One of our toilets is sometimes proving difficult to flush, sometimes requiring several pulls on the handle to get the siphon working. Its a close coupled system so is going to need to be completely dismantled in order to replace the siphon unit.

I was just going to go with a Thomas Dudley Turbo 88 unit because of the ability to service it without removing the down pipe.

While looking through the Screwfix offerings, I noticed that the push button versions look a lot more compact (I assume the buttons are designed to fit in standard lever holes). e.g. https://www.screwfix.com/p/thomas-du...sh-valve/5120f

Are the push types better (not sure how they work) from a reliability point of view, generally regarded as better or should I just stick with a like for like (ish) replacement?

Thanks

Alan

On 8 Sep 2020 at 15:29:07 BST, "AlanC" wrote:

One of our toilets is sometimes proving difficult to flush, sometimes
requiring several pulls on the handle to get the siphon working. Its a close
coupled system so is going to need to be completely dismantled in order to
replace the siphon unit.

I was just going to go with a Thomas Dudley Turbo 88 unit because of the
ability to service it without removing the down pipe.

While looking through the Screwfix offerings, I noticed that the push button
versions look a lot more compact (I assume the buttons are designed to fit in
standard lever holes). e.g.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/thomas-du...sh-valve/5120f

Are the push types better (not sure how they work) from a reliability point
of view, generally regarded as better or should I just stick with a like for
like (ish) replacement?

Thanks

Alan

I've not used that type of push-button, but the one that we have takes
considerable finger strength to operate. A lever would be much easier if
anyone has any hand weakness, pain or arthritis.

--
Roger Hayter

On 08/09/2020 15:29, AlanC wrote:

Are the push types better (not sure how they work) from a reliability point of view, generally regarded as better or should I just stick with a like for like (ish) replacement?

We've 5 few push ones (couple of shops, I don't live in a mansion).

They've been no bother although the oldest of them (a good few years
now) has an issue where on a full flush it doesn't close after emptying
the cistern. You've to push and release the button again until you hear
a 'plunk'.

In message ,
AlanC writes
One of our toilets is sometimes proving difficult to flush, sometimes
requiring several pulls on the handle to get the siphon working. Its a
close coupled system so is going to need to be completely dismantled in
order to replace the siphon unit.

I was just going to go with a Thomas Dudley Turbo 88 unit because of
the ability to service it without removing the down pipe.

While looking through the Screwfix offerings, I noticed that the push
button versions look a lot more compact (I assume the buttons are
designed to fit in standard lever holes). e.g.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/thomas-du...e-operated-dua
l-flush-valve/5120f

Are the push types better (not sure how they work) from a reliability
point of view, generally regarded as better or should I just stick with
a like for like (ish) replacement?

Thanks

Alan

I've been through a very similar exercise. With a close-coupled system
replacement can be a pig of a job - especially if nothing has been
touched for many years, and the bolts holding the cistern to the bowl
have become rusted. [Fortunately. mine were just loosenable.]

The original syphon was a 10" Dudley S9B Hi-Flo - a one-piece unit
(hence the necessity to remove the cistern), and I was determined to fit
a two-piece unit - where if you need to replace the diaphragm, the
cylinder and piston part can be removed in a couple of minutes.

In addition, I wanted to do away with the external overflow pipe (which
goes through the bottom of the cistern, on the left). and let the siphon
'spillover' discharge into the bowl (which is what most modern toilets
do these days).

Finally, the 'cranking handle' goes through a hole on the right side of
the cistern (near the top) - but as it isn't watertight, I had to make
sure that siphon spillover was not too high, and yet not too low so that
there was insufficient water in the cistern even when it was full.

The three-piece Dudley Turbo 88 (which detachable and also
height-adjustable) would have been ideal, but unfortunately it seemed
just too large for the cistern. So instead I had to opt for the smaller
Turbo 44 - which is available in a range of fixed heights (in half inch
steps). After many sessions of careful measurements of the water level,
I got an 8" unit - which (surprisingly) turned out to be spot-on.

Just a couple of additional comments:
1. Looking at the Turbo 44, it seems that it could have easily been made
height-adjustable (like the 88).
2. I found it very difficult (and, in most cases, totally impossible) to
find out the dimensions of the various types of toilet siphons. I
estimated that the 44 would be very similar to the S9B Hi-Flo - and it
actually turned out to be exactly the same. The only manufacturer who
gives them is Viva (superb!).
https://www.vivasanitary.co.uk/media/679362/AS013P.pdf
Unfortunately, all of theirs seemed too big.
All the other manufacturers' information is minimal at best - and in
most cases, virtually non-existent.
--
Ian

On 08/09/2020 16:38, Ian Jackson wrote:

I've been through a very similar exercise. With a close-coupled system
replacement can be a pig of a job

Yes.
Had a leaky one lately. Looked like the doughnut had never been properly
in place and probably leaked since day one.
Pain of a job, especially in an enclosed space.


I've 2 close coupled ones now as I bought another a while ago (prior to
fixing the above), you don't buy toilets often do you, so in my case at
least was unprepared having not given it much thought but knowing what I
do now i'd not have another.

Removing a cistern is a major problem it the nuts are sort of inside the
back of the back-to-wall WC. It means moving the WC to get at the nuts.

JohnP Wrote in message:


Removing a cistern is a major problem it the nuts are sort of inside the
back of the back-to-wall WC. It means moving the WC to get at the nuts.



I've been very satisfied with the two Fluidmaster syphon and
torbeck combos I fitted. It may have changed, but you got the
choice of a plastic or brass bush on the fill valve,may as well
get the brass one.
--

%Profound_observation%


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

AlanC wrote:
One of our toilets is sometimes proving difficult to flush, sometimes
requiring several pulls on the handle to get the siphon working. Its a
close coupled system so is going to need to be completely dismantled in
order to replace the siphon unit.

I was just going to go with a Thomas Dudley Turbo 88 unit because of the
ability to service it without removing the down pipe.

While looking through the Screwfix offerings, I noticed that the push
button versions look a lot more compact (I assume the buttons are
designed to fit in standard lever holes). e.g.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/thomas-du...sh-valve/5120f

Are the push types better (not sure how they work) from a reliability
point of view, generally regarded as better or should I just stick with a
like for like (ish) replacement?

Thanks

Alan


Consider a flap valve.

I replaced a troublesome siphon based flush with one and it worked like a
dream.

I bought it in B&Q.

In message , R D S writes
On 08/09/2020 16:38, Ian Jackson wrote:
I've been through a very similar exercise. With a close-coupled
system replacement can be a pig of a job

Yes.
Had a leaky one lately. Looked like the doughnut had never been
properly in place and probably leaked since day one.
Pain of a job, especially in an enclosed space.


I've 2 close coupled ones now as I bought another a while ago (prior to
fixing the above), you don't buy toilets often do you, so in my case at
least was unprepared having not given it much thought but knowing what
I do now i'd not have another.

I installed the toilet in the early 90s, and (for various reasons) I've
had to remove the cistern a couple of times. I've never renewed the
doughnut - and this time it was like a well-chewed (large) Licorice
Allsort. Despite this, it was only just starting to leak.

After the siphon job was done, I had trouble with leaks from a new
doughnut. After several cistern 'offs and ons' (I was getting quite good
at it!), I traced the leak to the steel connecting plate not quite being
the correct fit for the toilet bowl (fixed after a bit of hacksawing).
--
Ian

On 08/09/2020 22:34, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , R D S writes
On 08/09/2020 16:38, Ian Jackson wrote:
Â*I've been through a very similar exercise. With a close-coupled
systemÂ* replacement can be a pig of a job

Yes.
Had a leaky one lately. Looked like the doughnut had never been
properly in place and probably leaked since day one.
Pain of a job, especially in an enclosed space.


I've 2 close coupled ones now as I bought another a while ago (prior
to fixing the above), you don't buy toilets often do you, so in my
case at least was unprepared having not given it much thought but
knowing what I do now i'd not have another.

I installed the toilet in the early 90s, and (for various reasons) I've
had to remove the cistern a couple of times. I've never renewed the
doughnut - and this time it was like a well-chewed (large) Licorice
Allsort. Despite this, it was only just starting to leak.

After the siphon job was done, I had trouble with leaks from a new
doughnut. After several cistern 'offs and ons' (I was getting quite good
at it!), I traced the leak to the steel connecting plate not quite being
the correct fit for the toilet bowl (fixed after a bit of hacksawing).
you need to get a stock of different doughnuts only one of them will
seal .....

In message , Jim GM4DHJ ...
writes


you need to get a stock of different doughnuts only one of them will
seal .....

Naw........
It's working fine now - and with luck I'll never have to take the
cistern off again (at least not because of a split in a silly bit of
flimsy plastic sheet).
--
Ian

On 08/09/2020 22:53, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jim GM4DHJ ...
writes


you need to get a stock of different doughnuts only one of them will
seal .....

Naw........
It's working fine now - and with luck I'll never have to take the
cistern off again (at least not because of a split in a silly bit of
flimsy plastic sheet).
years of cw practice assured then Ian ....tee hee

In message , Jim GM4DHJ ...
writes
On 08/09/2020 22:53, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jim GM4DHJ ...
writes

you need to get a stock of different doughnuts only one of them will
seal .....
Naw........
It's working fine now - and with luck I'll never have to take the
cistern off again (at least not because of a split in a silly bit of
flimsy plastic sheet).
years of cw practice assured then Ian ....tee hee

Indeed. No more time wasted swinging on the bog handle, trying to get it
to flush!
--
Ian

On 08/09/2020 23:22, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jim GM4DHJ ...
writes
On 08/09/2020 22:53, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jim GM4DHJ ...
writes

you need to get a stock of different doughnuts only one of them will
seal .....
Â*Naw........
It's working fine now - and with luck I'll never have to take the
cistern off again (at least not because of a split in a silly bit of
flimsy plastic sheet).
years of cw practice assured then Ian ....tee hee

Indeed. No more time wasted swinging on the bog handle, trying to get it
to flush!
nothing more annoying ...

On 08/09/2020 15:29:07, AlanC wrote:
One of our toilets is sometimes proving difficult to flush, sometimes
requiring several pulls on the handle to get the siphon working. Its
a close coupled system so is going to need to be completely
dismantled in order to replace the siphon unit.

I was just going to go with a Thomas Dudley Turbo 88 unit because of
the ability to service it without removing the down pipe.

While looking through the Screwfix offerings, I noticed that the push
button versions look a lot more compact (I assume the buttons are
designed to fit in standard lever holes). e.g.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/thomas-du...sh-valve/5120f

Are you sure they would fit? It looks larger than the usual hole for a
lever.

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 2:04:17 AM UTC+1, Fredxx wrote:

Are you sure they would fit? It looks larger than the usual hole for a
lever.

No, not sure at all.

It sounds like there isnt really much of an advantage over the lever version so I will stick with my original plan of the Turbo 88 (or 44 - I havent measured anything yet).

It does sound like this could turn into a real pig of a job. Might be worth getting one of these BSP plugs in case its a prolonged outage!

https://www.screwfix.com/p/male-flanged-plug-x/98635

Thanks for all the advice/pointers.

Alan

On 09/09/2020 02:04, Fredxx wrote:
On 08/09/2020 15:29:07, AlanC wrote:
One of our toilets is sometimes proving difficult to flush, sometimes
requiring several pulls on the handle to get the siphon working.Â* Its
a close coupled system so is going to need to be completely
dismantled in order to replace the siphon unit.

I was just going to go with a Thomas Dudley Turbo 88 unit because of
the ability to service it without removing the down pipe.

While looking through the Screwfix offerings, I noticed that the push
button versions look a lot more compact (I assume the buttons are
designed to fit in standard lever holes). e.g.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/thomas-du...sh-valve/5120f


Are you sure they would fit? It looks larger than the usual hole for a
lever.

They often come with a surface mount back box sort of thing, if Alan can
cope with it protruding.