I want to relocate my existing primary circuit heated hot water tank to
another location in my house which will require me to install a 'Y'-type
system with a motorised three way valve. I've searched the Internet, without
much success so far, to find a clear circuit diagram which will help me
complete the re-piping of the system.

Does anyone know of a good source of diagrams either on the internet or
elsewhere which will help me design my pipe circuits? I think I understand
what I need to do but seeing in a picture/diagram would be worth a thousand
words. I am especially puzzled or concerned to know if I need to fit some
kind of bypass system around the motorised valve for either maintenance or
summer running.

TIA for any help than anyone can give me

Darth

"Darth Ai" wrote in message
. uk...
I want to relocate my existing primary circuit heated hot water tank to
another location in my house which will require me to install a 'Y'-type
system with a motorised three way valve. I've searched the Internet,
without
much success so far, to find a clear circuit diagram which will help me
complete the re-piping of the system.

Does anyone know of a good source of diagrams either on the internet or
elsewhere which will help me design my pipe circuits? I think I understand
what I need to do but seeing in a picture/diagram would be worth a
thousand
words. I am especially puzzled or concerned to know if I need to fit some
kind of bypass system around the motorised valve for either maintenance or
summer running.

TIA for any help than anyone can give me

Darth

Fill us in more and we will talk you though a system.

Fill us in more and we will talk you though a system.



The current system is a very simple vented system. The boiler is a Rayburn
gas range cooker. The primary circuit heats the cylinder which is placed
about 3 metres vertically above it by gravity alone. A 't' on the flow side
of the primary circuit leads to a pump which circulates the central heating
system and the return also 't's into the return side of the primary circuit.
I should add this is all in a typical north london, georgean terrace house
which is 3 storeys.

My plan is to raise the hot water cylinder from the room above the boiler on
the 1st flow to a position directly above it on the 2nd floor. I'm fairly
certain that the additional distance will mean that relying on natural
circulation of the primary circuit alone will not heat the hot water tank
sufficiently, therefore I'm assuming I will have to pump the primary and
therefore install a 'Y' type circuit (which I am also assuming will be the
easiest/simplest circuit for me to install as a DIYer).

The only diagram I've so far found to work from is this one:

http://www.gasman.fsbusiness.co.uk/images/yppic.jpg

and I wanted to know if this is a simplified schematic or if I can actually
rely on this diagram alone to design my system. I recall on one similar
system I saw some kind of bypass (not too sure where) and some way to
isolate the central heating circuit entirely by moving a lever on the valve
so that in the summer the central heating circuit was entirely out of the
loop. Also, are there any other "bleed" vallves I need to insert in the
circuit other than at the top of the primary circuit?

Given the fact that I'm raising the tank I can actually take advantage of a
lot of existing pipework which is why the 'Y' system appeals. I also do not
need separate zones etc. Looking at the diagrams the 'Y' circuit seems to be
the simplest scheme.

Does any of this make sense and can you make any further
recommendations?????

TIA

Darth

"Darth Ai" wrote in
. uk:


Does anyone know of a good source of diagrams either on the internet
or elsewhere which will help me design my pipe circuits? I think I
understand what I need to do but seeing in a picture/diagram would be
worth a thousand words. I am especially puzzled or concerned to know
if I need to fit some kind of bypass system around the motorised valve
for either maintenance or summer running.




http://www.myson.ie/pdfs/dualchannel.pdf

Circuit diagrams on page 4

and

http://content.honeywell.com/uk/homes/systems.htm

Although they are specific makers the parts are so interchangeable this
should be all you need.

PS if you're changing things consider "S" plan - it's better.

You don't normally need a bypass, the pump and boiler are called by the
valve opening, and can't start if there's no water path through rads
and/or HW cylinder

HTH

mike

"mike ring" wrote in message
52.50...
"Darth Ai" wrote in
. uk:


Does anyone know of a good source of diagrams either on the internet
or elsewhere which will help me design my pipe circuits? I think I
understand what I need to do but seeing in a picture/diagram would be
worth a thousand words. I am especially puzzled or concerned to know
if I need to fit some kind of bypass system around the motorised valve
for either maintenance or summer running.




http://www.myson.ie/pdfs/dualchannel.pdf

Circuit diagrams on page 4

and

http://content.honeywell.com/uk/homes/systems.htm

Although they are specific makers the parts are so interchangeable this
should be all you need.

PS if you're changing things consider "S" plan - it's better.

You don't normally need a bypass, the pump and boiler are called by the
valve opening, and can't start if there's no water path through rads
and/or HW cylinder


If its a standard big lump of iron Rayburn then he WILL need to make
arrangements to dump heat from the unit when the heating is off and/or the
hot water is satisfied. Best advice is to consult AgaRayburn

If its a standard big lump of iron Rayburn then he WILL need to make
arrangements to dump heat from the unit when the heating is off and/or the
hot water is satisfied. Best advice is to consult AgaRayburn



I assume that is a simple as a hot water tank thermostat which will a)
divert the valve close the valve regulating the circulating of the primary
circuit, and b) turn off the burners if no other supply requires the heat,
e.g. the central heating.

Am I right in my assumption? How else can you "dump" heat?

Darth

"Darth Ai" wrote in message
k...
If its a standard big lump of iron Rayburn then he WILL need to make
arrangements to dump heat from the unit when the heating is off and/or
the
hot water is satisfied. Best advice is to consult AgaRayburn



I assume that is a simple as a hot water tank thermostat which will a)
divert the valve close the valve regulating the circulating of the primary
circuit, and b) turn off the burners if no other supply requires the heat,
e.g. the central heating.

Am I right in my assumption? How else can you "dump" heat?

Darth


Your post did not make clear what type of Rayburn you have but if the
"boiler" part is composed of a big solid lump of cast iron which is heated
by the same burner as the rest of the cooker as the early ones were then it
isn't possible to stop the water heating up when the cooker is in use so
turning off the flow to rads or cylinder primary will lead to the water
within the boiler actually boiling (ie rising to 100 deg C). A heat dump is
a radiator fed by gravity which dissipates the boiler heat - wasteful but
neccessary with this setup.
You might have a more modern Rayburn such as the Royale which has two
seperate burners one for the cooker and one for the boiler. In this case it
is possible to control the units seperately.
As I said it is best to ask Rayburn for a true assessment and correct
answer!

You might have a more modern Rayburn such as the Royale which has two
seperate burners one for the cooker and one for the boiler. In this case
it
is possible to control the units seperately.
As I said it is best to ask Rayburn for a true assessment and correct
answer!

John, you're right about contacing Rayburn and I'm going to call them on
Monday. But, as you point out, it is one of the more modern ones with a
separate boiler unit which is independently thermostatically controlled.

Whilst at the Rayburn site I noted that this type of Rayburn will support a
primary circuit working on pure convection up 20 metres in length. If this
is the case all I'd need to do is extend my existing primary circuit and I
don't have to bother with pumping it and all the attendant changes to
pipework, valves etc etc. Seems hard to believe which is why I want to
confirm with Rayburn directly.

Cheers

Darth

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:50:41 +0000, Darth Ai wrote:

I want to relocate my existing primary circuit heated hot water tank to
another location in my house which will require me to install a 'Y'-type
system with a motorised three way valve. I've searched the Internet, without
much success so far, to find a clear circuit diagram which will help me
complete the re-piping of the system.

Does anyone know of a good source of diagrams either on the internet or
elsewhere which will help me design my pipe circuits? I think I understand
what I need to do but seeing in a picture/diagram would be worth a thousand
words. I am especially puzzled or concerned to know if I need to fit some
kind of bypass system around the motorised valve for either maintenance or
summer running.

TIA for any help than anyone can give me

Darth

The main FAQ for this group has a lot of diagrams for both the water and
electrical aspects.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html