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Default inductive?

Andy Burns wrote:
Clive Arthur wrote:

Instead of LEDs use phosphors which are illuminated by ultra-violet
lasers.Â* The lasers are fixed and only illuminate the phosphors when
they're in gate-closed position. Can't see the problem.


Just coat the gate with radium paint ... simples


What about reflective strip on the gate and a light from a fixed location
that illuminates the strip? What is the primary purpose of illuminating the
gate with leds? Is it to make it visible to people approaching it, or for
the lights on the gate to illuminate the surrounding area?

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Brian Gaff (Sofa 2) wrote

No.
I don't think one could do this in any efficient way.


Doesn’t need to be efficient with that power level.

I'd have thought some kind of simple mating connection would work fine at
a low voltage.


But with your island so soggy, even corrosion might well be tricky.

If you want them on when the gate is open but its only open for a while
then one could use a UPS on the gate with the connection connecting the
charging.


To do power transfer well seems to require HF AC at quite a high current
from what I recall. Looking at the inductive chargers for smart phones
they do seem to have a lot of electronics involved in the detection of the
tuned reception system as well.


But that wouldn’t be necessary when its just a led light.
The solar powered led lights are very simple electronically
and I can't see why the solar cell(s) cant be replaced by
the wireless power source.

The question is, is the use case worth the hassle of building something
big enough.


Yeah, I'd go for a flexible power cable at
the gate hinge end myself. They obviously
work well enough with car doors etc. Tho
that it may be not as convenient to wire up
as at the opening end of the gate for his place.

Note crosspost removed to satisfy Albersani server


Another good reason to pay peanuts for a much better server, nin.

I've restored the original list.

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
I want to put some LED lights on my sliding gate. I wondered if I could
power them inductively, with a power 'transmitter' fixed to the gatepost
and a power 'receiver' on the gate, positioned so when the gate's shut
they
are close together and the LEDs come on. The power requirement of the
lights is 24W at 12VDC. The positional accuracy of the gate is good.

Bill




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On 24/11/2019 10:14, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:

I still think slidingÂ* contacts would beÂ* allot more efficient and
less of a
hassle to weather proof.


You might be right, but that's not what bill asked for.


Well, I've got an open mind. Sliding contacts would be a nice simple
solution. The positional accuracy of the gate is very good near the
wheels, so it might be possible to do something. Trouble is, if I
mounted something low down it would probably get mucky and wet.

Bill
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 04:58:18 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Same idea
https://www.mouser.co.uk/new/wurth-e...velopment-kit/


A FAQ suggests that the MAXIMUM spacing between coils is 10mm

? and damage may occur when there is no load so when the coils are
not aligned (maybe even by a small amount) when the gate is moving the
whole system may have to be instantly switched off.


That¢s a lot more power than he needs tho.


LOL You disagree again, you auto-contradicting senile pest?

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Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote

I still think sliding contacts would be allot more efficient


But you don’t need efficiency at that power level,
particularly when it charges a batter on the gate itself.

and less of a hassle to weather proof.


imo it’s the reverse, much easier to waterproof inductive.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Bill Wright wrote:

I want to put some LED lights on my sliding gate. I wondered if I could
power them inductively, with a power 'transmitter' fixed to the gatepost
and a power 'receiver' on the gate, positioned so when the gate's shut
they are close together and the LEDs come on. The power requirement of
the lights is 24W at 12VDC. The positional accuracy of the gate is good.


You can buy 'commodity' induction coils in the 5W to 10W range that are
intended for phone charging, rather than running the LEDs on 'live'
power, maybe you could fit a battery on the back of the gate, and let it
charge 24x7, if the gate spends a significant part of its life open, then
have two receivers, so that its powered when fully open and when fully
closed

e.g. a 5V 1A transmitter/receiver
https://www.seeedstudio.com/Wireless-Charging-Module-5V-1A-p-1912.html

a bit more googling ought to find 10W coils





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On 24/11/2019 11:01, Woody wrote:

That seems to completely avoid the question of how the power jumps
over to the gate ...

I misunderstood the question. Having said that, for safety reasons the
gate should have a bump stop on the leading edge so that if someone or
thing gets in the way the gate either stops or withdraws. Such gates are
heavy so need a fairly powerful motor (even if geared) to shift them
ergo if it didn't stop it could do damage or serious injury.
If the gate has such sensing then by definition it must already have
some form of connection to it so that the bump sensor gets its message
back to the controller, and if that connection exists then it shouldn't
be difficult to get power for the LEDs as well surely?


The safety sensors on the gate are connected to 433MHz transmitters that
emit a brief signal when activated. The signal is picked up by a
receiver that communicates with the gate motor's control panel. In
addition there are fixed IR beams across the drive entrance.

Bill
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On 24/11/2019 11:46, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/11/19 10:48, charles wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/11/19 04:18, Bill Wright wrote:
I want to put some LED lights on my sliding gate. I wondered if I could
power them inductively, with a power 'transmitter' fixed to the
gatepost
and a power 'receiver' on the gate, positioned so when the gate's shut
they are close together and the LEDs come on. The power requirement of
the lights is 24W at 12VDC. The positional accuracy of the gate is
good.

Bill


Have you considered whether or not ultraflexible wire might be suitable?
Such as:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BNTECHGO-Silicone-Flexible-Strands-Stranded/dp/B01C5DBKW6/ref=pd_sim_60_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01C5DBKW6& pd_rd_r=7ab77a56-bb0a-4039-b629-0fa1c8b13a41&pd_rd_w=BSR9P&pd_rd_wg=uNhTl&pf_rd_p= 6a30fab2-6ed5-4400-920a-f4b0f59e4ff9&pf_rd_r=T3B1NZZ9C076EZM52RTQ&psc=1&re fRID=T3B1NZZ9C076EZM52RTQ


Just out of interest, why do you need the leds to be so bright? Leds
using 24W would produce give thousand lumens. If you need that light
level, why not have them fixed on posts?


It's not 24w per led. It's 24w in total


I know. That still equates to a couple of thousand lumens assuming
around 80 lumens/w for a typical "domestic" led.

It's spread across 7 metres remember.

Bill
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On 24/11/2019 14:49, Woody wrote:


The problem with so much bright lighting is that people will mistake it
for the pub next door and keep driving into and damaging his gate!

Ha!

As a matter of fact the brewery was too mean to run a replacement mains
cable down to the entrance, so the pub sign has a ludicrously
ineffective solar powered light.

Bill
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On 24/11/2019 17:56, Clive Arthur wrote:

That would be quite difficult, I think, by the time everything is
weatherproofed. Mechanical coupling might be easier - motor on the
gatepost operated by microswitch coupling to a generator on the gate.


You've given me an idea. An extra wheel running on the gate rail turning
a generator!

Bill
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wrote in message
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On Sunday, 24 November 2019 11:49:44 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
A catenary cable from end of gate to post a foot or so away from the
rear of the gate should be resonably safe area but if the gate opens
more than twice the height of the gate the bottom of the cateanry
will touch the ground before the gate is open. Actually the less than
twice as you'd want some slack in the cable with the gate fully
closed.


However one could use a retractable cable reel; that wouldn't have a
hanging loop.

https://whiterosetools.com/products/...tlet-extension

An alternative is a coily flex (headphone type) with a retractable
clothes-line through the middle of the helix to stop it dragging on the
ground.

https://www.simbal.net/product-category/spiral-cables/

Festoon carriers are available to attach to the cable so the cable sheath
isn't rubbing directly on the catenary

https://www.simbal.net/product-categ...-wire-systems/


Pretty crude compared with an inductive thing at the closing end imo.

And it may be easier to wire at the closing end too.



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On 24/11/2019 18:30, Tweed wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Clive Arthur wrote:

Instead of LEDs use phosphors which are illuminated by ultra-violet
lasers.Â* The lasers are fixed and only illuminate the phosphors when
they're in gate-closed position. Can't see the problem.


Just coat the gate with radium paint ... simples


What about reflective strip on the gate and a light from a fixed location
that illuminates the strip? What is the primary purpose of illuminating the
gate with leds? Is it to make it visible to people approaching it, or for
the lights on the gate to illuminate the surrounding area?

Replying to Andy and Tweed. I did wonder about a reflective strip. The
purpose of the illumination is
1. To have some fun
2. So I can see if the gate's closed without looking on the CCTV (it's
in a dark place)
3. To reduce the chance of a vehicle hitting the gate.

Bill
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On 24/11/2019 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:

Yeah, I'd go for a flexible power cable at
the gate hinge end myself.


It's a 7 metre sliding gate.

Bill
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On 24/11/2019 18:50, Rod Speed wrote:

imo it’s the reverse, much easier to waterproof inductive.


That makes sense.

Bill
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On 24/11/19 18:02, Bill Wright wrote:
On 24/11/2019 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:


Just out of interest, why do you need the leds to be so bright? Leds
using 24W would produce give thousand lumens. If you need that light
level, why not have them fixed on posts?

It's a string of 500 LEDS that together pull 24W.


I sure they'd look better on a Christmas Tree!

--

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On 24/11/19 18:54, Bill Wright wrote:
On 24/11/2019 11:46, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/11/19 10:48, charles wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/11/19 04:18, Bill Wright wrote:
I want to put some LED lights on my sliding gate. I wondered if I could
power them inductively, with a power 'transmitter' fixed to the
gatepost
and a power 'receiver' on the gate, positioned so when the gate's shut
they are close together and the LEDs come on. The power requirement of
the lights is 24W at 12VDC. The positional accuracy of the gate is
good.

Bill

Have you considered whether or not ultraflexible wire might be suitable?
Such as:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BNTECHGO-Silicone-Flexible-Strands-Stranded/dp/B01C5DBKW6/ref=pd_sim_60_7?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01C5DBKW6& pd_rd_r=7ab77a56-bb0a-4039-b629-0fa1c8b13a41&pd_rd_w=BSR9P&pd_rd_wg=uNhTl&pf_rd_p= 6a30fab2-6ed5-4400-920a-f4b0f59e4ff9&pf_rd_r=T3B1NZZ9C076EZM52RTQ&psc=1&re fRID=T3B1NZZ9C076EZM52RTQ


Just out of interest, why do you need the leds to be so bright? Leds
using 24W would produce give thousand lumens. If you need that light
level, why not have them fixed on posts?

It's not 24w per led. It's 24w in total


I know. That still equates to a couple of thousand lumens assuming
around 80 lumens/w for a typical "domestic" led.

It's spread across 7 metres remember.


Ah, that explains it. I wasn't familiar with the gates to Wright Towers.

--

Jeff


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On 24/11/2019 18:11, Bill Wright wrote:
I'd like to do it that way but it would be hard (for me) to make
something that would do it, and would withstand all weathers.


Several years ago I added some contact strips for the sliding gate at
work. I ran the wires to them via a carbon fibre fishing rod sitting
half way back from the gate. It lasted for a few years until a more
modern, safer, gate was installed. The whip in the rod meant the loop
of wire did not sag much as the gate opened.
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On 24/11/2019 19:14, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/11/19 18:02, Bill Wright wrote:
On 24/11/2019 08:49, Jeff Layman wrote:


Just out of interest, why do you need the leds to be so bright? Leds
using 24W would produce give thousand lumens. If you need that light
level, why not have them fixed on posts?

It's a string of 500 LEDS that together pull 24W.


I sure they'd look better on a Christmas Tree!

Could mount a tree on the gate!

Bill
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"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
On 24/11/2019 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:

Yeah, I'd go for a flexible power cable at
the gate hinge end myself.


It's a 7 metre sliding gate.


Yeah, realised that after I had hit send.

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Default Lonely Auto-contradicting Psychotic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!

On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 06:05:00 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

However one could use a retractable cable reel; that wouldn't have a
hanging loop.

https://whiterosetools.com/products/...tlet-extension

An alternative is a coily flex (headphone type) with a retractable
clothes-line through the middle of the helix to stop it dragging on the
ground.

https://www.simbal.net/product-category/spiral-cables/

Festoon carriers are available to attach to the cable so the cable sheath
isn't rubbing directly on the catenary

https://www.simbal.net/product-categ...-wire-systems/


Pretty crude compared with an inductive thing at the closing end imo.

And it may be easier to wire at the closing end too.


You object, AGAIN, senile auto-contradictor? Why am I not suprised? LMAO

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On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 05:40:55 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Another good reason to pay peanuts for a much better server, nin.

I've restored the original list.


Yep, everyone knows by now that you are trolling piece of senile Australian
****!

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On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 05:50:17 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


But you don¢t need efficiency at that power level,


Of COURSE, auto-contradicting senile pest! G

and less of a hassle to weather proof.


imo it¢s the reverse


Of COURSE, auto-contradicting senile pest! LOL

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On 24/11/2019 17:56, Clive Arthur wrote:
Or a hose and a water wheel.


That's the way to do it. Heath Robinson would be proud of you...

recirculating pump on the gate post so there's a continuous stream of water.

Water wheel and generator on the gate so it intercepts the stream when
the gate is closed.

We'll all want it in the DIY FAQ... probably under humour

Andy
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:07:52 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


It's a 7 metre sliding gate.


Yeah, realised that after I had hit send.


I'll hit you on your senile head so often, you soon won't realize anything
anymore, senile cretin!

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Bill Wright wrote:
On 24/11/2019 17:56, Clive Arthur wrote:

That would be quite difficult, I think, by the time everything is
weatherproofed. Mechanical coupling might be easier - motor on the
gatepost operated by microswitch coupling to a generator on the gate.


You've given me an idea. An extra wheel running on the gate rail turning
a generator!


Acquiring a Bicycle wheel with a hub dynamo could be a solution for that
method, or just fix an old style bottle dynamo to the gate so that its
wheel rubs the rail.

With all your aerial experience cant you fix one on the gate to get some
energy from Radio 4 long wave or something.

GH


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"Marland" wrote in message
...
Bill Wright wrote:
On 24/11/2019 17:56, Clive Arthur wrote:

That would be quite difficult, I think, by the time everything is
weatherproofed. Mechanical coupling might be easier - motor on the
gatepost operated by microswitch coupling to a generator on the gate.


You've given me an idea. An extra wheel running on the gate rail turning
a generator!


Acquiring a Bicycle wheel with a hub dynamo could be a solution for
that
method, or just fix an old style bottle dynamo to the gate so that its
wheel rubs the rail.

With all your aerial experience cant you fix one on the gate
to get some energy from Radio 4 long wave or something.


Nothing even remotely like enough energy that way.



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On 25/11/2019 01:01, Marland wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
On 24/11/2019 17:56, Clive Arthur wrote:

That would be quite difficult, I think, by the time everything is
weatherproofed. Mechanical coupling might be easier - motor on the
gatepost operated by microswitch coupling to a generator on the gate.


You've given me an idea. An extra wheel running on the gate rail turning
a generator!


Acquiring a Bicycle wheel with a hub dynamo could be a solution for that
method, or just fix an old style bottle dynamo to the gate so that its
wheel rubs the rail.

With all your aerial experience cant you fix one on the gate to get some
energy from Radio 4 long wave or something.

GH


It's a pity it isn't possible to rectify UHF with a diode, because the
gate has clear sight of Emley Moor.

Bill
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"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
On 25/11/2019 01:01, Marland wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
On 24/11/2019 17:56, Clive Arthur wrote:

That would be quite difficult, I think, by the time everything is
weatherproofed. Mechanical coupling might be easier - motor on the
gatepost operated by microswitch coupling to a generator on the gate.

You've given me an idea. An extra wheel running on the gate rail turning
a generator!


Acquiring a Bicycle wheel with a hub dynamo could be a solution for
that
method, or just fix an old style bottle dynamo to the gate so that its
wheel rubs the rail.

With all your aerial experience cant you fix one on the gate to get
some
energy from Radio 4 long wave or something.

GH


It's a pity it isn't possible to rectify UHF with a diode, because the
gate has clear sight of Emley Moor.


Wouldnt get enough power that way even if you could rectify UHF with a
diode.

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This was why I said sliding contacts. Self cleaning and a handy source of
low voltage to power your radio if you are outside cutting the hedge.. grin.
Brian

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"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
On 24/11/2019 18:40, Rod Speed wrote:

Yeah, I'd go for a flexible power cable at
the gate hinge end myself.


It's a 7 metre sliding gate.


Yeah, realised that after I had hit send.



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On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 13:11:28 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

Acquiring a Bicycle wheel with a hub dynamo could be a solution for
that
method, or just fix an old style bottle dynamo to the gate so that its
wheel rubs the rail.

With all your aerial experience can¢t you fix one on the gate
to get some energy from Radio 4 long wave or something.


Nothing even remotely like enough energy that way.


That's not for a clinically insane senile know-it-all like you to decide,
senile pest!

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On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 13:54:01 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


It's a pity it isn't possible to rectify UHF with a diode, because the
gate has clear sight of Emley Moor.


Wouldn¢t get enough power that way even if you could rectify UHF with a
diode.


In auto-contradicting mode again, you clinically insane trolling senile
pest? LOL

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On 24/11/2019 18:08, Bill Wright wrote:
On 24/11/2019 08:51, Ashley Booth wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:

I want to put some LED lights on my sliding gate. I wondered if I
could power them inductively, with a power 'transmitter' fixed to the
gatepost and a power 'receiver' on the gate, positioned so when the
gate's shut they are close together and the LEDs come on. The power
requirement of the lights is 24W at 12VDC. The positional accuracy of
the gate is good.

Bill


What about solar?

See BigClive's solution. Needs water proofing though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEnYRXr1_ww

I started off wondering about solar but for a 12/12 hour duty cycle the
requirement would be about 0.3kWh per day. Unfortunately the gate area
doesn't get much sun. The back of the gate does face south but trees and
buildings screen it most of the time in winter.


You would need a 8kW solar array, and probably 1.5kWh of storage to make
that a reliable year round proposition. So not practical on any level.



--
Cheers,

John.

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On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 19:10:59 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 24/11/2019 18:30, Tweed wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Clive Arthur wrote:

Instead of LEDs use phosphors which are illuminated by ultra-violet
lasers.* The lasers are fixed and only illuminate the phosphors when
they're in gate-closed position. Can't see the problem.

Just coat the gate with radium paint ... simples


What about reflective strip on the gate and a light from a fixed location
that illuminates the strip? What is the primary purpose of illuminating the
gate with leds? Is it to make it visible to people approaching it, or for
the lights on the gate to illuminate the surrounding area?

Replying to Andy and Tweed. I did wonder about a reflective strip. The
purpose of the illumination is
1. To have some fun
2. So I can see if the gate's closed without looking on the CCTV (it's
in a dark place)
3. To reduce the chance of a vehicle hitting the gate.

Bill

I was going to suggest a series of
reflectors/light-guides/fibre-optics illuminated from one 24W light
source when the gate is closed. Anyway a roadsign type of
retro-reflector would pick up the vehicle's headlights.
--
Dave W
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On 25/11/2019 14:13, Dave W wrote:

I was going to suggest a series of
reflectors/light-guides/fibre-optics illuminated from one 24W light
source when the gate is closed. Anyway a roadsign type of
retro-reflector would pick up the vehicle's headlights.


How about if I mount a magnetron on a big satellite dish and point it at
a sealed container of water bolted onto the gate? The water boils,
powers a little Mamod steam engine that turns a dynamo which charges the
battery. Simples.

Bill
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On Monday, 25 November 2019 19:19:47 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
How about if I mount a magnetron on a big satellite dish and point it at
a sealed container of water bolted onto the gate? The water boils,
powers a little Mamod steam engine that turns a dynamo which charges the
battery. Simples.


Wouldn't a small illegal immigrant to power the dynamo be cheaper?

Owain

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On 25/11/2019 19:19, Bill Wright wrote:
On 25/11/2019 14:13, Dave W wrote:

I was going to suggest a series of
reflectors/light-guides/fibre-optics illuminated from one 24W light
source when the gate is closed. Anyway a roadsign type of
retro-reflector would pick up the vehicle's headlights.


How about if I mount a magnetron on a big satellite dish and point it at
a sealed container of water bolted onto the gate? The water boils,
powers a little Mamod steam engine that turns a dynamo which charges the
battery. Simples.

Bill


Or-- (Lightbulb moment) If I mounted a loudspeaker near the gate and put
a microphone on the gate, and played really loud music with a lot of low
bass, the mike output should be enough to charge a battery. Simples.

Bill
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On Monday, 25 November 2019 19:26:15 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
Or-- (Lightbulb moment) If I mounted a loudspeaker near the gate and put
a microphone on the gate, and played really loud music with a lot of low
bass, the mike output should be enough to charge a battery. Simples.


Or paint the gate up as a shrine and get all the local devotees to come and light candles (for a small donation).

Owain

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On Monday, 25 November 2019 19:23:48 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
Ohh! Never thought of that. And I'd get enormous kudos in the village if
I had a little black feller pedaling away like buggery at the entrance.


Add an extra wheel to the shaft and he could do knife-grinding as well.

Although to be pedantic one can't pedal like buggery because pedalling is rotary motion whereas buggery is reciproca...

Owain

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On 26/11/2019 01:22, Fredxx wrote:
On 25/11/2019 19:19:46, Bill Wright wrote:
On 25/11/2019 14:13, Dave W wrote:

I was going to suggest a series of
reflectors/light-guides/fibre-optics illuminated from one 24W light
source when the gate is closed. Anyway a roadsign type of
retro-reflector would pick up the vehicle's headlights.


How about if I mount a magnetron on a big satellite dish and point it
at a sealed container of water bolted onto the gate? The water boils,
powers a little Mamod steam engine that turns a dynamo which charges
the battery. Simples.


Why not take one of Harry's solar panels, silver your satellite dish to
reflect and focus a floodlight onto Harry's panel on the gate?


Yes, that would work. Design and build a tracking device so it follows
the sun!

Bill
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