Outside loo sadly had the original Thomas T cast iron cistern replaced
with an ugly plastic one - I'd guess in the 50s. Pan is original
Victorian, though. When I decorated, I boxed the cistern in.

But it needs replacing. And I'd like something which looks good on its
own. A cast iron one beyond my means - but a good looking white porcelain
one would be fine.

Done lots of Googling, and they seem to vary from under 100 to 1000 quid.
Found some nice looking ones on Ebay, but they all seem to be a kit with
toilet pan.

Ideally, it would be porcelain with fancy support brackets supplied.

Going by supplied pics ain't that great, so advice from someone who's seen
what I want in the flesh appreciated.

--
*It's this dirty because I washed it with your wife's knickers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Outside loo sadly had the original Thomas T cast iron cistern replaced
with an ugly plastic one - I'd guess in the 50s. Pan is original
Victorian, though. When I decorated, I boxed the cistern in.

But it needs replacing. And I'd like something which looks good on its
own. A cast iron one beyond my means - but a good looking white porcelain
one would be fine.

Done lots of Googling, and they seem to vary from under 100 to 1000 quid.
Found some nice looking ones on Ebay, but they all seem to be a kit with
toilet pan.

Ideally, it would be porcelain with fancy support brackets supplied.

Going by supplied pics ain't that great, so advice from someone who's seen
what I want in the flesh appreciated.


Dont give up on cast iron.

I know someone who got an old one from a salvage yard for a song. It was in
a terrible state but he had it sand or bead blasted, found an inner cistern
which fitted inside (the old one probably wouldnt hold water), treated the
cast iron with the modern equivalent of red lead, painted it etc, and it
looked original. It complimented the patterned original toilet with a
wooden seat perfectly. It is a delight to use it! I understand the whole
job cost a few hundred, including getting a plumber to fit it as he wanted
it done perfectly.

On 13/09/2020 13:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Outside loo sadly had the original Thomas T cast iron cistern replaced
with an ugly plastic one - I'd guess in the 50s. Pan is original
Victorian, though. When I decorated, I boxed the cistern in.

But it needs replacing. And I'd like something which looks good on its
own. A cast iron one beyond my means - but a good looking white porcelain
one would be fine.

Done lots of Googling, and they seem to vary from under 100 to 1000 quid.
Found some nice looking ones on Ebay, but they all seem to be a kit with
toilet pan.

If decent and within your price range just use the cistern and re-sell
the pan?

Ideally, it would be porcelain with fancy support brackets supplied.

Going by supplied pics ain't that great, so advice from someone who's seen
what I want in the flesh appreciated.

Go fishtank.
http://site-120576.mozfiles.com/file...ium/bandb2.jpg
;O)

Note this is only posted as a 'joke' not a fan of complete water changes
to cold water (not room temp) and the water that fills the cistern is
usually chlorinated (Usually allowed for in having de-chlorination
chemicals added or the water allowed time to 'off-gas the Chlorine
naturally before fish are added).

Seriously reclamation yard is perhaps your best hope. There is bound to
be someone out there that makes them new but they will probably charge
an arm and a leg.

On 13/09/2020 14:31, Radio Man wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Outside loo sadly had the original Thomas T cast iron cistern replaced
with an ugly plastic one - I'd guess in the 50s. Pan is original
Victorian, though. When I decorated, I boxed the cistern in.

But it needs replacing. And I'd like something which looks good on its
own. A cast iron one beyond my means - but a good looking white porcelain
one would be fine.

Done lots of Googling, and they seem to vary from under 100 to 1000 quid.
Found some nice looking ones on Ebay, but they all seem to be a kit with
toilet pan.

Ideally, it would be porcelain with fancy support brackets supplied.

Going by supplied pics ain't that great, so advice from someone who's seen
what I want in the flesh appreciated.


Dont give up on cast iron.

I know someone who got an old one from a salvage yard for a song. It was in
a terrible state but he had it sand or bead blasted, found an inner cistern
which fitted inside (the old one probably wouldnt hold water), treated the
cast iron with the modern equivalent of red lead, painted it etc, and it
looked original. It complimented the patterned original toilet with a
wooden seat perfectly. It is a delight to use it! I understand the whole
job cost a few hundred, including getting a plumber to fit it as he wanted
it done perfectly.

FWIW I would probably be looking at salvage yard too.

Although when I needed to replace a plastic cistern for a non-close
coupled modern pan I found it as cheap (and much neater) to replace the
whole lot with Wickes "basics" close coupled unit.

In article ,
Radio Man wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Outside loo sadly had the original Thomas T cast iron cistern replaced
with an ugly plastic one - I'd guess in the 50s. Pan is original
Victorian, though. When I decorated, I boxed the cistern in.

But it needs replacing. And I'd like something which looks good on its
own. A cast iron one beyond my means - but a good looking white
porcelain one would be fine.

Done lots of Googling, and they seem to vary from under 100 to 1000
quid. Found some nice looking ones on Ebay, but they all seem to be a
kit with toilet pan.

Ideally, it would be porcelain with fancy support brackets supplied.

Going by supplied pics ain't that great, so advice from someone who's
seen what I want in the flesh appreciated.


Don‘t give up on cast iron.

I know someone who got an old one from a salvage yard for a song. It was
in a terrible state but he had it sand or bead blasted, found an inner
cistern which fitted inside (the old one probably wouldn‘t hold water),
treated the cast iron with the modern equivalent of red lead, painted it
etc, and it looked original. It complimented the patterned original
toilet with a wooden seat perfectly. It is a delight to use it! I
understand the whole job cost a few hundred, including getting a plumber
to fit it as he wanted it done perfectly.

Far too much work, I'm afraid. Had it been the original I'd very likely
have been up for overhauling it. But sourcing another and them having to
do it all up more than I can be bothered with.

Thing is the loo had been modernised to an extent. All walls tiled, and a
hand wash basin fitted. The loo itself has the waste exiting downwards
into the concrete floor and as I say is original Victorian. Changing to a
complete new modern one likely a lot of extra work - and leg room would be
tight if it were moved out from the end wall.

I'm sure I could repair the existing one - but think a white porcelain one
would look rather better than the boxed in existing. The snag being most
seem to supply the bare cistern only (fine as a like for like
replacement). Ornate brackets and the other bits needed come as a fitting
kit with chrome downpipe. And cost more than the cistern. And I don't need
the chrome downpipe.

--
*War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Radio Man wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Outside loo sadly had the original Thomas T cast iron cistern replaced
with an ugly plastic one - I'd guess in the 50s. Pan is original
Victorian, though. When I decorated, I boxed the cistern in.

But it needs replacing. And I'd like something which looks good on its
own. A cast iron one beyond my means - but a good looking white
porcelain one would be fine.

Done lots of Googling, and they seem to vary from under 100 to 1000
quid. Found some nice looking ones on Ebay, but they all seem to be a
kit with toilet pan.

Ideally, it would be porcelain with fancy support brackets supplied.

Going by supplied pics ain't that great, so advice from someone who's
seen what I want in the flesh appreciated.


Don‘t give up on cast iron.

I know someone who got an old one from a salvage yard for a song. It was
in a terrible state but he had it sand or bead blasted, found an inner
cistern which fitted inside (the old one probably wouldn‘t hold water),
treated the cast iron with the modern equivalent of red lead, painted it
etc, and it looked original. It complimented the patterned original
toilet with a wooden seat perfectly. It is a delight to use it! I
understand the whole job cost a few hundred, including getting a plumber
to fit it as he wanted it done perfectly.

Far too much work, I'm afraid. Had it been the original I'd very likely
have been up for overhauling it. But sourcing another and them having to
do it all up more than I can be bothered with.

Thing is the loo had been modernised to an extent. All walls tiled, and a
hand wash basin fitted. The loo itself has the waste exiting downwards
into the concrete floor and as I say is original Victorian. Changing to a
complete new modern one likely a lot of extra work - and leg room would be
tight if it were moved out from the end wall.

I'm sure I could repair the existing one - but think a white porcelain one
would look rather better than the boxed in existing. The snag being most
seem to supply the bare cistern only (fine as a like for like
replacement). Ornate brackets and the other bits needed come as a fitting
kit with chrome downpipe. And cost more than the cistern. And I don't need
the chrome downpipe.


Fair enough. In the case I mentioned, the objective was to achieve
something in keeping with the throne.

On 14/09/2020 17:20, Radio Man wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Radio Man wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Outside loo sadly had the original Thomas T cast iron cistern replaced
with an ugly plastic one - I'd guess in the 50s. Pan is original
Victorian, though. When I decorated, I boxed the cistern in.

But it needs replacing. And I'd like something which looks good on its
own. A cast iron one beyond my means - but a good looking white
porcelain one would be fine.

Done lots of Googling, and they seem to vary from under 100 to 1000
quid. Found some nice looking ones on Ebay, but they all seem to be a
kit with toilet pan.

Ideally, it would be porcelain with fancy support brackets supplied.

Going by supplied pics ain't that great, so advice from someone who's
seen what I want in the flesh appreciated.


Don‘t give up on cast iron.

I know someone who got an old one from a salvage yard for a song. It was
in a terrible state but he had it sand or bead blasted, found an inner
cistern which fitted inside (the old one probably wouldn‘t hold water),
treated the cast iron with the modern equivalent of red lead, painted it
etc, and it looked original. It complimented the patterned original
toilet with a wooden seat perfectly. It is a delight to use it! I
understand the whole job cost a few hundred, including getting a plumber
to fit it as he wanted it done perfectly.

Far too much work, I'm afraid. Had it been the original I'd very likely
have been up for overhauling it. But sourcing another and them having to
do it all up more than I can be bothered with.

Thing is the loo had been modernised to an extent. All walls tiled, and a
hand wash basin fitted. The loo itself has the waste exiting downwards
into the concrete floor and as I say is original Victorian. Changing to a
complete new modern one likely a lot of extra work - and leg room would be
tight if it were moved out from the end wall.

I'm sure I could repair the existing one - but think a white porcelain one
would look rather better than the boxed in existing. The snag being most
seem to supply the bare cistern only (fine as a like for like
replacement). Ornate brackets and the other bits needed come as a fitting
kit with chrome downpipe. And cost more than the cistern. And I don't need
the chrome downpipe.


Fair enough. In the case I mentioned, the objective was to achieve
something in keeping with the throne.



I wouldn't bother trying to help....

In article ,
Radio Man wrote:
Don‘t give up on cast iron.

I know someone who got an old one from a salvage yard for a song. It
was in a terrible state but he had it sand or bead blasted, found an
inner cistern which fitted inside (the old one probably wouldn‘t hold
water), treated the cast iron with the modern equivalent of red lead,
painted it etc, and it looked original. It complimented the patterned
original toilet with a wooden seat perfectly. It is a delight to use
it! I understand the whole job cost a few hundred, including getting
a plumber to fit it as he wanted it done perfectly.

Far too much work, I'm afraid. Had it been the original I'd very
likely have been up for overhauling it. But sourcing another and them
having to do it all up more than I can be bothered with.

Thing is the loo had been modernised to an extent. All walls tiled,
and a hand wash basin fitted. The loo itself has the waste exiting
downwards into the concrete floor and as I say is original Victorian.
Changing to a complete new modern one likely a lot of extra work - and
leg room would be tight if it were moved out from the end wall.

I'm sure I could repair the existing one - but think a white porcelain
one would look rather better than the boxed in existing. The snag
being most seem to supply the bare cistern only (fine as a like for
like replacement). Ornate brackets and the other bits needed come as a
fitting kit with chrome downpipe. And cost more than the cistern. And
I don't need the chrome downpipe.


Fair enough. In the case I mentioned, the objective was to achieve
something in keeping with the throne.

I've seen porcelain Victorian ones too.

Copies - or similar - seem to be available. As are ally ones - at a price.
Not come across new cast iron, though.

--
*There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I've ordered up a white porcelain one from Scewfix. From a maker I've
heard of - Ideal Standard. If they are still the same company, that is.
They weren't the cheapest, but more upfront about what comes with it.
Others seem to sell the bare cistern and expect you to search their site
for all the other bits needed.

--
*There's no place like www.home.com *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

One for you inventive types.

Decided to remove the old cistern before the new arrives. Disconnected it
all, and emptied it using my trusty old wet and dry vacuum.

But I'm not sure I can take the weight on my own. And local pals who I'd
normally call on for help away on holiday.

Suggestions on how to do it on your own welcome. I'll be tiling the wall
afterwards, so some extra holes in that won't matter.

It is secured by two large hex head screws going into the wall just inside
the top of it.

--
*Pentium wise, pen and paper foolish *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
One for you inventive types.

Decided to remove the old cistern before the new arrives. Disconnected it
all, and emptied it using my trusty old wet and dry vacuum.

But I'm not sure I can take the weight on my own. And local pals who I'd
normally call on for help away on holiday.

Suggestions on how to do it on your own welcome. I'll be tiling the wall
afterwards, so some extra holes in that won't matter.

It is secured by two large hex head screws going into the wall just inside
the top of it.

Prop it up while you remove the screws? A ceramic cistern is not that
heavy.


--
Tim Lamb

In article ,
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
One for you inventive types.

Decided to remove the old cistern before the new arrives. Disconnected it
all, and emptied it using my trusty old wet and dry vacuum.

But I'm not sure I can take the weight on my own. And local pals who I'd
normally call on for help away on holiday.

Suggestions on how to do it on your own welcome. I'll be tiling the wall
afterwards, so some extra holes in that won't matter.

It is secured by two large hex head screws going into the wall just inside
the top of it.

Prop it up while you remove the screws? A ceramic cistern is not that
heavy.

Bit difficult as there is an original thunder box under it.

Think screwing some large brackets to the wall (brick) under it may be the
way. Or just wait until I can get some help.

Did wonder about rope and a hook screwed into a ceiling joist. But hoped
someone had a really good way that would tickle my fancy. ;-)

--
*I took an IQ test and the results were negative.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
One for you inventive types.

Decided to remove the old cistern before the new arrives.

Disconnected it
all, and emptied it using my trusty old wet and dry vacuum.

But I'm not sure I can take the weight on my own. And local pals who I'd
normally call on for help away on holiday.


The old cistern is plastic.

The new one is porcelain.

As the new one is going to be considerably heavier than the old one,
you will definitely need help with that in any case. So what's the
big hurry ?

Isn't it a case of looking at an old cistern, or looking at a
wall with two holes in it (assuming you manage to get it down o.k)
until your pals return from holiday ?

Or as its plastic, at a pinch can't you saw bits off in situ, so as to
lighten it ?



michael adams

....

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
One for you inventive types.

Decided to remove the old cistern before the new arrives.

Disconnected it
all, and emptied it using my trusty old wet and dry vacuum.

But I'm not sure I can take the weight on my own. And local pals who I'd
normally call on for help away on holiday.


The old cistern is plastic.

The new one is porcelain.

As the new one is going to be considerably heavier than the old one,
you will definitely need help with that in any case. So what's the
big hurry ?

Isn't it a case of looking at an old cistern, or looking at a
wall with two holes in it (assuming you manage to get it down o.k)
until your pals return from holiday ?

Or as its plastic, at a pinch can't you saw bits off in situ, so as to
lighten it ?

It isn't just the weight however, But the fact that injudicious
stretching over the toilet bowl to lift the things in a confined
space may be required.

Injudicious stretching can have dire consequences.

Approaching a set of traffic lights on the bike in order not to
dismount I reached out my left arm to grab the pole. Result
excruciating pain, but not with the arm bent, fortunately.
Howver after a few days a double bicep muscle on my left arm
became evident.
Walking down a wet cobbled slipway by the river, and falling
and sliding down feet forwards. An excruciating pain in the small
of my back which went after about ten minutes and a pain in my
left thigh. After a few days two muscles in my left thigh.
Fortunately neither injury seems to have had any effect on basic
strength. "Popeye" muscles I believe they're called.
Apparently such muscles can be rebuilt at huge cost, of both
time and money. As it they're cheaper than tattoos.
What would have happened had I been carrying any sort of object
while perched over a porcelain cistern heaven knows.
A block and tackle directly above for both operations would
seem the best bet IMHO. Bearing in mind that installing that
may also require a bit of stretching.


michael adams

....

In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
One for you inventive types.

Decided to remove the old cistern before the new arrives.

Disconnected it
all, and emptied it using my trusty old wet and dry vacuum.

But I'm not sure I can take the weight on my own. And local pals who I'd
normally call on for help away on holiday.


The old cistern is plastic.

Think I was wrong about that. As it was black. It appears to be ceramic.
But too modern looking.

The new one is porcelain.

As the new one is going to be considerably heavier than the old one,
you will definitely need help with that in any case. So what's the
big hurry ?

I'm going to tile the wall before the new is fitted.

Isn't it a case of looking at an old cistern, or looking at a
wall with two holes in it (assuming you manage to get it down o.k)
until your pals return from holiday ?

Or as its plastic, at a pinch can't you saw bits off in situ, so as to
lighten it ?



michael adams

...

--
*Jokes about German sausage are the wurst.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
michael adams wrote:

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
One for you inventive types.

Decided to remove the old cistern before the new arrives.

Disconnected it
all, and emptied it using my trusty old wet and dry vacuum.

But I'm not sure I can take the weight on my own. And local pals who I'd
normally call on for help away on holiday.


The old cistern is plastic.

The new one is porcelain.

As the new one is going to be considerably heavier than the old one,
you will definitely need help with that in any case. So what's the
big hurry ?

Isn't it a case of looking at an old cistern, or looking at a
wall with two holes in it (assuming you manage to get it down o.k)
until your pals return from holiday ?

Or as its plastic, at a pinch can't you saw bits off in situ, so as to
lighten it ?

It isn't just the weight however, But the fact that injudicious
stretching over the toilet bowl to lift the things in a confined
space may be required.

Injudicious stretching can have dire consequences.

Exactly so, Michael. I'm a lot more careful about hurting myself than once
was the case. The older you get the longer it takes for such things to
heal.

Approaching a set of traffic lights on the bike in order not to
dismount I reached out my left arm to grab the pole. Result
excruciating pain, but not with the arm bent, fortunately.
Howver after a few days a double bicep muscle on my left arm
became evident.
Walking down a wet cobbled slipway by the river, and falling
and sliding down feet forwards. An excruciating pain in the small
of my back which went after about ten minutes and a pain in my
left thigh. After a few days two muscles in my left thigh.
Fortunately neither injury seems to have had any effect on basic
strength. "Popeye" muscles I believe they're called.
Apparently such muscles can be rebuilt at huge cost, of both
time and money. As it they're cheaper than tattoos.
What would have happened had I been carrying any sort of object
while perched over a porcelain cistern heaven knows.
A block and tackle directly above for both operations would
seem the best bet IMHO. Bearing in mind that installing that
may also require a bit of stretching.

The new one weighs about 30 kg. I'm thinking a single eye hook screwed
into a ceiling joist would easily take the weight. And I've got a Haltrack
hoist somewhere. But a single rope would likely be fine.

--
*When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Injudicious stretching can have dire consequences.

Exactly so, Michael. I'm a lot more careful about hurting myself than once
was the case. The older you get the longer it takes for such things to
heal.

I find its mainly lifting things with the arms outstretched -
which would be the case reaching across a toilet bowl, you'd
be cantilevering that weight using shoulder and back muscles
which potentially could cause all sorts of problems. Rather
than being able to get directly underneath and keeping
things compact.

The new one weighs about 30 kg. I'm thinking a single eye hook screwed
into a ceiling joist would easily take the weight. And I've got
a Haltrack hoist somewhere. But a single rope would likely be fine.

A ratchet hoist would be ideal. A rope around the sides of the cistern
tied at the side. And then another rope looped through that, at the top.
So with an old bit of carpet over the pan to prevent any damage
on the way up or down. One man job.

Its sounds a lot of bother but maybe preferable to the alternative.


michael adams

....







--
*When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Must be 30 years since I last fitted a new cistern.

I was expecting holes either side of it, one for feed, one for overflow.
But only one - and no sign of a knockout. But oddly, does include a
blanking plug in the kit of parts. Given only one place for the feed, just
what is the purpose of that? And of course the feed is on the other side
from the old one. And since it comes down from the ceiling, I'm going to
have to remove the plaster board to make a neat job. Ah well.

So how does the overflow work? Built into the flushing unit?

The float unit is a Torbeck valve. All plastic. Last time I fitted one of
those had problems getting a seal to copper. And it's going to need a 90
degree as close to the tank as possible, since the cistern is near the
corner.

--
*If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 20/09/2020 11:39, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Must be 30 years since I last fitted a new cistern.

I was expecting holes either side of it, one for feed, one for overflow.
But only one - and no sign of a knockout. But oddly, does include a
blanking plug in the kit of parts. Given only one place for the feed, just
what is the purpose of that? And of course the feed is on the other side
from the old one. And since it comes down from the ceiling, I'm going to
have to remove the plaster board to make a neat job. Ah well.

So how does the overflow work? Built into the flushing unit?

The float unit is a Torbeck valve. All plastic. Last time I fitted one of
those had problems getting a seal to copper. And it's going to need a 90
degree as close to the tank as possible, since the cistern is near the
corner.


You can get 90 degree connectors like this
https://www.screwfix.com/p/compressi...r-15mm-x/28793
- or solder or push-fit equivalents - which should do the job.

I don't like plastic threads on fill valves either, and have had one or
two disintegrate and leak. You could always replace the supplied Torbeck
valve with something like this
https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluidmast...ll-valve/49088

--
Cheers,
Roger

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
On 20/09/2020 11:39, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Must be 30 years since I last fitted a new cistern.

I was expecting holes either side of it, one for feed, one for
overflow. But only one - and no sign of a knockout. But oddly, does
include a blanking plug in the kit of parts. Given only one place for
the feed, just what is the purpose of that? And of course the feed is
on the other side from the old one. And since it comes down from the
ceiling, I'm going to have to remove the plaster board to make a neat
job. Ah well.

So how does the overflow work? Built into the flushing unit?

The float unit is a Torbeck valve. All plastic. Last time I fitted one
of those had problems getting a seal to copper. And it's going to need
a 90 degree as close to the tank as possible, since the cistern is
near the corner.


You can get 90 degree connectors like this
https://www.screwfix.com/p/compressi...r-15mm-x/28793
- or solder or push-fit equivalents - which should do the job.

I don't like plastic threads on fill valves either, and have had one or
two disintegrate and leak. You could always replace the supplied Torbeck
valve with something like this
https://www.screwfix.com/p/fluidmast...ll-valve/49088

Thanks, Roger, I may well do. Given this cistern wasn't exactly cheap, was
quite surprised at the flimsy internals.

--
*(on a baby-size shirt) "Party -- my crib -- two a.m

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.