My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at £12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs
for £8, are these any good?

--
Chris Green
·

On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:00:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at £12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs for
£8, are these any good?

Chris,

Sonoff? there are 10A & 16A ones - simple if you reflash with tasmota (or
similar). Just a web page hosted on the switch to toggle the state of
the output relay.

With out a reflash works via a 3rd party server somewhere ?china?

Regards

Avpx

--
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'.
(The Last
Continent)
10:25:01 up 4 days, 19:37, 11 users, load average: 6.02, 5.72, 5.69

The Nomad wrote:
Sonoff? there are 10A & 16A ones - simple if you reflash with tasmota (or
similar). Just a web page hosted on the switch to toggle the state of
the output relay.

https://github.com/tmarkettos/sensor_smartplug
is the reflash procedure (been doing some more of these at work). A little
bit fiddly but not that hard. At least with those with the older firmware
you don't need to take them apart to reflash.

https://templates.blakadder.com/
lists the devices Tasmota works with, with Amazon links.

With out a reflash works via a 3rd party server somewhere ?china?

....and longevity is at the whim of the provider of the server.

Theo

Chris Green presented the following explanation :
There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

I bought 8x of these -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2Pack-Sma...53.m2749.l2649

All 8x are now in use on switching small loads, I don't know how well
they may cope with a full 3Kw load.

I am using them with Alexa, but originally set up with SmartLife. A
problem I noted with Alexa, is that if it fails to operate the switch
it just ignores that fact. The system knows it has failed to carry out
the operation, but just moves on regardless.

I had problems with a SM in my garage which is separate and a little
way from the house, with poor wifi due to a metal roof. Sometimes it
would fail to turn on, sometimes it would fail to turn off. Pinging
produced 40 to 90% success result.

Since then, I have added a wifi repeater in a hut, midway beween house
and garage. I then had to 're-pair' the garage SM to the new repeater.
I have only had that working for 7 days, but ping shows 99.98% success
and now reliable operation of the SM.

I have the SM's doing various regular tasks - switching my drive lights
on at dusk, off at 11pm; switching battery chargers on/off to boost;
Switching remote network printers on/off; electric blanket on/off;
Latest is switching two lots of Christmas lights on/off at dusk/11pm.

On the whole, much better than the way I used to do things, with time
switches, solar ties switches and RF remote controls. The SM's / Alexa
work much better and are controllable from almost anywhere, plus will
consume less watts I suspect.

On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:00:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

snip

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at £12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs
for £8, are these any good?

I recently bought an Amazon Alexa? smart switch thing (on offer) and I
have it working from the app (easy) or from voice (not quite so
predictable) but haven't used it for anything yet.

I was thinking of using it to power the 3D printer so I can turn it
off remotely, once I see it's finish printing (via webcam).

I have Alexa built into the Portal (Mini) and don't generally leave it
on but could, if I could work out how to use the voice commands to
control things like this smart switch.

Cheers, T i m

The Nomad wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:00:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at £12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs for
£8, are these any good?

Chris,

Sonoff? there are 10A & 16A ones - simple if you reflash with tasmota (or
similar). Just a web page hosted on the switch to toggle the state of
the output relay.

Doesn't that require a hole in the firewall to allow access from
outside one's LAN?


With out a reflash works via a 3rd party server somewhere ?china?

Sounds even less secure! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

On Monday, 23 November 2020 at 12:33:07 UTC, Chris Green wrote:
The Nomad wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:00:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at £12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs for
£8, are these any good?

Chris,

Sonoff? there are 10A & 16A ones - simple if you reflash with tasmota (or
similar). Just a web page hosted on the switch to toggle the state of
the output relay.

Doesn't that require a hole in the firewall to allow access from
outside one's LAN?
With out a reflash works via a 3rd party server somewhere ?china?

Sounds even less secure! :-)

--
Chris Green
·
I have several of these and they are simple to install, no hub required, fit a 25mm deep back box you can control each socket separately Alexa can control them too. In Alexa when you do a device search two instances of the named socket will appear you will have to rename them in Alexa eg. left/right.. Only drawback is the illuminated buttons are difficult to see in normal light and the brightness control for them is not very effective.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-g...et-white/306hv

Richard

On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:00:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use


Waiting for one of these
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B082W9F69G to arrive today so no
insights yet. Want it to control a CCTV monitot that doesn't need to
be on all the time. (Got a movement sensor on order to go with it but
desipte it being the same brand it's coming from another supplier. And
Amazon's delivering to Leicester from Northamton today. Only need
Coventry and we'll have had deliveries from all four points of the
compass, more or less.)

Tricky Dicky wrote:
I have several of these and they are simple to install, no hub required,
fit a 25mm deep back box you can control each socket separately Alexa can
control them too. In Alexa when you do a device search two instances of
the named socket will appear you will have to rename them in Alexa eg.
left/right. Only drawback is the illuminated buttons are difficult to see
in normal light and the brightness control for them is not very effective.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-g...et-white/306hv

Ah, thank you, they're the British General ones which I mentioned.

No Alexa here, we don't want it either, it'll just be Android app.

--
Chris Green
·

What no Amazon Echo ones? I myself have given up on the stand alone remote
control ones as they seem to lose range as they age. No point in a remote
switch you need to hold within 6in to operate the plug.
I'd be interested in some that I can use with the echo dot and wifi, no
need for any special hubs etc, even better if there was an iphone app as
well.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at £12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs
for £8, are these any good?

--
Chris Green
·

That seems a ridculous waste of the internet. How come they are not sold
flashed to work locally?
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Nomad" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:00:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at £12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs for
£8, are these any good?

Chris,

Sonoff? there are 10A & 16A ones - simple if you reflash with tasmota (or
similar). Just a web page hosted on the switch to toggle the state of
the output relay.

With out a reflash works via a 3rd party server somewhere ?china?

Regards

Avpx

--
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'.
(The Last
Continent)
10:25:01 up 4 days, 19:37, 11 users, load average: 6.02, 5.72, 5.69

Are the buttons tactile? I'd not care about the lights. I'm thinking of
replacing a switched spur with one for the new shed, erm workroom I'm
planning.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 23 November 2020 at 12:33:07 UTC, Chris Green wrote:
The Nomad wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:00:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at £12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs for
£8, are these any good?

Chris,

Sonoff? there are 10A & 16A ones - simple if you reflash with tasmota
(or
similar). Just a web page hosted on the switch to toggle the state of
the output relay.

Doesn't that require a hole in the firewall to allow access from
outside one's LAN?
With out a reflash works via a 3rd party server somewhere ?china?

Sounds even less secure! :-)

--
Chris Green
·
I have several of these and they are simple to install, no hub required, fit
a 25mm deep back box you can control each socket separately Alexa can
control them too. In Alexa when you do a device search two instances of the
named socket will appear you will have to rename them in Alexa eg.
left/right. Only drawback is the illuminated buttons are difficult to see in
normal light and the brightness control for them is not very effective.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-g...et-white/306hv

Richard

You can turn off the listening in you know and change the wake word.
Is it really any less secure than a mobile which also has a camera as well
as a microphone?
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Chris Green" wrote in message
...
Tricky Dicky wrote:
I have several of these and they are simple to install, no hub required,
fit a 25mm deep back box you can control each socket separately Alexa can
control them too. In Alexa when you do a device search two instances of
the named socket will appear you will have to rename them in Alexa eg.
left/right. Only drawback is the illuminated buttons are difficult to see
in normal light and the brightness control for them is not very
effective.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-g...et-white/306hv

Ah, thank you, they're the British General ones which I mentioned.

No Alexa here, we don't want it either, it'll just be Android app.

--
Chris Green
·

"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote:
You can turn off the listening in you know and change the wake word.
Is it really any less secure than a mobile which also has a camera as well
as a microphone?

We simply don't *have* any Alexa! :-) ... and I don't use a
smartphone (my wife does, hence the original request).

Which takes me on to.... Are there any smart devices which can be
controlled via the web or which even have a published interface so one
can write one's own programs for controlling them?

--
Chris Green
·

"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote:
That seems a ridculous waste of the internet. How come they are not sold
flashed to work locally?

Because, as I see it, you'd have to make a hole in your firewall to
enable control from 'outside'. What I assume happens is that both
your phone app *and* the smart device talk a server on the cloud (i.e.
that's a 'outward' connection) and communicate that way.

--
Chris Green
·

In article ,
Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:
What no Amazon Echo ones? I myself have given up on the stand alone remote
control ones as they seem to lose range as they age. No point in a remote
switch you need to hold within 6in to operate the plug.

I've got a cheap set of two 'plugs' with one remote used only for the Xmas
lights. Must be 15 years old, and worked OK last year.

--
*My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 23/11/2020 10:00, Chris Green wrote:
My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at £12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs
for £8, are these any good?

Local B&Q were doing 2 of these TCP ones for £20 last week. I bought a
pair and they seem to meet your requirements

https://www.screwfix.com/p/tcp-wissi...ug-white/231hk


--
Chris B (News)

Brian Gaff (Sofa) submitted this idea :
That seems a ridculous waste of the internet. How come they are not sold
flashed to work locally?

To operate them, a server needs to be running all the time they might
need to be sent operating instructions. Most people do not have a
server running 24/7.

Brian Gaff (Sofa) submitted this idea :
What no Amazon Echo ones? I myself have given up on the stand alone remote
control ones as they seem to lose range as they age. No point in a remote
switch you need to hold within 6in to operate the plug.
I'd be interested in some that I can use with the echo dot and wifi, no need
for any special hubs etc, even better if there was an iphone app as well.

I have all of that! I can set up operation 'routines' to control things
automatically, so long as I have Internet and my routers in operation.
In addition, I have manual control via my Iphone, via my PC via voice
command to Alexa and I could probably control via voice to my TV., plus
voice with my PC.

On 23/11/2020 10:00, Chris Green wrote:
My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at £12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs
for £8, are these any good?



I have the TCP one from Screwfix installed. It's really easy.

I also have an Amazon smart plug, which is easy to control from Alexa,
and it has been switching a 2Kw fire on and off without any apparent
difficulty.

I have a couple of Sonoff devices. What I suggest is that you set up a
guest account on your wifi, and stick all the home automation stuff on
that.

On 2020-11-23, GB wrote:
On 23/11/2020 10:00, Chris Green wrote:
My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at ??12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs
for ??8, are these any good?



I have the TCP one from Screwfix installed. It's really easy.

I also have an Amazon smart plug, which is easy to control from Alexa,
and it has been switching a 2Kw fire on and off without any apparent
difficulty.

I have a couple of Sonoff devices. What I suggest is that you set up a
guest account on your wifi, and stick all the home automation stuff on
that.

Just curious, how do you tell the plug what WiFi SSID to connect to and
what the access code is?

On 23/11/2020 21:33:50, Jim Jackson wrote:
On 2020-11-23, GB wrote:
On 23/11/2020 10:00, Chris Green wrote:
My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at ??12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs
for ??8, are these any good?



I have the TCP one from Screwfix installed. It's really easy.

I also have an Amazon smart plug, which is easy to control from Alexa,
and it has been switching a 2Kw fire on and off without any apparent
difficulty.

I have a couple of Sonoff devices. What I suggest is that you set up a
guest account on your wifi, and stick all the home automation stuff on
that.

Just curious, how do you tell the plug what WiFi SSID to connect to and
what the access code is?

I may be wrong but I expect the app on your phone will contact the Smart
Plug on some default channel and after the appropriate interaction by
pressing down the power button the app will download to the device the
required details such as SSID.

https://www.bgelectrical.uk/public/d...er%20Guide.pdf

On 23/11/2020 10:27, The Nomad wrote:
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 10:00:06 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

My wife wants to turn on/off a heater in her cabin and thus a 'smart
plug' would seem to be the obvious way to do it.

There are loads of them out there now from various suppliers, so I'm
after recommendations for easy to use, not too expensive and likely to
be reasonably future proof ones.

The requirements are fairly simple:-

WiFi connection from LAN (in cabin)

Control from android phone

Reasonably cheap

Easy to configure and use

Hive looks like overkill and requires an expensive hub. Screwfix have
both a TCP branded one and a British General one at £12, does anyone
have any experience of these? Finally Tesco have Calex Smart Plugs for
£8, are these any good?

Chris,

Sonoff? there are 10A & 16A ones - simple if you reflash with tasmota (or
similar). Just a web page hosted on the switch to toggle the state of
the output relay.

With out a reflash works via a 3rd party server somewhere ?china?

I used an unflashed sonoff for a while, but the china server (ewelink)
changed it's protocols one day requiring a software reinstall. So I
flashed them with Tasmota. I still haven't got around to getting Tasmota
working with OK Google.

AIUI they make the newer sonoffs easier to flash, i.e. can be flashed
via wifi rather than via usb/wires on to the pcb?

Jim Jackson wrote :
Just curious, how do you tell the plug what WiFi SSID to connect to and
what the access code is?

In my case...

Run the Smart Life app on my Iphone. Make sure my Iphone is connected
to the wifi Access Point I want to connect the plug to (1).

Press the button on the side of the plug for 5 seconds to get the blue
LED to flash quickly (there is a slow flash mode for something else).

In the Smart Life app, set it to search for the plug, when it finds it,
just type in the wifi password. The flashing stops and stays on
solidly.

Alexa will then also find and list the Smart Plug.

(1) I have three wifi AP's. Two of my Samart Plugs connect via one AP
repeater, that repeater then connects via wifi to my main wifi router.

In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Jim Jackson wrote :
Just curious, how do you tell the plug what WiFi SSID to connect to and
what the access code is?

In my case...

Run the Smart Life app on my Iphone. Make sure my Iphone is connected
to the wifi Access Point I want to connect the plug to (1).

Press the button on the side of the plug for 5 seconds to get the blue
LED to flash quickly (there is a slow flash mode for something else).

In the Smart Life app, set it to search for the plug, when it finds it,
just type in the wifi password. The flashing stops and stays on
solidly.

Alexa will then also find and list the Smart Plug.

(1) I have three wifi AP's. Two of my Samart Plugs connect via one AP
repeater, that repeater then connects via wifi to my main wifi router.

Hmm. Time for us Luddites to leave the party!

While I am here.. why on earth is a plastic card superior to a key fob
in connection with security and convenience when linked to a motor
vehicle?

--
Tim Lamb

Pancho wrote:
AIUI they make the newer sonoffs easier to flash, i.e. can be flashed
via wifi rather than via usb/wires on to the pcb?

I'm not sure about the sonoffs, but some of the other sockets have a recent
firmware update that blocks wifi reflashing:
https://github.com/ct-Open-Source/tu...SK-Identity-02

I've been buying Maxcio UK-W007S which are wifi reflashable and can be
unscrewed:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07BWFB55Q/
while yesterday I received these and couldn't make them wifi reflash:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08HWGS52H/

Theo

On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:16:57 +0000, Tim Lamb
wrote:

snip

Hmm. Time for us Luddites to leave the party!

snip

;-)

I think it's one of those things where you either have a need and then
get something like this to fulfil it or you are interested in playing
with a smart switch and might already have say an Alexa or Google Home
equipped phone or tablet (or Echo / Home units etc).

If *you* (as in Mr Lamb) wanted to turn an appliance on and off (that
you couldn't access easily / remotely) you would be better off with
one of the basic remote switches that comes with a physical remote
controller with 4 / 8 buttons and mating plug adaptor. One remote can
often control 4 sockets, handy to be able to turn on / off different
things, like Xmyth light controllers buried under the tree or HiFi
components in a busy rack.

When you go 'Smart', you can also make use of the smart functions and
have things turned on and off from a schedule or from external
triggers.

Like when my mate opens the front door his Amazon Echo stuff turns the
hall light on. The hall light isn't linked to the door or alarm in any
(physical) way, so the hall light can also be controlled from the app,
schedule (security) or by voice ... 'Alexa, hall light on 50%'.

Not generally something we couldn't do without, but can be handy if
you want to traverse the hall in the dark and have your hands full.
;-)

I'm not sure I'd want to rely on anything important being driven by a
schedule held on the Net, but I'm sure many do.

I bought an Amazon Smart Switch and found it very easy to link up to
my WiFi (though their app on my smartphone) and on there you get a
soft On/Off button or can say, 'Alexa, turn thing on' etc (I renamed
the plug 'Thing' during the setup).

Only really any fun if you 1) like that sort of thing, 2) already have
some of the kit (or it can get expensive) or 3) have a need where
'that solution' is the best / cheapest / most flexible one.

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
While I am here.. why on earth is a plastic card superior to a key fob
in connection with security and convenience when linked to a motor
vehicle?

It's cheaper.

--
*You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Tim Lamb wrote:
While I am here.. why on earth is a plastic card superior to a key fob
in connection with security and convenience when linked to a motor
vehicle?

The RFID card fits in your wallet or phone case, unlike the RFID shaped like
an old-fashioned metal key or a plastic box of matches, which doesn't?

(given that some go out with just a phone, a bank card, a house and a car
key, especially when their clothes never seem to come with pockets)

Theo

Pancho wrote:

AIUI they make the newer sonoffs easier to flash, i.e. can be flashed
via wifi rather than via usb/wires on to the pcb?

I think you need to buy the "Sonoff R3 DIY" and similar models for that.

On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 11:02:34 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

While I am here.. why on earth is a plastic card superior to a key
fob
in connection with security and convenience when linked to a motor

vehicle?

It's cheaper.

Easier to keep in your wallet? My "car key" stays in a pocket only
need to push a button on it to lock/unlock the car. Presumably a
plastic card doesn't have buttons and the car locks/unlocks on the
proximty of said card?

--
Cheers
Dave.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
While I am here.. why on earth is a plastic card superior to a key fob
in connection with security and convenience when linked to a motor
vehicle?

It's cheaper.

Cheaper for whom?


--
Tim Lamb

In message , Theo
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:
While I am here.. why on earth is a plastic card superior to a key fob
in connection with security and convenience when linked to a motor
vehicle?

The RFID card fits in your wallet or phone case, unlike the RFID shaped like
an old-fashioned metal key or a plastic box of matches, which doesn't?

(given that some go out with just a phone, a bank card, a house and a car
key, especially when their clothes never seem to come with pockets)

OK. You have all covered the convenience bit/ enhanced sales. Security?

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb wrote:
OK. You have all covered the convenience bit/ enhanced sales. Security?

It's not a whole lot different from existing keyless entry - where your
matchbox keyfob talks RF to the car so it's unlocked when you approach it.
Simply that the form factor is made more convenient.

Such systems have a couple of risk factors - one is the relay attack where
your key is sitting on a shelf in the hall, so the miscreant walks up to the
front door, and the accomplice walks up to the car, and use radio repeaters
to pass the signals over a longer distance. I haven't followed this attack
since it became possible about 15 years ago, but I'd hope the manufacturers
defend against it now (you can do it by bounding time-of-flight).

The other is somebody mugs you and forces you against the car to unlock it.
But they could have just made you operate the keyfob at knife/gunpoint
anyway.

One thing I don't know is what you do if your battery is flat - you don't
have the mechanical key that can be used to open the door and pop the
bonnet to get in to jump start. Maybe there's another way?

Theo

On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 14:32:35 +0000, Theo wrote:

Tim Lamb wrote:
OK. You have all covered the convenience bit/ enhanced sales. Security?

It's not a whole lot different from existing keyless entry - where your
matchbox keyfob talks RF to the car so it's unlocked when you approach
it. Simply that the form factor is made more convenient.

Such systems have a couple of risk factors - one is the relay attack
where your key is sitting on a shelf in the hall, so the miscreant walks
up to the front door, and the accomplice walks up to the car, and use
radio repeaters to pass the signals over a longer distance. I haven't
followed this attack since it became possible about 15 years ago, but
I'd hope the manufacturers defend against it now (you can do it by
bounding time-of-flight).

The other is somebody mugs you and forces you against the car to unlock
it. But they could have just made you operate the keyfob at
knife/gunpoint anyway.

One thing I don't know is what you do if your battery is flat - you
don't have the mechanical key that can be used to open the door and pop
the bonnet to get in to jump start. Maybe there's another way?

Yes, that's OK with my keyfob at least. There is an emergency key inside
it.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article ,
T i m wrote:
If *you* (as in Mr Lamb) wanted to turn an appliance on and off (that
you couldn't access easily / remotely) you would be better off with
one of the basic remote switches that comes with a physical remote
controller with 4 / 8 buttons and mating plug adaptor. One remote can
often control 4 sockets, handy to be able to turn on / off different
things, like Xmyth light controllers buried under the tree or HiFi
components in a busy rack.

Thing with that is you have to find the remote. Many will carry their
mobile with them at all times. Even in bed. ;-)

--
*Who is this General Failure chap anyway - and why is he reading my HD? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Theo wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
While I am here.. why on earth is a plastic card superior to a key fob
in connection with security and convenience when linked to a motor
vehicle?

The RFID card fits in your wallet or phone case, unlike the RFID shaped
like an old-fashioned metal key or a plastic box of matches, which
doesn't?

You carry a wallet? How very 20th century.

(given that some go out with just a phone, a bank card, a house and a car
key, especially when their clothes never seem to come with pockets)

You can get a card which opens your car and house?

--
*I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
While I am here.. why on earth is a plastic card superior to a key fob
in connection with security and convenience when linked to a motor
vehicle?

It's cheaper.

Cheaper for whom?

Well, a mate was charged £400 for a new key for an Audi. After losing one.

Are you saying a spare card would cost as much?


--
*My wife has a slight impediment in her speech. She stops to breathe.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 24 November 2020 at 14:32:42 UTC, Theo wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:


Such systems have a couple of risk factors - one is the relay attack where
your key is sitting on a shelf in the hall, so the miscreant walks up to the
front door, and the accomplice walks up to the car, and use radio repeaters
to pass the signals over a longer distance. I haven't followed this attack
since it became possible about 15 years ago, but I'd hope the manufacturers
defend against it now (you can do it by bounding time-of-flight).

The other is somebody mugs you and forces you against the car to unlock it.
But they could have just made you operate the keyfob at knife/gunpoint
anyway.



Theo
On my Kuga the doors will not open unless you actually touch the car, so I do not think a simple relay attack will work. The second scenario is obviously a risk. The other convenience we have is the powered tail lift which will open if you have the fob in the vicinity and wave your foot under the rear bumper which might succumb to a relay attack.

Richard

Tricky Dicky wrote:
On my Kuga the doors will not open unless you actually touch the car, so I
do not think a simple relay attack will work.

Why can't the accomplice touch the car when their mate has the radio up
against your front door?

That does defeat the additional scenario where the accomplice wanders
around the car park looking for the car whose lights flash, but if the car
is parked on your drive then they know which car to target anyway.

Theo