On 27 Jul 2003 06:12:51 -0700, Steve Wilson wrote:
Any suggestions gratefully and desperately received -

How much gung/sludge is in the bottom of the expansion tank? Draining
might have drawn some into the system causing a blockage.

Though I suspect it' more likely to be a problem with valves not being
open to let the air out and the water in. See if excercising the
system to see if you can get things shifting. Most motorised valves
have a manual device for opening them. Use it and open all valves, 3
port ones set to their mid position so all the ports are connected top
each other. Also switch the boiler off on it's own switch or
thermostat to stop it firing on a possibly dry boiler.

the thought of calling out the plumber to fix my DIY is too
embarassing to contemplate !

He he...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Steve Wilson" wrote in message
om...
I've just drained my central heating system down and fitted a trendy
new designer radiator. It looks fantastic, but has left with me with
some practical problems - I can't bleed the air out of the upper floor
radiators and I have no hot water !
The radiator is one of the tall helical "Hot Springs" models, but is
the required 2 foot below the expansion tank, so that can't be the
issue.
I have 2 draincocks in the garage - the one that I used definitely
drained the radiators, but could it also have drained the hot water
cyclinder? There seems to be less water than these should be getting
to the pump (and slackening the bleed screw produces neither air nor
water. I can't find any means of bleeding air from the cyclinder.
I can't understand why the air won't bleed out of the upstairs
radiators. They seem to be partially filled, but don't seem to want
any more water (there is plenty in the expansion tank, I've checked).
Any suggestions gratefully and desperately received - the thought of
calling out the plumber to fix my DIY is too embarassing to
contemplate !
Thanks in advance,
Steve

Hi Steve,

Do the pipes for the upper floor radiators rise out of the floor, or fall
from the ceiling above. Unlikely, but, if they do fall from the ceiling
above then are there any high point manual bleeds in the loft?

Make sure that any Zone valves are manually opened.

Your header tank is full. Shut off the main water supply, open a drain off
and let out a load more water. Take another look at the header tank. Has it
emptied? If not then you have a blockage in the feed pipe.

Bill.

"Steve Wilson" wrote in message
om...
I've just drained my central heating system down and fitted a trendy
new designer radiator. It looks fantastic, but has left with me with
some practical problems - I can't bleed the air out of the upper floor
radiators and I have no hot water !
The radiator is one of the tall helical "Hot Springs" models, but is
the required 2 foot below the expansion tank, so that can't be the
issue.
I have 2 draincocks in the garage - the one that I used definitely
drained the radiators, but could it also have drained the hot water
cyclinder? There seems to be less water than these should be getting
to the pump (and slackening the bleed screw produces neither air nor
water. I can't find any means of bleeding air from the cyclinder.
I can't understand why the air won't bleed out of the upstairs
radiators. They seem to be partially filled, but don't seem to want
any more water (there is plenty in the expansion tank, I've checked).
Any suggestions gratefully and desperately received - the thought of
calling out the plumber to fix my DIY is too embarassing to
contemplate !
Thanks in advance,
Steve

Apart from the other excellent advice already posted:

I had a similar problem when I added another couple of radiators - when I
looked in the header tank it had a load of red 'algae' type stuff which had
beeen crusted around the sides and bottom of the tank, but had been stirred
up by the emptying and refilling.
This had blocked the downward feed to the system, giving the symptoms you
describe.

Fixed as follows:

(1) Tie up ballcock to prevent more water coming in
(2) Drain header tank into the bath using garden hose as syphon - the syphon
was primed from an upstairs tap (mains cold water) because I didn't fancy
sucking. This filled the bath with nasty red gunk but cleared out the tank.
You can untie the ballcock for a bit to help the flushing through.
(3) Removed the bottom feed from the header tank and fixed the end of the
garden hose to it secured with a jubilee clip.
(4) Connected other end of the hose pipe to mains cold water and slowly
turned on the tap. This pressuirised the system, and cleared the blockage.
Fortunately I have more than one hosepipe so I could flush the system
through by opening the drain cock downstairs and draining through another
hose pipe. Hopefully this removed most of the red gunk.
(5) Reconnect the pipe to the bottom of the header tank and fill as normal.

HTH
Dave R

P.S. an alternative emergency solution is to pressurise your system using
mains water (from a tap with a non-return valve) up through your garage
drain cock. This will allow you to fill the sytem but will not solve the
problem with the feed from your header tank.

I had a similar problem when I added another couple of radiators - when I
looked in the header tank it had a load of red 'algae' type stuff which
had
beeen crusted around the sides and bottom of the tank, but had been
stirred
up by the emptying and refilling.
This had blocked the downward feed to the system, giving the symptoms you
describe.

Fixed as follows:

(1) Tie up ballcock to prevent more water coming in
(2) Drain header tank into the bath using garden hose as syphon - the
syphon
was primed from an upstairs tap (mains cold water) because I didn't fancy
sucking. This filled the bath with nasty red gunk but cleared out the
tank.
You can untie the ballcock for a bit to help the flushing through.
(3) Removed the bottom feed from the header tank and fixed the end of the
garden hose to it secured with a jubilee clip.
(4) Connected other end of the hose pipe to mains cold water and slowly
turned on the tap. This pressuirised the system, and cleared the blockage.
Fortunately I have more than one hosepipe so I could flush the system
through by opening the drain cock downstairs and draining through another
hose pipe. Hopefully this removed most of the red gunk.
(5) Reconnect the pipe to the bottom of the header tank and fill as
normal.

HTH
Dave R

Dave,
You are a lifesaver ! If you live anywhere near Milton Keynes, I'll buy
you a beer, or several !
I drained the system down again and, lo and behold, the header tank wasn't
draining, so I disconnected the outlet pipe and jubilee'd a hosepipe to it
as per your instructions. Turning on the hose led to a sudden bout of
gurgling, then water started spurting out of the open valve of a downstairs
radiator (which I took to be a good sign!).
The system refilled perfectly, better in fact than it has ever done in the 4
years that I have been living here (and I've been through the
draining/refilling routine more times than I care to remember). The smart
new rad. works well and we won't have to have cold showers tomorrow morning
!
Thanks again,
Steve

Dave,
You are a lifesaver ! If you live anywhere near Milton Keynes, I'll buy
you a beer, or several !
I drained the system down again and, lo and behold, the header tank wasn't
draining, so I disconnected the outlet pipe and jubilee'd a hosepipe to it
as per your instructions. Turning on the hose led to a sudden bout of
gurgling, then water started spurting out of the open valve of a
downstairs
radiator (which I took to be a good sign!).
The system refilled perfectly, better in fact than it has ever done in the
4
years that I have been living here (and I've been through the
draining/refilling routine more times than I care to remember). The smart
new rad. works well and we won't have to have cold showers tomorrow
morning
!

So did you use the mains just to unblock, or have you filled the whole
system via the hose pipe? (just thinking it wouldnt have any corrosion
inhibitor or anything in if you did that?)

In article ,
Steve Wilson wrote:
I've just drained my central heating system down and fitted a trendy
new designer radiator. It looks fantastic, but has left with me with
some practical problems - I can't bleed the air out of the upper floor
radiators and I have no hot water !

By far and away the most likely cause is an airlock. To cure this, you
could try draining down again and re-filling, but this probably won't
work. The easiest way is to drain down, then fill via the drain point
using mains pressure water. You'll need someone watching the header tank
and as soon as water starts rising in this, stop.

--
*I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

snip
Dave,
You are a lifesaver ! If you live anywhere near Milton Keynes, I'll buy
you a beer, or several !
I drained the system down again and, lo and behold, the header tank wasn't
draining, so I disconnected the outlet pipe and jubilee'd a hosepipe to it
as per your instructions. Turning on the hose led to a sudden bout of
gurgling, then water started spurting out of the open valve of a
downstairs
radiator (which I took to be a good sign!).
The system refilled perfectly, better in fact than it has ever done in the
4
years that I have been living here (and I've been through the
draining/refilling routine more times than I care to remember). The smart
new rad. works well and we won't have to have cold showers tomorrow
morning
!
Thanks again,
Steve

Glad it worked for you!
Cheers
Dave R

I can't find any means of bleeding air from the cyclinder.
I can't understand why the air won't bleed out of the upstairs
radiators.

If the cylinder, pipework, radiators and boilers are all man enough to take
it, then convert the gravity fed system to a sealed pressurised one. Then
you just don't get these problems. The kit of parts to do so is very cheap
and you could probably fit it in the time it takes to sort out your airlock!

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message .net...
I can't find any means of bleeding air from the cyclinder.
I can't understand why the air won't bleed out of the upstairs
radiators.

If the cylinder, pipework, radiators and boilers are all man enough to take
it, then convert the gravity fed system to a sealed pressurised one. Then
you just don't get these problems. The kit of parts to do so is very cheap
and you could probably fit it in the time it takes to sort out your airlock!

Christian.

I never knew that was possible. Any pointers on where to go to find
out the pros and cons, and how to do it?
Cheers,
Steve