Hi there, a question for the much-esteemed regs please.....

Do the new regs for window replacement mean that DIY is effectively
illegal now?
(eg http://www.bexley.gov.uk/service/pla...l/windows.html )

"Steve Walker" wrote
| Hi there, a question for the much-esteemed regs please.....
| Do the new regs for window replacement mean that DIY is
| effectively illegal now?
| (eg http://www.bexley.gov.uk/service/pla...l/windows.html )

DIY is not illegal, you just have to pay the council for a certificate.

Owain

"Owain" wrote in message
...
"Steve Walker" wrote
| Hi there, a question for the much-esteemed regs please.....
| Do the new regs for window replacement mean that DIY is
| effectively illegal now?
| (eg http://www.bexley.gov.uk/service/pla...l/windows.html )

DIY is not illegal, you just have to pay the council for a certificate.

Owain

This is the first time I've heard of this, is it nationwide?

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:

"Owain" wrote in message
...
"Steve Walker" wrote
| Hi there, a question for the much-esteemed regs please.....
| Do the new regs for window replacement mean that DIY is
| effectively illegal now?
| (eg http://www.bexley.gov.uk/service/pla...l/windows.html )

DIY is not illegal, you just have to pay the council for a certificate.

Owain

This is the first time I've heard of this, is it nationwide?

Does Scotland have the same regulations?

Sheila

"S Viemeister" wrote
| Mary Fisher wrote:
| "Owain" wrote
| "Steve Walker" wrote
| | Hi there, a question for the much-esteemed regs please.....
| | Do the new regs for window replacement mean that DIY is
| | effectively illegal now?
| | (eg
http://www.bexley.gov.uk/service/pla...l/windows.html )
| DIY is not illegal, you just have to pay the council for a
certificate.
| This is the first time I've heard of this, is it nationwide?

For England and Wales, yes.

| Does Scotland have the same regulations?

Not as far as I can see.

According to the Replacement Windows Advice Note (my emphases) for
Edinburgh,
http://download.edinburgh.gov.uk/bca...nt_Windows.pdf
"A building warrant is NOT needed if you are removing a window and
installing a new one in the same opening. However, if the window is not a
'like for like'replacement you MUST make sure that the new window complies
with the Building Standards (Scotland) Regulations. You also NEED a building
warrant if you have to do other work, such as removing a mullion (the
vertical divide between windows), or altering a neighbouring section of
wall.
There are many regulations relating to windows, and they can be
complicated. You should get reliable advice, or a written statement saying
that the new windows will comply with the regulations, from someone
experienced such as your architect, builder or window manufacturer. The
regulations deal with a variety of points including the following examples.
Fitness of materials and standard of workmanship - The windows must be
fitted properly using suitable materials and there should be no leaks or
draughts.
General safety - The window must be fixed securely to the building and must
not endanger passers-by when open.
Emergency escape - Buildings have to be constructed with escape routes in
case of a fire. In certain residential buildings with only one escape route,
there must be emergency windows that give you an alternative escape route.
The regulations explain which buildings, where these windows are required
and window sizes.
Daylight - Certain sizes (measured in 'glazed area') are needed for
different rooms. As lighting accounts for up to 15% of electricity used in
the home, make the most of daylight.
Ventilation - Windows provide essential ventilation, particularly in
kitchens, bathrooms and shower-rooms. The regulations identify the type
(permanent or adjustable) and amount needed in different places. Heating
installations A room or space containing a fixed heating installation (eg
solid fuel, oil-fired or gas-fired) must have permanent ventilation, often
from a vent in a window. This must be taken into account when replacing
windows. The regulations describe the amount of ventilation needed.
Cleaning - To avoid accidents, it is important that any windows more than 4
metres (13 feet) high can be cleaned safely from inside or from a window
access system. Windows above stairs to flats or in a common entrance hall
can be cleaned from a ladder, as long as the window is not more than 9
metres (29 feet 6 inches) above the ground or a suitable load-bearing
surface.
You must install energy efficient double or triple glazing for all
replacement windows, this is now a compulsory requirement under building
regulations .

The PDF also notes:

You may need Feu Superior's Consent before making any alterations, the
grounds of the property. Consent is needed from the Council for alterations
to property previously owned by the Council, or property that has been built
on ground that was previously owned by the Council.

There is also a note that Planning or Conservation Area consents are a
different matter.

And summarised at
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/CEC/Prop.../BWpossnotrequ
ired.html
Replacement Windows - You need a Building Warrant if it is necessary to do
other works, for example removing a mullion or altering an adjacent section
of wall. You may need to have your replacement windows checked when you want
to sell your house. There is a charge for this service.

Also note in contrast to England's Part L:

All new heat producing appliances do NOT need a Building Warrant and
Completion Certificate but MUST comply with the relevant Building
Regulations if it is proposed to install a different type of appliance.
A chimney, flue pipe and hearth associated with an appliance does need a
Building Warrant.

Owain

Owain wrote:

"S Viemeister" wrote

| Does Scotland have the same regulations?

Not as far as I can see.

According to the Replacement Windows Advice Note (my emphases) for
Edinburgh,
http://download.edinburgh.gov.uk/bca...nt_Windows.pdf

(snipped useful information)

Thanks, Owain. Filed for future use.

I would imagine that Highland would have similar regulations to Edinburgh?

Sheila

Owain wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote
| Hi there, a question for the much-esteemed regs please.....
| Do the new regs for window replacement mean that DIY is
| effectively illegal now?
| (eg http://www.bexley.gov.uk/service/pla...l/windows.html )

DIY is not illegal, you just have to pay the council for a certificate.


This worries me...

I have an existing window, single glazed sash, that's pretty old & the
sashes are in pretty bad nick, but the frame oitself is fine. The fram
does have a problem in that it's been pushed back into the room by about
30mm and needs reseating...

If I do the work myself, remove the window frame, clean up the
brickwork, put it all back with new double glazed sashes (From copycat),
do I need to get it certified? (The house itself is 1890's and the sash
certainly looks old enough to be original).

TIA

Hamish.

Owain

Hamie wrote:

This worries me...

I have an existing window, single glazed sash, that's pretty old & the
sashes are in pretty bad nick, but the frame oitself is fine. The fram
does have a problem in that it's been pushed back into the room by about
30mm and needs reseating...

If I do the work myself, remove the window frame, clean up the
brickwork, put it all back with new double glazed sashes (From copycat),
do I need to get it certified? (The house itself is 1890's and the sash
certainly looks old enough to be original).

Nope that would be outside the regs since it would count as a repair
rather than a replacement.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Hamie wrote:

This worries me...

I have an existing window, single glazed sash, that's pretty old & the
sashes are in pretty bad nick, but the frame oitself is fine. The fram
does have a problem in that it's been pushed back into the room by
about 30mm and needs reseating...

If I do the work myself, remove the window frame, clean up the
brickwork, put it all back with new double glazed sashes (From
copycat), do I need to get it certified? (The house itself is 1890's
and the sash certainly looks old enough to be original).


Nope that would be outside the regs since it would count as a repair
rather than a replacement.


Ah good... In that case I'll proceed...

I wonder how much of the original you need before a repair turns into a
replacement


[No, it's a repair, because the sash cord is original, I just replaced
the rest ]

Hamie wrote:

[No, it's a repair, because the sash cord is original, I just replaced
the rest ]

How about just keeping the view? ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Owain wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote
| Hi there, a question for the much-esteemed regs please.....
| Do the new regs for window replacement mean that DIY is
| effectively illegal now?
| (eg http://www.bexley.gov.uk/service/pla...l/windows.html )

DIY is not illegal, you just have to pay the council for a certificate.


This worries me...

I have an existing window, single glazed sash, that's pretty old & the
sashes are in pretty bad nick, but the frame oitself is fine. The fram
does have a problem in that it's been pushed back into the room by about
30mm and needs reseating...

If I do the work myself, remove the window frame, clean up the
brickwork, put it all back with new double glazed sashes (From copycat),
do I need to get it certified? (The house itself is 1890's and the sash
certainly looks old enough to be original).

TIA

Hamish.

Owain

Do the new regs for window replacement mean that DIY is effectively
illegal now?

Local Council Building Control charge for a cert of compliance. They come
out to inspect the windows before and after replacement and then issue a
cert. (AFAIK)

I did ask them (very early on) why they needed a pre visit and they
mentioned maintaining window openings for fire regs or some such reason. Not
part of the remitt I would have thought. Can anyone confirm this. Also they
mentioned inspection fee of £60.

This covers door replacement as well if the glass is 50% or over total area.
The good news is that you can replace garage and shed windows with whatever
you like

Also said it was not an inspection of the quality of the work. Only that the
windows were "Part L". A 2" gap round the frames would not stop the issue of
a cert.!

God help us. What a total waste of time and money. What next.

Firms having FENSA registered, means that they can replace windows and they
issue their own certification as to compliance.

Scotland will have the same regs but probably not named "part L"





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sid wrote:

God help us. What a total waste of time and money. What next.

Firms having FENSA registered, means that they can replace windows and
they issue their own certification as to compliance.

Yes, this new procedure rather struck me to be a coup by a trade
association with an obvious vested interest. What next? I predict
that the British Association of Gardeners will lobby for a similar
approval process re lawn-mowing. Householders wishing to do this
themselves (and thus deprive decent BAG members of rightful employment)
will be obliged to fill out forms, pay fees and submit to
inspections....

Steve Walker wrote:

Yes, this new procedure rather struck me to be a coup by a trade
association with an obvious vested interest. What next?

Part P, that's what's next. Grrr.

--
Andy

Andy Wade wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:

Yes, this new procedure rather struck me to be a coup by a trade
association with an obvious vested interest. What next?

Part P, that's what's next. Grrr.

So the sparkies have got the fix in too, eh?
Another 20 years and DIY will be practically illegal.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...


So the sparkies have got the fix in too, eh?
Another 20 years and DIY will be practically illegal.


as if we wanted the extra hassle.

loz

In message , Steve Walker
writes
Andy Wade wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:

Yes, this new procedure rather struck me to be a coup by a trade
association with an obvious vested interest. What next?

Part P, that's what's next. Grrr.

So the sparkies have got the fix in too, eh?
Another 20 years and DIY will be practically illegal.

Which will make for a thriving black market

--
geoff

On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 20:49:57 +0100, "Steve Walker"
wrote:

Andy Wade wrote:
Steve Walker wrote:

Yes, this new procedure rather struck me to be a coup by a trade
association with an obvious vested interest. What next?

Part P, that's what's next. Grrr.

So the sparkies have got the fix in too, eh?
Another 20 years and DIY will be practically illegal.



Absolutely.

Have a look at the sanctimonious claptrap from the Institute of
Plumbing and Heating Engineers (Institute of Plumbers as was).

http://www.iphe.org.uk/consumer/diydangers.html


According to them:

"Putting up a couple of shelves is one thing, but trying a bit of DIY
on your plumbing system can not only be dangerous and expensive, but
could also drop you in hot water with the law! "


This is a real joke when one reads this in their How to Join section:
"
Q: I'm a working plumber - will my work be inspected?


A: If you don’t have formal qualifications, we can accept practical
experience instead, together with suitable references from others in
the profession. In some cases we may ask one of our Professional
Standards Inspectors to assess your work.
"

The reality is that all of these self certification schemes are a
means for the government to keep tabs on tradespeople for
administrative (i.e. tax) purposes.

There is absolutely no way that the resources are in place at the
nominated enforcing bodies (i.e. local authority building control) to
police any of this stuff.

It's regulation for its own sake, and poorly done.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

I did a Google on Window replacement legislations and came up with:

That Health & Safety Executive legislation now requires that
ANYONE who can potentially fall more than 2metres whilst working
should be provided with and use a fall arrest protection system!

See: http://www.thewindowman.co.uk/

Mary

That Health & Safety Executive legislation now requires that
ANYONE who can potentially fall more than 2metres whilst working
should be provided with and use a fall arrest protection system!

So this is why "they" can't fix the leaks on the flat roof of my single story
office, having run out of money in the scaffolding budget.....(world's gone
mad)

That Health & Safety Executive legislation now requires that
ANYONE who can potentially fall more than 2metres whilst working
should be provided with and use a fall arrest protection system!

I think it depends on how long they`re expecting to work at height. ISTR
anything less than 15 minutes doesn`t fall under this legislation (no pun
intended)

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...
That Health & Safety Executive legislation now requires that
ANYONE who can potentially fall more than 2metres whilst working
should be provided with and use a fall arrest protection system!

I think it depends on how long they`re expecting to work at height. ISTR
anything less than 15 minutes doesn`t fall under this legislation (no pun
intended)

Why is 15 minutes different from 16 minutes?

Or 14 minutes?

Mary

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

In message , Mary
Fisher writes

I did a Google on Window replacement legislations and came up with:

That Health & Safety Executive legislation now requires that
ANYONE who can potentially fall more than 2metres whilst working
should be provided with and use a fall arrest protection system!

See: http://www.thewindowman.co.uk/

So I broke the law today then

--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Mary
Fisher writes

I did a Google on Window replacement legislations and came up with:

That Health & Safety Executive legislation now requires that
ANYONE who can potentially fall more than 2metres whilst working
should be provided with and use a fall arrest protection system!

See: http://www.thewindowman.co.uk/

So I broke the law today then

We do it every day. I suppose Spouse had a fall arrest protection system
when picking apples yesterday - but would H&SE accept that tree branches
were such a system? Or the banister on our staircase ... ? I can see a
window cleaner up a ladder on a neighbour's house as I type ...

Mary

--
geoff

"
That Health & Safety Executive legislation now requires that
ANYONE who can potentially fall more than 2metres whilst working
should be provided with and use a fall arrest protection system!

See: http://www.thewindowman.co.uk/

Mary

That applies to Heatlth and Safety at work. Not to DIY.






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"sid" wrote in message ...

"
That Health & Safety Executive legislation now requires that
ANYONE who can potentially fall more than 2metres whilst working
should be provided with and use a fall arrest protection system!

See: http://www.thewindowman.co.uk/

Mary

That applies to Heatlth and Safety at work. Not to DIY.

Right, thanks.

Hm - for how long though ...

Mary






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That Health & Safety Executive legislation now requires that
ANYONE who can potentially fall more than 2metres whilst working
should be provided with and use a fall arrest protection system!

See: http://www.thewindowman.co.uk/

Mary

That applies to Health and Safety at work. Not to DIY.

Right, thanks.

Hm - for how long though ...

Mary



It seems that the trade bodies are having undue influence. Next will be
plumbing, then gardening (these lawn mower blades are really sharp - leave
it to a professional)

Car DIY - must be inspected by a qualified mechanic after any work relating
to safety issues (tyre pressure, brake work, starting the engine etc.)





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"sid" wrote in message ...
That Health & Safety Executive legislation now requires that
ANYONE who can potentially fall more than 2metres whilst working
should be provided with and use a fall arrest protection system!

See: http://www.thewindowman.co.uk/

Mary

That applies to Health and Safety at work. Not to DIY.

Right, thanks.

Hm - for how long though ...

Mary



It seems that the trade bodies are having undue influence. Next will be
plumbing, then gardening (these lawn mower blades are really sharp - leave
it to a professional)

Car DIY - must be inspected by a qualified mechanic after any work
relating
to safety issues (tyre pressure, brake work, starting the engine etc.)

LOL!

Hmm.

Why am I laughing ... :-(

Mary





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