My garage is not joined to the house, a metre wide path
separates it.

At the moment power to the garage is via a 13 amp
plug-in socket inside the house, with a short length
of 16 amp flexible core which goes into a back box
containing a choc bloc connector where it joins
some 2.5 t&e that goes through the wall, under the
path (inside a piece of gas pipe !!) and into
the garage.

Originally it was just a spur off the single house ring main
(1976 build) and done before I came here, including the use
of gas pipe as a conduit. In fact even the main EDF incomer
enters the house under the front door inside some yellow
gas pipe, along the top of the slab next to the party wall
and up into the wylex meter box. Only 4 inches of screed
'protected' this cable. Obviously done by a professional
SEEboard electrician.

I have added the 13 amp plug so that the gge is now a
'portable appliance'.

If I proceed with the EDF car tarriff and their £299 charger
what sort of cable would this require ?.

The CU is about 10 metres from the point where the charger
could be fitted. Maybe 12 at most.

The cable would come through the void above the lounge ceiling
through the cavity wall, down the outside of the house, under the
path and up into the garage. I guess this would mean SWA but does
that mean an additional box is needed next to the CU to terminate
the SWA with a gland ?. Or do modern metal CU's accomodate a
cable termination like this ?.

I might as well use this to provide garage power and light too
but at some point someone will demolish the garage because that
would allow space for a 2-story 12 metre by 2.5 metre side
extension, so an economic solution might be better.

On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 14:47:12 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
My garage is not joined to the house, a metre wide path
separates it.

At only one metre gap, could you use overhead conduit with T&E inside it?

Owain

On 28/08/2019 15:11, wrote:
On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 14:47:12 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
My garage is not joined to the house, a metre wide path
separates it.

At only one metre gap, could you use overhead conduit with T&E inside it?

Owain


Not sure. The dpc of the garage is about 3 brick courses higher
than the house.

Do you mean core drill the garage and house and have some 38 mm
conduit,about 1.5 metres long going right through both walls (*)and
dead level (and siliconed in ) ?.

(*) at the height of the void above lounge ceiling .

There is a 38 mm black conduit under the garage floor and it runs
parallel to the 4 inch salt glazed pipe that holds the 3/4 inch
gas pipe as it exits the the garage, under the path and up inside
the lounge, where it used to feed the backboiler and thence
to the kitchen.

Exactly where this 38 mm plastic conduit goes is a mystery.
It points in the direction of the wylex wall box in the hall,
but seems to be empty. Strange.

On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 15:26:14 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
At only one metre gap, could you use overhead conduit with T&E inside it?
Do you mean core drill the garage and house and have some 38 mm
conduit,about 1.5 metres long going right through both walls (*)and
dead level (and siliconed in ) ?.

It wouldn't have to be level, and you could have an inverted U if you want more headroom. Surface box on wall, conduit up over and down to surface box on other side.

Steel conduit costs, but is quite highly reusable, or of there's little risk of it being damaged PVC conduit might be acceptable. The main thing is it would avoid SWA.

Owain

On 28/08/2019 16:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 15:26:14 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
At only one metre gap, could you use overhead conduit with T&E inside it?
Do you mean core drill the garage and house and have some 38 mm
conduit,about 1.5 metres long going right through both walls (*)and
dead level (and siliconed in ) ?.

It wouldn't have to be level, and you could have an inverted U if you want more headroom. Surface box on wall, conduit up over and down to surface box on other side.

Steel conduit costs, but is quite highly reusable, or of there's little risk of it being damaged PVC conduit might be acceptable. The main thing is it would avoid SWA.

Owain


I've just taken another look. Despite the gge dpc being higher tha the
house, the flat roof is below the level of the house joists, so quite a
downhill slope would be needed, so water would track into the garage.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 28/08/2019 16:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 15:26:14 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
At only one metre gap, could you use overhead conduit with T&E inside it?
Do you mean core drill the garage and house and have some 38 mm
conduit,about 1.5 metres long going right through both walls (*)and
dead level (and siliconed in ) ?.

It wouldn't have to be level, and you could have an inverted U if you want more headroom. Surface box on wall, conduit up over and down to surface box on other side.

Steel conduit costs, but is quite highly reusable, or of there's little risk of it being damaged PVC conduit might be acceptable. The main thing is it would avoid SWA.

Owain


I've just taken another look. Despite the gge dpc being higher tha the
house, the flat roof is below the level of the house joists, so quite a
downhill slope would be needed, so water would track into the garage.

not if you make a drip loop/

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 14:47:12 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
My garage is not joined to the house, a metre wide path
separates it.

At the moment power to the garage is via a 13 amp
plug-in socket inside the house, with a short length
of 16 amp flexible core which goes into a back box
containing a choc bloc connector where it joins
some 2.5 t&e that goes through the wall, under the
path (inside a piece of gas pipe !!) and into
the garage.

Originally it was just a spur off the single house ring main
(1976 build) and done before I came here, including the use
of gas pipe as a conduit. In fact even the main EDF incomer
enters the house under the front door inside some yellow
gas pipe, along the top of the slab next to the party wall
and up into the wylex meter box. Only 4 inches of screed
'protected' this cable. Obviously done by a professional
SEEboard electrician.

I have added the 13 amp plug so that the gge is now a
'portable appliance'.

If I proceed with the EDF car tarriff and their £299 charger
what sort of cable would this require ?.

The CU is about 10 metres from the point where the charger
could be fitted. Maybe 12 at most.

The cable would come through the void above the lounge ceiling
through the cavity wall, down the outside of the house, under the
path and up into the garage. I guess this would mean SWA but does
that mean an additional box is needed next to the CU to terminate
the SWA with a gland ?. Or do modern metal CU's accomodate a
cable termination like this ?.

I might as well use this to provide garage power and light too
but at some point someone will demolish the garage because that
would allow space for a 2-story 12 metre by 2.5 metre side
extension, so an economic solution might be better.

You might want to consider economy seven and a timer on your charger.
Then you could charge up overnight on cheap electricity which I do when PV power is low.

Take care, if you have economy seven, they put day price of electricity.
You need to do some calculations. Including what else you could do by night..

harry wrote:

You might want to consider economy seven

The EDF "car" tariff he's considering offers cheap rate for 98 hours a
week, but E7 only offers 49 hours a week.

On 28/08/2019 16:40, Andy Burns wrote:
harry wrote:

You might want to consider economy seven

The EDF "car" tariff he's considering offers cheap rate for 98 hours a
week, but E7 only offers 49 hours a week.

Indeed. The all-weekend half price is tempting. even the peak rate
is less than the std variable rate.

And as the FAQ states - "you can use it anywhere in the house".

On 28/08/2019 19:48, Andrew wrote:
On 28/08/2019 16:40, Andy Burns wrote:
harry wrote:

You might want to consider economy seven

The EDF "car" tariff he's considering offers cheap rate for 98 hours a
week, but E7 only offers 49 hours a week.

Indeed. The all-weekend half price is tempting. even the peak rate
is less than the std variable rate.

And as the FAQ states - "you can use it anywhere in the house".

Fit a meter and power the neighbours electrics at the weekend. Charge a
mid point between what you pay and they pay and make some free money....

--
Adam

On 28/08/2019 14:47, Andrew wrote:
My garage is not joined to the house, a metre wide path
separates it.

At the moment power to the garage is via a 13 amp
plug-in socket inside the house, with a short length
of 16 amp flexible core which goes into a back box
containing a choc bloc connector where it joins
some 2.5 t&e that goes through the wall, under the
path (inside a piece of gas pipe !!) and into
the garage.

Originally it was just a spur off the single house ring main
(1976 build) and done before I came here, including the use
of gas pipe as a conduit. In fact even the main EDF incomer
enters the house under the front door inside some yellow
gas pipe, along the top of the slab next to the party wall
and up into the wylex meter box. Only 4 inches of screed
'protected' this cable. Obviously done by a professional
SEEboard electrician.

I have added the 13 amp plug so that the gge is now a
'portable appliance'.

If I proceed with the EDF car tarriff and their £299 charger
what sort of cable would this require ?.

The CU is about 10 metres from the point where the charger
could be fitted. Maybe 12 at most.

The cable would come through the void above the lounge ceiling
through the cavity wall, down the outside of the house, under the
path and up into the garage. I guess this would mean SWA but does
that mean an additional box is needed next to the CU to terminate
the SWA with a gland ?. Or do modern metal CU's accomodate a
cable termination like this ?.

I might as well use this to provide garage power and light too
but at some point someone will demolish the garage because that
would allow space for a 2-story 12 metre by 2.5 metre side
extension, so an economic solution might be better.

As the installation would be arranged by EDF or EO why not ask them to
tell you what they'd do within the fixed price of £299, what if any
prior work or extra charges would arise in your circs, if you'd get 3.6
or 7 kW, etc


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Robin wrote:
As the installation would be arranged by EDF or EO why not ask them to
tell you what they'd do within the fixed price of £299, what if any
prior work or extra charges would arise in your circs, if you'd get 3.6
or 7 kW, etc

What you get is:
https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/defa..._point_tcs.pdf

quote
€˜Standard Installation means an installation that can be carried out at
the Site without any additional site preparation works, man hours or
additional equipment to install the Equipment and shall include, but not be
limited, to the following:

a. fitting of the Equipment on to an internal or
external, existing brick or plaster wall, or to another suitably robust
permanent structure at the Site;
b. up to 10 metres of cable, neatly clipped
to the wall(s) or run in suitable trunking fixed to the wall between the
main electricity distribution board and the Equipment;
c. fitting and testing
of electrical connections and protections required;
d. an additional individual consumer unit, if required;
e. installation of a Type C MCB or a Type A RCD/RCBO in an enclosure;
f. an earth rod in soft ground, if required;
/quote

"Non-standard installations may incur an additional fee and will be
discussed and agreed with you prior to your installation."

And the chargers they offer are 7kW, they don't offer 3kW.


The above covers roughly everything except overhead or underground trunking.
So you could ask them to quote for the additional works, or offer to provide
suitable conduit yourself into which the standard install will fit.

Theo

On 28/08/2019 18:38, Theo wrote:
Robin wrote:
As the installation would be arranged by EDF or EO why not ask them to
tell you what they'd do within the fixed price of £299, what if any
prior work or extra charges would arise in your circs, if you'd get 3.6
or 7 kW, etc

What you get is:
https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/defa..._point_tcs.pdf

quote
€˜Standard Installation means an installation that can be carried out at
the Site without any additional site preparation works, man hours or
additional equipment to install the Equipment and shall include, but not be
limited, to the following:

a. fitting of the Equipment on to an internal or
external, existing brick or plaster wall, or to another suitably robust
permanent structure at the Site;
b. up to 10 metres of cable, neatly clipped
to the wall(s) or run in suitable trunking fixed to the wall between the
main electricity distribution board and the Equipment;
c. fitting and testing
of electrical connections and protections required;
d. an additional individual consumer unit, if required;
e. installation of a Type C MCB or a Type A RCD/RCBO in an enclosure;
f. an earth rod in soft ground, if required;
/quote

"Non-standard installations may incur an additional fee and will be
discussed and agreed with you prior to your installation."

Thanks. (I am ashamed as I did search the EDF site for the T&Cs but
failed to find that).









--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 28/08/2019 18:58, Robin wrote:
On 28/08/2019 18:38, Theo wrote:
Robin wrote:
As the installation would be arranged by EDF or EO why not ask them to
tell you what they'd do within the fixed price of £299, what if any
prior work or extra charges would arise in your circs, if you'd get 3.6
or 7 kW, etc

What you get is:
https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/defa..._point_tcs.pdf

quote
Â* €˜StandardÂ* Installation means an installation that can be carried
out at
the Site without any additional site preparation works, man hours or
additional equipment to install the Equipment and shall include, but
not be
limited, to the following:

a. fitting of the Equipment on to an internal or
external, existing brick or plaster wall, or to another suitably robust
permanent structure at the Site;
b. up to 10 metres of cable, neatly clipped
to the wall(s) or run in suitable trunking fixed to the wall between the
main electricity distribution board and the Equipment;
c. fitting and testing
of electrical connections and protections required;
d. an additional individual consumer unit, if required;
e. installation of a Type C MCB or a Type A RCD/RCBO in an enclosure;
f. an earth rod in soft ground, if required;
/quote

"Non-standard installations may incur an additional fee and will be
discussed and agreed with you prior to your installation."

Thanks.Â* (I am ashamed as I did search the EDF site for the T&Cs but
failed to find that).










Check your email

--
Adam

On 28/08/2019 19:39, ARW wrote:
On 28/08/2019 18:58, Robin wrote:
On 28/08/2019 18:38, Theo wrote:
Robin wrote:
As the installation would be arranged by EDF or EO why not ask them to
tell you what they'd do within the fixed price of £299, what if any
prior work or extra charges would arise in your circs, if you'd get 3.6
or 7 kW, etc

What you get is:
https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/defa..._point_tcs.pdf

quote
Â* €˜StandardÂ* Installation means an installation that can be carried
out at
the Site without any additional site preparation works, man hours or
additional equipment to install the Equipment and shall include, but
not be
limited, to the following:

a. fitting of the Equipment on to an internal or
external, existing brick or plaster wall, or to another suitably robust
permanent structure at the Site;
b. up to 10 metres of cable, neatly clipped
to the wall(s) or run in suitable trunking fixed to the wall between the
main electricity distribution board and the Equipment;
c. fitting and testing
of electrical connections and protections required;
d. an additional individual consumer unit, if required;
e. installation of a Type C MCB or a Type A RCD/RCBO in an enclosure;
f. an earth rod in soft ground, if required;
/quote

"Non-standard installations may incur an additional fee and will be
discussed and agreed with you prior to your installation."

Thanks.Â* (I am ashamed as I did search the EDF site for the T&Cs but
failed to find that).










Check your email


I noticed a house in the village with one of these charge points.
It as on the outside front corner, and black round cable about 15 mm
diameter goes up the wall, along the top of the bay window, and then
I can't see where it goes. This must be SWA ?.

On 28/08/2019 18:38, Theo wrote:
Robin wrote:
As the installation would be arranged by EDF or EO why not ask them to
tell you what they'd do within the fixed price of £299, what if any
prior work or extra charges would arise in your circs, if you'd get 3.6
or 7 kW, etc

What you get is:
https://www.edfenergy.com/sites/defa..._point_tcs.pdf

quote
€˜Standard Installation means an installation that can be carried out at
the Site without any additional site preparation works, man hours or
additional equipment to install the Equipment and shall include, but not be
limited, to the following:

a. fitting of the Equipment on to an internal or
external, existing brick or plaster wall, or to another suitably robust
permanent structure at the Site;
b. up to 10 metres of cable, neatly clipped
to the wall(s) or run in suitable trunking fixed to the wall between the
main electricity distribution board and the Equipment;
c. fitting and testing
of electrical connections and protections required;
d. an additional individual consumer unit, if required;
e. installation of a Type C MCB or a Type A RCD/RCBO in an enclosure;
f. an earth rod in soft ground, if required;
/quote

"Non-standard installations may incur an additional fee and will be
discussed and agreed with you prior to your installation."

And the chargers they offer are 7kW, they don't offer 3kW.


The above covers roughly everything except overhead or underground trunking.
So you could ask them to quote for the additional works, or offer to provide
suitable conduit yourself into which the standard install will fit.

Theo


Mmmmm :-

1.12 The Customer acknowledges that in order to
remotely control and manage their Equipment and
to take up other services, offers and discounts that
may be offered by EDF Energy the Customer may
be required to download and install an Application
to their smart phone and/or a tablet device,

I don't have a smart phone, or a tablet :-)

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 19:57:47 +0100, Andrew wrote:

1.12 The Customer acknowledges that in order to
remotely control and manage their Equipment and
to take up other services, offers and discounts that
may be offered by EDF Energy the Customer may
be required to download and install an Application
to their smart phone and/or a tablet device,

I don't have a smart phone, or a tablet :-)

Well you'll just have to walk to the garage to see if you car is
charged rather than check "online" via the app. Which means the
charger must have a 'net connection..

Everything else is under the word "may" so is either not yet
avialable or just a marketing departments dream.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 28/08/2019 14:47, Andrew wrote:
My garage is not joined to the house, a metre wide path
separates it.


There be some catches. Do you own or are you about to buy an EV?

It seem that you need to be available for the OLEV grant in order to get
the "special offer".

https://assets.publishing.service.go...lers-v-2-3.pdf




--
Adam

On 28/08/2019 19:50, ARW wrote:
On 28/08/2019 14:47, Andrew wrote:
My garage is not joined to the house, a metre wide path
separates it.


There be some catches. Do you own or are you about to buy an EV?

It seem that you need to be available for the OLEV grant in order to get
the "special offer".

https://assets.publishing.service.go...lers-v-2-3.pdf






Well I am genuinely thinking about it, since I only do a low
mileage.

What would be the typical cost of installing one of those
'£299' charge points without the grant ?. Have you installed any ?.

If some EV cars need an AC charger and some a DC charger (as I
interpret the charger at the local library). How do these
domestic charge points do it ?.

On 28/08/2019 20:02, Andrew wrote:
On 28/08/2019 19:50, ARW wrote:
On 28/08/2019 14:47, Andrew wrote:
My garage is not joined to the house, a metre wide path
separates it.


There be some catches. Do you own or are you about to buy an EV?

It seem that you need to be available for the OLEV grant in order to
get the "special offer".

https://assets.publishing.service.go...lers-v-2-3.pdf






Well I am genuinely thinking about it, since I only do a low
mileage.

What would be the typical cost of installing one of those
'£299' charge points without the grant ?. Have you installed any ?.

We joined the OLEV charging "let's see how much money we can get for
free off the government whilst they are dishing out the grants scheme"
last year. Done a few, but it seem South Yorkshire is a bit slow on the
uptake of EVs ATM.

If some EV cars need an AC charger and some a DC charger (as I
interpret the charger at the local library). How do these
domestic charge points do it ?.

You will not be needing or getting a DC charger if you go ahead (or are
eligible to get one at that price). You will be getting a 32A AC supply.




--
Adam

On 28/08/2019 20:21, ARW wrote:
On 28/08/2019 20:02, Andrew wrote:
On 28/08/2019 19:50, ARW wrote:
On 28/08/2019 14:47, Andrew wrote:
My garage is not joined to the house, a metre wide path
separates it.


There be some catches. Do you own or are you about to buy an EV?

It seem that you need to be available for the OLEV grant in order to
get the "special offer".

https://assets.publishing.service.go...lers-v-2-3.pdf






Well I am genuinely thinking about it, since I only do a low
mileage.

What would be the typical cost of installing one of those
'£299' charge points without the grant ?. Have you installed any ?.

We joined the OLEV charging "let's see how much money we can get for
free off the government whilst they are dishing out the grants scheme"
last year. Done a few, but it seem South Yorkshire is a bit slow on the
uptake of EVs ATM.

If some EV cars need an AC charger and some a DC charger (as I
interpret the charger at the local library). How do these
domestic charge points do it ?.

You will not be needing or getting a DC charger if you go ahead (or are
eligible to get one at that price). You will be getting a 32A AC supply.





OK, so presumably at any property where there already such a supply to
the garage (for other purposes/'business'/diy) you could simply use
the existing cable ?.

Or would you run another entirely separate feed ?. Just curious.

On 29/08/2019 12:15, Andrew wrote:
On 28/08/2019 20:21, ARW wrote:

If some EV cars need an AC charger and some a DC charger (as I
interpret the charger at the local library). How do these
domestic charge points do it ?.

You will not be needing or getting a DC charger if you go ahead (or
are eligible to get one at that price). You will be getting a 32A AC
supply.





OK, so presumably at any property where there already such a supply to
the garage (for other purposes/'business'/diy) you could simply use
the existing cable ?.

Or would you run another entirely separate feed ?. Just curious.

We have not done one yet that has not needed a supply back to the main
CU. But these have all been mode 3 (32A) supplies.

I believe the mode 2 (16A) also qualifies for the £500 grant.

Basically a 13A socket on an extension lead will not save you £500.

I'll dig out my course books over the weekend if you want more info.
Trouble is it's a bank holiday week so I have to do 5 day works in 4
days and the schools are open on Monday so every school job we have done
must be completed and signed off by tomorrow night.


--
Adam

On 29/08/2019 12:15, Andrew wrote:
On 28/08/2019 20:21, ARW wrote:
On 28/08/2019 20:02, Andrew wrote:
On 28/08/2019 19:50, ARW wrote:
On 28/08/2019 14:47, Andrew wrote:
My garage is not joined to the house, a metre wide path
separates it.


There be some catches. Do you own or are you about to buy an EV?

It seem that you need to be available for the OLEV grant in order to
get the "special offer".

https://assets.publishing.service.go...lers-v-2-3.pdf






Well I am genuinely thinking about it, since I only do a low
mileage.

What would be the typical cost of installing one of those
'£299' charge points without the grant ?. Have you installed any ?.

We joined the OLEV charging "let's see how much money we can get for
free off the government whilst they are dishing out the grants scheme"
last year. Done a few, but it seem South Yorkshire is a bit slow on
the uptake of EVs ATM.

If some EV cars need an AC charger and some a DC charger (as I
interpret the charger at the local library). How do these
domestic charge points do it ?.

You will not be needing or getting a DC charger if you go ahead (or
are eligible to get one at that price). You will be getting a 32A AC
supply.





OK, so presumably at any property where there already such a supply to
the garage (for other purposes/'business'/diy) you could simply use
the existing cable ?.

Or would you run another entirely separate feed ?. Just curious.

My money would be on a separate feed. It's not just a 32A load, but a
32A continuous load. Compare this with a 32A ring main, which which may
deliver 32A when you put the kettle, while the iron heats up, but for
the majority of the time it will be a fraction of that.

On Wednesday, 28 August 2019 20:02:45 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 28/08/2019 19:50, ARW wrote:
On 28/08/2019 14:47, Andrew wrote:
My garage is not joined to the house, a metre wide path
separates it.


There be some catches. Do you own or are you about to buy an EV?

It seem that you need to be available for the OLEV grant in order to get
the "special offer".

https://assets.publishing.service.go...lers-v-2-3.pdf






Well I am genuinely thinking about it, since I only do a low
mileage.

What would be the typical cost of installing one of those
'£299' charge points without the grant ?. Have you installed any ?.

If some EV cars need an AC charger and some a DC charger (as I
interpret the charger at the local library). How do these
domestic charge points do it ?.

Most EVs have two charging sockets.
The low/medium charge socket takes AC, rectified by the car's on board rectifier. (The same one used to regeneratively charge your battery on a journey.) This can be as low as 2Kw for overnight charging.

The other "fast" socket is DC from something like 60kW supply, the sort of thing you see on motorway service stations. You won't find this in domestic houses.