Greetings,
The Sikkens web site is less than clear to me...

Can anyone help a newby and clarify the useage and differences between:
Cetol HLS, Cetol Filter7, Cetol THB, Novatech and Novatop?

I'm considering one of the above, or Sabrina Oak Oil (www.oakdoors.co.uk) as
a finish for a new, exterior, oak door.

Any general thoughts / comments on appropriate finishing als welcome!

Thanks,

Mike A.

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:42:47 +0100, Mike Abbott wrote:


Greetings,
The Sikkens web site is less than clear to me...

Can anyone help a newby and clarify the useage and differences between:
Cetol HLS, Cetol Filter7, Cetol THB, Novatech and Novatop?

I'm considering one of the above, or Sabrina Oak Oil (www.oakdoors.co.uk) as
a finish for a new, exterior, oak door.

Any general thoughts / comments on appropriate finishing als welcome!

Thanks,

Mike A.

I would not use any of the Sikkens type treatments or any other
varnish for an exterior oak door - you will ruin the appearance.

I have a front door and frame (plus other joinery) manufactured by
Sabrina - and excellent they are as well.

For the outside of the front door (which is somewhat exposed but under
a porch), I have used the Sabrina oak oil to excellent effect.

I maintain it once or twice a year as follows.

- clean off dirt with vacuum cleaner - I use air line as well but not
absolutely needed.

- wipe down with rag soaked in water/detergent.

- wipe with rag soaked in white spirit.

- apply oak oil moderately with a brush and allow to soak in for ten
minutes.

- wipe off excess with a rag.

- apply a second coat of oil after a few hours and wipe off.


Total time taken is an hour, tops, and the results are excellent.

The inside of the door is stained, shellaced and polished with beeswax
- different effect.

Either way, please don't use varnish on natural oak - it's sacrilege.
:-)








..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:42:47 +0100, Mike Abbott wrote:

Any general thoughts / comments on appropriate finishing als welcome!

Oil alone isn't really an adequate finish for a front door. It's OK
for some external oak, but a door is just too obvious and needs
something that looks a bit more "finished". I'd suggest either a _gel_
poly varnish, or a Danish oil.

Gel polys are applied by wiping with a rag. Because they're applied so
thin, two coats in a reasonable finish, but it doesn't have the ugly
plastic look of most polys.

Danish oils are a generic term for oil + varnish mixes, and there's a
lot of difference between brands. They have more UV and weather
resistance than plain oils. For best results, try a yacht chandlers -
there's a range of decorative wood finishes of the danish oil variety
that are intended to look their best even if this requires re-coating
every few years for best appearance (depending on how much weather you
get) Avoid "spar" varnishes though, those are intended to be proof
against movement and often don't look particularly good close up. As
they're only a small varnish component, then you can re-coat these
easily in the future without needing to strip the old finish.

You might even use an extra-hard formaldehyde floor finish (Rustin's
floorcoat), then knock the gloss back a little with rottenstone or
pumice. Because it's so hard you can do this, whereas a poly is too
soft to really allow surface matting.

Another trick (in the appropriate situation) is just to ammonia fume
the thing and make it look old, then apply a plain oil finish and
allow it to work its way through to ancient.

--
Smert' spamionam

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:01:04 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:42:47 +0100, Mike Abbott wrote:

Any general thoughts / comments on appropriate finishing als welcome!

Oil alone isn't really an adequate finish for a front door. It's OK
for some external oak, but a door is just too obvious and needs
something that looks a bit more "finished". I'd suggest either a _gel_
poly varnish, or a Danish oil.

This really depends on the degree of exposure of the door.

If it is frequently subject to driving rain then I'd agree that Danish
Oil would be a good choice - I like it as a finish.

However, if the door is reasonably sheltered (e.g. under a porch) then
plain oil is absolutely fine IME. The Sabrina stuff is natural
turpentine, boiled linseed oil and beeswax. I find that I need to
do a quick maintenance job 1-2 times a year on my front door and it
continues to look great,.




Gel polys are applied by wiping with a rag. Because they're applied so
thin, two coats in a reasonable finish, but it doesn't have the ugly
plastic look of most polys.

As a matter of interest, do you know of any UK brand names for these?
I've seen them in the U.S.



Danish oils are a generic term for oil + varnish mixes, and there's a
lot of difference between brands. They have more UV and weather
resistance than plain oils. For best results, try a yacht chandlers -
there's a range of decorative wood finishes of the danish oil variety
that are intended to look their best even if this requires re-coating
every few years for best appearance (depending on how much weather you
get) Avoid "spar" varnishes though, those are intended to be proof
against movement and often don't look particularly good close up. As
they're only a small varnish component, then you can re-coat these
easily in the future without needing to strip the old finish.

You might even use an extra-hard formaldehyde floor finish (Rustin's
floorcoat), then knock the gloss back a little with rottenstone or
pumice. Because it's so hard you can do this, whereas a poly is too
soft to really allow surface matting.

Another trick (in the appropriate situation) is just to ammonia fume
the thing and make it look old, then apply a plain oil finish and
allow it to work its way through to ancient.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 02:47:08 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

This really depends on the degree of exposure of the door.

Agreed.


The Sabrina stuff is natural
turpentine, boiled linseed oil and beeswax.

What a bizarre combination. What's the wax doing in there ?

Gel polys

As a matter of interest, do you know of any UK brand names for these?
I've seen them in the U.S.

Not many - they're certainly rare over here. Easiest to find is
Screwfix's "Patina".

--
Smert' spamionam

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 11:34:59 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 02:47:08 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

This really depends on the degree of exposure of the door.

Agreed.


The Sabrina stuff is natural
turpentine, boiled linseed oil and beeswax.

What a bizarre combination. What's the wax doing in there ?

Mmm. I know. Works well though, and does seem to extend time
between treatments. I've used it indoors for various joinery and the
floors.



Gel polys

As a matter of interest, do you know of any UK brand names for these?
I've seen them in the U.S.

Not many - they're certainly rare over here. Easiest to find is
Screwfix's "Patina".

Ah OK. I'll check into a few of the U.S. vendors and see if they
have distribution outside the U.S.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

[snip]

Any opinions on, and experiences with, Rustin's Flexterior
(http://www.rustins.co.uk/ext_coat.html#fl_ext) on external oak?

--
Andy

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:14:22 +0100, "Andy Wade"
wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

[snip]

Any opinions on, and experiences with, Rustin's Flexterior
(http://www.rustins.co.uk/ext_coat.html#fl_ext) on external oak?

Yes. I used that on the front doorstep, also oak.

The reason was to provide a high degree of protection to the step,
because, although I could train the kids not to step on it and mark
it, doing so with their friends was not as succesful.

It does have quite a high gloss, so I would not use it on a large area
like a complete door - it would make it look like plastic. For the
step it was a trade off.

The main oiled area of the door has a rich colour similar to some
kinds of clear honey, whereas the Flexterior on the step has fixed it
at its original colour. I did the Flexterior three years ago and it
has done a really good job. Part of the step is in full sun for part
of the day, and there is no sign of deterioration.

When I redo it, I will probably strip the lot off and lightly stain
the step which is more the colour of cloudy honey.

I used four coats of Flexterior, thinning the first and then *very*
lightly sanding between coats. You do need to allow a good 24hrs
between coats because it has a long drying time. It seems to take
about 2 hours to get to the point where arriving insects don't get
stuck in it.

If you are looking for good durability, I would definitely recommend
this product, but as I say, not on a large area if you want the wood
to look at all natural.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
Yes. I used that on the front doorstep, also oak.

It does have quite a high gloss, so I would not use it on a large
area like a complete door - it would make it look like plastic.
[...]
If you are looking for good durability, I would definitely recommend
this product, but as I say, not on a large area if you want the wood
to look at all natural.

Thanks - just the answer I was looking for. Their web site doesn't really
indicate the degree of glossiness. Needing to re-do the front portal some
time, I might go for a similar combination: Flexterior on the step and
Danish oil elsewhere.

--
Andy

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 18:31:08 +0100, "Andy Wade"
wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
Yes. I used that on the front doorstep, also oak.

It does have quite a high gloss, so I would not use it on a large
area like a complete door - it would make it look like plastic.
[...]
If you are looking for good durability, I would definitely recommend
this product, but as I say, not on a large area if you want the wood
to look at all natural.

Thanks - just the answer I was looking for. Their web site doesn't really
indicate the degree of glossiness. Needing to re-do the front portal some
time, I might go for a similar combination: Flexterior on the step and
Danish oil elsewhere.

I think that that's reasonable. The oil that I use, or Danish Oil
for that matter does not put anything much above a matt to satin
appearance on the wood.

The thing is that the door is in front of your eyes, whereas the step
is not so it is not really noticable unless the sun shines across it.

Up closer, wood coated with Flexterior does have a slight appearance
of having been dipped in plastic - probably because the layers of
varnish end up being fairly thick.
The gloss is not as high as yacht varnish but is more than satin if
that helps...





..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Just wanted to thank you folks for the info above. Very useful.

In the end I went for the Sikkens (HLS + Filter7). While I much prefered the
oil finish the balance of opinion was that it wouldn't give the weather
protection I needed.

The result looks OK - but the Sikkens 'light oak' looks too 'orange' for my
taste. Hopefully a little weathering might improve it.

With the benefit of hindsight (and a little more info from Sikkens - their
website is less than spectacular) I'd have gone for their water-based
alternative - Cetol BL21 + Cetol BL31. On the next job perhaps.

Thanks again,

Mike A.

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:12:57 +0100, Mike Abbott wrote:



Just wanted to thank you folks for the info above. Very useful.

In the end I went for the Sikkens (HLS + Filter7). While I much prefered the
oil finish the balance of opinion was that it wouldn't give the weather
protection I needed.

Is it directly exposed to driving rain? If not, oil would have been a
more appealing finish and perfectly adequate.

I just redid my front door. I normally do it twice a year and it
looks great.



The result looks OK - but the Sikkens 'light oak' looks too 'orange' for my
taste. Hopefully a little weathering might improve it.

I am afraid that it will become more orange looking as the UV affects
it.



With the benefit of hindsight (and a little more info from Sikkens - their
website is less than spectacular) I'd have gone for their water-based
alternative - Cetol BL21 + Cetol BL31. On the next job perhaps.

Thanks again,

Mike A.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Mike Abbott" wrote in message
...


Just wanted to thank you folks for the info above. Very useful.

In the end I went for the Sikkens (HLS + Filter7). While I much prefered
the
oil finish the balance of opinion was that it wouldn't give the weather
protection I needed.



Be warned that Filter 7 does not last as well as it says ..... I have to
redo all of my outside every other year ... the stain just fades away.

I am using Filter 7 deal (or pine depending on tin) over Sapelle, it looks
great for first few months but does not wear as well as it should.

Rick

replying to Andy Hall, Roy Peebles wrote:
Sikkens is not a varnish. It is a hydrporous wood coating which allows the
timber to breath. An excellent product for a hardwood door.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy...oak-96963-.htm

On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:14:04 GMT
Roy Peebles m wrote:

replying to Andy Hall, Roy Peebles wrote:
Sikkens is not a varnish. It is a hydrporous wood coating which
allows the timber to breath. An excellent product for a hardwood door.


After 14 years, it might be worth asking him how it worked out!

--
Davey.

In message , Davey
writes
On Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:14:04 GMT
Roy Peebles m wrote:

replying to Andy Hall, Roy Peebles wrote:

After 14 years, it might be worth asking him how it worked out!

He would need an Ouija board :-(
--
Graeme

On 19/06/2018 21:04, Graeme wrote:

replying to Andy Hall, Roy Peebles wrote:

After 14 years, it might be worth asking him how it worked out!

He would need an Ouija board :-(

No argument in this case ...