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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant
stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike |
#2
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On Sunday, 26 January 2020 11:45:56 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote:
I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti... de_potentials |
#3
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 03:52:27 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote: On Sunday, 26 January 2020 11:45:56 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti... de_potentials So, if the Al is Aluminium and the Zn is Zinc this means they are quite close and less reactive? ....Al H( water) Mn Zn ... -- Mike |
#4
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On 26/01/2020 12:00, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 03:52:27 -0800 (PST), harry wrote: On Sunday, 26 January 2020 11:45:56 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti... de_potentials So, if the Al is Aluminium and the Zn is Zinc this means they are quite close and less reactive? ...Al H( water) Mn Zn ... IIRC aluminium and zinc are not too bad, helped by the fact that the oxide on aluminium can be a fairly effective insulator. Thinking about it, TV aerials often have zinc plated clamps on aluminium tubes. I was going to suggest that soft spacers are good if there is any small amplitude motion (because the rubbing can remove oxides and promote electrical contact) but the evidence of TV aerials, exposed to wind, suggests you might not need to worry. |
#5
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:25:43 +0000, newshound
wrote: On 26/01/2020 12:00, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 03:52:27 -0800 (PST), harry wrote: On Sunday, 26 January 2020 11:45:56 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti... de_potentials So, if the Al is Aluminium and the Zn is Zinc this means they are quite close and less reactive? ...Al H( water) Mn Zn ... IIRC aluminium and zinc are not too bad, helped by the fact that the oxide on aluminium can be a fairly effective insulator. Thinking about it, TV aerials often have zinc plated clamps on aluminium tubes. I was going to suggest that soft spacers are good if there is any small amplitude motion (because the rubbing can remove oxides and promote electrical contact) but the evidence of TV aerials, exposed to wind, suggests you might not need to worry. Very good points, though as you suggested earlier pvc or shrink wrap at the contact point would also reduce rubbing damage. -- Mike |
#7
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:34:49 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote: I wonder what his table or shelf is going to be made out of though? Brian I was thinking wood to match my head, though a chunky plastic plank would be even better, except perhaps for the cost. -- Mike |
#8
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On 26/01/2020 12:00, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 03:52:27 -0800 (PST), harry wrote: On Sunday, 26 January 2020 11:45:56 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti... de_potentials So, if the Al is Aluminium and the Zn is Zinc this means they are quite close and less reactive? ...Al H( water) Mn Zn ... Aluminium is actually quite strange stuff. It would be insanely reactive if it were not protected by a self healing thin aluminium oxide surface layer. It used to be a trick to put a spec of mercury on a sheet of aluminium and watch it crumble to white dust overnight. Powder coating, shrink wrap or some other plastic inserts to keep the two metals from direct contact would be one way out. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
#9
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On 26/01/2020 13:09, Martin Brown wrote:
Powder coating, shrink wrap or some other plastic inserts to keep the two metals from direct contact would be one way out. What about the fixings? Bill |
#10
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On 26/01/2020 16:24, williamwright wrote:
On 26/01/2020 13:09, Martin Brown wrote: Powder coating, shrink wrap or some other plastic inserts to keep the two metals from direct contact would be one way out. What about the fixings? Bill What fixings? You would use a clamp, rather than risk weakening the rail by drilling it for a bolt. |
#11
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On Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:00:51 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 03:52:27 -0800 (PST), harry wrote: On Sunday, 26 January 2020 11:45:56 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti... de_potentials So, if the Al is Aluminium and the Zn is Zinc this means they are quite close and less reactive? ...Al H( water) Mn Zn ... -- Exactly so. |
#12
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 06:36:13 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote: On Sunday, 26 January 2020 12:00:51 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 03:52:27 -0800 (PST), harry wrote: On Sunday, 26 January 2020 11:45:56 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti... de_potentials So, if the Al is Aluminium and the Zn is Zinc this means they are quite close and less reactive? ...Al H( water) Mn Zn ... -- Exactly so. Ta Harry. -- Mike |
#13
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On 26/01/2020 11:52, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 26 January 2020 11:45:56 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti... de_potentials But not if they are insulated. The simplest solution might be to use something like heat shrink, PVC tube, or even a tight wrapping of PVC tape over the potential contact points. |
#14
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:03:01 +0000, newshound
wrote: On 26/01/2020 11:52, harry wrote: On Sunday, 26 January 2020 11:45:56 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti... de_potentials But not if they are insulated. The simplest solution might be to use something like heat shrink, PVC tube, or even a tight wrapping of PVC tape over the potential contact points. Inspiring, thanks. -- Mike |
#15
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Why not look in the Builders Metalwork section of Screwfix plenty of galvanised brackets, gallows brackets and restraint straps that might do. They may not be particularly aesthetic but if out of sight will certainly do the job for you.
Richard |
#16
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 04:26:40 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
wrote: Why not look in the Builders Metalwork section of Screwfix plenty of galvanised brackets, gallows brackets and restraint straps that might do. They may not be particularly aesthetic but if out of sight will certainly do the job for you. Richard Good idea. I'll have a look. -- Mike |
#17
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:08:54 +0000, Mike Halmarack wrote:
But not if they are insulated. The simplest solution might be to use something like heat shrink, PVC tube, or even a tight wrapping of PVC tape over the potential contact points. Inspiring, thanks. That's what I would do with something non-conductive and relatively soft, if only to protect the balustrade from damage. -- Cheers Dave. |
#18
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Another thought, how robust is the balustrade if the force is inwards toward
the balcony? Also, plants can be very heavy and lets hope you hang the fixings on the structural part of the balustrade, since I've seen the vertical wrght iron parts of railings come adrift when small children swing on them due, no doubt to poor top fixing strength. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "newshound" wrote in message o.uk... On 26/01/2020 11:52, harry wrote: On Sunday, 26 January 2020 11:45:56 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti... de_potentials But not if they are insulated. The simplest solution might be to use something like heat shrink, PVC tube, or even a tight wrapping of PVC tape over the potential contact points. |
#19
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:38:26 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote: Another thought, how robust is the balustrade if the force is inwards toward the balcony? Also, plants can be very heavy and lets hope you hang the fixings on the structural part of the balustrade, since I've seen the vertical wrght iron parts of railings come adrift when small children swing on them due, no doubt to poor top fixing strength. Brian It's pretty robust in itself thought the mooring points may benefit from some extra help. -- Mike |
#20
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:33:25 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 03:52:27 -0800 (PST), harry wrote: On Sunday, 26 January 2020 11:45:56 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti... de_potentials From school chemistry of sixty years ago: Kate Now Can Make All Zebras File Slowly Past Her Clucking Hens After All Potassium, Sodium (Na), Calcium, Magnesium, Aluminium, Zinc, Iron (Fe), Tin (Sn), Lead (Pb), Hydrogen, Copper (Cu), Mercury (Hg), Silver (Ag), gold (Au). The earlier ones in the sequence dissolve before the later ones. It's extraordinary how these meaningless phrases stick in the mind, even after all this time. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvan...alvanic_series Education is a wonderful thing. -- Mike |
#21
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On 26/01/2020 12:33, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 03:52:27 -0800 (PST), harry wrote: On Sunday, 26 January 2020 11:45:56 UTC, Mike Halmarack wrote: I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reacti... de_potentials From school chemistry of sixty years ago: Kate Now Can Make All Zebras File Slowly Past Her Clucking Hens After All Potassium, Sodium (Na), Calcium, Magnesium, Aluminium, Zinc, Iron (Fe), Tin (Sn), Lead (Pb), Hydrogen, Copper (Cu), Mercury (Hg), Silver (Ag), gold (Au). The earlier ones in the sequence dissolve before the later ones. It's extraordinary how these meaningless phrases stick in the mind, even after all this time. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvan...alvanic_series Please Send Charlie McLean A Zebra If The Lean Hen Can't Munch Pure Sweet Grass. (Includes Platinum). |
#22
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:33:25 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 03:52:27 -0800 (PST), harry wrote: ====snip==== The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Reactivity_series#Comparison_with_standard_electro de_potentials From school chemistry of sixty years ago: Kate Now Can Make All Zebras File Slowly Past Her Clucking Hens After All Potassium, Sodium (Na), Calcium, Magnesium, Aluminium, Zinc, Iron (Fe), Tin (Sn), Lead (Pb), Hydrogen, Copper (Cu), Mercury (Hg), Silver (Ag), gold (Au). The earlier ones in the sequence dissolve before the later ones. It's extraordinary how these meaningless phrases stick in the mind, even after all this time. That's the whole point - they're meant to be easier to remember mnemonics. I taught myself the resistor colour code during my very early teens (perhaps just before - it WAS a long time ago now) by simply using the actual colour sequence of "Black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, grey, white." for the 0 to 9 digit sequence. It was only a decade or so later that I was taught the (NOW!) non PC mnemonic[1] of: "Black boys rape our young girls but virgins go without." which I was only able to recall with the aid of the (by then) well ingrained colour sequence I'd taught myself years earlier - I was using actual knowledge of the colour code as an aid to remembering a mnemonic intended as an aide mémoire for recalling the colour code sequence! These days, after over half a century, I'm glad I bothered to learn that non PC mnemonic since it provided a sanity check for my recollection of the colour code sequence when I resumed my interest in DIY electronics projects nearly two years ago after a quarter of a century break - "Use it or lose it!" is ever so applicable in this case. Another phrase I can't forget (I don't think this is a mnemonic so much as a reminder to be careful) is the "Electrician's Litany" of: "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, positive to negative, **** or bust!" that I heard one of our EL&P engineers utter. I'd heard it perhaps just two or three times but an amusing enough 'ditty' for me to take the trouble to remember it - I was more easily amused back then. [1] I'd heard or read of other less non PC colour code mnemonics since then but one mnemonic was all I needed or ever wanted. Any others would have just confused things and be counterproductive to their intended purpose. I've room in my head for only so many 'handy mnemonics'. It seems the phrase, "Less is More" does after all, contain a universal truth beyond that of its general perception as being just an artsy fartsy type's platitude so oft abused by the advertising industry. :-) -- Johnny B Good |
#23
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On Sunday, 26 January 2020 17:37:29 UTC, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:33:25 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote: On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 03:52:27 -0800 (PST), harry wrote: ====snip==== The activity series. The further they are apart, the faster any reaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Reactivity_series#Comparison_with_standard_electro de_potentials From school chemistry of sixty years ago: Kate Now Can Make All Zebras File Slowly Past Her Clucking Hens After All Potassium, Sodium (Na), Calcium, Magnesium, Aluminium, Zinc, Iron (Fe), Tin (Sn), Lead (Pb), Hydrogen, Copper (Cu), Mercury (Hg), Silver (Ag), gold (Au). The earlier ones in the sequence dissolve before the later ones. It's extraordinary how these meaningless phrases stick in the mind, even after all this time. That's the whole point - they're meant to be easier to remember mnemonics. I taught myself the resistor colour code during my very early teens (perhaps just before - it WAS a long time ago now) by simply using the actual colour sequence of "Black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, grey, white." for the 0 to 9 digit sequence. It was only a decade or so later that I was taught the (NOW!) non PC mnemonic[1] of: "Black boys rape our young girls but virgins go without." which I was only able to recall with the aid of the (by then) well ingrained colour sequence I'd taught myself years earlier - I was using actual knowledge of the colour code as an aid to remembering a mnemonic intended as an aide mémoire for recalling the colour code sequence! These days, after over half a century, I'm glad I bothered to learn that non PC mnemonic since it provided a sanity check for my recollection of the colour code sequence when I resumed my interest in DIY electronics projects nearly two years ago after a quarter of a century break - "Use it or lose it!" is ever so applicable in this case. Another phrase I can't forget (I don't think this is a mnemonic so much as a reminder to be careful) is the "Electrician's Litany" of: "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, positive to negative, **** or bust!" that I heard one of our EL&P engineers utter. I'd heard it perhaps just two or three times but an amusing enough 'ditty' for me to take the trouble to remember it - I was more easily amused back then. [1] I'd heard or read of other less non PC colour code mnemonics since then but one mnemonic was all I needed or ever wanted. Any others would have just confused things and be counterproductive to their intended purpose. Resistor colours. Richard Of York Gave Battle In Vain |
#24
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I'd not say so, it really depends on the construction. I have seen this done
in outside shop displays with no apparent issues other than the usual oxidisation of each material due to being unprotected. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Mike Halmarack" wrote in message ... I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? -- Mike |
#25
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 12:31:29 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
wrote: I'd not say so, it really depends on the construction. I have seen this done in outside shop displays with no apparent issues other than the usual oxidisation of each material due to being unprotected. Brian Yes oxidisation will be an issue over time. I'd prefer to use stainless steel but it's costlt and harder to work. -- Mike |
#26
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![]() "Mike Halmarack" wrote in message ... I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? I do have that situation with all my patio door as there is a steel RHS vertical on each side of each door and another at the top. Works fine for coming up to 50 years now, but the aluminium is anodised and the steel is painted. |
#27
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On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 01:39:21 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote: "Mike Halmarack" wrote in message .. . I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? I do have that situation with all my patio door as there is a steel RHS vertical on each side of each door and another at the top. Works fine for coming up to 50 years now, but the aluminium is anodised and the steel is painted. No harm in providing some kind of buffer, even if the reactivity is quite low, though the longevity of your doors are quite reassuring. -- Mike |
#28
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On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 01:39:21 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: FLUSH senile asshole's troll**** 01:39??? And you are up and trolling ALREADY??? Yet AGAIN??? Like EVERY NIGHT, you miserable lonesome sleepless senile pest? LOL -- about senile Rot Speed: "This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage." MID: |
#29
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In article , Mike Halmarack
writes I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? Speaking from Land Rover Defender experience then if they are galvanised then no and if not galvanised then yes. If you want to be doubly sure then you can get a paste to smear on the contacting surfaces as used in the aircraft industry. I have a tube somewhere in one of my many tins of useful stuff in the garage. -- bert |
#30
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 15:04:42 +0000, bert wrote:
In article , Mike Halmarack writes I'm planning to hang a balcony wide board for use as a table or plant stand. I'd probably find it easiest to cut and shape the hangers from aluminium. These would hang on the inside of the balcony's balustrade which is made from galvanised iron or steel. Would these dissimilar metals suffer any adverse reaction when in long term contact with each other? Speaking from Land Rover Defender experience then if they are galvanised then no and if not galvanised then yes. If you want to be doubly sure then you can get a paste to smear on the contacting surfaces as used in the aircraft industry. I have a tube somewhere in one of my many tins of useful stuff in the garage. It's possible that it could be both yes and no if the hanger starts to rub away the galvanising. I'll check out the paste. Thanks. |
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