On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 18:33:48 +0100, charles
wrote:

snip
..

even a modern car left for 10 days in an airport car park can have very low
battery. The alarm system is quite thirsty.

Agreed.

Cheers, T i m

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
dennis@home wrote:
On 23/10/2019 10:14, charles wrote:
In article , dennis@home
wrote:
On 23/10/2019 08:30, Tim+ wrote:

About 40 years ago my mother bought a Fiat 124 which was the first
car
I ever saw with a boot light. I was demonstrating this to my future
father-in-law when we discovered it had no switch but was permanently
on


Um, sounds like ******** to me. So the battery was running flat every
day?

Tim


Car batteries don't run flat every day just because there is a 5W load
on them. If yours do then buy a working one.

5W for 24 hours would be 120 watt hours; at 12v = 10 AH - quite a drain
on
a small battery,


What do you think the capacity is for a car battery under a very small
load like that?
Even the cheap nasty ones you used to get would be around 80AHr for that
small a load.
An "80AHr" one in a modern car would probably be 160AHr for such a small
load.
The capacity is usually stated for a much higher drain.

Most batteries now have capacity in how many amps you can draw while
starting.



How about between 1966 and 74? Batteries have changed a lot over the
years.
Its by no means uncommon for a boot light to flatten a battery, how long
itll take will obviously depend of the state/quality/capacity of he
battery.

All this is beside the point that no manufacturer would design a boot
light
to be €œpermanently on€�. As TNP suggested, it was probably just linked to
the door switches instead of having its own boot light switch (as an
economy measure),

Unlikely with non computer controlled lights because
then you couldnt walk up to the car, open the boot
and have the boot light come on so you could see
what you were doing in there at night.

or the OP is just wrong about it having no switch.

Yeah, thats much more likely.

On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 07:51:39 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Unlikely

You disagree again, you auto-contradicting clinically insane cretin? LOL

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

"RJH" wrote in message
...
On 23/10/2019 15:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
BMW 7 Series 3 years old. Has tw lights in the boot. One under the
parcel shelf and one in the lid. No sign of water ingress. Very
strange. Any bright ideas out there (excuse the pun)


Are you certain they are properly switched off when the boot is closed?
Not flickering etc with movement? Some use a switch which works on the
lid angle, rather than the sort operated by the doors for the interior
lights. And that could be faulty.

Light fittings designed for only short term use may well allow the bulb
to
get too hot if left on for long periods.

Sorry - missed the bit about it blowing the fuse. ;-)

If it's anything like my E39, a fractured wire or two where the loom goes
into the boot lid isn't unknown. Because of constant flexing.


On a 3 year old 7 series?

Thats been rear ended twice

Standards have slipped since my day ;-)

Nope.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 23/10/2019 08:30, Tim+ wrote:

About 40 years ago my mother bought a Fiat 124 which was the first
car I ever saw with a boot light. I was demonstrating this to my
future father-in-law when we discovered it had no switch but was
permanently on


Um, sounds like ******** to me. So the battery was running flat every
day?

Tim


Car batteries don't run flat every day just because there is a 5W load
on them.
If yours do then buy a working one.

Some of us remember the days of parking lights. No street lighting, so had
to be on all the hours of dark. And with a weedy dynamo.


Indeed, little things you attached to the window ( they clipped over the
edge and stuck out). Single bulb in an egg shaped plastic lens, red one
end, clear the other, held in a black rubber arm which also formed the clip
to go over the window.

Not that Im old enough to have used one but I remember my father using
them and fitting a little 2 pin connector to plug them into in his cars.
(No cigarette lighters in cars then.)

On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 08:25:26 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile asshole's latest troll****

**** off, senile pest!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

T i m wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:32:48 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

snip

5W for 24 hours would be 120 watt hours; at 12v = 10 AH - quite a drain on
a small battery,


What do you think the capacity is for a car battery under a very small
load like that?

Erm, roughly the rated value at that load, given it's normally the C20
one.

Even the cheap nasty ones you used to get would be around 80AHr for that
small a load.

Nope.

An "80AHr" one in a modern car would probably be 160AHr for such a small
load.

Whilst it might be more if the load isn't on the C20 rating for that
capacity, it's unlikely to be double for 'that' (~.4A) load.


There is a formula to calculate it. If my memory serves it is called
Peukerts Formula but I dont remember the actual formula beyond it isnt
linear.

Like you, while I agree the low discharge rate will help improve the
available capacity, it wont be that dramatic. Plus, you should work on
only have the marked capacity actually being available, unless you want to
risk damaging the battery ( at least if you discharge beyond this point
regularly). Car batteries are not designed to be deep discharged- leisure
batteries are a different matter but can be limited when it comes to peak
currents.

Modern cars are often fitted with remarkably small (in Ahr terms)
batteries. 35-45Ahr isnt uncommon. Im pretty sure my CRV was 45Ahr, my
MX5 35, and my wifes Picanto also 35Ahr. Our daughters often left the
interior light on in the Picanto and my wife found the battery was dead the
next morning.

On 23/10/2019 22:30, Brian Reay wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
On 23/10/2019 08:30, Tim+ wrote:

About 40 years ago my mother bought a Fiat 124 which was the first
car I ever saw with a boot light. I was demonstrating this to my
future father-in-law when we discovered it had no switch but was
permanently on


Um, sounds like ******** to me. So the battery was running flat every
day?

Tim


Car batteries don't run flat every day just because there is a 5W load
on them.
If yours do then buy a working one.

Some of us remember the days of parking lights. No street lighting, so had
to be on all the hours of dark. And with a weedy dynamo.


Indeed, little things you attached to the window ( they clipped over the
edge and stuck out). Single bulb in an egg shaped plastic lens, red one
end, clear the other, held in a black rubber arm which also formed the clip
to go over the window.

Not that Im old enough to have used one but I remember my father using
them and fitting a little 2 pin connector to plug them into in his cars.
(No cigarette lighters in cars then.)

Yes, we had one. One (5W?) bulb instead of four left on. Ours didn't
have the rubber arm it was a flat sided, isosceles triangle shape, with
the narrow point flattened off and a springy metal clip attached there
to hook over the window.

SteveW

On 23/10/2019 21:19, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 18:33:18 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
The point being is that it's quite easy to flatten the battery of an
old vehicle in the cold with just a boot / interior light, overnight.

A mate did exactly that with a Rover SDi and that wasn't that old.

Boot light in an SD1 is 6 watts. Interior lights 2x6 watt. Mine has a 70
amp.hr battery. 1 amp for 12 hours would barely make a dent in it.

Yours had a *good* 70Ah battery in it. ;-)

I once left the lights on at work on a winter morning. Was told about it
lunch time, and it started OK. Ran it for about 15 minutes to charge the
battery and then had lunch. Started OK at night.

(Side lights ...) Yup, that's what I would have expected (hoped for)
on a good battery (and 'these days').

On the other hand, I once had my car doors frozen shut and borrowed my
mother's Fiesta 1.6 diesel to get to work on time (this would have been
in 1990, so a basic, non-turbo diesel).

The battery was not good and when I came to go home, the interior light
had drained it enough to stop it from starting. Trying to start took the
rest out out of the battery and trying to tow start it (bump starting it
was not an option due to the compression ratio) wouldn't work, because
the battery no longer had even enough power to open the fuel cut-off valve!

SteveW

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 23:21:48 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

Yes, we had one. One (5W?) bulb instead of four left on.

I wonder how many people know ... and how many cars do it that if you
leave the indicator indicating right (or left etc) with the ignition
off and lights on side, you just get the single light front and rear
on the right? So two 5W lamps (plus side repeaters) instead of 4
(traditionally).

Cheers, T i m

In article , Brian Reay wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , dennis@home
wrote:
On 23/10/2019 08:30, Tim+ wrote:

About 40 years ago my mother bought a Fiat 124 which was the first
car I ever saw with a boot light. I was demonstrating this to my
future father-in-law when we discovered it had no switch but was
permanently on


Um, sounds like ******** to me. So the battery was running flat every
day?

Tim


Car batteries don't run flat every day just because there is a 5W load
on them. If yours do then buy a working one.

Some of us remember the days of parking lights. No street lighting, so
had to be on all the hours of dark. And with a weedy dynamo.


Indeed, little things you attached to the window ( they clipped over the
edge and stuck out). Single bulb in an egg shaped plastic lens, red one
end, clear the other, held in a black rubber arm which also formed the
clip to go over the window.

Not that I‘m old enough to have used one but I remember my father using
them and fitting a little 2 pin connector to plug them into in his cars.
(No cigarette lighters in cars then.)

my father's light was magnetic. When plugged into the retro-fitted 2 pin
socket it would stick to the bodywork. (Magnalite?)

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article , Steve Walker
wrote:
On 23/10/2019 22:30, Brian Reay wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , dennis@home
wrote:
On 23/10/2019 08:30, Tim+ wrote:

About 40 years ago my mother bought a Fiat 124 which was the first
car I ever saw with a boot light. I was demonstrating this to my
future father-in-law when we discovered it had no switch but was
permanently on


Um, sounds like ******** to me. So the battery was running flat
every day?

Tim


Car batteries don't run flat every day just because there is a 5W
load on them. If yours do then buy a working one.

Some of us remember the days of parking lights. No street lighting, so
had to be on all the hours of dark. And with a weedy dynamo.


Indeed, little things you attached to the window ( they clipped over
the edge and stuck out). Single bulb in an egg shaped plastic lens, red
one end, clear the other, held in a black rubber arm which also formed
the clip to go over the window.

Not that I‘m old enough to have used one but I remember my father using
them and fitting a little 2 pin connector to plug them into in his
cars. (No cigarette lighters in cars then.)

Yes, we had one. One (5W?) bulb instead of four left on.

5 - you forgot the numberplate light

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 23:21:48 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

Yes, we had one. One (5W?) bulb instead of four left on.

I wonder how many people know ... and how many cars do it that if you
leave the indicator indicating right (or left etc) with the ignition
off and lights on side, you just get the single light front and rear
on the right? So two 5W lamps (plus side repeaters) instead of 4
(traditionally).

My 1971 Cortina III did that.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Brian Reay wrote:

Indeed, little things you attached to the window ( they clipped over the
edge and stuck out). Single bulb in an egg shaped plastic lens, red one
end, clear the other, held in a black rubber arm which also formed the clip
to go over the window.

Not that I’m old enough to have used one but I remember my father using
them and fitting a little 2 pin connector to plug them into in his cars.

As I said last time you mentioned this, this is a DIY group, so
in addition to the Woolworth's socket, you shouldn't leave out
the mention of making your own parking light from a bit of bent
tin can, a fish paste jar, a bulb holder and a red sweet wrapper.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On Thursday, 24 October 2019 08:09:51 UTC+1, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:

Indeed, little things you attached to the window ( they clipped over the
edge and stuck out). Single bulb in an egg shaped plastic lens, red one
end, clear the other, held in a black rubber arm which also formed the clip
to go over the window.

Not that Im old enough to have used one but I remember my father using
them and fitting a little 2 pin connector to plug them into in his cars.

As I said last time you mentioned this, this is a DIY group, so
in addition to the Woolworth's socket, you shouldn't leave out
the mention of making your own parking light from a bit of bent
tin can, a fish paste jar, a bulb holder and a red sweet wrapper.

Chris

A red pie tray works pretty well too. DAMHIKT.


NT

Brian Reay wrote:


Not that Im old enough to have used one but I remember my father using
them and fitting a little 2 pin connector to plug them into in his cars.
(No cigarette lighters in cars then.)


One of these? https://images.app.goo.gl/7WaTwNAhAv4dQEg39

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 01:10:46 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 23:21:48 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

Yes, we had one. One (5W?) bulb instead of four left on.

I wonder how many people know ... and how many cars do it that if you
leave the indicator indicating right (or left etc) with the ignition off
and lights on side, you just get the single light front and rear on the
right? So two 5W lamps (plus side repeaters) instead of 4
(traditionally).

Was common on Fords for decades. I know it stopped for a bit (not sure
why). No idea if they do it now (and I have a Ford!)



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 01:10:46 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 23:21:48 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

Yes, we had one. One (5W?) bulb instead of four left on.

I wonder how many people know ... and how many cars do it that if you
leave the indicator indicating right (or left etc) with the ignition off
and lights on side, you just get the single light front and rear on the
right? So two 5W lamps (plus side repeaters) instead of 4
(traditionally).

Was common on Fords for decades. I know it stopped for a bit (not sure
why). No idea if they do it now (and I have a Ford!)

Common in VAG cars. Dont think you have to leave side lights on, you just
need to leave the indicator switch in the appropriate position.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 24/10/2019 08:57, Tim+ wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:


Not that Im old enough to have used one but I remember my father using
them and fitting a little 2 pin connector to plug them into in his cars.
(No cigarette lighters in cars then.)


One of these? https://images.app.goo.gl/7WaTwNAhAv4dQEg39

Tim

Ah the old 1.5V polarised battery connectors. Also used as AM radio
aerial socket I think.


--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 01:10:46 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 23:21:48 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

Yes, we had one. One (5W?) bulb instead of four left on.

I wonder how many people know ... and how many cars do it that if you
leave the indicator indicating right (or left etc) with the ignition off
and lights on side, you just get the single light front and rear on the
right? So two 5W lamps (plus side repeaters) instead of 4
(traditionally).

Was common on Fords for decades. I know it stopped for a bit (not sure
why). No idea if they do it now (and I have a Ford!)

Common in VAG cars. Dont think you have to leave side lights on, you just
need to leave the indicator switch in the appropriate position.

I never knew about it, and I had two VW Golfs (1988 and 1993 vintage). I
only learned about it much later. I suppose if someone hadn't already told
you about it, you'd only discover it if

- you happened to leave the indicator switch in one of the two "on"
positions when you parked at night

- you *didn't* leave the side lights switch on which would override the
one-sidedness

I always cancel my indicators manually when I've finished turning: I got
into that habit after driving my dad's Citroens which didn't have
self-cancelling indicators. I actually prefer non-self-cancelling
indicators - I find I have to hold the switch on when indicating right on a
roundabout because the initial left turn to join the roundabout cancels the
signal.

I presume with the advent of LED lights, fewer cars nowadays need one-sided
lights for parking, because the current drain from 4 lights will not be
noticeably more than from 2.

I think I first learned about one-sided parking lights when I asked in a
newsgroup about the wiring in towing hitches - why they "wasted" a pin by
having separate pins for left and right tail lights when they could have
used it for something useful like fog or reversing lights, which the older
7-pin connectors don't have. When we had a caravan, my dad ran a separate
wire for reversing lights with an inline fuse connector which had one part
on the car and the other on the caravan; part of the
hitching-up-and-testing-lights was to make sure that wire was connected and
that the reversing lights on the caravan came on.

After asking about this, people said "oh, it's so you can leave just one
rear light illuminated when parking at night" which made me realise that
this was evidently possible in some cars.


I remember my friend's dad had one of those little red-and-white lights that
you clipped onto the window when you were parking at night, so your car
showed a white light forwards and a red light backwards without you needing
to leave the side/tail lights on. That used even less power - a single 5 W
bulb with white and red "glass" on the front and back respectively.

In article
,
Tim+ wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:


Not that I'm old enough to have used one but I remember my father using
them and fitting a little 2 pin connector to plug them into in his cars.
(No cigarette lighters in cars then.)


One of these? https://images.app.goo.gl/7WaTwNAhAv4dQEg39

Tim
Not the one on my father's car that had a circular plug.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 09:54:43 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Tim+" wrote in message
snip

I wonder how many people know ... and how many cars do it that if you
leave the indicator indicating right (or left etc) with the ignition off
and lights on side, you just get the single light front and rear on the
right? So two 5W lamps (plus side repeaters) instead of 4
(traditionally).

snip


- you happened to leave the indicator switch in one of the two "on"
positions when you parked at night

- you *didn't* leave the side lights switch on which would override the
one-sidedness


Check.

When I turn off the ignition with an indicator left on, the lights off
and then open the door I get an audible warning (which is different to
the one if I just leave the lights on) and *generally* I just
(subconsciously) cancel whatever it is that I've left on to silence
the warning before leaving the vehicle (which is why I thought you had
to leave the lights on but you don't on this Meriva A).

I wonder if it was the same on my Mk5 Cortina or Mk1 Sierra (I don't
think I ever tried to use it on the Rover 218SD and as that was
possessed [1], it would probably take over and change things in any
case). ;-)

Cheers, T i m


[1] It would seemingly randomly (centrally) lock and / or unlock
itself, even if you were in it.

I once just stopped at the side of the road outside a shop and because
I was only putting something though the letter box, just closed the
car door. A couple seconds later I heard it central lock itself (with
all the keys now locked inside). Whilst I had a spare set at home, I
couldn't get in till the Mrs was available but considering it was a
Honda under the Rover badges, went into my local motorcycle shop and
borrowed (with permission) a Honda key from a 125 Honda motorbike. It
opened the car straight away. ;-)

More 'public' was when it immobilised itself (I didn't have an
immobiliser fob etc) just as we were supposed to be driving off the
I.O.W ferry. ;-(

"T i m" wrote in message
...
I once just stopped at the side of the road outside a shop and because
I was only putting something though the letter box, just closed the
car door. A couple seconds later I heard it central lock itself (with
all the keys now locked inside). Whilst I had a spare set at home, I
couldn't get in till the Mrs was available but considering it was a
Honda under the Rover badges, went into my local motorcycle shop and
borrowed (with permission) a Honda key from a 125 Honda motorbike. It
opened the car straight away. ;-)

More 'public' was when it immobilised itself (I didn't have an
immobiliser fob etc) just as we were supposed to be driving off the
I.O.W ferry. ;-(

Embarrassing. I bet you held up the whole queue in the IOW ferry :-( The
nearest I've done to causing a major hold-up was when my clutch cable
snapped as I was setting off when I was the lead car at traffic lights.
Because this made the car stall in-gear, there was no way to get the car
into neutral so it was jammed solid. And because the car was on a slight
slope, it was difficult to rock the car uphill to relieve the pressure on
the transmission that was jamming the gear lever. Eventually two burly guys
came to help and were able to move the car uphill to let me put it in
neutral, so I could roll backwards out of the way.

I was once behind a car that wouldn't start as it was about to drive off the
Lymington/Yarmouth IOW ferry and I was impressed with how quickly the port
staff arranged a vehicle to tow it clear so everyone else could get off. It
must be a common occurrence for them to have a towing vehicle readily
available.



When I got a house and a car of my own, I very quickly learned the habit of
always keeping the keys in my pocket apart from when they were in the front
door lock or the car's ignition - and always removing the car keys (and,
nowadays, locking the car) whenever I got out, even for a brief instant. I
used to leave my car unlocked (though not with the keys in) while I went
into the kiosk to pay for fuel; not any more!

So far I've not managed to lock myself out of my house/car, and I very
rarely lose my keys because *by definition* they are in my pocket if they
are not in the lock that they operate.

It means that if I ever have to leave the house in a hurry (eg fire, flood
etc) then I will always have my keys - as long as I have time to get dressed
;-) And even if I didn't, I'd know where to grab my trousers on the way out
so I had my keys.

I'm probably unusual: a lot of people empty their keys out of their pockets
at night and hang them on a rack (implicitly 'labelled' "car thieves, here
are the keys"), and also put their keys down somewhere while they are doing
something else. I wish I had a tenner for every time we've been about to go
out and SWMBO says "where are my keys" and we have to go on a hunt for them.
OK, I'm as bad with my reading glasses - now I need them even for using the
computer and cutting up veg for dinner, as well as for reading, I really
ought to put them on a cord round my neck, except that looks naff and like
something my grandpa used to do ;-)

On 23/10/2019 18:07, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:37:02 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 23/10/2019 14:18, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:32:48 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

snip

5W for 24 hours would be 120 watt hours; at 12v = 10 AH - quite a drain on
a small battery,


What do you think the capacity is for a car battery under a very small
load like that?

Erm, roughly the rated value at that load, given it's normally the C20
one.

Rubbish.. a 40AHr batter C20 rate is 24W not 5W.

Possibly, when new and when at 20 DegC and down to 100% discharge.

One fifth the discharge rate will nearly double the capacity of a lead
acid battery.

Agreed, but see above (and depending on what capacity rate you are
referencing).

The point being is that it's quite easy to flatten the battery of an
old vehicle in the cold with just a boot / interior light, overnight.

A mate did exactly that with a Rover SDi and that wasn't that old.

No but the battery or charger were broken and needed fixing.
I haven't said that it wouldn't drain a faulty battery.

On 23/10/2019 18:33, charles wrote:
8

even a modern car left for 10 days in an airport car park can have very low
battery. The alarm system is quite thirsty.


Its not just the alarm system, the computers are still powered up.
You can get a clamp on meter and measure the drain and it can be several
watts without lights or alarm.

On 23/10/2019 22:46, Brian Reay wrote:
T i m wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:32:48 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

snip

5W for 24 hours would be 120 watt hours; at 12v = 10 AH - quite a drain on
a small battery,


What do you think the capacity is for a car battery under a very small
load like that?

Erm, roughly the rated value at that load, given it's normally the C20
one.

Even the cheap nasty ones you used to get would be around 80AHr for that
small a load.

Nope.

An "80AHr" one in a modern car would probably be 160AHr for such a small
load.

Whilst it might be more if the load isn't on the C20 rating for that
capacity, it's unlikely to be double for 'that' (~.4A) load.


There is a formula to calculate it. If my memory serves it is called
Peukerts Formula but I dont remember the actual formula beyond it isnt
linear.

Like you, while I agree the low discharge rate will help improve the
available capacity, it wont be that dramatic. Plus, you should work on
only have the marked capacity actually being available, unless you want to
risk damaging the battery ( at least if you discharge beyond this point
regularly). Car batteries are not designed to be deep discharged- leisure
batteries are a different matter but can be limited when it comes to peak
currents.

Modern cars are often fitted with remarkably small (in Ahr terms)
batteries. 35-45Ahr isnt uncommon. Im pretty sure my CRV was 45Ahr, my
MX5 35, and my wifes Picanto also 35Ahr. Our daughters often left the
interior light on in the Picanto and my wife found the battery was dead the
next morning.




Needs fixing then, buy her a new battery before she gets stranded.

On 24/10/2019 09:21, Tim+ wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 01:10:46 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 23:21:48 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

Yes, we had one. One (5W?) bulb instead of four left on.

I wonder how many people know ... and how many cars do it that if you
leave the indicator indicating right (or left etc) with the ignition off
and lights on side, you just get the single light front and rear on the
right? So two 5W lamps (plus side repeaters) instead of 4
(traditionally).

Was common on Fords for decades. I know it stopped for a bit (not sure
why). No idea if they do it now (and I have a Ford!)

Common in VAG cars. Dont think you have to leave side lights on, you just
need to leave the indicator switch in the appropriate position.


Not legal though.
If you have to have parking lights on they need to be both sides.

On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 14:01:53 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

On 23/10/2019 18:33, charles wrote:
8

even a modern car left for 10 days in an airport car park can have very
low battery. The alarm system is quite thirsty.


Its not just the alarm system, the computers are still powered up.
You can get a clamp on meter and measure the drain and it can be several
watts without lights or alarm.

My car goes into a low drain mode after a day or two. They warn you that
it may take a while to respond to an unlock event. Presumably it polls
less frequently for the key - and possibly other stuff.



--
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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 24/10/2019 14:03, dennis@home wrote:
On 23/10/2019 22:46, Brian Reay wrote:
T i m wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:32:48 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

snip

5W for 24 hours would be 120 watt hours; at 12v = 10 AH - quite a
drain on
a small battery,


What do you think the capacity is for a car battery under a very small
load like that?

Erm, roughly the rated value at that load, given it's normally the C20
one.

Even the cheap nasty ones you used to get would be around 80AHr for
that
small a load.

Nope.

An "80AHr" one in a modern car would probably be 160AHr for such a
small
load.

Whilst it might be more if the load isn't on the C20 rating for that
capacity, it's unlikely to be double for 'that' (~.4A) load.


There is a formula to calculate it. If my memory serves it is called
Peukerts Formula but I dont remember the actual formula beyond it isnt
linear.

Like you, while I agree the low discharge rate will help improve the
available capacity, it wont be that dramatic. Plus, you should work on
only have the marked capacity actually being available, unless you
want to
risk damaging the battery ( at least if you discharge beyond this point
regularly). Car batteries are not designed to be deep discharged- leisure
batteries are a different matter but can be limited when it comes to peak
currents.

Modern cars are often fitted with remarkably small (in Ahr terms)
batteries. 35-45Ahr isnt uncommon. Im pretty sure my CRV was 45Ahr, my
MX5 35, and my wifes Picanto also 35Ahr.Â* Our daughters often left the
interior light on in the Picanto and my wife found the battery was
dead the
next morning.




Needs fixing then, buy her a new battery before she gets stranded.


The car has long since been replaced as we wanted a Smart Car for towing
on a trailer.

Brian Reay wrote:

Modern cars are often fitted with remarkably small (in Ahr terms)
batteries. 35-45Ahr isn’t uncommon. I’m pretty sure my CRV was 45Ahr, my
MX5 35, and my wife’s Picanto also 35Ahr. Our daughters often left the
interior light on in the Picanto and my wife found the battery was dead the
next morning.

However, now that automatic stop/ start is provided more often,
there is a corresponding increase in battery capacity.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
Some of us remember the days of parking lights. No street lighting,
so had to be on all the hours of dark. And with a weedy dynamo.


Indeed, little things you attached to the window ( they clipped over
the edge and stuck out). Single bulb in an egg shaped plastic lens,
red one end, clear the other, held in a black rubber arm which also
formed the clip to go over the window.

Not that I‘m old enough to have used one but I remember my father
using them and fitting a little 2 pin connector to plug them into in
his cars. (No cigarette lighters in cars then.)

Yes, we had one. One (5W?) bulb instead of four left on.

Rather more than that. The number plate light. And all the instrument
lighting too.

--
*If only you'd use your powers for good instead of evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
charles wrote:
Not that I‘m old enough to have used one but I remember my father
using them and fitting a little 2 pin connector to plug them into in
his cars. (No cigarette lighters in cars then.)

my father's light was magnetic. When plugged into the retro-fitted 2 pin
socket it would stick to the bodywork. (Magnalite?)

Father had one permanently fitted and wired in. With a switch on the dash.
But then he did work for a garage.

--
* What do they call a coffee break at the Lipton Tea Company? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
charles wrote:
I wonder how many people know ... and how many cars do it that if you
leave the indicator indicating right (or left etc) with the ignition
off and lights on side, you just get the single light front and rear
on the right? So two 5W lamps (plus side repeaters) instead of 4
(traditionally).

My 1971 Cortina III did that.


It tended to be a function on German cars - or those designed in Germany.

Looking at my SD1, the indicator switch uses the same body as one for
export with that parking light function - but with the needed contacts etc
missing. And a different wiring loom.

--
*I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 01:10:46 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 23:21:48 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

Yes, we had one. One (5W?) bulb instead of four left on.

I wonder how many people know ... and how many cars do it that if you
leave the indicator indicating right (or left etc) with the ignition off
and lights on side, you just get the single light front and rear on the
right? So two 5W lamps (plus side repeaters) instead of 4
(traditionally).

Was common on Fords for decades. I know it stopped for a bit (not sure
why). No idea if they do it now (and I have a Ford!)

German regs. Both my last and current cars have it.

--
*By the time a man is wise enough to watch his step, he's too old to go anywhere.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
Tim+ wrote:
Was common on Fords for decades. I know it stopped for a bit (not sure
why). No idea if they do it now (and I have a Ford!)

Common in VAG cars. Don‘t think you have to leave side lights on, you
just need to leave the indicator switch in the appropriate position.

You have to switch off the lights and the ignition. Mine gives a warning
'parking lights on' when you open the driver's door to leave the car.

--
*I don't have a license to kill, but I do have a learner's permit.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
even a modern car left for 10 days in an airport car park can have very low
battery. The alarm system is quite thirsty.


Its not just the alarm system, the computers are still powered up.
You can get a clamp on meter and measure the drain and it can be several
watts without lights or alarm.

One even more obvious thing. The remote lock/unlock. Requires an always
powered receiver. The radio often also has a memory which is lost with no
power.

--
*Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
even a modern car left for 10 days in an airport car park can have very
low
battery. The alarm system is quite thirsty.


Its not just the alarm system, the computers are still powered up.
You can get a clamp on meter and measure the drain and it can be several
watts without lights or alarm.

One even more obvious thing. The remote lock/unlock. Requires an always
powered receiver. The radio often also has a memory which is lost with no
power.

These days, why do radios still lose their memory when the power goes off.
Non-volatile flash memory is so cheap that you'd think devices would be
designed to use it for things like preset station memories. Obviously if the
radio has an anti-theft code, loss of power still needs to trigger a
challenge for that, so the radio is useless unless the thief discovers the
code.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
I wonder how many people know ... and how many cars do it that if you
leave the indicator indicating right (or left etc) with the ignition
off
and lights on side, you just get the single light front and rear on the
right? So two 5W lamps (plus side repeaters) instead of 4
(traditionally).

Was common on Fords for decades. I know it stopped for a bit (not sure
why). No idea if they do it now (and I have a Ford!)

Common in VAG cars. Dont think you have to leave side lights on, you
just
need to leave the indicator switch in the appropriate position.


Not legal though.
If you have to have parking lights on they need to be both sides.

Has that always been the case or is it a fairly recent law which posts-dates
the time when clip-on red/white parking lights and indicator-operated
one-sided side/tail lights were common?

On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:59:04 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 23/10/2019 18:07, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 15:37:02 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 23/10/2019 14:18, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 23 Oct 2019 13:32:48 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:

snip

5W for 24 hours would be 120 watt hours; at 12v = 10 AH - quite a drain on
a small battery,


What do you think the capacity is for a car battery under a very small
load like that?

Erm, roughly the rated value at that load, given it's normally the C20
one.

Rubbish.. a 40AHr batter C20 rate is 24W not 5W.

Possibly, when new and when at 20 DegC and down to 100% discharge.

One fifth the discharge rate will nearly double the capacity of a lead
acid battery.

Agreed, but see above (and depending on what capacity rate you are
referencing).

The point being is that it's quite easy to flatten the battery of an
old vehicle in the cold with just a boot / interior light, overnight.

A mate did exactly that with a Rover SDi and that wasn't that old.

No but the battery or charger were broken and needed fixing.

The battery may have been old but otherwise functional if used within
it's normal constraints (like not leaving an interior light on
overnight).

I haven't said that it wouldn't drain a faulty battery.

It wasn't a faulty batter, it wasn't a battery at 100%, like many
batteries aren't. It was able to cope with it's *normal* day to day
duties, just not an extreme case, just like many 'not new' batteries
on many perfectly otherwise functional vehicles.

At what point off 100% capacity would you consider a battery to be
cr@p, 50, 75, 99%?

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 24 Oct 2019 13:04:33 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
I once just stopped at the side of the road outside a shop and because
I was only putting something though the letter box, just closed the
car door. A couple seconds later I heard it central lock itself (with
all the keys now locked inside). Whilst I had a spare set at home, I
couldn't get in till the Mrs was available but considering it was a
Honda under the Rover badges, went into my local motorcycle shop and
borrowed (with permission) a Honda key from a 125 Honda motorbike. It
opened the car straight away. ;-)

More 'public' was when it immobilised itself (I didn't have an
immobiliser fob etc) just as we were supposed to be driving off the
I.O.W ferry. ;-(

Embarrassing.Meh, I was used to it and ...

I bet you held up the whole queue in the IOW ferry :-(

Others might have but because I was used to it and carried a tool
suitable for fixing it (my Leatherman PST II), I was able to
de-immobilise it before it became an actual issue (eg, they cleared
that level right to left rather than left to right and by which time I
was ready to go).

The
nearest I've done to causing a major hold-up was when my clutch cable
snapped as I was setting off when I was the lead car at traffic lights.

Ouch.

Because this made the car stall in-gear, there was no way to get the car
into neutral so it was jammed solid. And because the car was on a slight
slope, it was difficult to rock the car uphill to relieve the pressure on
the transmission that was jamming the gear lever. Eventually two burly guys
came to help and were able to move the car uphill to let me put it in
neutral, so I could roll backwards out of the way.

;-)

I was once behind a car that wouldn't start as it was about to drive off the
Lymington/Yarmouth IOW ferry and I was impressed with how quickly the port
staff arranged a vehicle to tow it clear so everyone else could get off. It
must be a common occurrence for them to have a towing vehicle readily
available.

That was partly why I wasn't particularly worried, I'm sure they have
seen it all before and once launched down the ramp you would no longer
be their problem. ;-)


When I got a house and a car of my own, I very quickly learned the habit of
always keeping the keys in my pocket apart from when they were in the front
door lock or the car's ignition - and always removing the car keys (and,
nowadays, locking the car) whenever I got out, even for a brief instant.

I can be like that, depending on where we are.

I
used to leave my car unlocked (though not with the keys in) while I went
into the kiosk to pay for fuel;

As many people do I'm sure?

not any more!

Is there a reason may I ask?


So far I've not managed to lock myself out of my house/car, and I very
rarely lose my keys because *by definition* they are in my pocket if they
are not in the lock that they operate.

I tend to pocket any keys and have sometimes gone off with other
peoples keys because of that. ;-(

It means that if I ever have to leave the house in a hurry (eg fire, flood
etc) then I will always have my keys - as long as I have time to get dressed
;-) And even if I didn't, I'd know where to grab my trousers on the way out
so I had my keys.

;-)

I'm probably unusual: a lot of people empty their keys out of their pockets
at night and hang them on a rack (implicitly 'labelled' "car thieves, here
are the keys"),

We do typically put them down in a single place, well away from the
front door and not labeled.

and also put their keys down somewhere while they are doing
something else.

Sometimes.

I wish I had a tenner for every time we've been about to go
out and SWMBO says "where are my keys" and we have to go on a hunt for them.

Mine generally has a place for everything and everything in it's
place. She seems to be changing now though ... ;-(

OK, I'm as bad with my reading glasses - now I need them even for using the
computer and cutting up veg for dinner, as well as for reading, I really
ought to put them on a cord round my neck, except that looks naff and like
something my grandpa used to do ;-)

I wear my readers all the time and can even see better when driving
.... much to many peoples confusion ...

Cheers, T i m

p.s. The clutch cable snapped on the Sierra but luckily when rolling
so we were able to drive a bit to a side turning and stop.

Again, the Leatherman PST II was all I needed to replace the cable
with the spare I carried and all was well.

The cam belt snapped whilst waiting at some lights but my garage
owning mate was able to pop out and tow me the couple of miles home, I
fitted a new belt and was back up and running in around an hour.
Luckily the 2L Pinto was a 'safe' engine ...