the
cylindrical (radial) interface that "centralises" the wheel before you
fit the studs or nuts. (The *actual* centering is done by the fact that
the nuts / studs have a conical interface)

Wire brushing the steel part to remove "rust" is not a bad idea. Wire
brushing the *wheel* poses the risk that you damage the "paint" and this
might make corrosion of the alloy worse.

You need a thin smear of grease (but not too thin). Experts would argue
endlessly about the best product, so I am reluctant to make a specific
suggestion.

It would help to clarify where the sticking is happening. Do you mean it
comes loose, but then is a PITA to remove completely, or that it does
*not* move, and then comes right off suddenly?

The latter. No movement until the wheel suddenly comes right off.

--
Michael Chare

On 02/12/2020 16:02, Michael Chare wrote:
On 02/12/2020 10:36, newshound wrote:
On 01/12/2020 23:30, Michael Chare wrote:


It would help to clarify where the sticking is happening. Do you mean
it comes loose, but then is a PITA to remove completely, or that it
does *not* move, and then comes right off suddenly?

The latter. No movement until the wheel suddenly comes right off.

OK, sounds like sticking at the flat surface then. I had more problems
on one of my recent cars (steel wheels) with the wheel being very tight
on the cylindrical spigot, and needing to be wiggled off.

Perhaps some electrolytic corrosion between the steel and the alloy
creating a "glue"? Or perhaps the inner face of the alloy wheel has been
"touched up" with an unsuitable paint, and that is forming an adhesive
layer.

On 02/12/2020 10:36, newshound wrote:
The *actual* centering is done by the fact that the nuts / studs have a
conical interface)

Not always.

https://www.machinedesign.com/fastening-joining/article/21832042/whats-the-difference-between-lugcentric-and-hubcentric-wheels
AKA https://tinyurl.com/y5rauovp

Andy

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were stuck
on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off. The car was
supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow wheels
where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels and I
have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease stop
the wheels from being stuck on?

Yes. Something garages and tyre places never seem to do. Copper grease is
what I use.

--
*Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were stuck
on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off. The car was
supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow wheels
where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels and I
have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease stop
the wheels from being stuck on?

Yes. Something garages and tyre places never seem to do. Copper grease is
what I use.

I don't think I've ever had a problem with car wheels getting stuck to the
hub. And I've had at least one car that had alloy rather than steel wheels.

I *have* had a problem with the wire cradle that held the spare wheel under
the floor of the boot: the nut on the cradle got rusted onto the long bolt
that went through the floor (because it was outside and exposed to water
thrown up by the wheels). That was only a problem because Peugeot, in their
infinite wisdom (!!) had made the bolt with a semi-cylindrical notch in a
smooth *round* head, rather then making it hexagonal of the same size as the
wheel nuts. You were supposed to use a flattened end of the wheelbrace as a
crude screwdriver. Because the sides of the notch were curved, and not
vertical, I couldn't get any purchase on the "screw" and the "screwdriver"
just climbed out of the notch. That took an RAC man the best part of half an
hour to free up (*) - and then a minute or so to actually change the wheel
;-) After that, I loosened and greased the thread of the bolt every month
to prevent it happening again. That was a spectacularly poor bit of design:
I'd have used a nylon insert in the nut and/or a proper hexagonal head on
the bolt.


(*) He tried dousing it in WD40, heat and lots of cursing (!). Eventually he
tried angle-grinding a couple of flats on opposite sides of the head and
gripping it with a Mole grip - which meant that at last we could apply brute
force which unstuck it very easily.

On 02/12/2020 11:12, NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message


I *have* had a problem with the wire cradle that held the spare wheel
under the floor of the boot: the nut on the cradle got rusted onto the
long bolt that went through the floor (because it was outside and
exposed to water thrown up by the wheels). That was only a problem
because Peugeot, in their infinite wisdom (!!) had made the bolt with a
semi-cylindrical notch in a smooth *round* head, rather then making it
hexagonal of the same size as the wheel nuts. You were supposed to use a
flattened end of the wheelbrace as a crude screwdriver. Because the
sides of the notch were curved, and not vertical, I couldn't get any
purchase on the "screw" and the "screwdriver" just climbed out of the
notch. That took an RAC man the best part of half an hour to free up (*)
- and then a minute or so to actually change the wheel ;-)* After that,
I loosened and greased the thread of the bolt every month to prevent it
happening again. That was a spectacularly poor bit of design: I'd have
used a nylon insert in the nut and/or a proper hexagonal head on the bolt.


(*) He tried dousing it in WD40, heat and lots of cursing (!).
Eventually he tried angle-grinding a couple of flats on opposite sides
of the head and gripping it with a Mole grip - which meant that at last
we could apply brute force which unstuck it very easily.

Similar problem with nut/rust on the protruding threads of a Suzuki
Carry. Once I got it apart, apart from cleaning and greasing everything,
I found a length of plastic hose that was a push fit on the threads,
smeared them with grease, and slid the hose over the top.

On 02/12/2020 11:12, NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,


I *have* had a problem with the wire cradle that held the spare wheel
under the floor of the boot: eased the thread of the bolt every month to prevent it
happening again. That was a spectacularly poor bit of design: I'd have
used a nylon insert in the nut and/or a proper hexagonal head on the bolt.


Pal of mine went to wind down his spare wheel on getting a puncture only
to find it wasnt there, outcome was the winding mechanism has rusted
through and the wheel fallen out some time in the eight months since had
had new tyres fitted. #

Mike

On 02/12/2020 11:41, Muddymike wrote:
On 02/12/2020 11:12, NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,


I *have* had a problem with the wire cradle that held the spare wheel
under the floor of the boot: eased the thread of the bolt every month
to prevent it happening again. That was a spectacularly poor bit of
design: I'd have used a nylon insert in the nut and/or a proper
hexagonal head on the bolt.


Pal of mine went to wind down his spare wheel on getting a puncture only
to find it wasnt there, outcome was the winding mechanism has rusted
through and the wheel fallen out some time in the eight months since had
had new tyres fitted. #

Mike

Possibly, conveniently inside the tyre bay where the new tyres were
fitted. He'll never know the truth.

"Muddymike" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 02/12/2020 11:12, NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,


I *have* had a problem with the wire cradle that held the spare wheel
under the floor of the boot: eased the thread of the bolt every month to
prevent it happening again. That was a spectacularly poor bit of design:
I'd have used a nylon insert in the nut and/or a proper hexagonal head on
the bolt.


Pal of mine went to wind down his spare wheel on getting a puncture only
to find it wasnt there, outcome was the winding mechanism has rusted
through and the wheel fallen out some time in the eight months since had
had new tyres fitted. #

I had that happen with my car. I was driving along a country lane and I
suddenly heard a metallic grating sound. It was the cage rubbing on the
tarmac. Since it had only just happened, I turned round and drove back to
see if I could find it on the road or in a ditch, but I never did find it so
I had to buy a new one. Kwik Fit were used to supplying new tyres, but a new
wheel was a bit more of a challenge, though they managed to get one within a
couple of hours, ready for when I passed back through town later in the day.

The mechanism was fine - it hadn't rusted or been cut, and normally it was
kept in tension by having the wheel sandwiched between the cage and the boot
floor, so I'm not sure how it dropped down and released the wheel.

On 02/12/2020 12:25, NY wrote:
"Muddymike" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 02/12/2020 11:12, NY wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,


I *have* had a problem with the wire cradle that held the spare wheel
under the floor of the boot: eased the thread of the bolt every month
to prevent it happening again. That was a spectacularly poor bit of
design: I'd have used a nylon insert in the nut and/or a proper
hexagonal head on the bolt.


Pal of mine went to wind down his spare wheel on getting a puncture
only to find it wasnt there, outcome was the winding mechanism has
rusted through and the wheel fallen out some time in the eight months
since had had new tyres fitted. #

I had that happen with my car. I was driving along a country lane and I
suddenly heard a metallic grating sound. It was the cage rubbing on the
tarmac. Since it had only just happened, I turned round and drove back
to see if I could find it on the road or in a ditch, but I never did
find it so I had to buy a new one. Kwik Fit were used to supplying new
tyres, but a new wheel was a bit more of a challenge, though they
managed to get one within a couple of hours, ready for when I passed
back through town later in the day.

The mechanism was fine - it hadn't rusted or been cut, and normally it
was kept in tension by having the wheel sandwiched between the cage and
the boot floor, so I'm not sure how it dropped down and released the wheel.

Spare tyre had gone flat, allowing more movement, which eventually
allowed it to drop ?.

On 02/12/2020 12:25, NY wrote:
The mechanism was fine - it hadn't rusted or been cut, and normally it
was kept in tension by having the wheel sandwiched between the cage and
the boot floor, so I'm not sure how it dropped down and released the wheel.

The wheel had been stolen, and the cage screwed back only enough to stay
put for a couple of miles?


--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 11:12:15 -0000, "NY" wrote:

snip

I don't think I've ever had a problem with car wheels getting stuck to the
hub. And I've had at least one car that had alloy rather than steel wheels.

I never have but though it was a fairly common occurrence?

Mate took the ally wheels off his Peugeot 407 the other day, or tried
to (to change the brake disks and pads) and ended up with a length of
4x2 across the width of the car and hitting it with a club hammer
whilst another turned the wheel in stages to get them off.

I had the exact same issue on a mobility scooter (ally hub steel
wheel) and also ended up with a length of timber across the scooter
and a big hammer to get it to come off (and not just a few gentle
taps, quite a few fairly firm hits). It was obvious that the other
side had suffered previously but whoever took that wheel off used a
steel hammer directly on the rim. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On 2 Dec 2020 at 10:46:08 GMT, ""Dave Plowman" News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were stuck
on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off. The car was
supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow wheels
where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels and I
have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease stop
the wheels from being stuck on?

Yes. Something garages and tyre places never seem to do. Copper grease is
what I use.

I've read two opinions about copper grease on wheel nuts (or bolts). One is
that it is an excellent idea, and may make all the difference to the
feasibility of roadside wheel changes, as well as reducing corrosion. The
other is that it can lead to the nuts/bolts coming loose despite tightening to
the recommended torque. Any one have a view?


--
Roger Hayter

On 02/12/2020 11:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 2 Dec 2020 at 10:46:08 GMT, ""Dave Plowman" News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were stuck
on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off. The car was
supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow wheels
where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels and I
have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease stop
the wheels from being stuck on?

Yes. Something garages and tyre places never seem to do. Copper grease is
what I use.

I've read two opinions about copper grease on wheel nuts (or bolts). One is
that it is an excellent idea, and may make all the difference to the
feasibility of roadside wheel changes, as well as reducing corrosion. The
other is that it can lead to the nuts/bolts coming loose despite tightening to
the recommended torque. Any one have a view?



Copper grease goes on the hub/wheel contact areas not on the threads.

Mike

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
I've read two opinions about copper grease on wheel nuts (or bolts).
One is that it is an excellent idea, and may make all the difference to
the feasibility of roadside wheel changes, as well as reducing
corrosion. The other is that it can lead to the nuts/bolts coming
loose despite tightening to the recommended torque. Any one have a view?

Wheel fixings are generally massively over specced. They have to be, given
the gorillas in the average tyre place.

I've used copper grease on my SD1 wheel centres and studs for the past 30
odd years. If that was going to be a bad thing, I'd guess I'd know by now.

--
*IF ONE SYNCHRONIZED SWIMMER DROWNS, DO THE REST DROWN TOO?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/12/2020 13:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
I've read two opinions about copper grease on wheel nuts (or bolts).
One is that it is an excellent idea, and may make all the difference to
the feasibility of roadside wheel changes, as well as reducing
corrosion. The other is that it can lead to the nuts/bolts coming
loose despite tightening to the recommended torque. Any one have a view?

Wheel fixings are generally massively over specced. They have to be, given
the gorillas in the average tyre place.

I've used copper grease on my SD1 wheel centres and studs for the past 30
odd years. If that was going to be a bad thing, I'd guess I'd know by now.


Neighbour took the front wheel off a Zafira to fix a sticky
caliper recently. Car had been fitted with new front tyres for its MOT
by a KwikFit or similar.

He needed to use all his strength and weight on a ?4 foot bar to get
the wheel nuts undone.

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
Neighbour took the front wheel off a Zafira to fix a sticky
caliper recently. Car had been fitted with new front tyres for its MOT
by a KwikFit or similar.

He needed to use all his strength and weight on a ?4 foot bar to get
the wheel nuts undone.

Everyone says that it requires great strength to loosen wheel nuts/bolts,
but I've never had a problem, and I'm sure I'm not superhumanly strong. The
trick I was taught by my grandpa was to leave the flat wheel on the ground
(so it can't turn), stand sideways on facing backwards if it's a front wheel
or forwards if it's a rear wheel, grip the shaft of the (cranked) wheelbrace
with the hand further from the wheel, raise the foot closer to the wheel and
press down on the cranked part while simultaneously pulling up on the shaft
(to prevent the wheelbrace being pulled off the nut or bolt-head). Be
prepared to give the wheelbrace a bit of a kick if the nut is stuck. Once
the nut has turned slightly, jack the wheel up and loosen the nuts the rest
of the way by hand.

Not as easy to do with modern L-shaped wheelbraces...


Does anyone know why most (all?) car manufacturers changed at about the same
time (late 70s?) from using nuts onto studs in the hub, to bolts into holes
in the hub? The latter is a lot easier because you can "hang" the wheel from
the central protrusion in the hub, and rotate it until the holes in the
wheel line up with those in the hub, rather than having to simultaneously
locate all four holes in the wheel with the four protruding bolts on the
hub. Grandpa's other bit of advice: when removing or replacing the wheel,
squat down facing it with the knees apart, resting the forearms on the
inside of the thighs and the hands at about 8 and 4 o'clock on the wheel -
this provides support for the wheel while offering it up so small
adjustments can be made by moving the hands.

I remember I was once cycling home from school when I saw a very attractive
young female teacher (though she never taught me) from my school struggling
to change the wheel on her Moggie Minor. So I did the gentlemanly thing and
stopped to see if she needed any help - I worded it tactfully as "would you
like any help or can you manage?" so as not to assume that she *needed*
help. First brownie point for that! When she said that she wasn't strong
enough, I asked whether she'd like me to do it for her or to show her an
easier way, she chose to do it herself under my guidance. Second brownie
point for not just wading in and taking over! So I showed her grandpa's
patent method, tactfully looking away as her skirt rode up (OK, I did glance
at her thighs... several times!). She was very grateful. She came *this*
close to hugging me and giving me a kiss - then remembered that she was a
teacher and I was "only" a pupil. A memorable encounter...

On 02/12/2020 11:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 2 Dec 2020 at 10:46:08 GMT, ""Dave Plowman" News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were stuck
on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off. The car was
supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow wheels
where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels and I
have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease stop
the wheels from being stuck on?

Yes. Something garages and tyre places never seem to do. Copper grease is
what I use.

I've read two opinions about copper grease on wheel nuts (or bolts). One is
that it is an excellent idea, and may make all the difference to the
feasibility of roadside wheel changes, as well as reducing corrosion. The
other is that it can lead to the nuts/bolts coming loose despite tightening to
the recommended torque. Any one have a view?



I have stopped putting a little grease on the wheel bolts but I never
had a problem doing so. On my current car the bolts have to be done up
to 140nm. On an earlier version of the car the torque was 120nm. I
noticed that it was sometimes quite difficult to undo the bolts even
with my normal breaker bar, so as I was not sure how I would get on with
the tools that came with the car I bought a socket and long breaker bar
to keep in the car by the spare wheel.

--
Michael Chare

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
I have stopped putting a little grease on the wheel bolts but I never
had a problem doing so. On my current car the bolts have to be done up
to 140nm. On an earlier version of the car the torque was 120nm. I
noticed that it was sometimes quite difficult to undo the bolts even
with my normal breaker bar, so as I was not sure how I would get on with
the tools that came with the car I bought a socket and long breaker bar
to keep in the car by the spare wheel.

You can buy a nice telescopic wheel brace. On minimum about the same size
as the car one so fits the tool kit or whatever. Fully extended about the
same size as a breaker bar. Mine came with a reversible socket for two
common sizes - but is a standard 1/2" square drive anyway. As of course
the old car isn't a modern size.

--
*Funny, I don't remember being absent minded.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/12/2020 16:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
I have stopped putting a little grease on the wheel bolts but I never
had a problem doing so. On my current car the bolts have to be done up
to 140nm. On an earlier version of the car the torque was 120nm. I
noticed that it was sometimes quite difficult to undo the bolts even
with my normal breaker bar, so as I was not sure how I would get on with
the tools that came with the car I bought a socket and long breaker bar
to keep in the car by the spare wheel.

You can buy a nice telescopic wheel brace. On minimum about the same size
as the car one so fits the tool kit or whatever. Fully extended about the
same size as a breaker bar. Mine came with a reversible socket for two
common sizes - but is a standard 1/2" square drive anyway. As of course
the old car isn't a modern size.

+1, I keep one under the seat of my Renault Master ever since the first
time I had to change a wheel.

On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 16:28:59 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
I have stopped putting a little grease on the wheel bolts but I never
had a problem doing so. On my current car the bolts have to be done up
to 140nm. On an earlier version of the car the torque was 120nm. I
noticed that it was sometimes quite difficult to undo the bolts even
with my normal breaker bar, so as I was not sure how I would get on with
the tools that came with the car I bought a socket and long breaker bar
to keep in the car by the spare wheel.

You can buy a nice telescopic wheel brace. On minimum about the same size
as the car one so fits the tool kit or whatever. Fully extended about the
same size as a breaker bar. Mine came with a reversible socket for two
common sizes - but is a standard 1/2" square drive anyway.

+1, safely located in the under-load-bay on the Meriva. Previously I
carried a folding 'spider' brace and whilst you could get quite a bit
of power on it by lifting one side and pushing down on the other (arms
out straight from above and mainly using your upper-body / shoulders),
I don't think it has the power of the telescopic one.

As of course
the old car isn't a modern size.

Yeah, but as you say, being 1/2" sqdr I carry additional sockets as
needed for the various trailers etc.

Cheers, T i m

On 2 Dec 2020 at 11:20:22 GMT, "Jethro_uk" wrote:

On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 11:13:46 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:

On 2 Dec 2020 at 10:46:08 GMT, ""Dave Plowman" News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were
stuck on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off. The
car was supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow
wheels where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels
and I have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease
stop the wheels from being stuck on?

Yes. Something garages and tyre places never seem to do. Copper grease
is what I use.

I've read two opinions about copper grease on wheel nuts (or bolts).
One is that it is an excellent idea, and may make all the difference to
the feasibility of roadside wheel changes, as well as reducing
corrosion. The other is that it can lead to the nuts/bolts coming
loose despite tightening to the recommended torque. Any one have a
view?

Usually the specs for each bolt state whether the torque is to be applied
to a dry bolt or coated bolt. There shouldn't be a need to guess.

This is stated in official workshop manuals for cars, is it? I must admit
that in the secondary literature (including Haynes manuals) I have used I have
only ever seen it mentioned for cylinder head bolts.

--
Roger Hayter

On 02/12/2020 12:49, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 2 Dec 2020 at 11:20:22 GMT, "Jethro_uk" wrote:

On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 11:13:46 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:

On 2 Dec 2020 at 10:46:08 GMT, ""Dave Plowman" News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were
stuck on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off. The
car was supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow
wheels where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels
and I have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease
stop the wheels from being stuck on?

Yes. Something garages and tyre places never seem to do. Copper grease
is what I use.

I've read two opinions about copper grease on wheel nuts (or bolts).
One is that it is an excellent idea, and may make all the difference to
the feasibility of roadside wheel changes, as well as reducing
corrosion. The other is that it can lead to the nuts/bolts coming
loose despite tightening to the recommended torque. Any one have a
view?

Usually the specs for each bolt state whether the torque is to be applied
to a dry bolt or coated bolt. There shouldn't be a need to guess.

This is stated in official workshop manuals for cars, is it? I must admit
that in the secondary literature (including Haynes manuals) I have used I have
only ever seen it mentioned for cylinder head bolts.

Yes. mostly it is


--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

In article ,
Roger Hayter wrote:
Usually the specs for each bolt state whether the torque is to be applied
to a dry bolt or coated bolt. There shouldn't be a need to guess.

This is stated in official workshop manuals for cars, is it? I must
admit that in the secondary literature (including Haynes manuals) I have
used I have only ever seen it mentioned for cylinder head bolts.

On the early Rover V8, the Rover manual stated to use a thread
sealer/lubricant on the head bolts. And indeed every other thread into
alluminium. Later BL manuals omitted this sealer (dunno why) but the
torque setting the same. Even later versions used stretch bolts.

--
*There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 02/12/2020 12:49:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 2 Dec 2020 at 11:20:22 GMT, "Jethro_uk" wrote:

On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 11:13:46 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:

On 2 Dec 2020 at 10:46:08 GMT, ""Dave Plowman" News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were
stuck on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off. The
car was supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow
wheels where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels
and I have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease
stop the wheels from being stuck on?

Yes. Something garages and tyre places never seem to do. Copper grease
is what I use.

I've read two opinions about copper grease on wheel nuts (or bolts).
One is that it is an excellent idea, and may make all the difference to
the feasibility of roadside wheel changes, as well as reducing
corrosion. The other is that it can lead to the nuts/bolts coming
loose despite tightening to the recommended torque. Any one have a
view?

Usually the specs for each bolt state whether the torque is to be applied
to a dry bolt or coated bolt. There shouldn't be a need to guess.

This is stated in official workshop manuals for cars, is it? I must admit
that in the secondary literature (including Haynes manuals) I have used I have
only ever seen it mentioned for cylinder head bolts.

My owner's manual gives a warning, "Do not grease wheel bolt, wheel
nut and wheel nut cone".

However, where there is a central locating lug I would be happy to place
a smear of copper grease on this to prevent corrosion and subsequent
stiction.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote on 02/12/2020 :
Yes. Something garages and tyre places never seem to do. Copper grease is
what I use.

Yep, copper grease. You only need to smear it where the alloy
interfaces tightly against the hub, by the studs. You will only need to
do it once and it lasts for years.

On 02/12/2020 10:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Michael Chare wrote:
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last
three years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were stuck
on and I had to pull has hard as I could to get them off. The car was
supported by a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow wheels
where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had
this problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels and I
have never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease stop
the wheels from being stuck on?

Yes. Something garages and tyre places never seem to do. Copper grease is
what I use.


I had 2 new tyres at a Halfords Autocentre where they greased the hubs.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Rust? So one wonders if the type of alloy has changed or maybe any plating
on the nuts has worn off.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
I have put different wheels with winter tyres on my car for the last three
years. This year I found that all 4 of the allow wheels were stuck on and I
had to pull has hard as I could to get them off. The car was supported by
a trolley jack.

Looking at the wheels there are signs of iron rust on the allow wheels
where they are held to the wheels hubs by the bolts.

After using google it looks like I am not the only person to have had this
problem. Nearly all my previous vehicles had had steel wheels and I have
never know one to be stuck on.

Would smearing the hub or the wheel with copper or silicone grease stop
the wheels from being stuck on?


--
Michael Chare

In article ,
Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:
Rust? So one wonders if the type of alloy has changed or maybe any plating
on the nuts has worn off.


Brian, the wheel is located by a collar on the hub. The studs or bolts
merely holding it on. It's between the hub and wheel where the corrosion
occurs, jamming it on.

--
*Marathon runners with bad footwear suffer the agony of defeat*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.