Notice some recent ones have an 8 pin power connector on the board (CPU?)
Older ones more usually 4. Which explains why my fairly recent PS has an 8
pin that can be split into 4+4

But it also has an additional 8 pin (PCI?) connector which looks similar,
and can be split into a 6+2 But by the wire colours, could cause a rather
big bang if mixed up with the other one. They do seem to have shaped pin
shrouds, but I'd guess that wouldn't stop a determined push.

--
*WHAT IF THERE WERE NO HYPOTHETICAL QUESTIONS?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 07/07/2020 14:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Notice some recent ones have an 8 pin power connector on the board (CPU?)
Older ones more usually 4. Which explains why my fairly recent PS has an 8
pin that can be split into 4+4

Yup, so called standby power...

But it also has an additional 8 pin (PCI?) connector which looks similar,
and can be split into a 6+2 But by the wire colours, could cause a rather
big bang if mixed up with the other one.

Normally to feed extra power to a graphics card.

They do seem to have shaped pin
shrouds, but I'd guess that wouldn't stop a determined push.

They are in theory keyed / polarised to prevent that - but as they say,
you can never make anything foolproof since fools are so ingenious!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Dave Plowman wrote:

Notice some recent ones have an 8 pin power connector on the board (CPU?)
Older ones more usually 4. Which explains why my fairly recent PS has an 8
pin that can be split into 4+4

The extra 4 pins are just in parallel with the first 4 pins of the
ATX12V connector, and only become necessary with the more greedy CPUs
(10, 12, 14, 16 core) the really high power servers use different sockets.

But it also has an additional 8 pin (PCI?) connector which looks similar,
and can be split into a 6+2 But by the wire colours, could cause a rather
big bang if mixed up with the other one. They do seem to have shaped pin
shrouds, but I'd guess that wouldn't stop a determined push.

Again the 8pin vs 6pin are only needed for top-end GPUs, though they're
often fitted 'for show' on graphics cards that don't come close to
needing 2x 8pin power cables.#

John Rumm wrote:
On 07/07/2020 14:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Notice some recent ones have an 8 pin power connector on the board (CPU?)
Older ones more usually 4. Which explains why my fairly recent PS has
an 8
pin that can be split into 4+4

Yup, so called standby power...

But it also has an additional 8 pin (PCI?) connector which looks similar,
and can be split into a 6+2 But by the wire colours, could cause a rather
big bang if mixed up with the other one.

Normally to feed extra power to a graphics card.

They do seem to have shaped pin
shrouds, but I'd guess that wouldn't stop a determined push.

They are in theory keyed / polarised to prevent that - but as they say,
you can never make anything foolproof since fools are so ingenious!

About 75% down this page, is info on the 4+4.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psucon...onnectors.html

The 2x2 part, with two 6 amp wires per rail, gives 12V * 12A = 144W
of power transfer. If the VCore converter was 90% efficient, this
is sufficient to run a 130W processor.

If using all eight wires, then that would cover power needs up to 260W
of actual CPU power.

Modern processors (you're building a system today) can stretch
past TDP. If you check ark.intel.com , the power number there
may not be sufficiently informative about power, to make selection
of 4 versus 8 very scientific.

And there are some CPUs up at the 250W level, so that 8 pin capacity
could get used in such cases. Maybe an AMD Epyc or so.

The wires take 6 to 10 amps. The wires can carry less current safely,
when there are more Molex pins side by side. The main connector
has a 6 amp rating on the wires in it. The smaller connector could
carry more current, especially if the wire gauge was beefed up a bit.
So when using 260W of usable CPU power from VCore, there's probably
still room for a bit more there. The 260W rating is probably conservative.

At idle, Intel processors can use somewhere around 13W (12V @ 1.1A
or so). That leaves plenty of headroom, on the ampacity of the
wiring on that connector when the machine is idle.

"Standby power" is the +5VSB pin on the main connector. Usually
power supplies range up to 3A on that pin. When the computer
sleeps, a four memory slot computer uses 5W (5V @ 1A). If charging
an Apple iPad, at an additional 2A, that could use all the available
3A of power on +5VSB. And the fan does not spin while the power
supply is making standby power (convection cooled). If the computer
has eight DIMM slots, the power used during sleep might be 7.4W
(a different generation of RAM using less power). And then you'd
have less current for device charging. The power used by the DIMMs,
is for auto-refresh while the computer sleeps.

If the industry had used static RAM, such as the MK4028 in some
old pinball machines, static power with no clock on a device
would use zero power. The denser DRAM devices, we pay for the
convenience of extra capacity, in the form of power usage
while in S3 sleep. I get my power numbers in instances like
this, by using a Kill-O-Watt meter used just by the PC
(it allows estimating stuff without opening the computer case).

And USENET posters claim to have forced wrong things into
holes, but I think they're pulling my leg :-) One individual
for example, claimed to be stupid enough, to take a DIMM
into the shop, and cut an extra slot in it, so it would fit
the socket on the board he wanted it to fit in. The slots
for UDIMM versus RDIMM, where the keys are adjacent to one another,
make it theoretically possible for a clever sort, to be
claiming to be making changes to the DIMM "so it'll fit".
As if the factory "made a mistake". Ow, my leg.

At one time, the 12V rails, like 12V1 and 12V2, adhered to the
low voltage rating limit "per rail" of 12V @ 20A. Modern supplies
can have a single AC transformer making available up to 70A of DC,
and you'd say "well, what happens if all 70A goes down X wires on a short?".
There should be current flow monitors on various looms, to still
enforce some current flow limitations, to prevent a gooey
mess of melted wire insulation or any glowing wires. They
could, if they wanted, monitor the current on the 4+4,
pretend it's two separate rails, and cap the current at 20A for
each 4, or 40A at most. The entire 70A should not be able
to flow, without the PSU shutting off perhaps. You can test
these behaviors, on a professional ATX load tester (Anandtech
or Tomshardware or JonnyGuru has one too). It would be
more difficult to do this on your own lab bench with
some ceramic resistor banks.

The supply in that example, would have a 70A limit enforced
somehow, as an overall limit. But it also has monitors on
separate looms (12V1, 12V2, 12V3 and so on). Only a few
brands bother with a diagram showing details like that.
The 12V1, 12V2, 12V3 all start from the same place, so it's
not possible for currents to flow from 12V1 to 12V2 if you
mix them. But if you're clever, you could partially defeat
any 20A limiters in the path. And the limiters aren't exactly
20A either, they could trip at some higher level such as 26A.
Only a bench test (preferably with a real ATX tester on
someone elses bench) would dig out more exact details.
An examination of the distribution PCB (on the modular supplies)
might hint at how current limits are enforced.

Paul

This also happened to the stardust Mission when the last chute did not
deploy, as the drogue deploy should have activated the accellaromemeter and
would have if it had not been put on upside down.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 07 Jul 2020 14:58:10 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

but I'd guess that wouldn't stop a determined push.

For some reason reminds me of a Russian rocket fail where an
accelerometer had been fitted upside down, despite being shaped to only
fit one way.

The crash report noted from the engineers that it took "some effort" to
get it into place

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

Notice some recent ones have an 8 pin power connector on the board
(CPU?) Older ones more usually 4. Which explains why my fairly recent
PS has an 8 pin that can be split into 4+4

The extra 4 pins are just in parallel with the first 4 pins of the
ATX12V connector, and only become necessary with the more greedy CPUs
(10, 12, 14, 16 core) the really high power servers use different
sockets.

Thanks - I'd sort of guessed that.

But it also has an additional 8 pin (PCI?) connector which looks
similar, and can be split into a 6+2 But by the wire colours, could
cause a rather big bang if mixed up with the other one. They do seem
to have shaped pin shrouds, but I'd guess that wouldn't stop a
determined push.

Again the 8pin vs 6pin are only needed for top-end GPUs, though they're
often fitted 'for show' on graphics cards that don't come close to
needing 2x 8pin power cables.#

Never had one that needed it. ;-)

But if I were designing such a device, I'd make sure you couldn't
inadvertently fit a connector with the wrong polarity. Surely there are
plenty connectors out there which could have been used? Even more so given
they fitted a different connector for SATA power.

--
*The most common name in the world is Mohammed *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Paul wrote:
And USENET posters claim to have forced wrong things into
holes, but I think they're pulling my leg :-)

I did Google it and lots of hits.

Understandable if a replacement PS had an 8 pin and 4 pin connector, and
one not needed for the graphics card. The natural reaction would be to use
the 8 pin one.

However, with a dead short across the 12v rail, I'd expect a decent PS not
to start up?

--
*A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/07/2020 14:00, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Paul wrote:
And USENET posters claim to have forced wrong things into
holes, but I think they're pulling my leg :-)

I did Google it and lots of hits.

Understandable if a replacement PS had an 8 pin and 4 pin connector, and
one not needed for the graphics card. The natural reaction would be to use
the 8 pin one.

However, with a dead short across the 12v rail, I'd expect a decent PS not
to start up?


When I upgraded my 2008 PC in 2011 I had to buy an adaptor
cable from Novatech, Portsmouth :-

MBB-10554G X6 1055T Gigabyte 4g 880G

NEX-2024 Pwr adapter 20 Pin F - 24 Pin

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


But if I were designing such a device, I'd make sure you couldn't
inadvertently fit a connector with the wrong polarity. Surely there are
plenty connectors out there which could have been used? Even more so given
they fitted a different connector for SATA power.

SATA was designed with enterprise servers in mind.
It allows making slide-in/slide-out drive installation,
and the connector mates without a fuss.

The cabling for desktop computers, to work with SATA, was
an afterthought. The first generation of desktop cabling
had no retention feature and the connectors would fall off.
Something they would have noticed if they were awake.

Paul

On 08/07/2020 20:13, Paul wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


But if I were designing such a device, I'd make sure you couldn't
inadvertently fit a connector with the wrong polarity. Surely there are
plenty connectors out there which could have been used? Even more so
given
they fitted a different connector for SATA power.

SATA was designed with enterprise servers in mind.
It allows making slide-in/slide-out drive installation,
and the connector mates without a fuss.

The cabling for desktop computers, to work with SATA, was
an afterthought. The first generation of desktop cabling
had no retention feature and the connectors would fall off.
Something they would have noticed if they were awake.

Â*Â* Paul

Or thermal cycling means that all of a sudden the PC
starts logging all manner of funny disk errors, that
are fixed by removing and re-inserting the cable
on the drive and M/B. They don't even seem to bother
with gold flashing the contacts on the cable now either.

On 08/07/2020 20:13, Paul wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


But if I were designing such a device, I'd make sure you couldn't
inadvertently fit a connector with the wrong polarity. Surely there are
plenty connectors out there which could have been used? Even more so
given
they fitted a different connector for SATA power.

SATA was designed with enterprise servers in mind.
It allows making slide-in/slide-out drive installation,
and the connector mates without a fuss.

The cabling for desktop computers, to work with SATA, was
an afterthought. The first generation of desktop cabling
had no retention feature and the connectors would fall off.
Something they would have noticed if they were awake.

Â*Â* Paul

Or thermal cycling means that all of a sudden the PC
starts logging all manner of funny disk errors, that
are fixed by removing and re-inserting the cable
on the drive and M/B. They don't even seem to bother
with gold flashing the contacts on the cable now either.

On 08/07/2020 20:13, Paul wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


But if I were designing such a device, I'd make sure you couldn't
inadvertently fit a connector with the wrong polarity. Surely there are
plenty connectors out there which could have been used? Even more so
given
they fitted a different connector for SATA power.

SATA was designed with enterprise servers in mind.
It allows making slide-in/slide-out drive installation,
and the connector mates without a fuss.

The cabling for desktop computers, to work with SATA, was
an afterthought. The first generation of desktop cabling
had no retention feature and the connectors would fall off.
Something they would have noticed if they were awake.

Â*Â* Paul

Or thermal cycling means that all of a sudden the PC
starts logging all manner of funny disk errors, that
are fixed by removing and re-inserting the cable
on the drive and M/B. They don't even seem to bother
with gold flashing the contacts on the cable now either.

On 08/07/2020 20:13, Paul wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


But if I were designing such a device, I'd make sure you couldn't
inadvertently fit a connector with the wrong polarity. Surely there are
plenty connectors out there which could have been used? Even more so
given
they fitted a different connector for SATA power.

SATA was designed with enterprise servers in mind.
It allows making slide-in/slide-out drive installation,
and the connector mates without a fuss.

The cabling for desktop computers, to work with SATA, was
an afterthought. The first generation of desktop cabling
had no retention feature and the connectors would fall off.
Something they would have noticed if they were awake.

Â*Â* Paul

Or thermal cycling means that all of a sudden the PC
starts logging all manner of funny disk errors, that
are fixed by removing and re-inserting the cable
on the drive and M/B. They don't even seem to bother
with gold flashing the contacts on the cable now either.

My new one arrived yesterday.

Was hoping to use my old graphics card. It has the same PCI slot fitting,
but on switching on got multiple bleeps and nothing. Not even the Bios
page.

Other thing is multiple boot isn't as easy. I fitted a new HD for Win 10
and was hoping to be able to boot to the old Win7 one as an alternative
too. Something to do with EFI.

--
*Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

Paul wrote:

Is this a PCI Express video card ?

Yes. Asus EN7300TC512. But this new mother board says it has PCI Express
3. No clue if earlier - 1 or 2 are compatible.

Yes they are.

Does BIOS/UEFI have a setting to prefer PEG (PCI Express Graphics) or
IGD (Integrated graphics device)?

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

Paul wrote:

Is this a PCI Express video card ?

Yes. Asus EN7300TC512. But this new mother board says it has PCI Express
3. No clue if earlier - 1 or 2 are compatible.

Yes they are.

Does BIOS/UEFI have a setting to prefer PEG (PCI Express Graphics) or
IGD (Integrated graphics device)?

The problem was inserting the graphics card turned the MB into a bleeping
wreck. Couldn't even get to the Bios page.

After some experimenting with it unplugged, changed the PCIE bifurcation
support from auto to PCIE x8/x8, so it at least now boots. Just got to
find the drivers for it now. ;-)

The old MB had a nice simple Bios page. This one looks designed to keep
geeks happy.

--
Is the hardness of the butter proportional to the softness of the bread?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

Paul wrote:

Is this a PCI Express video card ?

Yes. Asus EN7300TC512. But this new mother board says it has PCI Express
3. No clue if earlier - 1 or 2 are compatible.

Yes they are.

Does BIOS/UEFI have a setting to prefer PEG (PCI Express Graphics) or
IGD (Integrated graphics device)?

The problem was inserting the graphics card turned the MB into a bleeping
wreck. Couldn't even get to the Bios page.

After some experimenting with it unplugged, changed the PCIE bifurcation
support from auto to PCIE x8/x8, so it at least now boots. Just got to
find the drivers for it now. ;-)

The old MB had a nice simple Bios page. This one looks designed to keep
geeks happy.

Back to square one. It's showing the 'VGA' fault LED on the MB again, and
refusing to start.

Could it be a PS thing? it's a relatively recent one and 500w which the MB
booklet says should be OK.

The MB has an 8 pin socket for 12V to the CPU and another 4 pin one along
side it. My PS only has the 8 pin one. My DVM shows all those sockets just
wired in parallel.

With everything plugged up and working, I'm seeing 5.2v and 12.3v at a
spare Molex.

The other odd thing is the thing won't power up with no monitor
connected to the onboard HDMI connector (no video card in place)

--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

It's showing the 'VGA' fault LED on the MB again, and
refusing to start.

You mentioned the GPU model, but not the M/B model as far as I can see?

Sounds like it's not certain if it should be using PCI or onboards
graphics ...

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

It's showing the 'VGA' fault LED on the MB again, and
refusing to start.

You mentioned the GPU model, but not the M/B model as far as I can see?

Sounds like it's not certain if it should be using PCI or onboards
graphics ...

It's a Gigabyte Z490 Vision G. Intel core i7 10700. 32Gb HyperX Fury.
Graphics say Intel UHD 630

The internal graphics should be OK for my purposes - expect that my other
bits (KVM) and monitor are DVI. Which is for this computer. Hence wanting
to use the DVI graphics card.

I've got several HDMI to DVI leads, but the HDMI output on the MB doesn't
like them and throws up the warning light.

--
*Succeed, in spite of management *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Gigabyte Z490 Vision G. Intel core i7 10700. 32Gb HyperX Fury.
Graphics say Intel UHD 630

The internal graphics should be OK for my purposes

So in BIOS/UEFI have you set
Initial Display Output = IGFX

expect that my other
bits (KVM) and monitor are DVI. Which is for this computer. Hence wanting
to use the DVI graphics card.

I've got several HDMI to DVI leads, but the HDMI output on the MB doesn't
like them and throws up the warning light.

HDMI - DVI-D should be just a passive cable not an active adapter
(within the limits of single link).

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

Paul wrote:

Is this a PCI Express video card ?
Yes. Asus EN7300TC512. But this new mother board says it has PCI Express
3. No clue if earlier - 1 or 2 are compatible.

Yes they are.

Does BIOS/UEFI have a setting to prefer PEG (PCI Express Graphics) or
IGD (Integrated graphics device)?

The problem was inserting the graphics card turned the MB into a bleeping
wreck. Couldn't even get to the Bios page.

After some experimenting with it unplugged, changed the PCIE bifurcation
support from auto to PCIE x8/x8, so it at least now boots. Just got to
find the drivers for it now. ;-)

The old MB had a nice simple Bios page. This one looks designed to keep
geeks happy.

Back to square one. It's showing the 'VGA' fault LED on the MB again, and
refusing to start.

Could it be a PS thing? it's a relatively recent one and 500w which the MB
booklet says should be OK.

The MB has an 8 pin socket for 12V to the CPU and another 4 pin one along
side it. My PS only has the 8 pin one. My DVM shows all those sockets just
wired in parallel.

With everything plugged up and working, I'm seeing 5.2v and 12.3v at a
spare Molex.

The other odd thing is the thing won't power up with no monitor
connected to the onboard HDMI connector (no video card in place)


I hope you're doing all this fine testing *without* the KVM in the circuit.

Test first with monitor direct to passive adapter cable.

I can't suggest a DP to Dual Link DVI-D in this case,
because for an item which is actually an active device,
the price they ask can be almost as much as a video card.
The cheap ones (with "Active" printed in white paint on
the housing), are obviously not active and are a scam.
You can do DP to HDMI to single link DVI digitally and
passive, at a guess, and that could be what the cheap
ones are scamming. (The only way to get true dual link
DVI, is with an active conversion. That gets say, 2560x1600.)

Your old card EN7300TC512 may be DVI-I. That gives two possible
ways the monitor can (eventually) pick up a signal, through
your old cabling and KVM. The DVI is single link. That also
means the HDMI to DVI passive (which is a single link),
should work from a resolution perspective. Because
that's what you were driving out with before. You could
check your cabling to see if it's DVI-D only or
DVI-I (capable of either) on the output of the KVM side.

Video features
Maximum digital resolution: 1920 x 1200
Maximum VGA resolution: 2048 x 1536

If the monitor was actually using the VGA signal, the KVM
would probably place a ruination on such a signal, and cable
reflections tend to make a mockery of VGA at extreme res.
At 1920x1080, DVI-D and VGA are about equal. Above that,
the VGA might look a bit worse.

A KVM can sometimes interfere with DDC/CI and the reading
of EDID.

I'm sure the dialing in of this setup, is coming soon... :-)
You have the materials. Knowing what crockery hides
inside the KVM is part of the fun. If the signal looks
like ****, maybe the KVM is doing DVI to VGA ?

I have a HDMI to VGA and a DP to VGA here (active devices),
and both of them look fine on VGA. But the older stuff might
not be as good. Adapters like that are more reasonably priced
than DP to Dual Link DVI-D (for no particular reason).

You should have put the video card in the slot closest
to the processor, and that would have removed the
dramatics of the bifurcation logic. It should "just work"
in slot 1.

I don't know why you're getting a VGA warning when
it can't detect a monitor. The Intel graphics, like
any other video card, should be able to do impedance
sensing and know some 100 ohm loads are on the diff
pairs for the RGB signals. It should really drive out
a VESA signal, even without EDID. The impedance
tells it a monitor is there, and the monitor should
be "safe" with 800x600 or 1024x768 on it.

Paul

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Gigabyte Z490 Vision G. Intel core i7 10700. 32Gb HyperX Fury.
Graphics say Intel UHD 630

The internal graphics should be OK for my purposes

So in BIOS/UEFI have you set
Initial Display Output = IGFX

At the moment it's set to auto.

expect that my other bits (KVM) and monitor are DVI. Which is for this
computer. Hence wanting to use the DVI graphics card.

I've got several HDMI to DVI leads, but the HDMI output on the MB
doesn't like them and throws up the warning light.

HDMI - DVI-D should be just a passive cable not an active adapter
(within the limits of single link).

They are just cables. Some seem to have all the DVI pins, some only some
of them.

None work via the KVM switch. Which worked just fine on the DVI output of
the original graphics card - hence wanting to use it now.

--
*Re-elect nobody

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Paul wrote:
I don't know why you're getting a VGA warning when
it can't detect a monitor. The Intel graphics, like
any other video card, should be able to do impedance
sensing and know some 100 ohm loads are on the diff
pairs for the RGB signals. It should really drive out
a VESA signal, even without EDID. The impedance
tells it a monitor is there, and the monitor should
be "safe" with 800x600 or 1024x768 on it.

Think on this MB VGA warning simply refers to the monitor output. The MB
doesn't have a VGA output - only HDMI and Display Port (something I know
even less about) ;-)

The KVM unit is an expensive ATN Masterview DVI/PS2.

The output on the Acorn ViewFinder add on card DVI only. Dunno if the ASUS
card on the old system did VGA.

The leads to the KVM have two groups of 9 pins with only a single (large)
spade to the side where you sometimes see a further 4 pins

--
*When it rains, why don't sheep shrink? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

So in BIOS/UEFI have you set
Initial Display Output = IGFX

At the moment it's set to auto.

Worth forcing its hand.

They are just cables. Some seem to have all the DVI pins, some only some
of them.

None work via the KVM switch. Which worked just fine on the DVI output of
the original graphics card - hence wanting to use it now.

What type of DVI output is on the old card? Do the cables you're using
have a horizontal or vertical "blade" on the plug?

https://www.kitchentablecomputers.com/Images/components/dvi-connectors.jpg

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

So in BIOS/UEFI have you set
Initial Display Output = IGFX

At the moment it's set to auto.

Worth forcing its hand.

Just tried it. No difference.

They are just cables. Some seem to have all the DVI pins, some only
some of them.

None work via the KVM switch. Which worked just fine on the DVI output
of the original graphics card - hence wanting to use it now.

What type of DVI output is on the old card? Do the cables you're using
have a horizontal or vertical "blade" on the plug?

https://www.kitchentablecomputers.com/Images/components/dvi-connectors.jpg

The female on the card appears to be fully populated. It's a right angle
type so you can easily see all the output leads going to the PCB. But more
difficult to know if they are all actually connected to anything. Like all
such things, they likely do different versions sharing the same PCB.

The large spade pin in the lead is orientated to match to the long side of
the connector body. All the DVI leads I have are the same in that way. The
socket on the card does have a cross for that pin, but the other part of
the cross much too thin to take that spade.

--
*Windows will never cease *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

The large spade pin in the lead is orientated to match to the long side of
the connector body. All the DVI leads I have are the same in that way.

OK, so not using the analogue connection then (the 4 pins around the
cross are R/G/B and one of the syncs when used that way, with the spade
oriented the other way on the plug).

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Paul wrote:
I don't know why you're getting a VGA warning when
it can't detect a monitor. The Intel graphics, like
any other video card, should be able to do impedance
sensing and know some 100 ohm loads are on the diff
pairs for the RGB signals. It should really drive out
a VESA signal, even without EDID. The impedance
tells it a monitor is there, and the monitor should
be "safe" with 800x600 or 1024x768 on it.

Think on this MB VGA warning simply refers to the monitor output. The MB
doesn't have a VGA output - only HDMI and Display Port (something I know
even less about) ;-)

The KVM unit is an expensive ATN Masterview DVI/PS2.

The output on the Acorn ViewFinder add on card DVI only. Dunno if the ASUS
card on the old system did VGA.

The leads to the KVM have two groups of 9 pins with only a single (large)
spade to the side where you sometimes see a further 4 pins


Yours is probably the DVI-D Single Link, the middle one
in the diagram here. The single spade would be a ground.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digita...ctor_Types.svg

And looking at Aten documentation, they keep mentioning
analog, yet the specs only give information on the
DVI digital portion. Having the holes for analog connections
in the connector, isn't exactly "compatibility" and the
product should just say it's totally digital.

A good KVM, keeps the computer signal terminated, so that
the computer doesn't automatically switch away the output
from that port.

The Aten also mentions copying the EDID from the monitor end,
so that every port on the computer side, can see its own EDID
without conflict.

If I had to debug this setup, I'd be connecting the monitor
directly to the new computer, to establish baseline behavior.

There have been monitors which don't "smack" of compatibility.
It was perhaps a few Samsung HDMI ports, where there was
some disagreement about something. None of the threads
I've seen on this, established a root cause. It wasn't HDCP necessarily,
because an HDCP failure could just deliver colored snow (crypto)
if it wanted.

Paul

On 16/07/2020 00:43, Paul wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â* Paul wrote:
I don't know why you're getting a VGA warning when
it can't detect a monitor. The Intel graphics, like
any other video card, should be able to do impedance
sensing and know some 100 ohm loads are on the diff
pairs for the RGB signals. It should really drive out
a VESA signal, even without EDID. The impedance
tells it a monitor is there, and the monitor should
be "safe" with 800x600 or 1024x768 on it.

Think on this MB VGA warning simply refers to the monitor output. The MB
doesn't have a VGA output - only HDMI and Display Port (something I know
even less about) ;-)
The KVM unit is an expensive ATN Masterview DVI/PS2.

The output on the Acorn ViewFinder add on card DVI only. Dunno if the
ASUS
card on the old system did VGA.

The leads to the KVM have two groups of 9 pins with only a single (large)
spade to the side where you sometimes see a further 4 pins


Yours is probably the DVI-D Single Link, the middle one
in the diagram here. The single spade would be a ground.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digita...ctor_Types.svg


And looking at Aten documentation, they keep mentioning
analog, yet the specs only give information on the
DVI digital portion. Having the holes for analog connections
in the connector, isn't exactly "compatibility" and the
product should just say it's totally digital.

A good KVM, keeps the computer signal terminated, so that
the computer doesn't automatically switch away the output
from that port.

The Aten also mentions copying the EDID from the monitor end,
so that every port on the computer side, can see its own EDID
without conflict.

If I had to debug this setup, I'd be connecting the monitor
directly to the new computer, to establish baseline behavior.

Since the MB has on board graphics and an HDMI port, I would
connect it directly to an HDMI monitor, or failing that that
just use the TV as an initial setup monitor !

There have been monitors which don't "smack" of compatibility.
It was perhaps a few Samsung HDMI ports, where there was
some disagreement about something. None of the threads
I've seen on this, established a root cause. It wasn't HDCP necessarily,
because an HDCP failure could just deliver colored snow (crypto)
if it wanted.

Â*Â* Paul

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

The large spade pin in the lead is orientated to match to the long side of
the connector body. All the DVI leads I have are the same in that way.

OK, so not using the analogue connection then (the 4 pins around the
cross are R/G/B and one of the syncs when used that way, with the spade
oriented the other way on the plug).

Yup. But this computer only has digital on the DVI anyway, and that works
via the KVM switch.

Contacted the MB supplier, and they suggest I need an active HDMI to DVI
converter.

--
*If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Paul wrote:
If I had to debug this setup, I'd be connecting the monitor
directly to the new computer, to establish baseline behavior.

It gets more curious. Was loath to connect direct to the DVI only monitor
which is on a wall bracket, and not having a long enough HDMI to DVI cable.

But have now tried it, by removing the monitor from its mounting. And it
worked normally - just like the other HDMI monitor.

So powered everything down and reinstated the KVM switch, and used the
same cable from the computer to KVM. It now started up and showed the Bios
banner - but then a blank screen. Did a reset and back to the bleep bleep
bleep. Back to the HDMI monitor, and works fine.

I'm going to look for that angle grinder...

--
*Why does the sun lighten our hair, but darken our skin?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman wrote:

by removing the monitor from its mounting. And it
worked normally - just like the other HDMI monitor.

So powered everything down and reinstated the KVM switch, and used the
same cable from the computer to KVM. It now started up and showed the Bios
banner - but then a blank screen.

But is the O/S expecting to find the old DVI graphics card? I'd wire it
back direct M/B to screen, then boot into the O/S and remove the Nvidia
driver for the old card, back to the bog standard Microsoft Basic
Display Adapter, then let it install Intel HD630 or whatever drivers

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

by removing the monitor from its mounting. And it
worked normally - just like the other HDMI monitor.

So powered everything down and reinstated the KVM switch, and used the
same cable from the computer to KVM. It now started up and showed the Bios
banner - but then a blank screen.

But is the O/S expecting to find the old DVI graphics card?

No. It's a new MB with a new Win10 pro installation. The old DVI card
gives the same bleep bleep bleep and failing to boot. So not possible to
install the driver for it.


I'd wire it
back direct M/B to screen, then boot into the O/S and remove the Nvidia
driver for the old card, back to the bog standard Microsoft Basic
Display Adapter, then let it install Intel HD630 or whatever drivers

That's how it always has been on this new MB. The only driver in Win 10
device manager for display adaptor is the Intel UHD Graphics 630.

--
*We never really grow*up, we only learn how to act in public.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/07/2020 00:43, Paul wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â* Paul wrote:
I don't know why you're getting a VGA warning when
it can't detect a monitor. The Intel graphics, like
any other video card, should be able to do impedance
sensing and know some 100 ohm loads are on the diff
pairs for the RGB signals. It should really drive out
a VESA signal, even without EDID. The impedance
tells it a monitor is there, and the monitor should
be "safe" with 800x600 or 1024x768 on it.

Think on this MB VGA warning simply refers to the monitor output. The MB
doesn't have a VGA output - only HDMI and Display Port (something I know
even less about) ;-)
The KVM unit is an expensive ATN Masterview DVI/PS2.

The output on the Acorn ViewFinder add on card DVI only. Dunno if the
ASUS
card on the old system did VGA.

The leads to the KVM have two groups of 9 pins with only a single (large)
spade to the side where you sometimes see a further 4 pins


Yours is probably the DVI-D Single Link, the middle one
in the diagram here. The single spade would be a ground.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digita...ctor_Types.svg

If its the ATEN CS1762 (can you confirm Dave?)

https://assets.aten.com/product/manu...764_080915.pdf

Then it suggests it does DVI-I, so both digital and analogue. (the max
DVI resolution would also suggest this)

(my CS1642 on the other hand is digital only, and specified "dual link"
in all the descriptions, and also supports higher DVI resolutions)



--
Cheers,

John.

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