Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 13:56:24 -0000, Grumps wrote:

So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

A 13A socket can supply 3.2kW, near enough.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

It's your house, do as you wish. Just put the right fuses in the right places, it's not rocket science.

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

In article ,
Grumps wrote:
Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

In terms of regs, no. (IMHO) In practice likely OK.

But would it really be that much more difficult to run a proper radial
from your CU?

--
*Toilet stolen from police station. Cops have nothing to go on.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 13:56:24 +0000, Grumps wrote:

So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

What about a 32 amp Commando socket?
https://www.mkelectric.com/en-GB/Pro...s/default.aspx

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 13:56, Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

I'd use a 25A MCB

Of course its ok. Cookers are run this way.

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.



--
"Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
higher education positively fortifies it."

- Stephen Vizinczey

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 14:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/01/2020 13:56, Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket
on a radial from the CU?

I'd use a 25A MCB

Of course its ok. Cookers are run this way.

And the use of a Schuko socket is OK too?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 14:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Grumps wrote:
Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

In terms of regs, no. (IMHO) In practice likely OK.

But would it really be that much more difficult to run a proper radial
from your CU?

Which bit if the regs says you can't have a Schuko?
What do you mean by a "proper radial"?
Ta.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On Monday, 27 January 2020 13:56:27 UTC, Grumps wrote:
Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

16A 'commando' would be better, as you're likely to find them elsewhere too (caravan sites mainly).

And if it's exterior, weatherproof versions more readily available in UK.

Owain

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 13:56, Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes live once
it is plugged-in to the car. Charge points contain a protocol controller
to handle comms with the car and to enable a contactor once safe so to
do, they also have an RCD. Finally, they're supposed to be TT'd to
ensure that supply and car ground potentials are similar. It's probably
cheaper to buy a charge point (currently about £135 on fleabay) than
building one yourself.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 15:19, wrote:
On 27/01/2020 13:56, Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket
on a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes live once
it is plugged-in to the car. Charge points contain a protocol controller
to handle comms with the car and to enable a contactor once safe so to
do, they also have an RCD. Finally, they're supposed to be TT'd to
ensure that supply and car ground potentials are similar. It's probably
cheaper to buy a charge point (currently about £135 on fleabay) than
building one yourself.
Hmmm, I take that last bit back. The so-called charge point for £133
seems to be just a box with a 13A socket and an RCD in it. However,
there's currently a second-hand Rolec for £199.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 15:19, wrote:
On 27/01/2020 13:56, Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket
on a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes live once
it is plugged-in to the car. Charge points contain a protocol controller
to handle comms with the car and to enable a contactor once safe so to
do, they also have an RCD. Finally, they're supposed to be TT'd to
ensure that supply and car ground potentials are similar. It's probably
cheaper to buy a charge point (currently about £135 on fleabay) than
building one yourself.

I was thinking of getting something similar to this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/K-H-N-S-Cha.../dp/B07SSX23P1
It's just a higher powered version of the one that came with the car,
but needs more amps in! Hence the Q about using Schuko (which this unit
comes with).
I assume it has the "logic" that keeps the cable safe until it's
properly connected to the car charge port.

The only one I saw for that price on eBay was just a 13A 3-pin socket.
But then, I'm not the best at searching anywhere.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 15:30, Grumps wrote:
On 27/01/2020 15:19, wrote:
On 27/01/2020 13:56, Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to
charge using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied
charging unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board
charger can accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a
beefier mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket
on a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes live
once it is plugged-in to the car. Charge points contain a protocol
controller to handle comms with the car and to enable a contactor once
safe so to do, they also have an RCD. Finally, they're supposed to be
TT'd to ensure that supply and car ground potentials are similar. It's
probably cheaper to buy a charge point (currently about £135 on
fleabay) than building one yourself.

I was thinking of getting something similar to this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/K-H-N-S-Cha.../dp/B07SSX23P1
It's just a higher powered version of the one that came with the car,
but needs more amps in! Hence the Q about using Schuko (which this unit
comes with).
I assume it has the "logic" that keeps the cable safe until it's
properly connected to the car charge port.

The only one I saw for that price on eBay was just a 13A 3-pin socket.
But then, I'm not the best at searching anywhere.

Aha, understood. As others have said, I doubt that you will find many
(waterproof?) Schuko outlets on the highways and byways; didn't the Leaf
come with a dedicated charging cable that connects to a charge point? My
M-B PHEV has both a 13A charging box (unused) and a cable.

I was wrong about the charge point I mentioned earlier, but there was
also a proper one listed for £200 when I looked earlier.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

As long as the cable does not cross a footway and remains in your own
premises, ie if you have a garage or hard standing, I'd imagine you can use
what you like. Obviously it has to be safe for visitors etc, ie coming out
of a window and snaking across in front of the door might be an issue if the
postman breaks his leg and sues!

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Grumps" wrote in message ...
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can accept
up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on a
radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not the
cheapest option.
TIA.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 15:47, wrote:
On 27/01/2020 15:30, Grumps wrote:
On 27/01/2020 15:19, wrote:
On 27/01/2020 13:56, Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to
charge using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied
charging unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board
charger can accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a
beefier mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket
on a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's
not the cheapest option.
TIA.

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes live
once it is plugged-in to the car. Charge points contain a protocol
controller to handle comms with the car and to enable a contactor
once safe so to do, they also have an RCD. Finally, they're supposed
to be TT'd to ensure that supply and car ground potentials are
similar. It's probably cheaper to buy a charge point (currently about
£135 on fleabay) than building one yourself.

I was thinking of getting something similar to this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/K-H-N-S-Cha.../dp/B07SSX23P1
It's just a higher powered version of the one that came with the car,
but needs more amps in! Hence the Q about using Schuko (which this
unit comes with).
I assume it has the "logic" that keeps the cable safe until it's
properly connected to the car charge port.

The only one I saw for that price on eBay was just a 13A 3-pin socket.
But then, I'm not the best at searching anywhere.

Aha, understood. As others have said, I doubt that you will find many
(waterproof?) Schuko outlets on the highways and byways;

Oh, it doesn't have to be waterproof. It'll be going in a garage.

didn't the Leaf
come with a dedicated charging cable that connects to a charge point?

Yes. A charging box with 3-pin plug (which charges at about 10A), and
the cable (type2 to type1 in my case).

My
M-B PHEV has both a 13A charging box (unused) and a cable.

I was wrong about the charge point I mentioned earlier, but there was
also a proper one listed for £200 when I looked earlier.

I saw that, thanks.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 15:56, Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote:
As long as the cable does not cross a footway and remains in your own
premises, ie if you have a garage or hard standing, I'd imagine you can use
what you like. Obviously it has to be safe for visitors etc, ie coming out
of a window and snaking across in front of the door might be an issue if the
postman breaks his leg and sues!

Brian

If the postie trips over the cable, he shouldn't be in my garage!

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 15:19, wrote:

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes live once
it is plugged-in to the car. Charge points contain a protocol controller
to handle comms with the car and to enable a contactor once safe so to
do, they also have an RCD. Finally, they're supposed to be TT'd to
ensure that supply and car ground potentials are similar.

More specifically they have a type A RCD.

TT is not always a requirement. However when it is you often have to TT
more than the car charger.


--
Adam

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

Grumps wrote:

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.

The schuko straight off the CU, by itself wouldn't give you proper
earthing for an EV.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 16:58, ARW wrote:
On 27/01/2020 15:19, wrote:

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes live
once it is plugged-in to the car. Charge points contain a protocol
controller to handle comms with the car and to enable a contactor once
safe so to do, they also have an RCD. Finally, they're supposed to be
TT'd to ensure that supply and car ground potentials are similar.

More specifically they have a type A RCD.

TT is not always a requirement. However when it is you often have to TT
more than the car charger.


I don't see how that lines-up with 722.411.4, which says (paraphrasing)
that a PME earth SHALL not be used for an outdoor vehicle charging
point, with a few exceptions that would not normally apply.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 18:32, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote:

Grumps wrote:

This would need a different EVSE

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes live
once it is plugged-in to the car.

That's what the EVSE does.
A fair cop - initially I thought he wanted to just connect the car to
the mains using a straight cable, without any interlock.
Note to self: RTFQ.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

In article ,
writes
On 27/01/2020 13:56, Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to
charge using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied
charging unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board
charger can accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a
beefier mains socket.
Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket
on a radial from the CU?
I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's
not the cheapest option.
TIA.

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes live
once it is plugged-in to the car.
That's interesting as they don't have such safety devices on caravan
sites.
Snip
--
bert

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

Unless you use a different charging cable youll still be limited to 10
amps. Big Clive did a teardown of one recently explaining a bit about how
they work.

https://youtu.be/DAij_wWeZiY

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

Tim+ wrote:

Big Clive did a teardown of one recently explaining a bit about how
they work.

Mike's Electric Stuff has probably done better EVSE teardowns than Clive
in this instance

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

Andy Burns wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

Big Clive did a teardown of one recently explaining a bit about how
they work.

Mike's Electric Stuff has probably done better EVSE teardowns than Clive
in this instance

But at least I offered a link... ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

Tim+ wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Mike's Electric Stuff has probably done better EVSE teardowns than Clive
in this instance

But at least I offered a link... ;-)

The most recent three videos on his teardowns playlist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O58KT117crs&list=PL0KZLmPyL6AnVxyvFZRKGsIf cpQlHx0xH

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 20:21, Tim+ wrote:
Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

Unless you use a different charging cable youll still be limited to 10
amps. Big Clive did a teardown of one recently explaining a bit about how
they work.

https://youtu.be/DAij_wWeZiY

Tim

Yeah, I have my eye on a different charging cable which will do up to 16A.
Thanks for the link.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 19:55:27 +0000, bert wrote:

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes
live
once it is plugged-in to the car.

That's interesting as they don't have such safety devices on caravan
sites.

Yeah, I was wondering about all this nanny interlocking. I guess it's
because a car charging the cable is most likely will be left
coonected all the time and just dumped on the floor in all weathers.
People are lazy, coiling up to store neatly or put in the car just
ain't going to happen, particulary in the wet and when they'll only
be uncoiling it a few hours later on their return. A caravan power
cable will travel with the van.

Can't see why the car has to talk to the supply point. Easy enough to
have a "no load" switch that isolates the cable under no load
conditions and a button to set it when the cable is connected. Car
needs to know how much opwer is available? If power is on this pin -
x kW, that pin - y kW both pins z kW. Simples. No need to have some
electronics always on consuming power...

--
Cheers
Dave.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 21:39, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 19:55:27 +0000, bert wrote:

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes
live
once it is plugged-in to the car.

That's interesting as they don't have such safety devices on caravan
sites.

Yeah, I was wondering about all this nanny interlocking. I guess it's
because a car charging the cable is most likely will be left
coonected all the time and just dumped on the floor in all weathers.
People are lazy, coiling up to store neatly or put in the car just
ain't going to happen, particulary in the wet and when they'll only
be uncoiling it a few hours later on their return. A caravan power
cable will travel with the van.

When used with a motorhome, it could be unplugged and left in a puddle
or on wet grass, in the rain, each day.

Can't see why the car has to talk to the supply point. Easy enough to
have a "no load" switch that isolates the cable under no load
conditions and a button to set it when the cable is connected. Car
needs to know how much opwer is available? If power is on this pin -
x kW, that pin - y kW both pins z kW. Simples. No need to have some
electronics always on consuming power...

Yes, nice and simple.

SteveW

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

bert wrote:
In article ,
writes
On 27/01/2020 13:56, Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to
charge using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied
charging unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board
charger can accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a
beefier mains socket.
Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket
on a radial from the CU?
I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's
not the cheapest option.
TIA.

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes live
once it is plugged-in to the car.
That's interesting as they don't have such safety devices on caravan
sites.
Snip

Some do, at least in the UK. Some of the newer sites have outlets on the
bollards which require you to twist the plug after inserting it and to
press a button to release it.

They confuse overseas visitors and those whove not seen them before - they
try another socket, then start asking €˜neighbours if their power works
etc.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

Dave Liquorice wrote:

bert wrote:

they don't have such safety devices on caravan sites.

Not many caravans can take 43kW

Can't see why the car has to talk to the supply point

AFAIK there's not much signalling from car-EVSE just a resistor divider
to let the car say it's connected and ready, or it's charging, or
there's an error. Also a diode so the EVSE can't be fooled by a short on
the signalling pin.

Signalling from EVSE-car is a 1kHz tone, where the duty ratio says how
many amps it's able to provide.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 21:39, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 19:55:27 +0000, bert wrote:

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes
live
once it is plugged-in to the car.

That's interesting as they don't have such safety devices on caravan
sites.

Yeah, I was wondering about all this nanny interlocking.
Pretty sure the IET regs have a prohibition on unshuttered sockets in a
domestic setting.

Commando with an interlocked isolator would technically be a departure
but at least trivial to justify.

That's my understanding anyway - could be wrong and welcome correction.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

In article ,
Grumps wrote:
On 27/01/2020 14:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Grumps wrote:
Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

In terms of regs, no. (IMHO) In practice likely OK.

But would it really be that much more difficult to run a proper radial
from your CU?

Which bit if the regs says you can't have a Schuko?
What do you mean by a "proper radial"?

Ah - sorry, brain fart. Read it as if you were going to spur it off a ring.

--
*Why do they put Braille on the drive-through bank machines?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 19:18, wrote:
On 27/01/2020 16:58, ARW wrote:
On 27/01/2020 15:19, wrote:

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes live
once it is plugged-in to the car. Charge points contain a protocol
controller to handle comms with the car and to enable a contactor
once safe so to do, they also have an RCD. Finally, they're supposed
to be TT'd to ensure that supply and car ground potentials are similar.

More specifically they have a type A RCD.

TT is not always a requirement. However when it is you often have to
TT more than the car charger.


I don't see how that lines-up with 722.411.4, which says (paraphrasing)
that a PME earth SHALL not be used for an outdoor vehicle charging
point, with a few exceptions that would not normally apply.

It's a while since I did the installation course and I have only fitted
one charging point since I went on it.

Actually the NICEIC bloke said to treat both TNS and TNC-S as the same
thing as the UK's electrical infrastructure is ****.

I believe that you are correct and "most if not all" of PME outdoor
installs required a TT installation. The big problem was that you also
had to TT any other circuits that you might be able to touch whilst
touching the car. You were then given a picture of a bloke with long
arms that could touch his car and then his outside lights, electric
gates or outside socket (not all at the same time he did not have 3 arms).

If I can find the installation book I'll quite happily scan it for you
and then the next time I have to install a car charging point (Christ
knows when) or the subject appears on the newsgroup you can look the
info up for me and send me the details whilst I am down the pub having a
pint:-)

Seriously, I will have to read that installation book again and if you
do want a copy I'll do one for you when I have time.

--
Adam

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 28/01/2020 17:43, ARW wrote:
On 27/01/2020 19:18, wrote:
On 27/01/2020 16:58, ARW wrote:
On 27/01/2020 15:19, wrote:

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes live
once it is plugged-in to the car. Charge points contain a protocol
controller to handle comms with the car and to enable a contactor
once safe so to do, they also have an RCD. Finally, they're supposed
to be TT'd to ensure that supply and car ground potentials are similar.

More specifically they have a type A RCD.

TT is not always a requirement. However when it is you often have to
TT more than the car charger.


I don't see how that lines-up with 722.411.4, which says
(paraphrasing) that a PME earth SHALL not be used for an outdoor
vehicle charging point, with a few exceptions that would not normally
apply.

It's a while since I did the installation course and I have only fitted
one charging point since I went on it.

Actually the NICEIC bloke said to treat both TNS and TNC-S as the same
thing as the UK's electrical infrastructure is ****.

I believe that you are correct and "most if not all" of PME outdoor
installs required a TT installation. The big problem was that you also
had to TT any other circuits that you might be able to touch whilst
touching the car. You were then given a picture of a bloke with long
arms that could touch his car and then his outside lights

Use a double insulated light?

electric gates

Make the drive and sensors transformer isolated 24V?

or outside socket (not all at the same time he did not have 3 arms).

At least that can be moved to another location that even Mr. Tickle
can't reach :)

SteveW

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 28/01/2020 08:48, Tim Watts wrote:

On 27/01/2020 21:39, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 19:55:27 +0000, bert wrote:

You need a safety interlock to ensure that the cable only goes
live
once it is plugged-in to the car.

That's interesting as they don't have such safety devices on caravan
sites.

Yeah, I was wondering about all this nanny interlocking.

Pretty sure the IET regs have a prohibition on unshuttered sockets in a
domestic setting.

They do, although you can get shuttered Schuko style sockets.

Commando with an interlocked isolator would technically be a departure
but at least trivial to justify.

There is a commando where the isolation is included in the socket - such
that you can't energise it until the plug is in.

(quite pricey though)



--
Cheers,

John.

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Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 18:30, Andy Burns wrote:
Grumps wrote:

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket
on a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.

The schuko straight off the CU, by itself wouldn't give you proper
earthing for an EV.

In a garage, its arguable you could skip making it TT. The charge lead
will often include the type A RCD.


--
Cheers,

John.

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Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 21:08, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Mike's Electric Stuff has probably done better EVSE teardowns than Clive
in this instance

But at least I offered a link... ;-)

The most recent three videos on his teardowns playlist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O58KT117crs&list=PL0KZLmPyL6AnVxyvFZRKGsIf cpQlHx0xH

And the 8 bit guy did quite a good summary of all the various variations
of charge connector and charging options in use :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcoLCTkM0ys

(although with a US centric perspective)


--
Cheers,

John.

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Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 27/01/2020 21:12, Grumps wrote:
On 27/01/2020 20:21, Tim+ wrote:
Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

Unless you use a different charging cable youll still be limited to 10
amps. Big Clive did a teardown of one recently explaining a bit about how
they work.

https://youtu.be/DAij_wWeZiY

Tim

Yeah, I have my eye on a different charging cable which will do up to 16A.
Thanks for the link.

Would it not make more sense to hard wire in a proper 32A style charger?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
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\================================================= ================/

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On Monday, 27 January 2020 13:56:27 UTC, Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

Not sure if this is 100% relevant but may be of interest - David Savery doing a Tesla chrging point install: https://youtu.be/qQ4OSUusPOk

Using a 16A Schuko socket
 

On 29/01/2020 01:18, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/01/2020 21:12, Grumps wrote:
On 27/01/2020 20:21, Tim+ wrote:
Grumps wrote:
So, I have an EV (Leaf) which would benefit from the ability to charge
using more than a 13Amp socket can supply. The supplied charging
unit/cable limits to about 10A, but the car's on board charger can
accept up to 3.3kW (some say 3.6kW).
This would need a different EVSE than the supplied unit, AND a beefier
mains socket.

Is it OK, in terms of building regs etc, to have a Schuko 16A socket on
a radial from the CU?

I know I can get a proper home charge point installed, but that's not
the cheapest option.
TIA.

Unless you use a different charging cable youll still be limited to 10
amps. Big Clive did a teardown of one recently explaining a bit about
how
they work.

https://youtu.be/DAij_wWeZiY

Tim

Yeah, I have my eye on a different charging cable which will do up to
16A.
Thanks for the link.

Would it not make more sense to hard wire in a proper 32A style charger?

Yes, but...
The car is a company car and as yet they haven't decided if providing me
with a home charging point is something they want to pay for. Charging
at work is provided - free.
The car only has a 3.3kW on-board charger (excluding the quick charge
option) for connection to 230Vac. The supplied EVSE charge cable is
limited to 10Amps, 2.2-2.4kW.
But if I get a 16Amp EVSE, then that could be considered as an accessory
for the car, and the company would then pay. Only £100-£150. And I don't
mind stumping up a few pounds for a Schuko in the garage.