Hi folks,

I recently moved into a flat that, as well as having 'standard' modern
plug sockets, also has some older ones, with holes for three round pins.
I have no idea whether these are live, and guess that I could use one of
those mains tester plugs in order to check whether they're wired up
correctly, but:

a) Are they potentially usable?

b) Are there adapter plugs available to plug in equipment with new-style
plugs ... or replacement plugs to connect to the equipment, perhaps?

Any advice would be appreciated -- my knowledge of such things is
sketchy to say the least!

Thanks,
Stuart.

In article ,
Stuart Bell wrote:
I recently moved into a flat that, as well as having 'standard' modern
plug sockets, also has some older ones, with holes for three round pins.
I have no idea whether these are live, and guess that I could use one of
those mains tester plugs in order to check whether they're wired up
correctly, but:

a) Are they potentially usable?

If the wiring is all recent, it's common to use this sort of socket for
table lamps etc switched from a wall switch off the normal lighting
circuit.

b) Are there adapter plugs available to plug in equipment with new-style
plugs ... or replacement plugs to connect to the equipment, perhaps?

You can buy plugs from a wholesaler - even some of the larger sheds. But
these sockets - and the wiring - are of a lower rating than the normal 13
amp type - either 2 or 5 amp.

Any advice would be appreciated -- my knowledge of such things is
sketchy to say the least!

If they are the remains of an old installation which used these for
'power', it should be checked properly - it will be very old, probably 40
years plus.

--
*Eat well, stay fit, die anyway

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 11:23:08 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


You can buy plugs from a wholesaler - even some of the larger sheds. But
these sockets - and the wiring - are of a lower rating than the normal 13
amp type - either 2 or 5 amp.


There was a 15A version too. IIRC it was common practise to run the 5A and
15A on radial circuits and the 2A as arealy mentioned came off the
lighting circuits.

2A have been put in as recently as the mid 60's (York University, some of
the college residences) and were off the lighting circuit - as proven when
too many kettles and hairdryers were plugged into them!

Timbo

"Tim" wrote in message .. .
On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 11:23:08 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You can buy plugs from a wholesaler - even some of the larger sheds. But
these sockets - and the wiring - are of a lower rating than the normal 13
amp type - either 2 or 5 amp.

There was a 15A version too. IIRC it was common practise to run the 5A and
15A on radial circuits and the 2A as arealy mentioned came off the
lighting circuits.

And even earlier than 3 pin round pin were the 2 pin 5A round pin
plugs. Have an old wooden 2 way adaptor where the metal sleeves come
so close to the surface you touch them without sticking a finger in
anywhere.

NT

In article , N.
Thornton wrote:

And even earlier than 3 pin round pin were the 2 pin 5A round pin
plugs.

I remember some seriously lethal versions of those as a child in the
1950's. The plugs had round covers with a central flex outlet and a
moulded thread fixing them to the base. You could easily unscrew the
tops from the plugs without unplugging them :-(

I've also come across 2 peculiar type of plugs in the distant past,
probably also 1950's or very early 1960's era:

* One type were 13A with round pins. They were about the same size
as 5A ones but the earth pin had a groove running along it's
length (presumably so the socket could be keyed to prevent a 5A
plug being used) and the cartridge fuse was threaded at one end
and screwed into the plug to form the live pin. I think they
were a proprietary Reyrole design.

* There were some really weird plugs with a central round earth
pin and flat power pins to either side of it. They came in 2 (or
more ?) different sizes and ratings. The larger ones had a
socket for a lower rating built into the cover so you could
piggy back a smaller plug off them. ISTR the plugs had cartridge
fuses and were designed in such a way that the lower rated ones
could also be inserted into higher rated sockets.


--
Mike Clarke

In article ,
Mike Clarke wrote:
One type were 13A with round pins. They were about the same size
as 5A ones but the earth pin had a groove running along it's
length (presumably so the socket could be keyed to prevent a 5A
plug being used) and the cartridge fuse was threaded at one end
and screwed into the plug to form the live pin. I think they
were a proprietary Reyrole design.

D&S. Lethal things. Sometimes when you unplugged them, the fuse would be
left sticking out of the socket - it had unscrewed itself. The natural
reaction was to pull it out. Live...

They also had a near useless cord grip.

Often found on council estates.

--
*There's two theories to arguing with a woman. Neither one works *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Mike Clarke wrote in message ...
In article , N.
Thornton wrote:

I remember some seriously lethal versions of those as a child in the
1950's. The plugs had round covers with a central flex outlet and a
moulded thread fixing them to the base. You could easily unscrew the
tops from the plugs without unplugging them :-(

ah, Clix plugs. The wires were pushed under the folded pins, and
screwing the top on pressed the pins onto the wires. no cordgrip. I
think theyre famous for worrying people.


I've also come across 2 peculiar type of plugs in the distant past,
probably also 1950's or very early 1960's era:

* One type were 13A with round pins. They were about the same size
as 5A ones but the earth pin had a groove running along it's
length (presumably so the socket could be keyed to prevent a 5A
plug being used) and the cartridge fuse was threaded at one end
and screwed into the plug to form the live pin. I think they
were a proprietary Reyrole design.

hospital plug?

* There were some really weird plugs with a central round earth
pin and flat power pins to either side of it. They came in 2 (or
more ?) different sizes and ratings. The larger ones had a
socket for a lower rating built into the cover so you could
piggy back a smaller plug off them. ISTR the plugs had cartridge
fuses and were designed in such a way that the lower rated ones
could also be inserted into higher rated sockets.

not heard of those before.

NT

Mike Clarke wrote:

* There were some really weird plugs with a central round earth
pin and flat power pins to either side of it. They came in 2 (or
more ?) different sizes and ratings. The larger ones had a
socket for a lower rating built into the cover so you could
piggy back a smaller plug off them. ISTR the plugs had cartridge
fuses and were designed in such a way that the lower rated ones
could also be inserted into higher rated sockets.

Weird nothing ;-) A fine design, the Wylex stackable. As you say, the
plugs did indeed have their own cartridge fuses, with physically smaller
fuses (3A? 5A?) for the physically-smaller plugs, so that the (ab)user
couldn't fit a 13A fuse into the smaller plug.

Mind you, I don't think that Wylex ever produced a version of either the
wall socket or the larger plug-with-integral-socket-on-the-back which
had shutters on the L and N holes; but vague memory alleges that they
did produce, in the late 60s/early 70s, plugs with part-sleeved pins.

Stefek

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 11:23:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Stuart Bell wrote:
I recently moved into a flat that, as well as having 'standard' modern
plug sockets, also has some older ones, with holes for three round pins.
I have no idea whether these are live, and guess that I could use one of
those mains tester plugs in order to check whether they're wired up
correctly, but:

a) Are they potentially usable?

If the wiring is all recent, it's common to use this sort of socket for
table lamps etc switched from a wall switch off the normal lighting
circuit.

b) Are there adapter plugs available to plug in equipment with new-style
plugs ... or replacement plugs to connect to the equipment, perhaps?

You can buy plugs from a wholesaler - even some of the larger sheds. But
these sockets - and the wiring - are of a lower rating than the normal 13
amp type - either 2 or 5 amp.

There was/is a 15amp version available as well.

sPoNix

In article , sPoNiX
writes
On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 11:23:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Stuart Bell wrote:
I recently moved into a flat that, as well as having 'standard' modern
plug sockets, also has some older ones, with holes for three round pins.
I have no idea whether these are live, and guess that I could use one of
those mains tester plugs in order to check whether they're wired up
correctly, but:

a) Are they potentially usable?

If the wiring is all recent, it's common to use this sort of socket for
table lamps etc switched from a wall switch off the normal lighting
circuit.

b) Are there adapter plugs available to plug in equipment with new-style
plugs ... or replacement plugs to connect to the equipment, perhaps?

You can buy plugs from a wholesaler - even some of the larger sheds. But
these sockets - and the wiring - are of a lower rating than the normal 13
amp type - either 2 or 5 amp.

There was/is a 15amp version available as well.

15 amp is widely used in stage/theatre lighting systems, so is still
available and has been updated to have sleeved pins on the plugs,
shuttered sockets etc.
--
Tim Mitchell

Tim Mitchell wrote:

15 amp is widely used in stage/theatre lighting systems, so is still
available and has been updated to have sleeved pins on the plugs,
shuttered sockets etc.

Curiously, its still the standard in S Africa.

In article , Tim Mitchell
writes
In article , sPoNiX
writes
On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 11:23:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Stuart Bell wrote:
I recently moved into a flat that, as well as having 'standard' modern
plug sockets, also has some older ones, with holes for three round pins.
I have no idea whether these are live, and guess that I could use one of
those mains tester plugs in order to check whether they're wired up
correctly, but:

a) Are they potentially usable?

If the wiring is all recent, it's common to use this sort of socket for
table lamps etc switched from a wall switch off the normal lighting
circuit.

b) Are there adapter plugs available to plug in equipment with new-style
plugs ... or replacement plugs to connect to the equipment, perhaps?

You can buy plugs from a wholesaler - even some of the larger sheds. But
these sockets - and the wiring - are of a lower rating than the normal 13
amp type - either 2 or 5 amp.

There was/is a 15amp version available as well.

15 amp is widely used in stage/theatre lighting systems, so is still
available and has been updated to have sleeved pins on the plugs,
shuttered sockets etc.

Sleeved pins, shuttered sockets etc are only required for a domestic
environment. If you go to a theatrical-type supplier you can buy the
real thing in its original deadly form :-)

In fact, 5A round pin plug/socketry is occasionally still specified for
new installations in small school/amdram situations. All these are
radial circuits with fast-blow (to protect triac-type dimmers) fuses in
the dimmer pack, which is (usually!) located in a more convenient place
than 30 feet above an audience...

Anybody remember 10A round pin plugs/sockets? I only vaguely remember
references to them as somewhere between (obviously!) 5A and 15A sizes.
At one time you could buy a card of fuse wire with three bits of wire
labelled as 5A for lighting, 10A for heating and 15A for power (whatever
"power" was!).


--
Frank Erskine

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:58:44 UTC, Frank Erskine
wrote:

Anybody remember 10A round pin plugs/sockets? I only vaguely remember
references to them as somewhere between (obviously!) 5A and 15A sizes.
At one time you could buy a card of fuse wire with three bits of wire
labelled as 5A for lighting, 10A for heating and 15A for power (whatever
"power" was!).

Yes, I remember all those! And having DC mains....

1) Setting fire to a pile of newspapers (and an armchair) when
experimentally removing a plug from its socket without switching off the
electric fire it was feeding. Nice arc!

2) Having a Tri-Ang train set powered by a rotary converter; then, one
day, changing it for this silent red box that apparently did the same
job...

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

In article , Frank Erskine
writes
In article , Tim Mitchell
writes
15 amp is widely used in stage/theatre lighting systems, so is still
available and has been updated to have sleeved pins on the plugs,
shuttered sockets etc.

Sleeved pins, shuttered sockets etc are only required for a domestic
environment. If you go to a theatrical-type supplier you can buy the
real thing in its original deadly form :-)

Not true, the regs say you must use shuttered sockets and sleeved plugs
on a new theatre install. You won't find any theatrical suppliers
selling the old type of plug or socket as the manufacturers have all
started producing safer versions.

Even if you could still get "dangerous" versions, it would be unwise to
fit them when safer designs are available.

The only disadvantage to the safe versions is that some of the 15A plug
designs include a fuse in the plug. You really don't want this in a
theatrical situation as everything is protected at the power source and
the plugs can be extremely inaccessible.
--
Tim Mitchell

In article ,
sPoNiX wrote:
You can buy plugs from a wholesaler - even some of the larger sheds.
But these sockets - and the wiring - are of a lower rating than the
normal 13 amp type - either 2 or 5 amp.

There was/is a 15amp version available as well.

Yes. But I've not seen them in a shed - they tend to be only used for
older theatre lighting etc these days. And I'd imagine any in a domestic
setting would look very old (and odd) - I don't think many make them in
modern styles.

--
*The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
sPoNiX wrote:
You can buy plugs from a wholesaler - even some of the larger sheds.
But these sockets - and the wiring - are of a lower rating than the
normal 13 amp type - either 2 or 5 amp.

There was/is a 15amp version available as well.

Yes. But I've not seen them in a shed -

I was looking for a couple of 5 A plugs and sockets in B&Q Warehouse
the other day. They had 15A ones there. But then they have all sorts in
that one, including various things specialists don't always have

--
Chris French, Leeds

In article ,
(sPoNiX) writes:
On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 11:23:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
You can buy plugs from a wholesaler - even some of the larger sheds. But
these sockets - and the wiring - are of a lower rating than the normal 13
amp type - either 2 or 5 amp.

There was/is a 15amp version available as well.

and a 30A one, but you wouldn't have found that in residential properties.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"sPoNiX" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 11:23:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Stuart Bell wrote:
I recently moved into a flat that, as well as having 'standard' modern
plug sockets, also has some older ones, with holes for three round
pins.
I have no idea whether these are live, and guess that I could use one
of
those mains tester plugs in order to check whether they're wired up
correctly, but:

a) Are they potentially usable?

If the wiring is all recent, it's common to use this sort of socket for
table lamps etc switched from a wall switch off the normal lighting
circuit.

b) Are there adapter plugs available to plug in equipment with
new-style
plugs ... or replacement plugs to connect to the equipment, perhaps?

You can buy plugs from a wholesaler - even some of the larger sheds. But
these sockets - and the wiring - are of a lower rating than the normal 13
amp type - either 2 or 5 amp.

There was/is a 15amp version available as well.



15A ones are still very widely used in the theater now. We have fusing at
one point (at the dimmers) for each circuit and fuses per plug etc would be
a total nightmare!

About the only manurfacturer for them is Duraplug. Plugs are around £3.50ea
and the trailing sockets £5.

Tim..

In article ,
Tim \(Remove NOSPAM. wrote:
15A ones are still very widely used in the theater now. We have fusing
at one point (at the dimmers) for each circuit and fuses per plug etc
would be a total nightmare!

About the only manurfacturer for them is Duraplug. Plugs are around
£3.50ea and the trailing sockets £5.

TLC list 'ordinary' plastic types at 85p plus VAT.

--
*When companies ship Styrofoam, what do they pack it in? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

15A ones are still very widely used in the theater now. We have fusing at
one point (at the dimmers) for each circuit and fuses per plug etc would be
a total nightmare!

About the only manurfacturer for them is Duraplug. Plugs are around £3.50ea
and the trailing sockets £5.

And no matter how many times you wire 'em up, you *still* forget to slip
the cover over the cable before neatly wiring up the three cores about
20% of the time, right? ;-)

"Stefek Zaba" wrote in message
...

15A ones are still very widely used in the theater now. We have fusing
at
one point (at the dimmers) for each circuit and fuses per plug etc would
be
a total nightmare!

About the only manurfacturer for them is Duraplug. Plugs are around
£3.50ea
and the trailing sockets £5.

And no matter how many times you wire 'em up, you *still* forget to slip
the cover over the cable before neatly wiring up the three cores about
20% of the time, right? ;-)

How did you know that?!?! ;--)

Tim..

"Stefek Zaba" wrote in message
...

[ re Duraplug. Plugs ]

And no matter how many times you wire 'em up, you *still* forget to slip
the cover over the cable before neatly wiring up the three cores about
20% of the time, right? ;-)


I wish I had got 5 quid each time I came across people who had done just
that and then cut the rubber to instead of starting again !...

In article , Stefek Zaba s-nilnews-
writes

15A ones are still very widely used in the theater now. We have fusing at
one point (at the dimmers) for each circuit and fuses per plug etc would be
a total nightmare!

About the only manurfacturer for them is Duraplug. Plugs are around £3.50ea
and the trailing sockets £5.

And no matter how many times you wire 'em up, you *still* forget to slip
the cover over the cable before neatly wiring up the three cores about
20% of the time, right? ;-)

The newer Duraplug ones have been modified so that you put the cover on
in the "normal" way.

--
Frank Erskine

a) Are they potentially usable?

If the wiring is all recent, it's common to use this sort of socket for
table lamps etc switched from a wall switch off the normal lighting
circuit.

Ha ha...we found this out recently. We had rented this fantastic flat done
out very swedish in style (not ikea ...which had no centre lights
throughout. On the landlords flat inspection b4 we left...he said "You do
know that those wall switches work the rounded three pins for turning your
lamps on and off?"....oh dear.

1 whole year of coming home in the dark and fumbling about for lamp
switches. Doh!!!

Glen

"Stuart Bell" wrote
| I recently moved into a flat that, as well as having 'standard'
| modern plug sockets, also has some older ones, with holes for
| three round pins.

Are these *old* sockets, or new sockets with round pins? In upmarket
properties (or those rewired by people with cluefulness) round pin sockets
are sometimes used for table lights controlled by wall switches.

Or someone might have (re)used the old wiring for speakers, etc.

| I have no idea whether these are live, and guess that I could use
| one of those mains tester plugs in order to check whether they're
| wired up correctly, but:

| a) Are they potentially usable?

Potentially yes, but if they are old wiring there is probably good reason
for not using them and disconnecting them (ie the wiring is knacked, still
on old fuses, etc). Knacked wiring will not necessarily be revealed by a
mains tester plug; more extensive inspection/test would be required.

| b) Are there adapter plugs available to plug in equipment with new-style
| plugs ... or replacement plugs to connect to the equipment, perhaps?

2A and 5A plugs are available in B&Q. 15A plugs available from other places.
Especially if they are 15A plugs you should use a 15A
plug-to-extension-socket, so the appliance retains its 13A *fused* plug, so
that an appliance that requires a 3A fuse is suitably protected (assuming
you have the correct fuses in your 13A plugs to start with) rather than
relying on a 15A rewirable fuse in the fusebox.

Owain

Stuart Bell wrote in message ...
Hi folks,

I recently moved into a flat that, as well as having 'standard' modern
plug sockets, also has some older ones, with holes for three round pins.
I have no idea whether these are live, and guess that I could use one of
those mains tester plugs in order to check whether they're wired up
correctly, but:

a) Are they potentially usable?

b) Are there adapter plugs available to plug in equipment with new-style
plugs ... or replacement plugs to connect to the equipment, perhaps?

Any advice would be appreciated -- my knowledge of such things is
sketchy to say the least!

Thanks,
Stuart.

Id like to think they should be dead if they are Live it sounds like
ur installation needs a full inspection doing ASAP.
The small 2 and 5 Amp BS546 outlets are still used for supllying lamps
on lighting circuits but not for anything other in domestic
installations.

Jon.

(John Southern) wrote in message . com...


If they turn out to be several decades old, theres little point in
inspecting, they will have no possibility of passing anything.

NT

In article ,
(John Southern) writes:
The small 2 and 5 Amp BS546 outlets are still used for supllying lamps
on lighting circuits but not for anything other in domestic
installations.

In Italy, the 2A ones are the telephone outlet -- ouch!
I'm sure someone somewhere must have plugged an Italian
phone into a 240V 2A outlet...

--
Andrew Gabriel

Most other posts apply but in summary:

If it 5A (or possibly 2A but I suspect not) and is switched by a fixed
light switch somewhere nearby then it is probably safe to use for a light.

If it is anything else then it probably isn't safe.

Mike

Stuart Bell wrote:
Hi folks,

I recently moved into a flat that, as well as having 'standard' modern
plug sockets, also has some older ones, with holes for three round pins.
I have no idea whether these are live, and guess that I could use one of
those mains tester plugs in order to check whether they're wired up
correctly, but:

a) Are they potentially usable?

b) Are there adapter plugs available to plug in equipment with new-style
plugs ... or replacement plugs to connect to the equipment, perhaps?

Any advice would be appreciated -- my knowledge of such things is
sketchy to say the least!

Thanks,
Stuart.

Mike said the following:
Most other posts apply but in summary:

If it 5A (or possibly 2A but I suspect not) and is switched by a fixed
light switch somewhere nearby then it is probably safe to use for a light.

If it is anything else then it probably isn't safe.

Neat summary :-) Thanks to everyone for your advice and suggestions,
both on and off the newsgroup. The building I'm in dates back to the
13th century, but I suspect the electrical wiring is more recent ;-)
Nevertheless, I would imagine it's fairly old, and so I don't think I'm
going to take the risk of randomly plugging things into it...

Thanks,
Stuart.

In article ,
Stuart Bell wrote:
Neat summary :-) Thanks to everyone for your advice and suggestions,
both on and off the newsgroup. The building I'm in dates back to the
13th century, but I suspect the electrical wiring is more recent ;-)
Nevertheless, I would imagine it's fairly old, and so I don't think I'm
going to take the risk of randomly plugging things into it...

Turn *everything* off at the main switch(es). Remove one of the round pin
sockets and examine the wiring. If it's PVC and the earth is connected,
they're probably fine. If it's rubber, with or without an earth, seek pro
help. Although it is possible they've just been left there after a re-wire
to save repairing the holes.

--
*I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ...
In article ,
Stuart Bell wrote:
Neat summary :-) Thanks to everyone for your advice and suggestions,
both on and off the newsgroup. The building I'm in dates back to the
13th century, but I suspect the electrical wiring is more recent ;-)
Nevertheless, I would imagine it's fairly old, and so I don't think I'm
going to take the risk of randomly plugging things into it...

Turn *everything* off at the main switch(es). Remove one of the round pin
sockets and examine the wiring. If it's PVC and the earth is connected,
they're probably fine. If it's rubber, with or without an earth, seek pro
help. Although it is possible they've just been left there after a re-wire
to save repairing the holes.


Dont do this, as any movement of perished rubber wiring, even by half
an inch, is liable to result in a fire. You can judge the age just by
looking at the sockets. If theyre brown, arent square, and possibly
mounted on their own contoured plinths, its ancient. If theyre white
and square, same size as a modern single socket, its modern.

Regards, NT

In article ,
N. Thornton wrote:
Turn *everything* off at the main switch(es). Remove one of the round
pin sockets and examine the wiring. If it's PVC and the earth is
connected, they're probably fine. If it's rubber, with or without an
earth, seek pro help. Although it is possible they've just been left
there after a re-wire to save repairing the holes.


Dont do this, as any movement of perished rubber wiring, even by half
an inch, is liable to result in a fire.

Which part of 'turn everything off' didn't you read? ;-)

You can judge the age just by
looking at the sockets. If theyre brown, arent square, and possibly
mounted on their own contoured plinths, its ancient. If theyre white
and square, same size as a modern single socket, its modern.

It's possible the wiring has been replaced without the sockets themselves.
And, of course, the reverse. Take nothing for granted with electrics.
Always check - or have things checked - if you have any suspicions.

--
*We waste time, so you don't have to *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.