"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 17/11/2019 22:19, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
alan_m wrote :
I woke up late one morning to find a trench and a pile of debris across
my driveway and I couldn't get my car out! This was followed up by cold
calling foot in the door scum posing as Telepest salespeople!

All done with an absolute minimum of disruption here, maybe they got
there act together?

They had a machine cut narrow trenches in the tarmac, followed quickly by
the fibre into the trench, then the back fill. My drive was only
obstructed for an hour or so. The back fill has stood the test of time,
except in a few places, which were quickly marked up for their repair
team.

Around here they run in ducts that telewest installed.
The BT stuff runs in ducts installed by the builders when the estate was
built and before the footpaths were tarmacked.
I watched them do some of it.

Around here they don't bother with ducts at all in the
new estate that I am watching being done because a
mate of mine has a block of land in it. Currently the
only thing left to do is actually tarmac the road. All
the services are done now, power, water, gas, fibre,
street lights and footpaths on some of the street sides.
We don't have footpaths everywhere and have never
had and our footpaths are concrete, not tarmac.

On 17/11/2019 13:35, Lee wrote:
On 17/11/2019 11:44, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I'm all in favour of a government initiative to get fibre to all premises
in the UK. Given the current purely commercial setup is not expanding
fast
enough. A mate who lives in Lewis (S coast of England, and hardly miles
from 'civilisation') still hasn't got even FTC, despite very slow BB.

But the idea of making it totally free to use just pie in the sky and
silly to boot.

Just another example of the political parties trying to buy votes.


So we are told we are supposed to be wary of Huawei becuase of alleged
ties to it's governemnt - and then fully embrace the idea of our own
government providing "free" broadband to us all?

Bit ironic since most of the FTTP termination kit in use for Passive
Optical Networks is made by Huawei...


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 17/11/2019 14:13, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 11:44:48 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'm all in favour of a government initiative to get fibre to all
premises in the UK. Given the current purely commercial setup is not
expanding fast enough. A mate who lives in Lewis (S coast of England,
and hardly miles from 'civilisation') still hasn't got even FTC, despite
very slow BB.

But the idea of making it totally free to use just pie in the sky and
silly to boot.

Just another example of the political parties trying to buy votes.

When was *any* policy - especially one floated to win an election -
delivered exactly as promised ?

Never, that's when.

So if we strip away the frothing, maybe there's a case for some sort of
universal provision of broadband at a basic level. Enough to access the
services provided online by government ? And if the subscriber wants and
can afford more, they upgrade to full fat HD streaming levels of
broadband ?

Openreach have just launched a 500Kbps FTTP product (and no, that was
not a typo - I really do mean 0.5 megabits per sec). Which may sound
daft, however its one of the stepping stone technologies to
decommissioning the copper local loop. So very entry level FTTP will
become the de-facto provision for those wanting landline phone only.
(i.e. it would be supplied with a VoIP line access module to provide the
voice service). There is also a suggestion that the consumer could add a
normal router to the line for a basic level of internet access, at
little / no cost over that of the normal line rental, with an upgrade
path to faster data should they wish, with no need for further cabling /
engineering works etc.

And "free" broadband covering the entire UK makes a **** of a lot more
fair use of tax money than the ¿is-it-isn't-it? saga that HS2 has become.

It makes no sense, so its hardly worth arguing about whether that
amounts to more or less sense than HS2.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 05:08:12 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Around here they run in ducts that telewest installed.
The BT stuff runs in ducts installed by the builders when the estate was
built and before the footpaths were tarmacked.
I watched them do some of it.

Around here

"Around here"? Is that in Australia? This is a UK ng, senile idiot!

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On 17/11/2019 11:44, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I'm all in favour of a government initiative to get fibre to all premises
in the UK. Given the current purely commercial setup is not expanding fast
enough. A mate who lives in Lewis (S coast of England, and hardly miles
from 'civilisation') still hasn't got even FTC, despite very slow BB.

But the idea of making it totally free to use just pie in the sky and
silly to boot.

Just another example of the political parties trying to buy votes.


I assume Labour also have plans for alternative employment for the
14,000 Virgin employees who will lose their jobs when their employer
goes bust.

On 17/11/2019 14:03, Andy Burns wrote:
David wrote:

I haven't yet seen if the ISPs will be free.

Given that they said that the Plusnet part of BT would not be
privatised, it seems they assume it could survive by some other means

https://labour.org.uk/press/full-text-of-john-mcdonnells-speech-on-labours-british-broadband-announcement

I wonder what those "other means" are considering that their sole
business is providing Internet access.

On 18/11/2019 23:31, JoeJoe wrote:


I assume Labour also have plans for alternative employment for the
14,000 Virgin employees who will lose their jobs when their employer
goes bust.

I guess you haven't seen Labours plans for a nationalised zero carbon
economy where all those working in the UK dirty energy industries will
be given high paid jobs in the green energy utopia.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 23:37:36 +0000, JoeJoe wrote:

Given that they said that the Plusnet part of BT would not be
privatised, it seems they assume it could survive by some other
means

I wonder what those "other means" are considering that their sole
business is providing Internet access.

"providing Internet access" has two rather different meanings
dependant on context. One is the provision of physical bit of wire,
glass or WHY. The other is the provision of the services and link(s)
to the internet that are carried over the physical provision.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 19/11/2019 10:25, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 23:37:36 +0000, JoeJoe wrote:

Given that they said that the Plusnet part of BT would not be
privatised, it seems they assume it could survive by some other
means

I wonder what those "other means" are considering that their sole
business is providing Internet access.

"providing Internet access" has two rather different meanings
dependant on context. One is the provision of physical bit of wire,
glass or WHY. The other is the provision of the services and link(s)
to the internet that are carried over the physical provision.

Except that 'modern' ISPs don't any longer provide webspace, Usenet or
even email.

--
Max Demian

On 19/11/2019 10:25, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 23:37:36 +0000, JoeJoe wrote:

Given that they said that the Plusnet part of BT would not be
privatised, it seems they assume it could survive by some other
means

I wonder what those "other means" are considering that their sole
business is providing Internet access.

"providing Internet access" has two rather different meanings
dependant on context. One is the provision of physical bit of wire,
glass or WHY.
1. Dependent.
2. It is also access to the TCP/IP layers. Not just the bits of wire.


» The other is the provision of the services and link(s)
to the internet that are carried over the physical provision.

3. No, the Internet is not the services it supplies. It is the network
itself.


--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

On 19/11/2019 11:37, Max Demian wrote:
On 19/11/2019 10:25, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 23:37:36 +0000, JoeJoe wrote:

Given that they said that the Plusnet part of BT would not be
privatised, it seems they assume it could survive by some other
means

I wonder what those "other means" are considering that their sole
business is providing Internet access.

"providing Internet access" has two rather different meanings
dependant on context. One is the provision of physical bit of wire,
glass or WHY. The other is the provision of the services and link(s)
to the internet that are carried over the physical provision.

Except that 'modern' ISPs don't any longer provide webspace, Usenet or
even email.

Or often, DNS.



--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

In article ,
says...


Telepest (now Virgin) did install fibre a long time before BT got around
to fibre to the cabinet. There was a lot of objections to the disruption
caused by the contractors digging up pavements and restoring them in a
**** state. In my case they sent a letter out approx 6 weeks in advance
of the work saying it would commence "sometime" in that 6 week period -
that was the only notification. I woke up late one morning to find a
trench and a pile of debris across my driveway and I couldn't get my car
out! This was followed up by cold calling foot in the door scum posing
as Telepest salespeople!

All cable operators were dependent on contractors to build
their network and were let down badly by the way these outfits
performed.

As for fibre, ntl: - now also part of virgin, of course - was
no different to Telewest. The background to how the networks
developed is often poorly understood, so here goes.

These companies originally provided TV and telephone services
only. The signal quality of the TV signal is tightly specified
as part of the licence in terms of noise and distortion. These
degrade as the number of amplifiers increases so the solution
was to cable areas on an individual basis and feed from the
headend to the local launch amplifier over fibre.

Amplifier bandwidths increased over time from 450MHz to
550MHz, then 600MHz and, by the time the networks were
upgraded for DTV, a bandwidth of 750MHz was chosen as
providing sufficient extra bandwidth whilst minimising the
amount of network upgrading necessary.

In 1997, the first version of the DOCSIS spec (Data Over Cable
Service Interface Specification) was released. This allowed
40Mbs of internet data to be carried in a 6MHz (US) TV
channel. A modification created EuroDOCSIS which allowed the
full 8MHz bandwidth of European channels to be used. On the
network I worked on, the first broadband internet offering was
a 'whopping' 600kbs!

Note that this was over 10 times the maximum 56kps available
on dial-up.

Another point to bear in mind is that as the network is
designed to carry high quality TV signals unlike the voice
networks used for ADSL, it doesn't matter where you are on the
copper part of the network, the signal quality does not
degrade!

Revisions of DOCSIS continued until, in 2006, 1.2Mbs was
available in one channel - but there was more.

As the cable networks had been upgraded to digital it become
possible to replace all the subscriber analogue set top boxes
with digital ones and turn off the analogue channels - which
hogged the lion's share of the bandwidth. DOCSIS now allowed
multiple channels to be bonded together, vastly incresing the
available capacity and enabling higher speeds for subscribers.

As well as the vast speed increase, it was now possible to
bond several channels together - the last time I checked my
modem it was connected to 5 channels. As the speed per channel
increased in 2013 to 10Gbs per channel I could, in theory,
have 50Gbs of data all to myself!

Why VM should want to supply FTTP in any of the existing areas
beats me - Their FTTC offering still beats BT's offering hands
down because it doesn't suffer from the local copper loop
problems that affect so many users.

Anyone who thinks FTTC is new is 20 years out of date!


--

Terry

On 17/11/2019 15:14, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
alan_m used his keyboard to write :
I keep getting bombarded with offers saying I could save perhaps £400
on their usual prices for the first 2 years but for me it isn't a saving

Exactly the same here, I feel rather sorry for them and the amount they
have invested locally.

- I don't watch sport and get TV via aerial and dish
(Freeview/Freesat) and my Internet is fast enough with fibre to the
local cabinet.

I only use it for text, email and a bit of streaming - it does that fine.


That is true for many of us. But, online experiences are going to be
simple keyboard and monitor terminals and all things will exist in the
cloud.

You will sign up to a virtual 'Desktop' run by companies that promise
you the best experiences.

However, speeds are about to go over the top with the new graphene CPU's
that can be multi-layered cos of low heat manufacturing. Because data
transfer is almost instantaneous and low energy, heat is less of a
problem. Clock speeds will escalate.

Eye masks will be a one piece clear crystal with on-edge tech. I.E.
signals are directed to the edge of the thin lens/mask. They will be
made of a structured crystal that can have faces created at any point
within the block using subsurface laser etching.

With laser, great resolutions are capable allowing for many faces of
different planes within a very small area undetectable by eye. Both
surfaces of the lens can be both a camera and a display simultaneously,
creating 'Mixed Reality'. Being faster than your eye responses, future
tech will learn your auto-responses and will create content ahead of you.

Faster speeds will also bring people into real time sharing where huge
quantities of data are transferring between many hundreds of people.

Anyone that watched Guy Martin do the tractor speed record would have
seen the Williams 3D imaging headsets and virtual 3D model of the
tractor. Well, that seemed privative from what I have seen to be
promising both in software and hardware sectors.

Gamers such as race drivers, who earn many thousands of pounds
on-line, will welcome lag free drives. Immersion detail is becoming big
demand. Besides visuals, and smaller 3D detail, are the external affects
of night and day and weather.

The weather is based on historic data for that area. Once a weather
data set is selected by the server, teams can access previous days data
up to the present time. Race teams have 'live' weather monitors
throughout the race. The weather data is for a huge area around the real
world race track and includes all the data that weather includes. As
such teams can track changes in air movement over miles and days, or, at
track and car levels.

In the future of greater, faster search engines, a person can be picked
out for their talent and skills. It happens already. But, I like the
idea that a airport controller is one that has been seen to stay alert
for 14 hours a day on their PC without a mishap. Or the joy of hearing
there is a 12 year old kid on-board who can fly the pilot-less Jumbo jet
I'm in.

You are familiar with the pattern, direction; instant everything for
as little effort and cost as possible. Toward a spiritual existence.

I look forward to the mixed reality lens. I'll never have any ugly
neighbours.


These works are under way.


....Ray.