I have just put some hard drives back into service, I never throw them out but when my Linux unit failed I dragged out one I had in storage
for about four years.

It failed too along with about five others that were with it.

They will repair using a mint installation DVD, but I end up with filesystem faults after anything from a few hours to a few days. Is this a
known problem? I thought disk drives would be like anything else really and not suddenly give trouble after being used out of the storage
box.

Only one reports "bad sectors".

M.A.L



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On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:49:31 -0500, Malc wrote:

I have just put some hard drives back into service, I never throw them
out but when my Linux unit failed I dragged out one I had in storage for
about four years.

It failed too along with about five others that were with it.

They will repair using a mint installation DVD, but I end up with
filesystem faults after anything from a few hours to a few days. Is this
a known problem? I thought disk drives would be like anything else
really and not suddenly give trouble after being used out of the storage
box.

Only one reports "bad sectors".

Depends how they were stored. I found that some I stored where they got
very cold ( 0deg C) never worked again.

I now store them in fairly even temperatures.



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On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:49:31 -0500, Malc wrote:

I have just put some hard drives back into service, I never throw them
out but when my Linux unit failed I dragged out one I had in storage
for about four years.

It failed too along with about five others that were with it.

They will repair using a mint installation DVD, but I end up with
filesystem faults after anything from a few hours to a few days. Is
this a known problem? I thought disk drives would be like anything else
really and not suddenly give trouble after being used out of the
storage box.

Only one reports "bad sectors".

Depends how they were stored. I found that some I stored where they got
very cold ( 0deg C) never worked again.

I now store them in fairly even temperatures.

Thank you. I would not have thought that freezing point would be a problem, but they would have hit that temperature a few times.

I know know! Although I suppose HDD's are going out of favour now anyway.


Thanks

Malc
--

On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 16:38:17 -0500, Malc wrote:

On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 14:49:31 -0500, Malc wrote:

I have just put some hard drives back into service, I never throw them
out but when my Linux unit failed I dragged out one I had in storage
for about four years.

It failed too along with about five others that were with it.

They will repair using a mint installation DVD, but I end up with
filesystem faults after anything from a few hours to a few days. Is
this a known problem? I thought disk drives would be like anything
else really and not suddenly give trouble after being used out of the
storage box.

Only one reports "bad sectors".

Depends how they were stored. I found that some I stored where they got
very cold ( 0deg C) never worked again.

I now store them in fairly even temperatures.

Thank you. I would not have thought that freezing point would be a
problem, but they would have hit that temperature a few times.

I know know! Although I suppose HDD's are going out of favour now
anyway.

It's always a good idea to let them acclimatise for a day or so before
spinning them up. Althiugh I did that with mine anyway.



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On Sunday, 13 September 2020 20:49:40 UTC+1, Malc wrote:

I have just put some hard drives back into service, I never throw them out but when my Linux unit failed I dragged out one I had in storage
for about four years.

It failed too along with about five others that were with it.

They will repair using a mint installation DVD,

that seems to imply the HDDs haven't failed. Please clarify.

but I end up with filesystem faults after anything from a few hours to a few days. Is this a
known problem?

yes it means a bad HDD (yes other causes are not impossible).

I thought disk drives would be like anything else really and not suddenly give trouble after being used out of the storage
box.

HDDs have limited life. Reusing old ones mostly works, but not all.


Only one reports "bad sectors".

M.A.L

If you have a HDD that goes wrong after being repartitioned & formatted, time to get rid.


NT

Malc wrote:
I have just put some hard drives back into service, I never throw them out but when my Linux unit failed I dragged out one I had in storage
for about four years.

It failed too along with about five others that were with it.

They will repair using a mint installation DVD, but I end up with filesystem faults after anything from a few hours to a few days. Is this a
known problem? I thought disk drives would be like anything else really and not suddenly give trouble after being used out of the storage
box.

Only one reports "bad sectors".

M.A.L

On Linux, something like:

sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda

On Windows, use HDTune free version and the Health
tab, to examine the SMART table of information. This program
is now 12 years old. There is this free version and there
is a paid version which is constantly reissued. This free
version does the all-important read benchmark, which is a
good adjunct to the SMART info (it helps cover off the
shortcomings of how SMART works).

http://hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

The image at the bottom of this picture, shows a Health
display, with the two (bogus) yellow marks that all my
drives show. The Reallocated and Current Pending on the example
seem to be zero.

https://i.postimg.cc/nc7w0Chr/HDTune-ST3500418-AS.gif

Running a read benchmark using the Benchmark tab, if there
are significant dips in transfer speed (10MB/sec for a 50GB swath),
that's also an indicator that sectors were spared out
and you may have a bad patch.

*******

Storing a drive in a place with widely varying temperature
causes the breather hole on the drive to "breath". The hole
equalizes atmospheric pressure. If the chassis of the drive
is at a different pressure, air either moves in or out, as
appropriate. The filter on the hole is a hepafilter, but it's
still possible for humidity to work its way through.

Now, say this is a garage. Maybe the air is humid, and the
temperature varies widely. Humid air enters the drive,
the humid air condenses on the platter surface. The platter
rusts (for lack of a better word).

OK, so I didn't take care of my drive for ten years. What
should I do ?

Bring the drive in from the garage, into your heated house.
As long as the humidity in the house is below 60%, when the
drive breathes in and out over the next month, the net
humidity level inside the drive may drop.

After a month, give the drive a try and see if it still behaves
strangely.

The platters are plated and the "working bit" is the very top layer.
I haven't seen a list of what the metal layers consist of, to
advise what might happen to it.

The newer drives have a magnetic "keeper" layer just below the
plating, and that part completes the magnetic circuit for the
vertically oriented bits stored there. The flying height of
the newer drives is very very low. A patent warns that the
flying height might be 3nm. Whereas it uses to be 10u or 1u or
so. A MFM scan shows the tracks have a height of 2nm (this could
be a scanning artifact). The topography situations is about as
close to a crash landing as they can arrange. The arm is very stiff,
which is part of the reason the heads don't crash all that readily.
However, when it comes to foreign materials sitting on the platter,
the room for them to go "under" the heads, is zero. Everything is
crash material, including frost.

After the disk collection has acclimatized, I'd give them a try.
I would recommend storage in a box with a desiccant, but not many
people have a ready supply of desiccant handy, so that would be
silly.

The newer Helium drives, you don't have to worry about stuff
getting in, because the breather hole is gone. The exposure
with them, is that the Helium escapes. And it doesn't really
matter whether they loaf in the garage or in the house,
eventually the Helium has to get out of those. We just
don't know at the moment, what the leakage rate is.

At least one of the Helium drives, has a sensor in the
SMART table that says something about the "gas situation".
But again, no tech details are available as to what kind
of sensor, and whether we should trust what it indicates.
So far I have zero Helium drives (I've been careful not
to buy them by accident). It's not that I don't like science
experiments, it's that they make so many science experiments
I can't keep up. For example, there's a new drive out with
two arms, that runs 500MB/sec total. But I don't really think
it's fit for consumers. If I was a "collector", I'd definitely
have to buy one...

Paul

On 13/09/2020 20:49, Malc wrote:

I have just put some hard drives back into service, I never throw them out but when my Linux unit failed I dragged out one I had in storage
for about four years.

It failed too along with about five others that were with it.

They will repair using a mint installation DVD, but I end up with filesystem faults after anything from a few hours to a few days. Is this a
known problem? I thought disk drives would be like anything else really and not suddenly give trouble after being used out of the storage
box.


Well disks are probably the worst for failing whilst a spare, but
anything in the storage box can fail. Capacitors dry out, for things
with moving parts the lubricants thicken and go gooey.

If several disks give the same problem, perhaps its not the disks, but
what you are connecting them to. Could be bad RAM or bad IDE controller?
I think I would be trying some long running memory tests...

Only one reports "bad sectors".


Typically modern drives don't report bad sectors. The controller on the
drive re-maps them and only reports bad when it runs out of spares.
Have you checked the SMART data?

M.A.L




Dave

On Monday, 14 September 2020 04:48:21 UTC+1, Paul wrote:

After the disk collection has acclimatized, I'd give them a try.
I would recommend storage in a box with a desiccant, but not many
people have a ready supply of desiccant handy, so that would be
silly.

Silica gel cat litter is cheap (if you shop around) and readily
available. It may be partially saturated with water when you buy it,
so bake it in the oven for a few hours at about 120degC, spread out
thinly over a baking tray.

John

Probably depends on the drive and how old it is and one of the worst places
to store drives ins an unheated outbuilding or a loft, the temperature
cycling seems to make them less reliable. What size drives and what vintage,
Are we talking IDE here?
Brian

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"Malc" wrote in message
...

I have just put some hard drives back into service, I never throw them out
but when my Linux unit failed I dragged out one I had in storage
for about four years.

It failed too along with about five others that were with it.

They will repair using a mint installation DVD, but I end up with
filesystem faults after anything from a few hours to a few days. Is this a
known problem? I thought disk drives would be like anything else really
and not suddenly give trouble after being used out of the storage
box.

Only one reports "bad sectors".

M.A.L



--
Devolution for Nantwich NOW!!

On 13/09/2020 20:49, Malc wrote:

I have just put some hard drives back into service, I never throw them out but when my Linux unit failed I dragged out one I had in storage
for about four years.

It failed too along with about five others that were with it.

They will repair using a mint installation DVD, but I end up with filesystem faults after anything from a few hours to a few days. Is this a
known problem? I thought disk drives would be like anything else really and not suddenly give trouble after being used out of the storage
box.

Only one reports "bad sectors".

M.A.L



use SMART to analyse the failures.Its impossible to say what might be wrong.

--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 23:48:13 -0400, Paul wrote:


On Linux, something like:

sudo smartctl -a /dev/sda

Also available for Windows.
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On Monday, 14 September 2020 04:48:21 UTC+1, Paul wrote:

After the disk collection has acclimatized, I'd give them a try.
I would recommend storage in a box with a desiccant, but not many
people have a ready supply of desiccant handy, so that would be
silly.

Salt.


NT

On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 18:48:33 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Salt.

.... leading to a rH of 75%.


Thomas Prufer

On 13/09/2020 20:49, Malc wrote:

I have just put some hard drives back into service, I never throw them
out but when my Linux unit failed I dragged out one I had in storage
for about four years.

It failed too along with about five others that were with it.

They will repair using a mint installation DVD, but I end up with
filesystem faults after anything from a few hours to a few days. Is
this a known problem? I thought disk drives would be like anything else
really and not suddenly give trouble after being used out of the
storage box.

Only one reports "bad sectors".

M.A.L



use SMART to analyse the failures.Its impossible to say what might be
wrong.

Thank you everyone that responded.

Maybe moisture is the problem. this drive im using now was given a filesystem repair last week and its still fine.

I dismembered two and have kept the others. They are now in the house so Ill try em in a week or so.

Thank you everyone.

Malc



--
Devolution for Nantwich NOW!!

On 16/09/2020 21:10, Malc wrote:
On 13/09/2020 20:49, Malc wrote:

I have just put some hard drives back into service, I never throw them
out but when my Linux unit failed I dragged out one I had in storage
for about four years.

It failed too along with about five others that were with it.

They will repair using a mint installation DVD, but I end up with
filesystem faults after anything from a few hours to a few days. Is
this a known problem? I thought disk drives would be like anything else
really and not suddenly give trouble after being used out of the
storage box.

Only one reports "bad sectors".

M.A.L



use SMART to analyse the failures.Its impossible to say what might be
wrong.

Thank you everyone that responded.

Maybe moisture is the problem. this drive im using now was given a filesystem repair last week and its still fine.

hard drives are hermetically sealed. Temperature is more likely an
issue, as platters expand, coupled with worn bearings that can make
older drives unpredictable when cold, but once there is the least hint
of an issue, chuck them. Life is too short.

I dismembered two and have kept the others. They are now in the house so Ill try em in a week or so.

Thank you everyone.

Malc





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the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:38:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Maybe moisture is the problem. this drive im using now was given a
filesystem repair last week and its still fine.

hard drives are hermetically sealed. Temperature is more likely an
issue,
as platters expand, coupled with worn bearings that can make older
drives unpredictable when cold, but once there is the least hint of an
issue, chuck them. Life is too short.

Apart from the breather hole.

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On 17/09/2020 14:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:38:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Maybe moisture is the problem. this drive im using now was given a
filesystem repair last week and its still fine.

hard drives are hermetically sealed. Temperature is more likely an
issue,
as platters expand, coupled with worn bearings that can make older
drives unpredictable when cold, but once there is the least hint of an
issue, chuck them. Life is too short.

Apart from the breather hole.

no breather holes on mine. Helium filled too. Some of them


--
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This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:08:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/09/2020 14:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:38:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Maybe moisture is the problem. this drive im using now was given a
filesystem repair last week and its still fine.

hard drives are hermetically sealed. Temperature is more likely an
issue,
as platters expand, coupled with worn bearings that can make older
drives unpredictable when cold, but once there is the least hint of an
issue, chuck them. Life is too short.

Apart from the breather hole.

no breather holes on mine. Helium filled too. Some of them

Unlikely for the OP's, though.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:08:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/09/2020 14:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:38:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Maybe moisture is the problem. this drive im using now was given a
filesystem repair last week and its still fine.

hard drives are hermetically sealed. Temperature is more likely an
issue,
as platters expand, coupled with worn bearings that can make older
drives unpredictable when cold, but once there is the least hint of
an issue, chuck them. Life is too short.

Apart from the breather hole.

no breather holes on mine. Helium filled too. Some of them

Unlikely for the OP's, though.



That is right. The HD's are old. I bought a lot 2nd hand when everyone upgraded from XP.

I did use a few, but most were boxed.

Maybe someone clunked them with a hammer if they were old company stock.

Oh well I have nothing of value on them.

M.A.J

On 20/09/2020 03:19, Malc wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 17:08:22 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 17/09/2020 14:12, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:38:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Maybe moisture is the problem. this drive im using now was given a
filesystem repair last week and its still fine.

hard drives are hermetically sealed. Temperature is more likely an
issue,
as platters expand, coupled with worn bearings that can make older
drives unpredictable when cold, but once there is the least hint of
an issue, chuck them. Life is too short.

Apart from the breather hole.

no breather holes on mine. Helium filled too. Some of them

Unlikely for the OP's, though.



That is right. The HD's are old. I bought a lot 2nd hand when everyone upgraded from XP.

I did use a few, but most were boxed.

Maybe someone clunked them with a hammer if they were old company stock.

Oh well I have nothing of value on them.

M.A.J

Of all the things in computers I learnt to not keep, old hard drives
were the first.

after 5 years they are 50% liable to go phut without warning, and the
cost of a new one of probably 5 times the capacity is less than you
think anyway

And now SSDS are the thing, who wants a low capacity HDD, anyway?


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and people tell those stories because everyone important believes them.
Indeed, when a conventional wisdom is at its fullest strength, ones
agreement with that conventional wisdom becomes almost a litmus test of
ones suitability to be taken seriously.€�

Paul Krugman