I've just ordered a saw horse in the form of four metal "tuning forks" which
are inserted a log-length apart into a piece of 4x4 timber, as a base to
which the "forks" and some legs are attached. The logs are strapped into the
tuning forks to be cut with a chainsaw.

The supplier provides two spade drill bits for drilling out the timber for
making the base. Would you believe both drills have manufacturing faults!

- One has a bent shaft: the hexagonal end which fits into the chuck is at an
angle to the shaft ;-)

- The other has never been sharpened, so the cutting surfaces are blunt ;-)

https://i.postimg.cc/4yrPPkbN/20200814-121437.jpg (I've laid the shaft along
a straight line drawn on some paper)

https://i.postimg.cc/SRXVcN9v/20200814-121608.jpg (it's the 25 mm one)

I've complained to the supplier and asked for replacements (no point in
paying for new ones if they are included in the purchase price of the saw
horse), but I thought I'd share the photos - what are the chances that
*both* drill bits are faulty!

On 14/08/2020 13:03, NY wrote:

- The other has never been sharpened, so the cutting surfaces are blunt ;-)

https://i.postimg.cc/4yrPPkbN/20200814-121437.jpg (I've laid the shaft
along a straight line drawn on some paper)

https://i.postimg.cc/SRXVcN9v/20200814-121608.jpg (it's the 25 mm one)

I've complained to the supplier and asked for replacements (no point in
paying for new ones if they are included in the purchase price of the
saw horse), but I thought I'd share the photos - what are the chances
that *both* drill bits are faulty!

I see you tried the unsharpened one!

Bill

"williamwright" wrote in message
...
On 14/08/2020 13:03, NY wrote:

- The other has never been sharpened, so the cutting surfaces are blunt
;-)

https://i.postimg.cc/4yrPPkbN/20200814-121437.jpg (I've laid the shaft
along a straight line drawn on some paper)

https://i.postimg.cc/SRXVcN9v/20200814-121608.jpg (it's the 25 mm one)

I've complained to the supplier and asked for replacements (no point in
paying for new ones if they are included in the purchase price of the saw
horse), but I thought I'd share the photos - what are the chances that
*both* drill bits are faulty!

I see you tried the unsharpened one!

Yes. I was interested to see just how badly it cut. It quickly scorched the
wood. I was experimenting in a bit of wood similar to what I'll use for the
base. (*)

The "whirling drill bit" (the 30 mm one) was most disconcerting. My first
thought when I started the electric drill (slowly, before taking it up to
normal speed) was that I'd not loaded it into the chuck properly. Then I
took it out and looked at it, and thought "that bugger is as bent as a
banana".



(*) It so happens that I have another 25 mm drill - a very large (and very
long) twist drill, rather than a spade one. But it binds in the wood almost
immediately. I'd bought it originally to drill some holes in tree stumps, so
my wife could plant some trailing plants in the holes, and found it got
stuck very quickly which I attributed to the tree stump wood being damp. But
it does it on seasoned, cleanly-cut gate post wood as well. Are those very
large twist drills designed to be used in an electric drill, or or you
supposed to use them in a brace-and-bit drill which turns very slowly?

In message , williamwright
writes
On 14/08/2020 13:03, NY wrote:

- The other has never been sharpened, so the cutting surfaces are blunt ;-)
https://i.postimg.cc/4yrPPkbN/20200814-121437.jpg (I've laid the
shaft along a straight line drawn on some paper)
https://i.postimg.cc/SRXVcN9v/20200814-121608.jpg (it's the 25 mm
one)
I've complained to the supplier and asked for replacements (no point
in paying for new ones if they are included in the purchase price of
the saw horse), but I thought I'd share the photos - what are the
chances that *both* drill bits are faulty!

I see you tried the unsharpened one!

They look just like the ones someone else returned!

--
Tim Lamb

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , williamwright
writes
On 14/08/2020 13:03, NY wrote:

- The other has never been sharpened, so the cutting surfaces are blunt
;-)
https://i.postimg.cc/4yrPPkbN/20200814-121437.jpg (I've laid the shaft
along a straight line drawn on some paper)
https://i.postimg.cc/SRXVcN9v/20200814-121608.jpg (it's the 25 mm one)
I've complained to the supplier and asked for replacements (no point in
paying for new ones if they are included in the purchase price of the
saw horse), but I thought I'd share the photos - what are the chances
that *both* drill bits are faulty!

I see you tried the unsharpened one!

They look just like the ones someone else returned!

The thought had occurred to me!

The company that supplied them has apologised and is sending replacements.

On 14/08/2020 16:29, NY wrote:
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message , williamwright
writes
On 14/08/2020 13:03, NY wrote:

- The other has never been sharpened, so the cutting surfaces are
blunt ;-)
Â*https://i.postimg.cc/4yrPPkbN/20200814-121437.jpg (I've laid the
shaft along a straight line drawn on some paper)
Â*https://i.postimg.cc/SRXVcN9v/20200814-121608.jpg (it's the 25 mm one)
Â*I've complained to the supplier and asked for replacements (no
point in paying for new ones if they are included in the purchase
price of the saw horse), but I thought I'd share the photos - what
are the chances that *both* drill bits are faulty!

I see you tried the unsharpened one!

They look just like the ones someone else returned!

The thought had occurred to me!

The company that supplied them has apologised and is sending replacements.

Those flat blade things are pretty useless anyway. Far better to get
some decent auger bits.
--
Cheers,
Roger

On 14/08/2020 16:54, Roger Mills wrote:

Those flat blade things are pretty useless anyway. Far better to get
some decent auger bits.
Agreed. And they're dangerous if they hit a nail.

Bill

On 14/08/2020 13:29, NY wrote:
(*) It so happens that I have another 25 mm drill - a very large (and
very long) twist drill, rather than a spade one. But it binds in the
wood almost immediately. I'd bought it originally to drill some holes in
tree stumps, so my wife could plant some trailing plants in the holes,
and found it got stuck very quickly which I attributed to the tree stump
wood being damp. But it does it on seasoned, cleanly-cut gate post wood
as well. Are those very large twist drills designed to be used in an
electric drill, or or you supposed to use them in a brace-and-bit drill
which turns very slowly?


They are a bit of a bugger for that. The thread pulls them into the work
too quickly. They're OK in a pedestal drill because you can control the
feed rate. On an electric drill you have to go very slowly and keep
pulling back. I have wondered about grinding the thread off part of the
pointy bit.

Bill

I'm still persevering with a bulk box of drill bits in assorted sizes that I bought from B&Q, or Wickes, about 15 years ago, where every one of the 200 or so is bent! I have smaller sets of quality bits for work where accuracy is needed, but I have never got round to chucking the duffers away (God knows why).

Ant.

Lack of QA, I'd say. I remember buying several things, in one case jewellers
screwdrivers, they were wonderful. Same make a year later, the handle
plaiting came off and went into my hand and the screwdriver blades bent.
Counterfeit? Who knows. Back in the days of cassettes a company called Dindy
used to make them in this country, and they were pretty good for the price.
A couple of years down the line, I bought some more. All made in Mexico, all
either jammed or had tape that was a shadow of the old ones. The problem is
that many companies sub stuff out. I bought a pack of Draper hacksaw blades,
the blue ones? Previously they were from Germany, the new ones made in
Poland. All of them were either snapping or stripping teeth just while
sawing mild steel rod!

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"NY" wrote in message ...
I've just ordered a saw horse in the form of four metal "tuning forks"
which are inserted a log-length apart into a piece of 4x4 timber, as a
base to which the "forks" and some legs are attached. The logs are
strapped into the tuning forks to be cut with a chainsaw.

The supplier provides two spade drill bits for drilling out the timber for
making the base. Would you believe both drills have manufacturing faults!

- One has a bent shaft: the hexagonal end which fits into the chuck is at
an angle to the shaft ;-)

- The other has never been sharpened, so the cutting surfaces are blunt
;-)

https://i.postimg.cc/4yrPPkbN/20200814-121437.jpg (I've laid the shaft
along a straight line drawn on some paper)

https://i.postimg.cc/SRXVcN9v/20200814-121608.jpg (it's the 25 mm one)

I've complained to the supplier and asked for replacements (no point in
paying for new ones if they are included in the purchase price of the saw
horse), but I thought I'd share the photos - what are the chances that
*both* drill bits are faulty!

"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" wrote:
Lack of QA, I'd say. I remember buying several things, in one case jewellers
screwdrivers, they were wonderful. Same make a year later, the handle
plaiting came off and went into my hand and the screwdriver blades bent.
Counterfeit? Who knows. Back in the days of cassettes a company called Dindy
used to make them in this country, and they were pretty good for the price.
A couple of years down the line, I bought some more. All made in Mexico, all
either jammed or had tape that was a shadow of the old ones. The problem is
that many companies sub stuff out. I bought a pack of Draper hacksaw blades,
the blue ones? Previously they were from Germany, the new ones made in
Poland. All of them were either snapping or stripping teeth just while
sawing mild steel rod!

It's the nonsense (nowadays anyway) of "branding". A brand no longer
gives any guarantee of source, quality or anything.

--
Chris Green
·

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:29:20 +0100, NY wrote:

(*) It so happens that I have another 25 mm drill - a very large (and
very long) twist drill, rather than a spade one.

Do you really mean twist drill or an auger bit?

Twist drills have cutting geometry for metals rather than wood,
though at the small sizes it's not that critical. Not surprised that
a 25 mm twist drill binds in wood, especially without a pilot hole.

I wouldn't even try to use an auger bit in a power tool. The screw
feed is quite quick and they need a fair bit of torque at low speed.

The cutting action of a twist drill or flat wood bit is more of a
scrape than a cut. An auger bit cuts more like a chisel or plane.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:29:20 +0100, NY wrote:

(*) It so happens that I have another 25 mm drill - a very large (and
very long) twist drill, rather than a spade one.

Do you really mean twist drill or an auger bit?

Twist drills have cutting geometry for metals rather than wood,
though at the small sizes it's not that critical. Not surprised that
a 25 mm twist drill binds in wood, especially without a pilot hole.

I've got smaller sized twist drills designed for wood. they even have a
centre point for accurate location. Damned clever these Japs!

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:29:20 +0100, NY wrote:

(*) It so happens that I have another 25 mm drill - a very large (and
very long) twist drill, rather than a spade one.

Do you really mean twist drill or an auger bit?

Twist drills have cutting geometry for metals rather than wood,
though at the small sizes it's not that critical. Not surprised that
a 25 mm twist drill binds in wood, especially without a pilot hole.

I wouldn't even try to use an auger bit in a power tool. The screw
feed is quite quick and they need a fair bit of torque at low speed.

The cutting action of a twist drill or flat wood bit is more of a
scrape than a cut. An auger bit cuts more like a chisel or plane.

It may well be an auger - I was using "twist" to convey the meaning of a
spiral thread, in contrast to a flat perpendicular blade of the drill bits
that I was initially talking about, not realising that there are two
categories of twist-action drill: metal (twist) and wood (auger).

The 25 mm auger drill has a conical thread on the tip to create a pilot
hole. The whole drill is about 30 cm long and is bloody heavy - it's a lot
better for drilling vertical holes (eg in the top of tree stumps) than
horizontal ones where the weight of the drill but would tend to twist an
electric drill that is held with its normal handle and hand-hold.

If I need to use it in future, I'll probably buy a brace-and-bit hand drill
for greater control at low speed. My electric drill had variable speed and
is capable of running at low speed, but the torque at low speed is low and
the movement is a bit jerky. I bought the drill bit not realising that it
wouldn't cut in the same way as a small drill of 5-10 mm diameter and would
need to run very slowly because it draws itself into the wood very quickly.

On 15/08/2020 12:15, NY wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:29:20 +0100, NY wrote:

(*) It so happens that I have another 25 mm drill - a very large (and
very long) twist drill, rather than a spade one.

Do you really mean twist drill or an auger bit?

Twist drills have cutting geometry for metals rather than wood,
though at the small sizes it's not that critical. Not surprised that
a 25 mm twist drill binds in wood, especially without a pilot hole.

I wouldn't even try to use an auger bit in a power tool. The screw
feed is quite quick and they need a fair bit of torque at low speed.

The cutting action of a twist drill or flat wood bit is more of a
scrape than a cut. An auger bit cuts more like a chisel or plane.

It may well be an auger - I was using "twist" to convey the meaning of a
spiral thread, in contrast to a flat perpendicular blade of the drill
bits that I was initially talking about, not realising that there are
two categories of twist-action drill: metal (twist) and wood (auger).

There are in fact a lot more

Off the top of my head
1. standard cheap twist drill as in metal type
2. flutes masonry drill with hardened 'smasher' carbide head.
3. wood drill auger type with a spiral centre and then a sort of
'planer' edge
3. flat wood drill with a centre spike and angled 'scraper' stile blades.
4. hole saws
5. diamond core drills with no centre at all.

Then there are combo drills with counterbore and countersink...



The 25 mm auger drill has a conical thread on the tip to create a pilot
hole. The whole drill is about 30 cm long and is bloody heavy - it's a
lot better for drilling vertical holes (eg in the top of tree stumps)
than horizontal ones where the weight of the drill but would tend to
twist an electric drill that is held with its normal handle and hand-hold.

If I need to use it in future, I'll probably buy a brace-and-bit hand
drill for greater control at low speed. My electric drill had variable
speed and is capable of running at low speed, but the torque at low
speed is low and the movement is a bit jerky. I bought the drill bit not
realising that it wouldn't cut in the same way as a small drill of 5-10
mm diameter and would need to run very slowly because it draws itself
into the wood very quickly.

yes. High torque low speed as for hand brace work


--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

On Saturday, 15 August 2020 at 10:46:09 UTC+1, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 13:29:20 +0100, NY wrote:

(*) It so happens that I have another 25 mm drill - a very large (and
very long) twist drill, rather than a spade one.
Do you really mean twist drill or an auger bit?

Twist drills have cutting geometry for metals rather than wood,
though at the small sizes it's not that critical. Not surprised that
a 25 mm twist drill binds in wood, especially without a pilot hole.

you can make them work well in wood by grinding to much steeper geometry & grinding out most of the dull centre.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...e_Twist_Drills

I wouldn't even try to use an auger bit in a power tool. The screw
feed is quite quick and they need a fair bit of torque at low speed.

I've done a fair bit of that, worked great. Can certainly go wrong though.


NT

NY wrote:

The 25 mm auger drill has a conical thread on the tip to create a pilot
hole.

Problem with using those in a modern drill is that once the snail bites,
it's away at a rate of knots ... I had some oak flooring clamped in the
workmate to drill a hole for a radiator pipe, it bit, started cutting,
split the wood and then went for my thumb ...

On Saturday, 15 August 2020 at 20:12:29 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
NY wrote:

The 25 mm auger drill has a conical thread on the tip to create a pilot
hole.
Problem with using those in a modern drill is that once the snail bites,
it's away at a rate of knots ... I had some oak flooring clamped in the
workmate to drill a hole for a radiator pipe, it bit, started cutting,
split the wood and then went for my thumb ...

hence you blunt the tip to slow it down. And never run them fast.


NT

Nick Cat wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Problem with using those in a modern drill is that once the snail bites,
it's away at a rate of knots

hence you blunt the tip to slow it down. And never run them fast.

Then they don't bite ...

On Sunday, 16 August 2020 08:24:15 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Nick Cat wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:

Problem with using those in a modern drill is that once the snail bites,
it's away at a rate of knots

hence you blunt the tip to slow it down. And never run them fast.

Then they don't bite ...

they do only when pushed a bit, so you can control them.

The advantage of their bite-fast approach is it's energy efficient. It also makes them work best at low speed with highish torque - ideal characterisatics for hand drilling. These days more or less everyone uses them in power drills, so gotta wonder why the mfrs don't make the self driving tips less aggressive.


NT

wrote:

On Sunday, 16 August 2020 08:24:15 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:

Nick Cat wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Problem with using those in a modern drill is that once the snail bites,
it's away at a rate of knots

hence you blunt the tip to slow it down. And never run them fast.

Then they don't bite ...

they do only when pushed a bit, so you can control them.

The advantage of their bite-fast approach is it's energy efficient.
It also makes them work best at low speed with highish torque -
ideal characterisatics for hand drilling. These days more or less
everyone uses them in power drills

That's why I said "in a modern drill" they were a lot more controllable
in a brace drill.

so gotta wonder why the mfrs don't make the self driving tips less aggressive.

On 16/08/2020 15:18, wrote:
The advantage of their bite-fast approach is it's energy efficient. It also makes them work best at low speed with highish torque - ideal characterisatics for hand drilling. These days more or less everyone uses them in power drills, so gotta wonder why the mfrs don't make the self driving tips less aggressive.

On the very rare occasions I want to make a large hole in a bit of wood
I still use the brace and bits I inherited from my grandfather.

I don't expect to be able to pass them on any more as both my sons are
single, and they'll get my dad's stuff when my mum dies.

Andy