National Grid are paying EDF to switch off half of Sizewell B. Demand
is so low due to lockdown there is too much generation on the grid
making it tricky to balance.


https://theenergyst.com/national-gri...b-deal-but-say
s-no-need-to-panic/

https://tinyurl.com/yd2owm5u

That artical says the minimum demand forecast for Sunday was 14.4 GW.
Doesn't look like it got that low on Gridwatch.

National Grid are also looking at Demand Turn Up or variations where
they pay for generators to reduce their export to the grid or consume
more power.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 12 May 2020 00:59:27 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

National Grid are paying EDF to switch off half of Sizewell B. Demand is
so low due to lockdown there is too much generation on the grid making
it tricky to balance.


https://theenergyst.com/national-gri...b-deal-but-say
s-no-need-to-panic/

https://tinyurl.com/yd2owm5u

That artical says the minimum demand forecast for Sunday was 14.4 GW.
Doesn't look like it got that low on Gridwatch.

National Grid are also looking at Demand Turn Up or variations where
they pay for generators to reduce their export to the grid or consume
more power.


This lockdown has thrown up some very interesting statistics.

This is where we could do with some way to store electricity, quite
obviously. Lets flood London and use the Thames barrier as a tidal
generator.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"John" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 12 May 2020 00:59:27 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

National Grid are paying EDF to switch off half of Sizewell B. Demand is
so low due to lockdown there is too much generation on the grid making
it tricky to balance.


https://theenergyst.com/national-gri...b-deal-but-say
s-no-need-to-panic/

https://tinyurl.com/yd2owm5u

That artical says the minimum demand forecast for Sunday was 14.4 GW.
Doesn't look like it got that low on Gridwatch.

National Grid are also looking at Demand Turn Up or variations where
they pay for generators to reduce their export to the grid or consume
more power.


This lockdown has thrown up some very interesting statistics.

Brian Gaff wrote:

This is where we could do with some way to store electricity

Given the lack of extra suitable lakes for hydro storage, someone is now
trialling dangling concrete blocks down holes ...

On 12/05/2020 08:04, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

This is where we could do with some way to store electricity

Given the lack of extra suitable lakes for hydro storage, someone is now
trialling dangling concrete blocks down holes ...

There is BIG hole in Fulham where the TBM's being used to bore the
London supersewer were lowered down.

Deep hole too, through the clay layer and down to the hard stuff.

On 12/05/2020 13:33, Andrew wrote:
On 12/05/2020 08:04, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

This is where we could do with some way to store electricity

Given the lack of extra suitable lakes for hydro storage, someone is
now trialling dangling concrete blocks down holes ...

There is BIG hole in Fulham where the TBM's being used to bore the
London supersewer were lowered down.

Deep hole too, through the clay layer and down to the hard stuff.

So maybe 150m?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Clay

Let's say a 20 metre cube of lead as the "weight", mass of around
100,000 tonnes. Stored energy 50 MWh.

In article , Andy Burns
writes
Brian Gaff wrote:

This is where we could do with some way to store electricity

Given the lack of extra suitable lakes for hydro storage, someone is
now trialling dangling concrete blocks down holes ...
Mafia have already done it - with somebody's feet in the blocks.
--
bert

On 12/05/2020 08:42, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2020 08:04:53 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Brian Gaff wrote:

This is where we could do with some way to store electricity

Given the lack of extra suitable lakes for hydro storage, someone is now
trialling dangling concrete blocks down holes ...

https://tinyurl.com/y2cq45vl Of course, you'd have keep the shafts
pumped for inspection etc. which would use some of the stored energy.
It's also been proposed to use those holes for pumped storage. E.G.
https://tinyurl.com/yasnnc8o

See also
https://blogs.platts.com/2018/02/08/...d-mine-shafts/

I suggest converting the Snowdon Mountain Railway to electricity with
a generate/discharge capability, and replacing the diddy little
carriage with 10,000 tons of concrete on flat-cars. The diddy little
carriage could tag along at the back.

But do the sums. For 1000 tonnes and 1000m shaft (deeper than
Killingley) you get about 30 MWh.

The Snowdon drop is about 1000m too. But you couldn't put 10,000 tons on
flatbeds and tow them, you would have to have motor/generators on a
significant proportion of the wheels. So that would give you 300 MWh.

Dinorwic is 9000 MWh.

Chris Hogg wrote:

newshound wrote:

Chris Hogg wrote:

But do the sums. For 1000 tonnes and 1000m shaft (deeper than
Killingley) you get about 30 MWh.

The Snowdon drop is about 1000m too. But you couldn't put 10,000 tons on
flatbeds and tow them, you would have to have motor/generators on a
significant proportion of the wheels. So that would give you 300 MWh.

Dinorwic is 9000 MWh.

Quite. It was a tongue in cheek suggestion, very 'green', and useless.

Gravitricity are trialling with 250kW (note lack of 'h' but their blurb
mentions 15 minute runtime, so maybe 62kWh) aren't their crowd-funders
convinced that gravity works?

Brian Gaff (Sofa) has brought this to us :
This is where we could do with some way to store electricity, quite
obviously. Lets flood London and use the Thames barrier as a tidal generator.

That idea has considerable merit.

On 12/05/2020 08:46, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Gaff (Sofa) has brought this to us :
This is where we could do with some way to store electricity, quite
obviously. Lets flood London and use the Thames barrier as a tidal
generator.

That idea has considerable merit.

Say 1000 km^2, 10 metres total height, I make that 15 GWh gross, so 1.5
times Dinorwic.

newshound brought next idea :
Say 1000 km^2, 10 metres total height, I make that 15 GWh gross, so 1.5 times
Dinorwic.

A decent exchange rate.

On 12/05/2020 08:46, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Gaff (Sofa) has brought this to us :
This is where we could do with some way to store electricity, quite
obviously. Lets flood London and use the Thames barrier as a tidal
generator.

That idea has considerable merit.

That would make social distancing on the deep tube lines (that would
be flooded) very difficult (or easy).

On 12/05/2020 06:14, John wrote:
On Tue, 12 May 2020 00:59:27 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

National Grid are paying EDF to switch off half of Sizewell B. Demand is
so low due to lockdown there is too much generation on the grid making
it tricky to balance.


https://theenergyst.com/national-gri...b-deal-but-say
s-no-need-to-panic/

https://tinyurl.com/yd2owm5u

That artical says the minimum demand forecast for Sunday was 14.4 GW.
Doesn't look like it got that low on Gridwatch.

National Grid are also looking at Demand Turn Up or variations where
they pay for generators to reduce their export to the grid or consume
more power.


This lockdown has thrown up some very interesting statistics.


Name them.

--

Don't get that, surely people at home all the time still use power, but if
manufacturing is not using their share where is everything we need coming
from if not here?
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
National Grid are paying EDF to switch off half of Sizewell B. Demand
is so low due to lockdown there is too much generation on the grid
making it tricky to balance.


https://theenergyst.com/national-gri...b-deal-but-say
s-no-need-to-panic/

https://tinyurl.com/yd2owm5u

That artical says the minimum demand forecast for Sunday was 14.4 GW.
Doesn't look like it got that low on Gridwatch.

National Grid are also looking at Demand Turn Up or variations where
they pay for generators to reduce their export to the grid or consume
more power.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote

Don't get that, surely people at home all the time still
use power, but if manufacturing is not using their share
where is everything we need coming from if not here?

China, silly.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
National Grid are paying EDF to switch off half of Sizewell B. Demand
is so low due to lockdown there is too much generation on the grid
making it tricky to balance.


https://theenergyst.com/national-gri...b-deal-but-say
s-no-need-to-panic/

https://tinyurl.com/yd2owm5u

That artical says the minimum demand forecast for Sunday was 14.4 GW.
Doesn't look like it got that low on Gridwatch.

National Grid are also looking at Demand Turn Up or variations where
they pay for generators to reduce their export to the grid or consume
more power.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 12 May 2020 17:14:41 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rot Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total ******** most of it."
MID:

On 12/05/2020 00:59, Dave Liquorice wrote:
National Grid are paying EDF to switch off half of Sizewell B. Demand
is so low due to lockdown there is too much generation on the grid
making it tricky to balance.


https://theenergyst.com/national-gri...b-deal-but-say
s-no-need-to-panic/

https://tinyurl.com/yd2owm5u

That artical says the minimum demand forecast for Sunday was 14.4 GW.
Doesn't look like it got that low on Gridwatch.

National Grid are also looking at Demand Turn Up or variations where
they pay for generators to reduce their export to the grid or consume
more power.



What has this to do with DIY.

--

Dave Liquorice wrote:

National Grid are also looking at Demand Turn Up or variations where
they pay for generators to reduce their export to the grid or consume
more power.

Gridwatch shows 'notches' of lowered demand for several days recently,
ass though they've used load-shedding, i.e. the opposite of what that says?

On 12/05/2020 11:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:

National Grid are also looking at Demand Turn Up or variations where
they pay for generators to reduce their export to the grid or consume
more power.

Gridwatch shows 'notches' of lowered demand for several days recently,
ass though they've used load-shedding, i.e. the opposite of what that says?

No those are data errors I am afraid.

When the solar energy estimates cant be scraped from Sheffield


--
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your
oppressors."
- George Orwell

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Gridwatch shows 'notches' of lowered demand for several days recently,

No those are data errors I am afraid.
When the solar energy estimates cant be scraped from Sheffield

Ah, I did wonder about that, "obvious errors" in the past have been to zero

On 12/05/2020 11:21, Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Gridwatch shows 'notches' of lowered demand for several days recently,

No those are data errors I am afraid.
When the solar energy estimates cant be scraped from Sheffield

Ah, I did wonder about that, "obvious errors" in the past have been to zero
the solar does drop to zero. but since its added to demand to make the
graphs it shoes there as a notch

--
€œIt is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.€�

Thomas Sowell

On 12/05/2020 11:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/05/2020 11:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:

National Grid are also looking at Demand Turn Up or variations where
they pay for generators to reduce their export to the grid or consume
more power.

Gridwatch shows 'notches' of lowered demand for several days recently,
ass though they've used load-shedding, i.e. the opposite of what that
says?

No those are data errors I am afraid.

When the solar energy estimates cant be scraped from Sheffield


Certainly true that EDF have been actively cooperating with Grid by
managing load reductions at Sizewell to help grid with stability.

On 12/05/2020 11:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Liquorice wrote:

National Grid are also looking at Demand Turn Up or variations where
they pay for generators to reduce their export to the grid or consume
more power.

Gridwatch shows 'notches' of lowered demand for several days recently,
ass though they've used load-shedding, i.e. the opposite of what that says?

Not sure what you are talking about, but the notches seem to coincide
with a loss of solar. I would guess this is something to do with how
solar is reported, rather than a genuine drop in demand.

Pancho wrote:

the notches seem to coincide with a loss of solar.

yes, a more obvious now that today's solar notch has inched-in a bit
from the edge of the graph.

On 20/05/2020 17:59, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 20 May 2020 17:52:03 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Wed, 20 May 2020 16:25:52 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

"Keeping The Lights On" in Private Eye has a little more on this ...

Do you have a link or is it pay walled?

I read it in the dead tree version. Basically it was to do with the Alice-
in-Wonderland structure of paying for 'leccy the UK has created. It
really doesn't fit in with the C-19 paradigm shift when it comes to
squeezing as much money from us as possible. Hence the grid has paid EDF
to turn off Sizewell B.

EDF reports the same.

Too much renewable energy I suppose and too little demand
Even Drax has cut back on its wood burning.


Europe has total energy surplus - we are importing all we can.

It's a very dangerous situation.

As I write 32% of the grid is being generated from non spinning turbines.

Very little margin for overload if a thunderstorm shorts out a windfarm
again...

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 21/05/2020 08:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 20/05/2020 17:59, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 20 May 2020 17:52:03 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Wed, 20 May 2020 16:25:52 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

"Keeping The Lights On" in Private Eye has a little more on this ...

Do you have a link or is it pay walled?

I read it in the dead tree version. Basically it was to do with the
Alice-
in-Wonderland structure of paying for 'leccy the UK has created. It
really doesn't fit in with the C-19 paradigm shift when it comes to
squeezing as much money from us as possible. Hence the grid has paid EDF
to turn off Sizewell B.

EDF reports the same.

Too much renewable energy I suppose and too little demand
Even Drax has cut back on its wood burning.


Europe has total energy surplus - we are importing all we can.

It's a very dangerous situation.

As I write 32% of the grid is being generated from non spinning turbines.

Very little margin for overload if a thunderstorm shorts out a windfarm
again...

I am sure this is correct. My understanding it that it is/was associated
with a specific grid constraint, and there was a negociation between EDF
and Grid. I don't know whether or not money changed hands or whether
there is a certain amount of "gentlemans' agreements" between the
players at times like this.

On 21/05/2020 16:06, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2020 08:31:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Very little margin for overload if a thunderstorm shorts out a windfarm
again...

Thunderstorms forecast for tomorrow ?

possibly.

--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 22/05/2020 14:31, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2020 18:38:45 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 21/05/2020 16:06, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2020 08:31:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Very little margin for overload if a thunderstorm shorts out a
windfarm again...

Thunderstorms forecast for tomorrow ?

possibly.

Not now. Forecast for rain has been pushed out. But by 'eck is it windy.

and even more non spinning turbine energy on the grid - we have even
stopped importing

34% only spinning turbine power. knife edge stuff


--
€œThose who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities.€�

€• Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles Ã* M. Claparede, Professeur de
Théologie Ã* Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de
M. de Voltaire

Jethro_uk wrote:

by 'eck is it windy.

Branches of willow blown down, turbines were still whizzing rather than
shutdown when I was on way home, crows were veering all over the place,
wind finished-off my TV aerial (but I think galvanic corrosion is the
really to blame)

http://andyburns.uk/photos/rotten-aerial.jpg

On 23/05/2020 15:44, Andy Burns wrote:
Jethro_uk wrote:

by 'eck is it windy.

Branches of willow blown down, turbines were still whizzing rather than
shutdown when I was on way home, crows were veering all over the place,
wind finished-off my TV aerial (but I think galvanic corrosion is the
really to blame)

http://andyburns.uk/photos/rotten-aerial.jpg





It's a log aeriel though, so cannot be that old. They were
rarely seen before the ?700Mhz clearout. How would galvanic
corrosion be the cause ?. It is aluminium and clamped to
an alloy pole.

Sounds like some robust crows have been trampolining on it.

Andrew wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

http://andyburns.uk/photos/rotten-aerial.jpg

It's a log aeriel though, so cannot be that old. They were rarely
seen before the ?700Mhz clearout.
Installed Aug 2006 before 1st DSO, it's a full wideband, the replacement
excludes 800MHz, no doubt they'll soon produce a version to exclude 700MHz

How would galvanic corrosion be the cause ?. It is aluminium and
clamped to an alloy pole.

The clamp plate that holds it to the pole is steel, zoom in on the top
of the boom

Sounds like some robust crows have been trampolining on it.

You'll notice the one bent element, some thug of a bird did that a few
months ago.

On Sat, 23 May 2020 18:14:51 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 23/05/2020 15:44, Andy Burns wrote:
Jethro_uk wrote:

by 'eck is it windy.

Branches of willow blown down, turbines were still whizzing rather than
shutdown when I was on way home, crows were veering all over the place,
wind finished-off my TV aerial (but I think galvanic corrosion is the
really to blame)

http://andyburns.uk/photos/rotten-aerial.jpg


It's a log aeriel though, so cannot be that old. They were
rarely seen before the ?700Mhz clearout. How would galvanic
corrosion be the cause ?. It is aluminium and clamped to
an alloy pole.

Sounds like some robust crows have been trampolining on it.

There are sets of plastic spikes made for keeping birds off - don't use
metal spikes! Vertical polarization for a relay wouldn't allow birds to
land, especially on a log periodic aerial.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 21/05/2020 16:06, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2020 08:31:10 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Very little margin for overload if a thunderstorm shorts out a windfarm
again...

Thunderstorms forecast for tomorrow ?


Didn't get any in Sussex. Just some dark clouds at 9AM and a few
spots of rain, then back to 'normal'. Getting quite windy now
though, even in Sussex.

Rampion, off the coast from Worthing will be whizzing around.

On Thu, 21 May 2020 15:06:55 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk wrote:

Very little margin for overload if a thunderstorm shorts out a
windfarm
again...

Thunderstorms forecast for tomorrow ?

Hopefully the pressed "save" when they tweaked the config of Hornsea
to make it less sensitive to blips on the grid. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 23/05/2020 11:02, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 21 May 2020 15:06:55 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk wrote:

Very little margin for overload if a thunderstorm shorts out a
windfarm
again...

Thunderstorms forecast for tomorrow ?

Hopefully the pressed "save" when they tweaked the config of Hornsea
to make it less sensitive to blips on the grid. B-)


Big bang over Sussex earlier as a succession of downpours came
across Southern england. windy too.