I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the wires.
Thinking no return path.

On 16/06/2020 18:02, John wrote:
I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the wires.
Thinking no return path.

Ah the silent death......

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

In article ,
John wrote:
I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the
wires. Thinking no return path.

no "go" path either.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 16/06/20 18:02, John wrote:
I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

Not that I remember, but then I don't remember them /not/ having one
either. That was in London in the 50s and early 60s.

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the wires.
Thinking no return path.

The question does not apply. Trolleybuses were connected to twin
parallel wires (550V DC). There was no return to earth as there was/is
on trams, with one connection through the metal wheels. Trolleybuses had
normal rubber tyres.

--

Jeff

On 16/06/2020 18:12, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 16/06/2020 18:02, John wrote:
I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the
wires.
Thinking no return path.

Ah the silent death......

rubber tyres no earth ...

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 16/06/20 18:02, John wrote:
I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

Not that I remember, but then I don't remember them /not/ having one
either. That was in London in the 50s and early 60s.

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the
wires.
Thinking no return path.

The question does not apply. Trolleybuses were connected to twin parallel
wires (550V DC). There was no return to earth as there was/is on trams,
with one connection through the metal wheels. Trolleybuses had normal
rubber tyres.

What was the convention with trolley buses? Were the two wires at + and -
some voltage wrt earth, or was one wire earthed and the other at a larger
voltage.

The greatest danger with either a tram or a trolley bus was that you lost
regenerative braking and so only had mechanical braking which may fade on a
long descent. When he was little in the early 1900s, my grandpa (and my
great grandma) witnessed a tram crash in Dewsbury when a tram got out of
control on a long hill, and crashed into a hotel in the market place, having
eventually run off the end of the rails. When we interviewed my grandpa in
the 1970s, he said that the repairs to the damage were still visible, but
the building has since been demolished and replaced with a modern building.
He described seeing "a ball of black rags" - the conductress jumping off the
top deck to save herself.

On 16/06/2020 18:45, Jeff Layman wrote:
The question does not apply. Trolleybuses were connected to twin
parallel wires (550V DC). There was no return to earth as there was/is
on trams, with one connection through the metal wheels. Trolleybuses had
normal rubber tyres.

I visited Vancouver in the late 90s & saw the poles come off a trolley
bus at a junction. The driver got out, got a big stick from underneath &
just hooked them back on. Seemed a regular occurence.

On 16/06/20 19:36, NY wrote:
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 16/06/20 18:02, John wrote:
I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

Not that I remember, but then I don't remember them /not/ having one
either. That was in London in the 50s and early 60s.

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the
wires.
Thinking no return path.

The question does not apply. Trolleybuses were connected to twin parallel
wires (550V DC). There was no return to earth as there was/is on trams,
with one connection through the metal wheels. Trolleybuses had normal
rubber tyres.

What was the convention with trolley buses? Were the two wires at + and -
some voltage wrt earth, or was one wire earthed and the other at a larger
voltage.

I don't know for sure, but I think both were floating above earth.
That's because both were insulated from the support. If one was earthed,
there wouldn't have been any need for an insulator on that wire.

The greatest danger with either a tram or a trolley bus was that you lost
regenerative braking and so only had mechanical braking which may fade on a
long descent. When he was little in the early 1900s, my grandpa (and my
great grandma) witnessed a tram crash in Dewsbury when a tram got out of
control on a long hill, and crashed into a hotel in the market place, having
eventually run off the end of the rails. When we interviewed my grandpa in
the 1970s, he said that the repairs to the damage were still visible, but
the building has since been demolished and replaced with a modern building.
He described seeing "a ball of black rags" - the conductress jumping off the
top deck to save herself.

Are there any reports of trolleybuses whose brakes failed and they ran
away downhill?

--

Jeff

CD wrote:
On 16/06/2020 18:45, Jeff Layman wrote:
The question does not apply. Trolleybuses were connected to twin
parallel wires (550V DC). There was no return to earth as there was/is
on trams, with one connection through the metal wheels. Trolleybuses
had normal rubber tyres.

I visited Vancouver in the late 90s & saw the poles come off a trolley
bus at a junction. The driver got out, got a big stick from underneath &
just hooked them back on. Seemed a regular occurence.

Our system used ropes on the back, ropes that retracted
into a winder to take up the slack. There was a rope per
pole, and the driver would put the overhead poles back,
one at a time using the rope. The electric trolleys
replaced electric trams, where the trams used a similar
pole+rope arrangement (but the two pickups were not compatible
and the overhead wiring had to be completely redone).

I can't find any information on the voltage of the system.
There was an electrocution event caused by that system,
but it's quite possible the article got the voltage wrong.
A crane operator snagged a boom in the wiring overhead.
He was safe at first, until he tried to step down from
his cab for a look. Killed on the spot (because he still
had his hand on the door of the cab when he stepped down).

Paul

I dont know about runaways or brake failures but do remember coming to a shuddering stop when one of the booms came off the wires. I do remember a large lever switch in the drivers cab which had to be reset following a boom coming off the wires.

Richard

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 20:38:35 +0100, CD wrote:

On 16/06/2020 18:45, Jeff Layman wrote:
The question does not apply. Trolleybuses were connected to twin
parallel wires (550V DC). There was no return to earth as there was/is
on trams, with one connection through the metal wheels. Trolleybuses
had normal rubber tyres.

I visited Vancouver in the late 90s & saw the poles come off a trolley
bus at a junction. The driver got out, got a big stick from underneath &
just hooked them back on. Seemed a regular occurence.

When I was a child, I was often taken out to the Lyons Corner House in
the Old Steine in Brighton. The trolley buses used to stop right outside.
I always wanted to go to the fairly deserted upstairs, because you could
see the top of the buses. Being the centre of Brighton, I was sometimes
lucky enough to see them pull the big bamboo pole from under the bus, and
change to a different set of wires.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:37:18 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

On 16 Jun 2020 at 18:02:57 BST, John wrote:

I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the
wires.
Thinking no return path.

Always seemed a bad idea, to me, that they scrapped them. Electric buses
with no range limitation. IIRC, they had an onboard battery, which would
certainly have been enough to get one trolly past another, if the one in
front had broken down. Just lower and park the poles, drive past, and
re-connect them. Something trams (which seem to be everyone's favourite
for some reason) can't do.

The main reason they went, I think, was the heavy cost of infrastructure
for new routes. How trams justify the outlay I don't know.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

The main reason they went, I think, was the heavy cost of infrastructure
for new routes. How trams justify the outlay I don't know.

Yes, during the house building boom of the sixties it was cheaper and quicker to provide diesel buses to all the outlying housing estates. The main road by our estate had trolley buses but a gas leak one day meant they had to run diesel buses and that was the last time we saw a trolley bus on that route.

Richard

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 20:38:35 +0100, CD wrote:

On 16/06/2020 18:45, Jeff Layman wrote:
The question does not apply. Trolleybuses were connected to twin
parallel wires (550V DC). There was no return to earth as there was/is
on trams, with one connection through the metal wheels. Trolleybuses had
normal rubber tyres.

I visited Vancouver in the late 90s & saw the poles come off a trolley
bus at a junction. The driver got out, got a big stick from underneath &
just hooked them back on. Seemed a regular occurence.

They still have them in Vancouver. They are modern and up to date and
part of the regular transport infrastructure. We used them quite a lot
when we were there last year. Google-image search Vancouver trams for
lots of nice pictures!

Nick

On 16/06/2020 23:04, Bob Eager wrote:
How trams justify the outlay I don't know.
People are just in love with trains. A friend in the public transport
business referred to Lord Adonis as ' a small child with a very big
train set'

COVID-19 will change the face of public transport and mark the end of a
lot of it. I think the better way to achieve 'social transport' is to
subsidise driverless taxis once they work properly. That solves the 'I
am poor in a village and need to go shopping/go to hospital' moan. As
far as commuting goes, I think its far better to let the electrons and
photons do that, and stay at home.



After my last 999 call and ambulance I asked them to call me a taxi at
the hospital when I was discharged, They called a riving ambulance with
two drivers to run me home.

Public transport was built at a time when only very heavy dangerous
expensive steam locomotives existed. Harking back to the days of stage
coaches when only the very rich could afford private transport. It
really has very little place in a post COVID world. All teh arguments
about 'one bus full of passengers takes up less space than three cars'
is nonsense when the bus doesn't have more than 4 passengers.

If you really want to get to Birmingham in a hurry take a plane from
docklands air[port, or drive,

Trains and trams are just another bit of LeftyBollox thinking.
Centralised provisions of socialised services in transport.

Juts give people the equivalent of an oyster card that they can use to
pay electric driverless taxis for.



--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:02:57 +0000, John wrote:

I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the
wires.
Thinking no return path.

Excellent form of transport, clean, smooth, fast and quiet, although
weighing 12 tons they could out accelerate the average car. I had trouble
hanging on to the platform handle whilst on my bike when the bus was
starting off from a bus stop, because it built up speed so quickly and I
would get into a speed wobble, with only one hand on the handlebars.

On 17/06/2020 04:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


After my last 999 call and ambulance I asked them to call me a taxi at
the hospital when I was discharged, They called a riving ambulance with
two drivers to run me home.

What did you mean to type there, out of interest?



Public transport was built at a time when only very heavy dangerous
expensive steam locomotives existed. Harking back to the days of stage
coaches when only the very rich could afford private transport. It
really has very little place in a post COVID world. All teh arguments
about 'one bus full of passengers takes up less space than three cars'
is nonsense when the bus doesn't have more than 4 passengers.

If you really want to get to Birmingham in a hurry take a plane from
docklands air[port, or drive,

A plane journey, London - Birmingham, takes around 15 minutes in the air
and 3+ hours on the ground. Docklands Airport is very hard to get to,
unless you happen to live in that part of London. Connections to the
airport are poor.

The train journey time is much longer, but the time spent before and
after the journey is much less.

On 17/06/2020 09:50, GB wrote:
On 17/06/2020 04:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


After my last 999 call and ambulance I asked them to call me a taxi at
the hospital when I was discharged, They called a riving ambulance
with two drivers to run me home.

What did you mean to type there, out of interest?

Roving...itinerant, of no fixed abode. There is an ambulance that
circulates around the whole of east Anglia ferrying passengers from
homes to hospitals. They came from I think Colchester, picked me up at
Bury st Edmunds and dropped me home before charging off to Addenbrookes
in Cambridge.



Public transport was built at a time when only very heavy dangerous
expensive steam locomotives existed. Harking back to the days of stage
coaches when only the very rich could afford private transport. It
really has very little place in a post COVID world. All teh arguments
about 'one bus full of passengers takes up less space than three cars'
is nonsense when the bus doesn't have more than 4 passengers.

If you really want to get to Birmingham in a hurry take a plane from
docklands air[port, or drive,

A plane journey, London - Birmingham, takes around 15 minutes in the air
and 3+ hours on the ground. Docklands Airport is very hard to get to,
unless you happen to live in that part of London. Connections to the
airport are poor.

Now look at the time it takes for anyone to get to a central London
station...I frew up[ with ****ing trains. At least three hours waiting
on platforms waiting for connections. And taxis at both ends


The train journey time is much longer, but the time spent before and
after the journey is much less.

Lies.

I th9nk I mentioned last year that I had attended a family gathering in
Wets Germany. People in the UK came by train and hired car, by plane
and hired car and I alone drove overnight and caught a ferry.

Only the fact that the train persons actually lived in London made the
train in anyway comparable: My journey was almost identical to the
fliers, and the train was slightly slower.
Any form of transport that requires you to get to a station or airport
slows you down. Yes we had ferry crossings BUT ferries are very much
drive on drive off if pre booked.

When I was a lad doing 150 miles to visit the grandparents took 8 hours
by train and taxi, when we got a car with my mother driving it came down
to 5, and when the motorways arrived and I was driving, I could do it in
2 1/2.


--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."

Billy Connolly

On 16/06/2020 23:04, Bob Eager wrote:


The main reason they went, I think, was the heavy cost of infrastructure
for new routes. How trams justify the outlay I don't know.



Trams and light railways make sense where the conditions are right;
Docklands, Sheffield, etc. What I think "did" for them in many places
was partly that diesel buses are cheap and flexible, plus the increasing
availability of private transport (first motorcycles, then cars).

I'm sure TNP is right that COVID-19 is going to give the whole work and
transport systems a "kick". We've got the growth of Uber (easily made
safer with a black cab type partition and better cabin materials) and
eventually self-driving. I can see there being more dedicated taxi and
bike lanes, and technology could make dual use lanes safer: mandatory
transponder on bikes, mandatory detector on the powered vehicle.

On 17/06/2020 10:13, newshound wrote:
On 16/06/2020 23:04, Bob Eager wrote:


The main reason they went, I think, was the heavy cost of infrastructure
for new routes. How trams justify the outlay I don't know.



Trams and light railways make sense where the conditions are right;
Docklands, Sheffield, etc. What I think "did" for them in many places
was partly that diesel buses are cheap and flexible, plus the increasing
availability of private transport (first motorcycles, then cars).

It is a similar story with the arrival of the passenger jet - especially
the Boeing 707 as opposed to the DH comet. They burnt more fuel to get a
passenger to his destination, but the journey times were shorter and
most importantly, the ease and lack of need for engine overhauls every
thousand hours or so, meant they spent more time in the air- for the
capital outlay maintenance cost were way down and passengers per year
way up, and when you are borrowing to buy them at a fixed interest rate,
the profits are far higher (or the fares lower).
The greatest cost of a railway or tramway is the track. At least buses
share the road with other traffic.



I'm sure TNP is right that COVID-19 is going to give the whole work and
transport systems a "kick". We've got the growth of Uber (easily made
safer with a black cab type partition and better cabin materials) and
eventually self-driving. I can see there being more dedicated taxi and
bike lanes, and technology could make dual use lanes safer: mandatory
transponder on bikes, mandatory detector on the powered vehicle.

I am also wondering if it will herald the death of the city.. Cities
grew up as market towns, then as ports and communications hubs and
finally as manufacturing places where vast quantities of workers could
be housed. Today they are just dormitories. And extremely disease ridden
ones.


With the internet giving high speed connectivity, and the postal and
courier services acting as shopping trolleys, we don't need no stinkin'
high streets.

They were already destroyed by the big brands into 'me-too malls'

Shopping is now a social activity - a stroll along the Mall in a
Burlington Bertie sort of way.


--
€œIt is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.€�

ۥ Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

In article ,
GB wrote:
On 17/06/2020 04:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


After my last 999 call and ambulance I asked them to call me a taxi at
the hospital when I was discharged, They called a riving ambulance with
two drivers to run me home.

What did you mean to type there, out of interest?



Public transport was built at a time when only very heavy dangerous
expensive steam locomotives existed. Harking back to the days of stage
coaches when only the very rich could afford private transport. It
really has very little place in a post COVID world. All teh arguments
about 'one bus full of passengers takes up less space than three cars'
is nonsense when the bus doesn't have more than 4 passengers.

If you really want to get to Birmingham in a hurry take a plane from
docklands air[port, or drive,

A plane journey, London - Birmingham, takes around 15 minutes in the air
and 3+ hours on the ground. Docklands Airport is very hard to get to,
unless you happen to live in that part of London. Connections to the
airport are poor.

DLR goes right to the airport

The train journey time is much longer, but the time spent before and
after the journey is much less.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 17/06/2020 10:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/06/2020 09:50, GB wrote:
On 17/06/2020 04:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


After my last 999 call and ambulance I asked them to call me a taxi
at the hospital when I was discharged, They called a riving ambulance
with two drivers to run me home.

What did you mean to type there, out of interest?

Roving...itinerant, of no fixed abode. There is an ambulance that
circulates around the whole of east Anglia ferrying passengers from
homes to hospitals. They came from I think Colchester, picked me up at
Bury st Edmunds and dropped me home before charging off to Addenbrookes
in Cambridge.


I'm paying for that! You must have been pretty ill at the time, but if
you could afford a taxi I'm not sure why you weren't put in one?






Public transport was built at a time when only very heavy dangerous
expensive steam locomotives existed. Harking back to the days of
stage coaches when only the very rich could afford private transport.
It really has very little place in a post COVID world. All teh
arguments about 'one bus full of passengers takes up less space than
three cars' is nonsense when the bus doesn't have more than 4
passengers.

If you really want to get to Birmingham in a hurry take a plane from
docklands air[port, or drive,

A plane journey, London - Birmingham, takes around 15 minutes in the
air and 3+ hours on the ground. Docklands Airport is very hard to get
to, unless you happen to live in that part of London. Connections to
the airport are poor.

Now look at the time it takes for anyone to get to a central London
station...I frew up[ with ****ing trains. At least three hours waiting
on platforms waiting for connections. And taxis at both ends

It takes me under 20 minutes to walk to the local underground station.
20 minutes to Euston. I would probably aim to arrive 20 minutes before
the train leaves. So, that's an hour.

There's no 3 hours waiting on platforms. It's a direct train from Euston
to Brum, see.

I'm not sure why I'd putatively go to Birmingham, but if the final
destination is fairly central, I'd be there 30 minutes after I get off
the train.

I'd rather do that than drive, although the driving time might be
comparable, but that's just a personal preference as I don't like
driving. I'm looking forward to getting a car that can do most of the
driving for me, but that day has not arrived, unfortunately.

Obviously, if you live near Bury St Edmunds, your journey is entirely
different. I'm quite surprised that it makes sense for you to go to
London City to get a plane to Birmingham, though.





The train journey time is much longer, but the time spent before and
after the journey is much less.

Lies.

I think you mean that you disagree. It's hard to think of a reason why I
would be dishonest about this.


I th9nk I mentioned last year that I had attended a family gathering in
Wets Germany. People in the UKÂ* came by train and hired car, by plane
and hired car and I alone drove overnight and caught a ferry.


Were you able to share the driving?



Only the fact that the train persons actually lived in London made the
train in anyway comparable: My journey was almost identical to the
fliers, and the train was slightly slower.
Any form of transport that requires you to get to a station or airport
slows you down. Yes we had ferry crossings BUT ferries are very much
drive on drive off if pre booked.

When I was a lad doing 150 miles to visit the grandparents took 8 hours
by train and taxi, when we got a car with my mother driving it came down
to 5, and when the motorways arrived and I was driving, I could do it in
2 1/2.

On 17/06/2020 11:10, charles wrote:

A plane journey, London - Birmingham, takes around 15 minutes in the air
and 3+ hours on the ground. Docklands Airport is very hard to get to,
unless you happen to live in that part of London. Connections to the
airport are poor.

DLR goes right to the airport

That's true.

I've been all the way to Cyprus on the DLR. ;-)

On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:50:41 +0100, GB wrote:

On 17/06/2020 04:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


After my last 999 call and ambulance I asked them to call me a taxi at
the hospital when I was discharged, They called a riving ambulance with
two drivers to run me home.

What did you mean to type there, out of interest?

It's an ambulance that, instead of scalpels, carries a riving knife.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 18:03:00 UTC+1, John wrote:
I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the wires.
Thinking no return path.

I lived in Huddersfield
As they had no door, heating would be pointless.
If the pole came off, it was spring loaded, it went up in the air.
They were hooked on/unhooked with a long bamboo pole.

On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 18:22:57 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
John wrote:
I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the
wires. Thinking no return path.

no "go" path either.


They went like **** off a shovel. You had to watch out overtaking a parked/stopped one.

On 17/06/2020 10:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/06/2020 10:13, newshound wrote:
On 16/06/2020 23:04, Bob Eager wrote:


The main reason they went, I think, was the heavy cost of infrastructure
for new routes. How trams justify the outlay I don't know.



Trams and light railways make sense where the conditions are right;
Docklands, Sheffield, etc. What I think "did" for them in many places
was partly that diesel buses are cheap and flexible, plus the
increasing availability of private transport (first motorcycles, then
cars).

It is a similar story with the arrival of the passenger jet - especially
the Boeing 707 as opposed to the DH comet. They burnt more fuel to get a
passenger to his destination, but the journey times were shorter and
most importantly, the ease and lack of need for engine overhauls every
thousand hours or so, meant they spent more time in the air- for the
capital outlay maintenance cost were way down and passengers per year
way up, and when you are borrowing to buy them at a fixed interest rate,
the profits are far higher (or the fares lower).
The greatest cost of a railway or tramway is the track. At least buses
share the road with other traffic.



I'm sure TNP is right that COVID-19 is going to give the whole work
and transport systems a "kick". We've got the growth of Uber (easily
made safer with a black cab type partition and better cabin materials)
and eventually self-driving. I can see there being more dedicated taxi
and bike lanes, and technology could make dual use lanes safer:
mandatory transponder on bikes, mandatory detector on the powered
vehicle.

I am also wondering if it will herald the death of the city.. Cities
grew up as market towns, then as ports and communications hubs and
finally as manufacturing places where vast quantities of workers could
be housed. Today they are just dormitories. And extremely disease ridden
ones.

Except that the big cities are really a collection of villages. One of
my lads lives on the edge of Hackney Marshes, so has in one direction
the canal with (in normal times) a great collection of hipster bars,
ethnic food shops and restaurants, etc, and in the other a pretty fair
expanse of countryside. Plenty of dismal spaces in and around cities, of
course. The decline in manufacturing had already killed Detroit. It's
interesting how the centres of so many northern cities had become quite
pleasant spaces in the past 20 years or so. But I agree, there are going
to be a lot of changes now.



With the internet giving high speed connectivity, and the postal and
courier services acting as shopping trolleys, we don't need no stinkin'
high streets.

Absolutely

They were already destroyed by the big brands into 'me-too malls'

Shopping is now a social activity - a stroll along the Mall in a
Burlington Bertie sort of way.

Indeed. I only tolerate a visit to my local malls because I know I can
stop for a decent coffee or, in many cases, a glass of something with
some Tapas

On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 23:04:32 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:37:18 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

On 16 Jun 2020 at 18:02:57 BST, John wrote:

I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the
wires.
Thinking no return path.

Always seemed a bad idea, to me, that they scrapped them. Electric buses
with no range limitation. IIRC, they had an onboard battery, which would
certainly have been enough to get one trolly past another, if the one in
front had broken down. Just lower and park the poles, drive past, and
re-connect them. Something trams (which seem to be everyone's

Drivel.
If a bus broke down, they just unhooked it's poles.
Following buses just drove past.

On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 23:04:32 UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:37:18 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

On 16 Jun 2020 at 18:02:57 BST, John wrote:

I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the
wires.
Thinking no return path.

Always seemed a bad idea, to me, that they scrapped them. Electric buses
with no range limitation. IIRC, they had an onboard battery, which would
certainly have been enough to get one trolly past another, if the one in
front had broken down. Just lower and park the poles, drive past, and
re-connect them. Something trams (which seem to be everyone's favourite
for some reason) can't do.

The main reason they went, I think, was the heavy cost of infrastructure
for new routes. How trams justify the outlay I don't know.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

The reason they were scrapped was that in the 60's everyone was buying their (first) car.
There was no bus timetables, there was a bus every 20 minutes.
When it was busy, there were whole gaggles of buses.

The problem was maintaining the overhead lines. Which had to be done regardless of how many buses there were.

On Wednesday, 17 June 2020 04:38:25 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/06/2020 23:04, Bob Eager wrote:

How trams justify the outlay I don't know.
People are just in love with trains. A friend in the public transport
business referred to Lord Adonis as ' a small child with a very big
train set'

COVID-19 will change the face of public transport and mark the end of a
lot of it. I think the better way to achieve 'social transport' is to
subsidise driverless taxis once they work properly. That solves the 'I
am poor in a village and need to go shopping/go to hospital' moan. As
far as commuting goes, I think its far better to let the electrons and
photons do that, and stay at home.



After my last 999 call and ambulance I asked them to call me a taxi at
the hospital when I was discharged, They called a riving ambulance with
two drivers to run me home.

Public transport was built at a time when only very heavy dangerous
expensive steam locomotives existed. Harking back to the days of stage
coaches when only the very rich could afford private transport. It
really has very little place in a post COVID world. All teh arguments
about 'one bus full of passengers takes up less space than three cars'
is nonsense when the bus doesn't have more than 4 passengers.

If you really want to get to Birmingham in a hurry take a plane from
docklands air[port, or drive,

Trains and trams are just another bit of LeftyBollox thinking.
Centralised provisions of socialised services in transport.

Juts give people the equivalent of an oyster card that they can use to
pay electric driverless taxis for.


Buses, trams etc made sense when they were the cheaper option & lots of people had no other practical transport. Today they reduce congestion when full - if the legacy of covid is that they're mostly empty then as you say they'd cease making sense, the cost would rise severalfold and they'd no longer reduce congestion.

A rethink is very much needed on transport. It's not too hard a nut to crack in new build areas, MK doesn't suffer significant gridlock. There's also a US town that has a network of golfcart lanes, and that works fairly well by moving a large number of short journeys off the roads.

But for our established towns & cities it's a major problem. There are various options but all are truly problematic. Building new towns rather than developing the old seems the sensible way forward at this point.


NT

Bob Eager wrote:

How trams justify the outlay I don't know.

Levy something else?

On 17/06/2020 11:24, GB wrote:
On 17/06/2020 10:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/06/2020 09:50, GB wrote:
On 17/06/2020 04:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


After my last 999 call and ambulance I asked them to call me a taxi
at the hospital when I was discharged, They called a riving
ambulance with two drivers to run me home.

What did you mean to type there, out of interest?

Roving...itinerant, of no fixed abode. There is an ambulance that
circulates around the whole of east Anglia ferrying passengers from
homes to hospitals. They came from I think Colchester, picked me up at
Bury st Edmunds and dropped me home before charging off to
Addenbrookes in Cambridge.


I'm paying for that! You must have been pretty ill at the time, but if
you could afford a taxi I'm not sure why you weren't put in one?


During lockdown all the (other) NHS services have been completely under
utilised.

No one else was using it and I was sort of on the way to Addenbrookes anyway





Public transport was built at a time when only very heavy dangerous
expensive steam locomotives existed. Harking back to the days of
stage coaches when only the very rich could afford private
transport. It really has very little place in a post COVID world.
All teh arguments about 'one bus full of passengers takes up less
space than three cars' is nonsense when the bus doesn't have more
than 4 passengers.

If you really want to get to Birmingham in a hurry take a plane from
docklands air[port, or drive,

A plane journey, London - Birmingham, takes around 15 minutes in the
air and 3+ hours on the ground. Docklands Airport is very hard to get
to, unless you happen to live in that part of London. Connections to
the airport are poor.

Now look at the time it takes for anyone to get to a central London
station...I frew up[ with ****ing trains. At least three hours waiting
on platforms waiting for connections. And taxis at both ends

It takes me under 20 minutes to walk to the local underground station.
20 minutes to Euston. I would probably aim to arrive 20 minutes before
the train leaves. So, that's an hour.

There's no 3 hours waiting on platforms. It's a direct train from Euston
to Brum, see.

And do you commute to Brum on a regular basis?

I'm not sure why I'd putatively go to Birmingham, but if the final
destination is fairly central, I'd be there 30 minutes after I get off
the train.

I'd rather do that than drive, although the driving time might be
comparable, but that's just a personal preference as I don't like
driving. I'm looking forward to getting a car that can do most of the
driving for me, but that day has not arrived, unfortunately.

Its coming.

Obviously, if you live near Bury St Edmunds, your journey is entirely
different. I'm quite surprised that it makes sense for you to go to
London City to get a plane to Birmingham, though.


I didn't say that it did. I was comparing London to Birmingham times.

I have to do ten miles to catch any public transport at all, apart from
a two bus a day service a mile down the hill. Or phoning a taxi







The train journey time is much longer, but the time spent before and
after the journey is much less.

Lies.

I think you mean that you disagree. It's hard to think of a reason why I
would be dishonest about this.


I th9nk I mentioned last year that I had attended a family gathering
in Wets Germany. People in the UKÂ* came by train and hired car, by
plane and hired car and I alone drove overnight and caught a ferry.


Were you able to share the driving?

No. Why would I?

More or less non stop apart from 40 winks near the German border. And
breakfast on the Ferry




--
€œIt is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.€�

ۥ Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

On 17/06/2020 13:06, Andy Burns wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

How trams justify the outlay I don't know.

Levy something else?

My transport professional friend indicated that all public transport is
really a *political* decision and cash goes to the gimmes if they can
virtue signal their way to subsidies and grants. Almost none of it is
profitable.

It's jobs for labour voters, subsidised by taxpayers. So call 'studies'
are simply biased to indicate the answer someone after money wants them
to go.

When I asked him what the biggest single improvement for least money
could be made to the railway network he replied 'get rid of all level
crossings'. Dangerous, interfere with road traffic and slow trains down
sometimes.

If all the money being spent on HS2 had been spent on improving the
track we already have..



--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 18:03:00 UTC+1, John wrote:
I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the wires.
Thinking no return path.

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/incom...KuZG-4wvPuIeRo

On 16/06/2020 18:48, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 16/06/2020 18:12, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 16/06/2020 18:02, John wrote:
I live in Derby - had Trolley Buses until 1967.

Just wondering:

1. Did they have any form of heating?

2. Were there any electrical dangers when a trolley ple came off the
wires.
Thinking no return path.

Ah the silent death......

rubber tyres no earth ...


Cardiff had them. When the pantograph slipped the conductor had
to pull out a long ?bamboo pole with a hook on the end, that was
stored under the whole length of the ground floor, and hook the
pantograph back onto the overhead wires.

On 17/06/2020 10:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/06/2020 09:50, GB wrote:
On 17/06/2020 04:38, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


After my last 999 call and ambulance I asked them to call me a taxi
at the hospital when I was discharged, They called a riving ambulance
with two drivers to run me home.

What did you mean to type there, out of interest?

Roving...itinerant, of no fixed abode. There is an ambulance that
circulates around the whole of east Anglia ferrying passengers from
homes to hospitals. They came from I think Colchester, picked me up at
Bury st Edmunds and dropped me home before charging off to Addenbrookes
in Cambridge.



Public transport was built at a time when only very heavy dangerous
expensive steam locomotives existed. Harking back to the days of
stage coaches when only the very rich could afford private transport.
It really has very little place in a post COVID world. All teh
arguments about 'one bus full of passengers takes up less space than
three cars' is nonsense when the bus doesn't have more than 4
passengers.

If you really want to get to Birmingham in a hurry take a plane from
docklands air[port, or drive,

A plane journey, London - Birmingham, takes around 15 minutes in the
air and 3+ hours on the ground. Docklands Airport is very hard to get
to, unless you happen to live in that part of London. Connections to
the airport are poor.

Now look at the time it takes for anyone to get to a central London
station...I frew up[ with ****ing trains. At least three hours waiting
on platforms waiting for connections. And taxis at both ends


The train journey time is much longer, but the time spent before and
after the journey is much less.

Lies.

I th9nk I mentioned last year that I had attended a family gathering in
Wets Germany. People in the UKÂ* came by train and hired car, by plane
and hired car and I alone drove overnight and caught a ferry.

Only the fact that the train persons actually lived in London made the
train in anyway comparable: My journey was almost identical to the
fliers, and the train was slightly slower.
Any form of transport that requires you to get to a station or airport
slows you down. Yes we had ferry crossings BUT ferries are very much
drive on drive off if pre booked.

When I was a lad doing 150 miles to visit the grandparents took 8 hours
by train and taxi, when we got a car with my mother driving it came down
to 5, and when the motorways arrived and I was driving, I could do it in
2 1/2.



You chose to live in the middle of nowhere !!.

On 17/06/2020 13:04, wrote:
MK doesn't suffer significant gridlock.

But it isn't easy to anywhere by walking because it is so
spread-out. You are forced to use a car, bike or bus.

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 17 June 2020 04:38:25 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 16/06/2020 23:04, Bob Eager wrote:

How trams justify the outlay I don't know.
People are just in love with trains. A friend in the public transport
business referred to Lord Adonis as ' a small child with a very big
train set'

COVID-19 will change the face of public transport and mark the end of a
lot of it. I think the better way to achieve 'social transport' is to
subsidise driverless taxis once they work properly. That solves the 'I
am poor in a village and need to go shopping/go to hospital' moan. As
far as commuting goes, I think its far better to let the electrons and
photons do that, and stay at home.



After my last 999 call and ambulance I asked them to call me a taxi at
the hospital when I was discharged, They called a riving ambulance with
two drivers to run me home.

Public transport was built at a time when only very heavy dangerous
expensive steam locomotives existed. Harking back to the days of stage
coaches when only the very rich could afford private transport. It
really has very little place in a post COVID world. All teh arguments
about 'one bus full of passengers takes up less space than three cars'
is nonsense when the bus doesn't have more than 4 passengers.

If you really want to get to Birmingham in a hurry take a plane from
docklands air[port, or drive,

Trains and trams are just another bit of LeftyBollox thinking.
Centralised provisions of socialised services in transport.

Juts give people the equivalent of an oyster card that they can use to
pay electric driverless taxis for.


Buses, trams etc made sense when they were the cheaper option & lots of
people had no other practical transport. Today they reduce congestion when
full - if the legacy of covid is that they're mostly empty then as you say
they'd cease making sense, the cost would rise severalfold and they'd no
longer reduce congestion.

A rethink is very much needed on transport. It's not too hard a nut to
crack in new build areas, MK doesn't suffer significant gridlock. There's
also a US town that has a network of golfcart lanes, and that works fairly
well by moving a large number of short journeys off the roads.

But for our established towns & cities it's a major problem. There are
various options but all are truly problematic. Building new towns rather
than developing the old seems the sensible way forward at this point.

Self driving cars make a lot more sense.

Combined with working from home a lot more.

On 17/06/2020 13:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 17/06/2020 13:06, Andy Burns wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:

How trams justify the outlay I don't know.

Levy something else?

My transport professional friend indicated that all public transport is
really a *political* decision and cash goes to the gimmes if they can
virtue signal their way to subsidies and grants. Almost none of it is
profitable.

It's jobs for labour voters, subsidised by taxpayers. So call 'studies'
are simply biased to indicate the answer someone after money wants them
to go.

When I asked him what the biggest single improvement for least money
could be made to the railway networkÂ* he replied 'get rid of all level
crossings'. Dangerous, interfere with road traffic and slow trains down
sometimes.

Blocking off the road, or the rail?

--
Max Demian

...


Cardiff had them. When the pantograph slipped the conductor had
to pull out a long ?bamboo pole with a hook on the end, that was
stored under the whole length of the ground floor, and hook the
pantograph back onto the overhead wires.


Pantograph?