The government wants to stop people burning would that has not dried
properly, but do many people do this anyway?


--
Michael Chare

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The government wants to stop people burning would that has not dried
properly, but do many people do this anyway?

I'm surprised that any wood that is sold has not been seasoned for a while,
even if it's not kiln-dried. I've learned something.

We have cut down quite a large pile of wood (mainly Leylandii and other
conifers, with a bit of willow) and we are planning to season it for a year
or so before we burn it. It's still in large branches: I need to get a
decent saw (probably chainsaw) to cut it into stove-sized logs. I used an
electric reciprocating saw to cut a lot of it off the tree, apart from the
first ones that I did with a tenon saw, because a coarse-toothed bushman's
saw had a tendency to bind in the wood very quickly. The electric
reciprocating saw does the job but it's painfully slow. I need to see if
Black and Decker do a coarser logging blade for the reciprocating saw,
otherwise it will be chainsaw and safety lessons!

No way would we consider burning it at present, without letting the sap dry.
Anyway, at the moment it's soaking wet after being outside, but that will
dry when it's under cover.

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 15:26:36 -0000, "NY" wrote:

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The government wants to stop people burning would that has not dried
properly, but do many people do this anyway?

I'm surprised that any wood that is sold has not been seasoned for a while,
even if it's not kiln-dried. I've learned something.

I don't think many people do, but now they shouldn't if they wanted
to?

We have cut down quite a large pile of wood (mainly Leylandii and other
conifers, with a bit of willow) and we are planning to season it for a year
or so before we burn it.

I'd just stack it up as habitat somewhere as I don't think it's very
nice to burn?

It's still in large branches:

'In the round' I think they call it.

I need to get a
decent saw (probably chainsaw) to cut it into stove-sized logs.

Ah, so not very large diameter at this point.

Normally you would take it from the trunk / limb size and chog it up
ready for splitting (de-liming the trunk if it has large limbs / crown
or typically snedding for your conifers).

Once split into logs, stacked and covered (just the top to keep the
most of the rain off) it will dry / season the quickest.

I used an
electric reciprocating saw to cut a lot of it off the tree,

They can be ok, up to a certain diameter etc.

apart from the
first ones that I did with a tenon saw,

Hmm, on 'green' wood? ;-(

because a coarse-toothed bushman's
saw had a tendency to bind in the wood very quickly.

If the cut wasn't under compression and the blade was sharp and had
the right 'set', it should have been like a knife though butter.
Daughters 'Silky' hand held saw is razor sharp and will cut though a
4" diameter (green) branch in just a few strokes?

The electric
reciprocating saw does the job but it's painfully slow.

Again. We have put a proper green wood blade on my Saber saw and as
long as the job is held firmly, it cuts though pretty quickly?

I need to see if
Black and Decker do a coarser logging blade for the reciprocating saw,
otherwise it will be chainsaw and safety lessons!

And the right PPE etc.

If the wood is green and the cut under tension, even a small bow saw
should make reasonably easy work of it? The key is insuring the job is
held firmly as any movement (especially angular to the blade) will
cause it to stick and jam.

No way would we consider burning it at present, without letting the sap dry.

You can with a couple of species, like Ash (that is supposed to burn
as well green as seasoned)?

Anyway, at the moment it's soaking wet after being outside, but that will
dry when it's under cover.

I don't think it's that sort of 'wet' you need to worry about. Surface
water (rain) will generally evaporate off pretty quickly, especially
compared with the moisture *in* the timber anyway. That's why it's
best to chog it down at last as that exposes more 'ends' to dry out
from or better still, split it into logs, to further expose more of
the timber to evaporate from.

Cut it into fire sized logs, split if possible / necessary then stack
neatly somewhere and just cover the top to keep the rain off, allowing
as much air to blow though the stack as possible. Even without any
covering it will still season ok, especially if it can get the sun on
it.

I bought a manual-hydraulic log splitter to log up a couple of pretty
large ash trees. That was both good fun and exercise. It was one of
those ... 'I'm tired ... but just one more chog' sort of things. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 22/02/2020 15:26, NY wrote:
"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The government wants to stop people burning would that has not dried
properly, but do many people do this anyway?

I'm surprised that any wood that is sold has not been seasoned for a
while, even if it's not kiln-dried. I've learned something.

We have cut down quite a large pile of wood (mainly Leylandii and other
conifers, with a bit of willow) and we are planning to season it for a
year or so before we burn it. It's still in large branches: I need to
get a decent saw (probably chainsaw) to cut it into stove-sized logs. I
used an electric reciprocating saw to cut a lot of it off the tree,
apart from the first ones that I did with a tenon saw, because a
coarse-toothed bushman's saw had a tendency to bind in the wood very
quickly. The electric reciprocating saw does the job but it's painfully
slow. I need to see if Black and Decker do a coarser logging blade for
the reciprocating saw, otherwise it will be chainsaw and safety lessons!

TS do some Silverline "green wood" blades that are not bad if you saw
can take the standard recip saw blades.

No way would we consider burning it at present, without letting the sap
dry. Anyway, at the moment it's soaking wet after being outside, but
that will dry when it's under cover.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22/02/2020 15:26, NY wrote:
"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The government wants to stop people burning would that has not dried
properly, but do many people do this anyway?

I'm surprised that any wood that is sold has not been seasoned for a
while, even if it's not kiln-dried. I've learned something.

You can get it direct from tree surgeons, but I have *never* seen it
sold on garage forecourts or supermarkets. I confess I haven't looked
all that hard since they vastly overprice and over package tiny amounts
of wood and coal. The stuff I burn is mostly diseased dead wood.

I'll still be able to get fresh and wet in 2m^3 quantities if I want but
I would never dream of burning anything other than well seasoned dry
timber in my stove. Mine is typically two years seasoned under cover and
then left by the fireside for a while and used in rotation.

No-one who is serious about heating their home would ever use wet wood!

We have cut down quite a large pile of wood (mainly Leylandii and other
conifers, with a bit of willow) and we are planning to season it for a
year or so before we burn it. It's still in large branches: I need to
get a decent saw (probably chainsaw) to cut it into stove-sized logs. I

It needs at least two years seasoning protected from the rain to get the
water content down. Longer still if you don't cut it into short lengths.

used an electric reciprocating saw to cut a lot of it off the tree,
apart from the first ones that I did with a tenon saw, because a
coarse-toothed bushman's saw had a tendency to bind in the wood very
quickly. The electric reciprocating saw does the job but it's painfully
slow. I need to see if Black and Decker do a coarser logging blade for
the reciprocating saw, otherwise it will be chainsaw and safety lessons!

No way would we consider burning it at present, without letting the sap
dry. Anyway, at the moment it's soaking wet after being outside, but
that will dry when it's under cover.

Burning too high a proportion of soft resinous wood may lead to
interesting chimney fires if you don't pay attention to making it burn
clean and sweeping it periodically. Hard wood burns more steadily.

I wonder how in the ban they will deal with specialist requirements for
full scale live steam and model steam engines (the latter requiring the
highest quality of furnace anthracite to stand any chance of working).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 22/02/20 17:43, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/02/2020 15:26, NY wrote:


We have cut down quite a large pile of wood (mainly Leylandii and other
conifers, with a bit of willow) and we are planning to season it for a
year or so before we burn it. It's still in large branches: I need to
get a decent saw (probably chainsaw) to cut it into stove-sized logs. I

It needs at least two years seasoning protected from the rain to get the
water content down. Longer still if you don't cut it into short lengths.

Agreed. One year is not enough, and maybe two isn't if you get the sort
of weather we are having at the moment! And remember that a complete
round with intact bark will take a lot longer to dry than split wood.

The other thing to consider is getting a decent wood moisture meter (the
sort of thing he
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=wood+moisture+meter&rh=p_72%3A419153031&s=pric e-asc-rank&dc&crid=19TAGAWR6GAO0&qid=1582398849&rnid=419 152031&sprefix=wood+mositure%2Caps%2C164&ref=sr_nr _p_72_1).
That way you can check the wood yourself to see if it is dry enough.

No way would we consider burning it at present, without letting the sap
dry. Anyway, at the moment it's soaking wet after being outside, but
that will dry when it's under cover.

Burning too high a proportion of soft resinous wood may lead to
interesting chimney fires if you don't pay attention to making it burn
clean and sweeping it periodically.

It's worth considering regular use of a chimney cleaner powder to help
keep the deposits down.

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman wrote:

It's worth considering regular use of a chimney cleaner powder to help
keep the deposits down.


Does this stuff actually work and if so, how? Id like to believe that it
does but Im a tad sceptical.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Tim+ wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:

It's worth considering regular use of a chimney cleaner powder to help
keep the deposits down.


Does this stuff actually work and if so, how? Id like to believe that it
does but Im a tad sceptical.

Tim


Answering my own question. Seems others are sceptical too.

https://www.motherearthnews.com/home...s-zmaz81sozraw

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Saturday, 22 February 2020 19:45:29 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:

It's worth considering regular use of a chimney cleaner powder to help
keep the deposits down.


Does this stuff actually work and if so, how? Id like to believe that it
does but Im a tad sceptical.

It's bollix.
What you need is a good blaze once a week to burn away tar deposits. A few copies of the Guardian when the fire is good and hot.

Plus a properly designed chimney.

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 19:26:17 +0000, Jeff Layman wrote:

The other thing to consider is getting a decent wood moisture meter

Well it will give you a vague idea of the moisture content of the
surface but not the inside of the log which is the important bit.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 22/02/20 23:11, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 19:26:17 +0000, Jeff Layman wrote:

The other thing to consider is getting a decent wood moisture meter

Well it will give you a vague idea of the moisture content of the
surface but not the inside of the log which is the important bit.

It gives you an idea of the water content a few mm in by pushing the
spikes in. The problem with having logs indoors for a short time is that
the /outside/ will dry very quickly, thus giving the impression the
whole log is dry. A moisture meter will soon show that the dryness
really is only skin deep, and should not be put on the fire.

--

Jeff

On Saturday, 22 February 2020 17:43:45 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/02/2020 15:26, NY wrote:
"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The government wants to stop people burning would that has not dried
properly, but do many people do this anyway?

I'm surprised that any wood that is sold has not been seasoned for a
while, even if it's not kiln-dried. I've learned something.

You can get it direct from tree surgeons, but I have *never* seen it
sold on garage forecourts or supermarkets. I confess I haven't looked
all that hard since they vastly overprice and over package tiny amounts
of wood and coal. The stuff I burn is mostly diseased dead wood.

I'll still be able to get fresh and wet in 2m^3 quantities if I want but
I would never dream of burning anything other than well seasoned dry
timber in my stove. Mine is typically two years seasoned under cover and
then left by the fireside for a while and used in rotation.

No-one who is serious about heating their home would ever use wet wood!

We have cut down quite a large pile of wood (mainly Leylandii and other
conifers, with a bit of willow) and we are planning to season it for a
year or so before we burn it. It's still in large branches: I need to
get a decent saw (probably chainsaw) to cut it into stove-sized logs. I

It needs at least two years seasoning protected from the rain to get the
water content down. Longer still if you don't cut it into short lengths.

used an electric reciprocating saw to cut a lot of it off the tree,
apart from the first ones that I did with a tenon saw, because a
coarse-toothed bushman's saw had a tendency to bind in the wood very
quickly. The electric reciprocating saw does the job but it's painfully
slow. I need to see if Black and Decker do a coarser logging blade for
the reciprocating saw, otherwise it will be chainsaw and safety lessons!

No way would we consider burning it at present, without letting the sap
dry. Anyway, at the moment it's soaking wet after being outside, but
that will dry when it's under cover.

Burning too high a proportion of soft resinous wood may lead to
interesting chimney fires if you don't pay attention to making it burn
clean and sweeping it periodically. Hard wood burns more steadily.

I wonder how in the ban they will deal with specialist requirements for
full scale live steam and model steam engines (the latter requiring the
highest quality of furnace anthracite to stand any chance of working).



Steam locomotive boilers were designed to burn the local coal.
Or even wood in the USA
Not anthracite which was too expensive.

Martin Brown

I wonder how in the ban they will deal with specialist requirements for
full scale live steam and model steam engines (the latter requiring the
highest quality of furnace anthracite to stand any chance of working).


Anthracite as a natural low sulphur ,€�smokeless€� fuel is unaffected by the
measures to be implemented.

It was specifically mentioned in the proposals a couple of years back.

Quote. .

€œAnthracite is a naturally occurring, mined, high-purity form of coal, and
is approved for use in smoke control areas because of low emissions of
particulate matter. We are not currently seeking further evidence on the
use of anthracite.€�


GH

Marland wrote:
Martin Brown

I wonder how in the ban they will deal with specialist requirements for
full scale live steam and model steam engines (the latter requiring the
highest quality of furnace anthracite to stand any chance of working).


Anthracite as a natural low sulphur ,€�smokeless€� fuel is unaffected by the
measures to be implemented.

It was specifically mentioned in the proposals a couple of years back.

Quote. .

€œAnthracite is a naturally occurring, mined, high-purity form of coal, and
is approved for use in smoke control areas because of low emissions of
particulate matter. We are not currently seeking further evidence on the
use of anthracite.€�


GH



The key word is currently.

The Eco Terrorists wont be happy until theyve totally removed all our
reliable and economic sources of energy, and wrecked our economy.

Brian Reay wrote:
Marland wrote:
Martin Brown

I wonder how in the ban they will deal with specialist requirements for
full scale live steam and model steam engines (the latter requiring the
highest quality of furnace anthracite to stand any chance of working).


Anthracite as a natural low sulphur ,€�smokeless€� fuel is unaffected by the
measures to be implemented.

It was specifically mentioned in the proposals a couple of years back.

Quote. .

€œAnthracite is a naturally occurring, mined, high-purity form of coal, and
is approved for use in smoke control areas because of low emissions of
particulate matter. We are not currently seeking further evidence on the
use of anthracite.€�


The key word is currently.

The Eco Terrorists wont be happy until theyve totally removed all our
reliable and economic sources of energy, and wrecked our economy.



I agree, but for the moment the chances of the green party allied with
others turning over the Conservative Party seems more remote now than a few
months back.


GH

On 22/02/2020 17:43, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/02/2020 15:26, NY wrote:
"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The government wants to stop people burning would that has not dried
properly, but do many people do this anyway?

I'm surprised that any wood that is sold has not been seasoned for a
while, even if it's not kiln-dried. I've learned something.

You can get it direct from tree surgeons, but I have *never* seen it
sold on garage forecourts or supermarkets. I confess I haven't looked
all that hard since they vastly overprice and over package tiny amounts
of wood and coal. The stuff I burn is mostly diseased dead wood.

I'll still be able to get fresh and wet in 2m^3 quantities if I want but
I would never dream of burning anything other than well seasoned dry
timber in my stove. Mine is typically two years seasoned under cover and
then left by the fireside for a while and used in rotation.

No-one who is serious about heating their home would ever use wet wood!

We have cut down quite a large pile of wood (mainly Leylandii and
other conifers, with a bit of willow) and we are planning to season it
for a year or so before we burn it. It's still in large branches: I
need to get a decent saw (probably chainsaw) to cut it into
stove-sized logs. I

It needs at least two years seasoning protected from the rain to get the
water content down. Longer still if you don't cut it into short lengths.

used an electric reciprocating saw to cut a lot of it off the tree,
apart from the first ones that I did with a tenon saw, because a
coarse-toothed bushman's saw had a tendency to bind in the wood very
quickly. The electric reciprocating saw does the job but it's
painfully slow. I need to see if Black and Decker do a coarser logging
blade for the reciprocating saw, otherwise it will be chainsaw and
safety lessons!

No way would we consider burning it at present, without letting the
sap dry. Anyway, at the moment it's soaking wet after being outside,
but that will dry when it's under cover.

Burning too high a proportion of soft resinous wood may lead to
interesting chimney fires if you don't pay attention to making it burn
clean and sweeping it periodically. Hard wood burns more steadily.

I wonder how in the ban they will deal with specialist requirements for
full scale live steam and model steam engines (the latter requiring the
highest quality of furnace anthracite to stand any chance of working).

The government has planned for quite a while to continue the exemptions
for steam locomotives and traction engines and owners are not concerned
about that. However, they are concerned about getting hold of supplies
at a reasonable price - without the domestic heating market, there is
not enough demand to sustain the supply lines and this may well make
such supplies a "special" import and extremely expensive due to the
relatively low quantities required.

SteveW

On 24/02/2020 16:52, Steve Walker wrote:
On 22/02/2020 17:43, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/02/2020 15:26, NY wrote:
"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The government wants to stop people burning would that has not dried
properly, but do many people do this anyway?

I'm surprised that any wood that is sold has not been seasoned for a
while, even if it's not kiln-dried. I've learned something.

You can get it direct from tree surgeons, but I have *never* seen it
sold on garage forecourts or supermarkets. I confess I haven't looked
all that hard since they vastly overprice and over package tiny
amounts of wood and coal. The stuff I burn is mostly diseased dead wood.

I'll still be able to get fresh and wet in 2m^3 quantities if I want
but I would never dream of burning anything other than well seasoned
dry timber in my stove. Mine is typically two years seasoned under
cover and then left by the fireside for a while and used in rotation.

No-one who is serious about heating their home would ever use wet wood!

We have cut down quite a large pile of wood (mainly Leylandii and
other conifers, with a bit of willow) and we are planning to season
it for a year or so before we burn it. It's still in large branches:
I need to get a decent saw (probably chainsaw) to cut it into
stove-sized logs. I

It needs at least two years seasoning protected from the rain to get
the water content down. Longer still if you don't cut it into short
lengths.

used an electric reciprocating saw to cut a lot of it off the tree,
apart from the first ones that I did with a tenon saw, because a
coarse-toothed bushman's saw had a tendency to bind in the wood very
quickly. The electric reciprocating saw does the job but it's
painfully slow. I need to see if Black and Decker do a coarser
logging blade for the reciprocating saw, otherwise it will be
chainsaw and safety lessons!

No way would we consider burning it at present, without letting the
sap dry. Anyway, at the moment it's soaking wet after being outside,
but that will dry when it's under cover.

Burning too high a proportion of soft resinous wood may lead to
interesting chimney fires if you don't pay attention to making it burn
clean and sweeping it periodically. Hard wood burns more steadily.

I wonder how in the ban they will deal with specialist requirements
for full scale live steam and model steam engines (the latter
requiring the highest quality of furnace anthracite to stand any
chance of working).

The government has planned for quite a while to continue the exemptions
for steam locomotives and traction engines and owners are not concerned
about that. However, they are concerned about getting hold of supplies
at a reasonable price - without the domestic heating market, there is
not enough demand to sustain the supply lines and this may well make
such supplies a "special" import and extremely expensive due to the
relatively low quantities required.

Steamers run on dry steam coal or anthracite - not low grade bituminous.

Both are allowed to be sold
SteveW


--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 15:59:33 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

snip

Is delivery of logs in bulk like that included in the ban?

That's what I'd like to know Chris.

I think the grist is they intend to 'ban the sale of wet wood and ...
' but who Polices that?

Like, are they allowed to naturally season the timber and then sell it
to you (makes sense), or get it kiln dried (gotta cost more energy /
pollution) and then sell it to you?

If it is,
what are tree surgeons going to do with their felled timber?

Find a timber yard that has to room to season the timber in the round
(or chogs if big and handled manually)?

Not that
I care as I don't now have the facilities for burning logs, nor the
need.

I care as I have to preference to breathe as fresh an air as I can
get. ;-)

Daughter currently lives by the river and where narrow boats often
moor up. On a colder still night the air is full of the smell of
burning wood and coal. Like petrol, the 'smell' is nice (to some) but
when it's fumes are a carcinogen ... ;-(

Personally, all timber should be used as timber and for as long as
possible and / or then chopped up into chipboard and made into
something else. Once past it's final use it should then be stacked in
empty underground workings, keeping all that carbon captured. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 22/02/2020 16:23, T i m wrote:

Personally, all timber should be used as timber and for as long as
possible and / or then chopped up into chipboard and made into
something else. Once past it's final use it should then be stacked in
empty underground workings, keeping all that carbon captured. ;-)

That's totally bonkers.

Bill

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 19:42:37 +0000, williamwright
wrote:

On 22/02/2020 16:23, T i m wrote:

Personally, all timber should be used as timber and for as long as
possible and / or then chopped up into chipboard and made into
something else. Once past it's final use it should then be stacked in
empty underground workings, keeping all that carbon captured. ;-)

That's totally bonkers.

Well, whilst it might not be workable ITRW, it is a good idea in
principal.

The problem with using wood for carbon capture is that you loose that
capture as soon as you burn it (that's it's typical end) or allow it
to decompose.

So, if you can keep it as wood (ideally once it's got to chipboard as
you can't typically re-use that for other things), you keep the carbon
captured.

Keep growing trees and harvesting them, you keep capturing carbon. So,
either make into things that people are going to keep for a very long
time (good quality furniture), then just don't burn or let it rot away
when it's finished with.

Cheers, T i m

On 22/02/2020 20:42, T i m wrote:

Keep growing trees and harvesting them, you keep capturing carbon. So,
either make into things that people are going to keep for a very long
time (good quality furniture), then just don't burn or let it rot away
when it's finished with.

The problem could be that good quality furniture usually need slow
growing trees and for carbon capture you will need fast growing trees
(repeatedly) harvested when the growth is relatively thin.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 19:42:37 +0000, williamwright wrote:

On 22/02/2020 16:23, T i m wrote:

Personally, all timber should be used as timber and for as long as
possible and / or then chopped up into chipboard and made into
something else. Once past it's final use it should then be stacked in
empty underground workings, keeping all that carbon captured. ;-)

That's totally bonkers.

Bill

:-)

But later on he says:
"I bought a manual-hydraulic log splitter to log up a couple of pretty
large ash trees. That was both good fun and exercise. It was one of those
.... 'I'm tired ... but just one more chog' sort of things. ;-)"

Not sure why someone would to log some 'pretty large ash trees' for fun
and exercise and then discard the logs. He wouldn't allow them to be
burnt of course as that would go against his principles of not releasing
the carbon.

Bev Wrote in message:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 19:42:37 +0000, williamwright wrote:

On 22/02/2020 16:23, T i m wrote:

Personally, all timber should be used as timber and for as long as
possible and / or then chopped up into chipboard and made into
something else. Once past it's final use it should then be stacked in
empty underground workings, keeping all that carbon captured. ;-)

That's totally bonkers.

Bill

:-)

But later on he says:
"I bought a manual-hydraulic log splitter to log up a couple of pretty
large ash trees. That was both good fun and exercise. It was one of those
... 'I'm tired ... but just one more chog' sort of things. ;-)"

Not sure why someone would to log some 'pretty large ash trees' for fun
and exercise and then discard the logs. He wouldn't allow them to be
burnt of course as that would go against his principles of not releasing
the carbon.


Except when he's burning the paint off metal wheels on his
bonfire..... ;-)
--
Jimk


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Saturday, 22 February 2020 16:24:00 UTC, T i m wrote:


Personally, all timber should be used as timber and for as long as
possible and / or then chopped up into chipboard and made into
something else. Once past it's final use it should then be stacked in
empty underground workings, keeping all that carbon captured. ;-)

If you were able to do that, completely, what would happen to all the fungi which rely on wood? Surely we don't want them to become extinct.

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 11:49:52 -0800 (PST), polygonum_on_google
wrote:

On Saturday, 22 February 2020 16:24:00 UTC, T i m wrote:


Personally, all timber should be used as timber and for as long as
possible and / or then chopped up into chipboard and made into
something else. Once past it's final use it should then be stacked in
empty underground workings, keeping all that carbon captured. ;-)

If you were able to do that, completely, what would happen to all the fungi which rely on wood?

We wouldn't do it to *all* trees, we would (typically) only do it to
the wood we harvest to use for ourselves.

Surely we don't want them to become extinct.

Of course not. ;-)

Take an unused mine system, pack it with chipboard, flood it with some
non-toxic liquid that effectively encapsulates the wood, stops it
decomposing and then the mines won't collapse either. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 22/02/2020 20:47, T i m wrote:

Take an unused mine system, pack it with chipboard, flood it with some
non-toxic liquid that effectively encapsulates the wood, stops it
decomposing and then the mines won't collapse either. ;-)

They are doing much the same with end-of-life wind turbine blades. All
the CO2 that went in to their composite materials is being buried in
landfill and of course will never rot down. Greta's transatlantic yacht
will eventually meet the same fate.

Make everything of carbon composites!

--
Spike

In the Unprecedented Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Change Global
Heating
Emergency Alarm system, only the future is certain. The past is
constantly being revised.

On Saturday, 22 February 2020 20:47:11 UTC, T i m wrote:

We wouldn't do it to *all* trees, we would (typically) only do it to
the wood we harvest to use for ourselves.

Surely we don't want them to become extinct.

Of course not. ;-)

Take an unused mine system, pack it with chipboard, flood it with some
non-toxic liquid that effectively encapsulates the wood, stops it
decomposing and then the mines won't collapse either. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

If you take wood and compress it, and heat it, it slowly turns brown and then, eventually, black. The black stuff is then very stable over geological time. Also packs better than using non-toxic liquid...

On 22/02/2020 16:23, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 15:59:33 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

snip

Is delivery of logs in bulk like that included in the ban?

That's what I'd like to know Chris.

I think the grist is they intend to 'ban the sale of wet wood and ...
' but who Polices that?

Like, are they allowed to naturally season the timber and then sell it
to you (makes sense), or get it kiln dried (gotta cost more energy /
pollution) and then sell it to you?

If it is,
what are tree surgeons going to do with their felled timber?

Find a timber yard that has to room to season the timber in the round
(or chogs if big and handled manually)?

Not that
I care as I don't now have the facilities for burning logs, nor the
need.

I care as I have to preference to breathe as fresh an air as I can
get. ;-)

Daughter currently lives by the river and where narrow boats often
moor up. On a colder still night the air is full of the smell of
burning wood and coal. Like petrol, the 'smell' is nice (to some) but
when it's fumes are a carcinogen ... ;-(

Personally, all timber should be used as timber and for as long as
possible and / or then chopped up into chipboard and made into
something else. Once past it's final use it should then be stacked in
empty underground workings, keeping all that carbon captured. ;-)

Around 45 years back, it was suggested storing (safely) other waste in
disused underground workings. The volumes involve were far, far lower.

The tree huggers wouldn't hear of it, so much so it led in part to the
current developing energy crisis.

On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 15:59:33 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

snip
Is delivery of logs in bulk like that included in the ban?

This may help (if accurate):

"Sales of wet wood in units of under two cubic metres will be
restricted from February 2021, to allow for existing stocks to be used
up.

Wet wood sold in larger volumes will need to be sold with advice on
how to dry it before burning from this date, the government said."

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-cut-pollution

Cheers, T i m

On 22/02/2020 15:59, Chris Hogg wrote:
Is delivery of logs in bulk like that included in the ban?
Nope.


--
Theres a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On 22/02/2020 19:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 22/02/2020 15:59, Chris Hogg wrote:

Is delivery of logs in bulk like that included in the ban?

Nope.

Which means in practice that the people who depend on logs for their
heating in rural areas will be largely unaffected by the ban. I get mine
in 2-3m^3 truckloads dumped on the drive which take a while to stack.

I can't imagine anyone who uses solid fuel heating buying the stuff in
dribs and drabs from garage forecourts or supermarkets unless they have
carelessly run out and can't get a bulk delivery until the weekend. Even
then burning offcuts and any scrap wood is still he first resort.

I am a bit puzzled by the coal thing though. I thought that in cities
the smokeless fuel requirement came in with the clean air act of 1968.
So why are supermarkets still selling coal to the public at all?

We can still buy real bulk coal in rural areas. I wish I could still buy
the old smokeless fuel that I found at my parents house dating from the
1970's fuel crisis. It was an extruded 4" hexagonal section very dense
- the embers would burn for 20 hours or more in their ash blanket.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 09:24:50 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

snip

We can still buy real bulk coal in rural areas. I wish I could still buy
the old smokeless fuel that I found at my parents house dating from the
1970's fuel crisis. It was an extruded 4" hexagonal section very dense
- the embers would burn for 20 hours or more in their ash blanket.

I remember shoveling 'coal nuts' (were they called) from the coal
bunker at home as a kid.

They were much heavier than std coal and were a strange uniform oval /
lozenge shape?

Was it 'anthracite'?

This stuff would last the night in our Parkray glass fronted fire, if
the damper was closed last thing.

Cheers, T i m

In message , T i m
writes
On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 09:24:50 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

snip

We can still buy real bulk coal in rural areas. I wish I could still buy
the old smokeless fuel that I found at my parents house dating from the
1970's fuel crisis. It was an extruded 4" hexagonal section very dense
- the embers would burn for 20 hours or more in their ash blanket.

I remember shoveling 'coal nuts' (were they called) from the coal
bunker at home as a kid.

They were much heavier than std coal and were a strange uniform oval /
lozenge shape?

Was it 'anthracite'?

This stuff would last the night in our Parkray glass fronted fire, if
the damper was closed last thing.

Phurnacite? My mother burned it by the ton. No CH in the farmhouse
until storage radiators came along.

--
Tim Lamb

On 26/02/2020 10:47, T i m wrote:
They were much heavier than std coal and were a strange uniform oval /
lozenge shape?

As the other Tim says this was likely Phurnacite, a pillow briquette
made of some sort of coke dust and binder.

I visited the coal research establishment near Cheltenham as it was
being run down in the late 90s to view a pillow briquette maker in
operation, with a view to using it with charcoal dust from something we
were developing.

Two geared contra rotating large diameter wheels with half the mould in
each periphery. It was a true black art in forming the mixture such that
the cohesion after pressing exceeded the adhesion to the wheels and
gravity allowed the formed briquette to drop out.

On 26/02/2020 10:47, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2020 09:24:50 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

snip

We can still buy real bulk coal in rural areas. I wish I could still buy
the old smokeless fuel that I found at my parents house dating from the
1970's fuel crisis. It was an extruded 4" hexagonal section very dense
- the embers would burn for 20 hours or more in their ash blanket.

I remember shoveling 'coal nuts' (were they called) from the coal
bunker at home as a kid.

They were much heavier than std coal and were a strange uniform oval /
lozenge shape?

Compressed nominally desulphurised coal. Various sorts available and
still available as smokeless fuel. Some sulphur on the outside of this
stuff after 40 years in the coal bunker but it's main claim to fame was
that it came in relatively big angular chunks just like coal. It's shiny
hexagonal extruded cross section was very distinctive.

Was it 'anthracite'?

This stuff would last the night in our Parkray glass fronted fire, if
the damper was closed last thing.

Pretty close to being anthracite made form coal with the pyrites taken
out using the fines and some binder by hydraulic compaction in a mould.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Saturday, 22 February 2020 14:57:01 UTC, Michael Chare wrote:
The government wants to stop people burning would that has not dried
properly, but do many people do this anyway?



I keep my wood in a ventilated shed for two years. I then move it into the conservatory through the Summer months (which is next to the wood burner).
So my wood is as dry as it's possible to get it without heat.

Still trying to ban wet wood is a stupid idea.
Some people just pile their firewood outside.
Or they have a fancy "dog kennel".

Well somebody near me obviously burns every cruddy thing they can find,
judging by the smell. Who is going to police it? After all they do sod all
when the diddies set fire to a pile of pvc cables to get the copper out, and
that is poisonous!
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
The government wants to stop people burning would that has not dried
properly, but do many people do this anyway?


--
Michael Chare

On 23/02/2020 08:44, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
Well somebody near me obviously burns every cruddy thing they can find,
judging by the smell. Who is going to police it? After all they do sod all
when the diddies set fire to a pile of pvc cables to get the copper out, and
that is poisonous!

You are more likely to see enforcement against the people committing
"hate crimes" against the aforementioned scumbags by calling them
"diddies" :-))


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 22/02/2020 16:56, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 14:56:58 +0000, Michael Chare wrote:

The government wants to stop people burning would that has not dried
properly, but do many people do this anyway?

Given the aromas that waft around here when wood burners are going, I
think MDF and melamine are used a lot.


And the rest. Plenty of clueless or couldn't-care types burn
just about any old crap and not just wood.

Andrew posted
On 22/02/2020 16:56, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 14:56:58 +0000, Michael Chare wrote:

The government wants to stop people burning would that has not dried
properly, but do many people do this anyway?
Given the aromas that waft around here when wood burners are going,

think MDF and melamine are used a lot.


And the rest. Plenty of clueless or couldn't-care types burn
just about any old crap and not just wood.

Yes, but they don't *buy* it. So restrictions on what is sold won't make
any difference to that practice.

--
Max