On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 13:10:19 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:

Just noticed I have lost all the horizontal channels on both satellite
rxs......is it as simple as a duff lnb or coupled with the fact I am getting
a shock off the outer of all the f connectors could it be a cable/plug fault
.....I get the shock with either rx switched on or both on so probably not
the rx.????...not got any test equipment here at the static van so probably
start with bringing down a new four way lnb the next time I come down ?
....if that doesn't cure it check all the cables for shorts? ....anybody had
this fault?...

According to Wikipedia, the LNB gets powered by 13V DC for vertical
polarisation and 18V DC for horizontal. The tingle you feel is due to
the receiver not being earthed, and some mains voltage is getting to
you via stray capacitance, hopefully not enough to harm you.

Something must be stopping the supply from getting to 18V, and I would
think it's your receiving device that's at fault, not the LNB(s).

It might be easier to try a different receiver before fiddling with
the LNB. You could earth the receiver metalwork to eliminate those
unpleasant shocks.
--
Dave W

On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 22:34:11 +0100, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jun 2019 15:24:15 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Just noticed I have lost all the horizontal channels on both satellite
rxs......is it as simple as a duff lnb or coupled with the fact I am
getting a shock off the outer of all the f connectors could it be a
cable/plug fault .....I get the shock with either rx switched on or
both on so probably not the rx.????...not got any test equipment here
at the static van so probably start with bringing down a new four way
lnb the next time I come down ? ....if that doesn't cure it check all
the cables for shorts? ....anybody had this fault?...

Surely there must be lots of experts on Sky in your trailer park?

Not a lot of use without an interpreter.

If the LNB supples the power to the cable a Sky expert isn't a lot of
use.

One of those Crystal danglers would be more appropriate, you know,
start a crystal swinging on a string.

Either that or prayer is good in such situations.

Daleks are still the most plausible really, they allow the laws of
physics to hold, no matter how unlikely the scenario.

AB
Have you considered the possibility that a voltage originating in the
receiver might be connected to the wrong place by a fault in the LNB?

Through a coax cable?

Outer, Inner and one polarisation works anyway.

G4's came after people had to know what they were doing with RF.

AB

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 17:20:05 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:


"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...


That's AC leakage in the receiver. Normal.

Bill

BOTH receivers..?!?!!????

each being totally disconnected from power in turn ???????


But both being connected to the LNB at each time shrug?

Cheers, T i m

suppose ...

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
On 09/06/2019 17:20, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...


That's AC leakage in the receiver. Normal.

Bill

BOTH receivers..?!?!!????

each being totally disconnected from power in turn ???????


Yes. Disconnect both at once. If you still get a shock from the dish cable
it's static on you, discharging to ground. Got new nylon carpets? I could
tell you a story about a large TV shop where there was a major scare about
earthing etc due to having new carpets. We fixed it with a plant sprayer
filled with water. For a few days anyway!

Bill

definitely NOT static .....

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 23:03:19 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 09/06/2019 17:20, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...


That's AC leakage in the receiver. Normal.

Bill

BOTH receivers..?!?!!????

each being totally disconnected from power in turn ???????


Yes. Disconnect both at once. If you still get a shock from the dish
cable it's static on you, discharging to ground.

snip

I'd say there is a big difference between a shock (single instance)
and tingle (continuous situation)?

Cheers, T i m

indeed...

On 10/06/2019 00:33, Dave W wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 13:10:19 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:

Just noticed I have lost all the horizontal channels on both satellite
rxs......is it as simple as a duff lnb or coupled with the fact I am getting
a shock off the outer of all the f connectors could it be a cable/plug fault
.....I get the shock with either rx switched on or both on so probably not
the rx.????...not got any test equipment here at the static van so probably
start with bringing down a new four way lnb the next time I come down ?
....if that doesn't cure it check all the cables for shorts? ....anybody had
this fault?...

According to Wikipedia, the LNB gets powered by 13V DC for vertical
polarisation and 18V DC for horizontal. The tingle you feel is due to
the receiver not being earthed, and some mains voltage is getting to
you via stray capacitance, hopefully not enough to harm you.

Something must be stopping the supply from getting to 18V, and I would
think it's your receiving device that's at fault, not the LNB(s).

It might be easier to try a different receiver before fiddling with
the LNB. You could earth the receiver metalwork to eliminate those
unpleasant shocks.

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.

Whilts not a hazard, you can definitely feel this and its capable of
blowing circuitry that is earthed if connected to it.




--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

I'd be a little worried at the shock problem before you replace anything
expensive myself. Could be a duff psu something like that.
Brian

--
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"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
Just noticed I have lost all the horizontal channels on both satellite
rxs......is it as simple as a duff lnb or coupled with the fact I am
getting a shock off the outer of all the f connectors could it be a
cable/plug fault .....I get the shock with either rx switched on or both
on so probably not the rx.????...not got any test equipment here at the
static van so probably start with bringing down a new four way lnb the
next time I come down ? ....if that doesn't cure it check all the cables
for shorts? ....anybody had this fault?...

tee hee, well i got the impressiont this this was more than the tingle
effect we often find on non earthed gear. Try earthing it switch on and see
if there is a bang?
Brian
Brian

--
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 13:10:19 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:

Just noticed I have lost all the horizontal channels on both satellite
rxs......is it as simple as a duff lnb or coupled with the fact I am
getting
a shock off the outer of all the f connectors could it be a cable/plug
fault
.....I get the shock with either rx switched on or both on so probably not
the rx.????...not got any test equipment here at the static van so
probably
start with bringing down a new four way lnb the next time I come down ?
....if that doesn't cure it check all the cables for shorts? ....anybody
had
this fault?...


I wouln't think the events are related. A working recceiver has a very
"feelable" ac Voltage on the LNB output.

There is not usually a ground on the receiver and the capacitive
leakage from mains to equipment provides the "tingle". I do ground the
receiver now when setting up a system on damp ground.

With no direct means of measurement a spud will detect Voltage and
polarity.

Plus gives a blue ring.

I did have a discussion with a marine Engineer who said that the spud
had to be a King Edward. I don't actually think this is the case, but
since the introduction of DMM's I never really had reason to check.

AB

That was when the mustard and Cress geminated I guess.
Brian

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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
On 09/06/2019 17:20, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...


That's AC leakage in the receiver. Normal.

Bill

BOTH receivers..?!?!!????

each being totally disconnected from power in turn ???????


Yes. Disconnect both at once. If you still get a shock from the dish cable
it's static on you, discharging to ground. Got new nylon carpets? I could
tell you a story about a large TV shop where there was a major scare about
earthing etc due to having new carpets. We fixed it with a plant sprayer
filled with water. For a few days anyway!

Bill

"tee hee" is copyright me...watch it gaff ...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
tee hee, well i got the impressiont this this was more than the tingle
effect we often find on non earthed gear. Try earthing it switch on and
see if there is a bang?
Brian
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 13:10:19 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:

Just noticed I have lost all the horizontal channels on both satellite
rxs......is it as simple as a duff lnb or coupled with the fact I am
getting
a shock off the outer of all the f connectors could it be a cable/plug
fault
.....I get the shock with either rx switched on or both on so probably
not
the rx.????...not got any test equipment here at the static van so
probably
start with bringing down a new four way lnb the next time I come down ?
....if that doesn't cure it check all the cables for shorts? ....anybody
had
this fault?...


I wouln't think the events are related. A working recceiver has a very
"feelable" ac Voltage on the LNB output.

There is not usually a ground on the receiver and the capacitive
leakage from mains to equipment provides the "tingle". I do ground the
receiver now when setting up a system on damp ground.

With no direct means of measurement a spud will detect Voltage and
polarity.

Plus gives a blue ring.

I did have a discussion with a marine Engineer who said that the spud
had to be a King Edward. I don't actually think this is the case, but
since the introduction of DMM's I never really had reason to check.

AB

Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 22:34:11 +0100, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jun 2019 15:24:15 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Just noticed I have lost all the horizontal channels on both satellite
rxs......is it as simple as a duff lnb or coupled with the fact I am
getting a shock off the outer of all the f connectors could it be a
cable/plug fault .....I get the shock with either rx switched on or
both on so probably not the rx.????...not got any test equipment here
at the static van so probably start with bringing down a new four way
lnb the next time I come down ? ....if that doesn't cure it check all
the cables for shorts? ....anybody had this fault?...

Surely there must be lots of experts on Sky in your trailer park?

Not a lot of use without an interpreter.

If the LNB supples the power to the cable a Sky expert isn't a lot of
use.

One of those Crystal danglers would be more appropriate, you know,
start a crystal swinging on a string.

Either that or prayer is good in such situations.

Daleks are still the most plausible really, they allow the laws of
physics to hold, no matter how unlikely the scenario.

AB
Have you considered the possibility that a voltage originating in the
receiver might be connected to the wrong place by a fault in the LNB?

Through a coax cable?

Outer, Inner and one polarisation works anyway.

G4's came after people had to know what they were doing with RF.


ROTFL

That is priceless.





--
Corbyn & the EU, the Nazis next step: "Our aim was Europe a nation. Our
faith European Socialism" Mosley "My Life" autobiography 1957.

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 22:34:11 +0100, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jun 2019 15:24:15 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Just noticed I have lost all the horizontal channels on both
satellite
rxs......is it as simple as a duff lnb or coupled with the fact I am
getting a shock off the outer of all the f connectors could it be a
cable/plug fault .....I get the shock with either rx switched on or
both on so probably not the rx.????...not got any test equipment here
at the static van so probably start with bringing down a new four way
lnb the next time I come down ? ....if that doesn't cure it check all
the cables for shorts? ....anybody had this fault?...

Surely there must be lots of experts on Sky in your trailer park?

Not a lot of use without an interpreter.

If the LNB supples the power to the cable a Sky expert isn't a lot of
use.

One of those Crystal danglers would be more appropriate, you know,
start a crystal swinging on a string.

Either that or prayer is good in such situations.

Daleks are still the most plausible really, they allow the laws of
physics to hold, no matter how unlikely the scenario.

AB
Have you considered the possibility that a voltage originating in the
receiver might be connected to the wrong place by a fault in the LNB?

Through a coax cable?

Outer, Inner and one polarisation works anyway.

G4's came after people had to know what they were doing with RF.


ROTFL

That is priceless.


we will see....he who laughs last laughs longest....and it is usually
me....tee hee

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 22:34:11 +0100, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Jun 2019 15:24:15 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
Just noticed I have lost all the horizontal channels on both
satellite
rxs......is it as simple as a duff lnb or coupled with the fact I am
getting a shock off the outer of all the f connectors could it be a
cable/plug fault .....I get the shock with either rx switched on or
both on so probably not the rx.????...not got any test equipment
here
at the static van so probably start with bringing down a new four
way
lnb the next time I come down ? ....if that doesn't cure it check
all
the cables for shorts? ....anybody had this fault?...

Surely there must be lots of experts on Sky in your trailer park?

Not a lot of use without an interpreter.

If the LNB supples the power to the cable a Sky expert isn't a lot of
use.

One of those Crystal danglers would be more appropriate, you know,
start a crystal swinging on a string.

Either that or prayer is good in such situations.

Daleks are still the most plausible really, they allow the laws of
physics to hold, no matter how unlikely the scenario.

AB
Have you considered the possibility that a voltage originating in the
receiver might be connected to the wrong place by a fault in the LNB?

Through a coax cable?

Outer, Inner and one polarisation works anyway.

G4's came after people had to know what they were doing with RF.


ROTFL

That is priceless.


we will see....he who laughs last laughs longest....and it is usually
me....tee hee


...but probably not in this case

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 00:33, Dave W wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 13:10:19 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:

Just noticed I have lost all the horizontal channels on both satellite
rxs......is it as simple as a duff lnb or coupled with the fact I am getting
a shock off the outer of all the f connectors could it be a cable/plug fault
.....I get the shock with either rx switched on or both on so probably not
the rx.????...not got any test equipment here at the static van so probably
start with bringing down a new four way lnb the next time I come down ?
....if that doesn't cure it check all the cables for shorts? ....anybody had
this fault?...

According to Wikipedia, the LNB gets powered by 13V DC for vertical
polarisation and 18V DC for horizontal. The tingle you feel is due to
the receiver not being earthed, and some mains voltage is getting to
you via stray capacitance, hopefully not enough to harm you.

Something must be stopping the supply from getting to 18V, and I would
think it's your receiving device that's at fault, not the LNB(s).

It might be easier to try a different receiver before fiddling with
the LNB. You could earth the receiver metalwork to eliminate those
unpleasant shocks.

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.


It shouldnt be designed like that, it is pointless. It doubles the Z
between L&N to dump noise via the Cs (Cs in series rule) and introducing
the stray 110Vac point. As I posted in another group, this situation can
arise due to a fault condition if, for example, the earth at the plug (top)
is lost or somewhere else before the filter.


Whilts not a hazard, you can definitely feel this and its capable of
blowing circuitry that is earthed if connected to it.


Again, it could explain the shock and the failure. Jim would be wise to
rule it out before sticking a new lnb in. Even if it works initially, it
could fail later and hes back to square one, missing Love Island ;-)





--
Corbyn & the EU, the Nazis next step: "Our aim was Europe a nation. Our
faith European Socialism" Mosley "My Life" autobiography 1957.

On 10/06/2019 08:15, Brian Reay wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.


It shouldnt be designed like that, it is pointless. It doubles the Z
between L&N to dump noise via the Cs (Cs in series rule) and introducing
the stray 110Vac point. As I posted in another group, this situation can
arise due to a fault condition if, for example, the earth at the plug (top)
is lost or somewhere else before the filter.

It isn't pointless from an RF POV.
A lot of RF noise is common mode on L & N.

And most RF filters have a L-N cap as well.

e.g.
https://interferencetechnology.com/w...2-1024x543.jpg



Whilts not a hazard, you can definitely feel this and its capable of
blowing circuitry that is earthed if connected to it.


Again, it could explain the shock and the failure. Jim would be wise to
rule it out before sticking a new lnb in. Even if it works initially, it
could fail later and hes back to square one, missing Love Island ;-)


Yup. an unearthed box and cable could absolutely also pick up static or
induceed voltage from nearby lightning strikes that might arc over and
fry the LNB.







--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 08:15, Brian Reay wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.


It shouldnt be designed like that, it is pointless. It doubles the Z
between L&N to dump noise via the Cs (Cs in series rule) and introducing
the stray 110Vac point. As I posted in another group, this situation can
arise due to a fault condition if, for example, the earth at the plug (top)
is lost or somewhere else before the filter.

It isn't pointless from an RF POV.





Read what I posted, carefully. The two Cs would be in series, halving the
overall value (assuming they are the same), that doubles the impedance Z to
decouple the noise. One C would between L&N would be more effective and
avoid the stray 110V AC point.







--
Corbyn & the EU, the Nazis next step: "Our aim was Europe a nation. Our
faith European Socialism" Mosley "My Life" autobiography 1957.

Brian Reay wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 08:15, Brian Reay wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.


It shouldn't be designed like that, it is pointless. It doubles the Z
between L&N to dump noise via the C's (C's in series rule) and introducing
the stray 110Vac point. As I posted in another group, this situation can
arise due to a fault condition if, for example, the earth at the plug (top)
is lost or somewhere else before the filter.

It isn't pointless from an RF POV.





Read what I posted, carefully. The two C's would be in series, halving the
overall value (assuming they are the same), that doubles the impedance Z to
decouple the noise. One C would between L&N would be more effective and
avoid the stray 110V AC point.

It would be more effective for possible differential noise, but totally
ineffective for common mode noise, which is more likely. As someone
said it is common to have both, as well as coupled series inductors and
further capacitors if it is a posh mains filter.

--

Roger Hayter

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
Brian Reay wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 08:15, Brian Reay wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.


It shouldn't be designed like that, it is pointless. It doubles the Z
between L&N to dump noise via the C's (C's in series rule) and
introducing
the stray 110Vac point. As I posted in another group, this situation
can
arise due to a fault condition if, for example, the earth at the plug
(top)
is lost or somewhere else before the filter.

It isn't pointless from an RF POV.





Read what I posted, carefully. The two C's would be in series, halving
the
overall value (assuming they are the same), that doubles the impedance Z
to
decouple the noise. One C would between L&N would be more effective and
avoid the stray 110V AC point.

It would be more effective for possible differential noise, but totally
ineffective for common mode noise, which is more likely. As someone
said it is common to have both, as well as coupled series inductors and
further capacitors if it is a posh mains filter.

don't know what you are all arguing about other than you love it and try to
belittle people.....it felt like the voltage that goes up the cable to the
LNB as I have felt it many times sticking my finger across the inner and
outer of the plug...it is not static and doubt if it is the other things you
are discussing...anyway pack it in until I get back down with a new free LNB
........ you all want to show how cleaver you all are except roger and that
is why I keep going on about professionals in ham radio......I think the
voltage is going into the duff side of the LNB ie the dead horizontal and
somehow appearing on the outer of the plugs etc....anyway I will let you all
know and I will tell the truth about my findings......

In article ,
says...

Got new nylon carpets?
I could tell you a story about a large TV shop where there was a major
scare about earthing etc due to having new carpets. We fixed it with a
plant sprayer filled with water. For a few days anyway!


Had this when we moved into a brand new office block.

This was 1970, so all the phones were on key and lamp units
which were earthed, of course. Ditto electric typewriteres and
our cable TV distibution system.

Anything metal could give you a belt, even something as small
as a door handle. I remember getting an unexpectedly hefty
belt when I touched a 4-drawer filing cabinet!

I got into the habit of touching anything metal with my finger
nails by just flicking my fingers at them - I still heard the
click of the discharge but didn't feel anything!

I never could work out why this method worked but work it did
and it was rare for me to get a belt after I discovered it!

Similarly, inserting a key into a door lock produced the spark
but, again, you didn't feel it.

Things improved after a regular spraying routine was
introduced.

--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
Brian Reay wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 08:15, Brian Reay wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.


It shouldn't be designed like that, it is pointless. It doubles the Z
between L&N to dump noise via the C's (C's in series rule) and
introducing
the stray 110Vac point. As I posted in another group, this situation
can
arise due to a fault condition if, for example, the earth at the plug
(top)
is lost or somewhere else before the filter.

It isn't pointless from an RF POV.





Read what I posted, carefully. The two C's would be in series, halving
the
overall value (assuming they are the same), that doubles the impedance Z
to
decouple the noise. One C would between L&N would be more effective and
avoid the stray 110V AC point.

It would be more effective for possible differential noise, but totally
ineffective for common mode noise, which is more likely. As someone
said it is common to have both, as well as coupled series inductors and
further capacitors if it is a posh mains filter.

don't know what you are all arguing about other than you love it and try to
belittle people.....it felt like the voltage that goes up the cable to the
LNB as I have felt it many times sticking my finger across the inner and
outer of the plug...it is not static and doubt if it is the other things you
are discussing...anyway pack it in until I get back down with a new free LNB
....... you all want to show how cleaver you all are except roger and that
is why I keep going on about professionals in ham radio......I think the
voltage is going into the duff side of the LNB ie the dead horizontal and
somehow appearing on the outer of the plugs etc....anyway I will let you all
know and I will tell the truth about my findings......

Sorry to disappoint you, but I find it a little difficult to know how
you get the DC voltage to appear on the cable outer unless that
particular cable is disconnected from the receiver, or one of the
receivers is disconnected from the mains. Unless this is the case I am
going with the majority and guessing you have a faulty LNB *and* a bit
of mains leakage on the receiver chassis. BICBW. See if the tingling
goes when you've replaced the LNB?

--

Roger Hayter

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
Brian Reay wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 08:15, Brian Reay wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being
RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.


It shouldn't be designed like that, it is pointless. It doubles
the Z
between L&N to dump noise via the C's (C's in series rule) and
introducing
the stray 110Vac point. As I posted in another group, this
situation
can
arise due to a fault condition if, for example, the earth at the
plug
(top)
is lost or somewhere else before the filter.

It isn't pointless from an RF POV.





Read what I posted, carefully. The two C's would be in series,
halving
the
overall value (assuming they are the same), that doubles the impedance
Z
to
decouple the noise. One C would between L&N would be more effective
and
avoid the stray 110V AC point.

It would be more effective for possible differential noise, but totally
ineffective for common mode noise, which is more likely. As someone
said it is common to have both, as well as coupled series inductors and
further capacitors if it is a posh mains filter.

don't know what you are all arguing about other than you love it and try
to
belittle people.....it felt like the voltage that goes up the cable to
the
LNB as I have felt it many times sticking my finger across the inner and
outer of the plug...it is not static and doubt if it is the other things
you
are discussing...anyway pack it in until I get back down with a new free
LNB
....... you all want to show how cleaver you all are except roger and
that
is why I keep going on about professionals in ham radio......I think the
voltage is going into the duff side of the LNB ie the dead horizontal and
somehow appearing on the outer of the plugs etc....anyway I will let you
all
know and I will tell the truth about my findings......

Sorry to disappoint you, but I find it a little difficult to know how
you get the DC voltage to appear on the cable outer unless that
particular cable is disconnected from the receiver, or one of the
receivers is disconnected from the mains. Unless this is the case I am
going with the majority and guessing you have a faulty LNB *and* a bit
of mains leakage on the receiver chassis. BICBW. See if the tingling
goes when you've replaced the LNB?

ok fair doos.....

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
Brian Reay wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 08:15, Brian Reay wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being
RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.


It shouldn't be designed like that, it is pointless. It doubles
the Z
between L&N to dump noise via the C's (C's in series rule) and
introducing
the stray 110Vac point. As I posted in another group, this
situation
can
arise due to a fault condition if, for example, the earth at the
plug
(top)
is lost or somewhere else before the filter.

It isn't pointless from an RF POV.





Read what I posted, carefully. The two C's would be in series,
halving
the
overall value (assuming they are the same), that doubles the
impedance Z
to
decouple the noise. One C would between L&N would be more effective
and
avoid the stray 110V AC point.

It would be more effective for possible differential noise, but
totally
ineffective for common mode noise, which is more likely. As someone
said it is common to have both, as well as coupled series inductors
and
further capacitors if it is a posh mains filter.

don't know what you are all arguing about other than you love it and try
to
belittle people.....it felt like the voltage that goes up the cable to
the
LNB as I have felt it many times sticking my finger across the inner and
outer of the plug...it is not static and doubt if it is the other things
you
are discussing...anyway pack it in until I get back down with a new free
LNB
....... you all want to show how cleaver you all are except roger and
that
is why I keep going on about professionals in ham radio......I think the
voltage is going into the duff side of the LNB ie the dead horizontal
and
somehow appearing on the outer of the plugs etc....anyway I will let you
all
know and I will tell the truth about my findings......

Sorry to disappoint you, but I find it a little difficult to know how
you get the DC voltage to appear on the cable outer unless that
particular cable is disconnected from the receiver, or one of the
receivers is disconnected from the mains. Unless this is the case I am
going with the majority and guessing you have a faulty LNB *and* a bit
of mains leakage on the receiver chassis. BICBW. See if the tingling
goes when you've replaced the LNB?

ok fair doos.....

wasn't you it was aimed at....you are a good guy......

On 10/06/2019 15:59, Roger Hayter wrote:
Unless this is the case I am
going with the majority and guessing you have a faulty LNB*and* a bit
of mains leakage on the receiver chassis. BICBW. See if the tingling
goes when you've replaced the LNB?

Nah. that will just blow the lnb

fix the tingle first.

Almost certainly the STB or whatver is not earthed properly


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 07:20:36 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I'd be a little worried at the shock problem before you replace anything
expensive myself. Could be a duff psu something like that.
Brian

Don't tell me you've joined this bunch of pillocks too!

Nothing wrong with the receiver. Every modern receiver has leakage
current. That's the reason that the manuals say connect all signal
cables on every piece of equipment prior to switch on.

Our NG "genius" is getting a tingle because he has never pranced
around damp grass in leather soled or verry soggy rubber soled shoes
before.

Anyone familiar with dish alignment at ground level would be only too
familiar with the effect. On a wooden ladder there would be no
problem.

Most of the LNB is plastic anyway, so what on earth he's doing playing
with the F connector, God knows.

Being a G4 he probably thinks it's a modern day "cats whisker" and is
after the active plane for 2LO or something.

AB

On 10/06/2019 13:27, Roger Hayter wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 08:15, Brian Reay wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.


It shouldn't be designed like that, it is pointless. It doubles the Z
between L&N to dump noise via the C's (C's in series rule) and introducing
the stray 110Vac point. As I posted in another group, this situation can
arise due to a fault condition if, for example, the earth at the plug (top)
is lost or somewhere else before the filter.

It isn't pointless from an RF POV.





Read what I posted, carefully. The two C's would be in series, halving the
overall value (assuming they are the same), that doubles the impedance Z to
decouple the noise. One C would between L&N would be more effective and
avoid the stray 110V AC point.

It would be more effective for possible differential noise, but totally
ineffective for common mode noise, which is more likely. As someone
said it is common to have both, as well as coupled series inductors and
further capacitors if it is a posh mains filter.


The 'mid point' isn't connected to ground. That is the point. Stop
trying to score points and read the thread!



--
Always smile when walking, you never know where there is a camera ;-)

Remarkable Coincidences:
The Stock Market Crashes of 1929 and 2008 happened on the same
date in October. In Oct 1907, a run on the Knickerbocker Trust
Company led to the Great Depression.

On 10/06/2019 19:30, Brian Reay wrote:
On 10/06/2019 13:27, Roger Hayter wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 08:15, Brian Reay wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.


It shouldn't be designed like that, it is pointless.Â* It doubles the Z
between L&N to dump noise via the C's (C's in series rule) and
introducing
the stray 110Vac point.Â* As I posted in another group, this
situation can
arise due to a fault condition if, for example, the earth at the
plug (top)
is lost or somewhere else before the filter.

It isn't pointless from an RF POV.





Read what I posted, carefully.Â* The two C's would be in series,
halving the
overall value (assuming they are the same), that doubles the
impedance Z to
decouple the noise. One C would between L&N would be more effective and
avoid the stray 110V AC point.

It would be more effective for possible differential noise, but totally
ineffective for common mode noise, which is more likely.Â*Â* As someone
said it is common to have both, as well as coupled series inductors and
further capacitors if it is a posh mains filter.


The 'mid point' isn't connected to ground. That is the point. Stop
trying to score points and read the thread!

The mid point IS connected to the case though. That is, RF wise, a local
'ground' , of a sort





--
€œI know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.€�

ۥ Leo Tolstoy

"Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 07:20:36 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

I'd be a little worried at the shock problem before you replace anything
expensive myself. Could be a duff psu something like that.
Brian

Don't tell me you've joined this bunch of pillocks too!

Nothing wrong with the receiver. Every modern receiver has leakage
current. That's the reason that the manuals say connect all signal
cables on every piece of equipment prior to switch on.

Our NG "genius" is getting a tingle because he has never pranced
around damp grass in leather soled or verry soggy rubber soled shoes
before.

Anyone familiar with dish alignment at ground level would be only too
familiar with the effect. On a wooden ladder there would be no
problem.

Most of the LNB is plastic anyway, so what on earth he's doing playing
with the F connector, God knows.

Being a G4 he probably thinks it's a modern day "cats whisker" and is
after the active plane for 2LO or something.

AB

I am so hurted...tee hee

On 10/06/2019 17:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 15:59, Roger Hayter wrote:
Unless this is the case I am
going with the majority and guessing you haveÂ* a faulty LNB*and*Â* a bit
of mains leakage on the receiver chassis.Â* BICBW.Â*Â* See if the tingling
goes when you've replaced the LNB?

Nah. that will just blow the lnb

fix the tingle first.

Almost certainly the STB or whatver is not earthed properly


They are not normally earthed.

Bill

On 11/06/2019 02:00, Bill Wright wrote:
On 10/06/2019 17:24, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 15:59, Roger Hayter wrote:
Unless this is the case I am
going with the majority and guessing you haveÂ* a faulty LNB*and*Â* a bit
of mains leakage on the receiver chassis.Â* BICBW.Â*Â* See if the tingling
goes when you've replaced the LNB?

Nah. that will just blow the lnb

fix the tingle first.

Almost certainly the STB or whatver is not earthed properly


They are not normally earthed.

Bill
Why not?


I find that worrisome

Then you might accidentally earth a bit of LNB and short that 110v AC
bvia the LNB to earth. And end up exactly where the OP is now


Not a great idea.


--
Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 19:30, Brian Reay wrote:
On 10/06/2019 13:27, Roger Hayter wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 08:15, Brian Reay wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.


It shouldn't be designed like that, it is pointless.Â* It doubles the Z
between L&N to dump noise via the C's (C's in series rule) and
introducing
the stray 110Vac point.Â* As I posted in another group, this
situation can
arise due to a fault condition if, for example, the earth at the
plug (top)
is lost or somewhere else before the filter.

It isn't pointless from an RF POV.





Read what I posted, carefully.Â* The two C's would be in series,
halving the
overall value (assuming they are the same), that doubles the
impedance Z to
decouple the noise. One C would between L&N would be more effective and
avoid the stray 110V AC point.

It would be more effective for possible differential noise, but totally
ineffective for common mode noise, which is more likely.Â*Â* As someone
said it is common to have both, as well as coupled series inductors and
further capacitors if it is a posh mains filter.


The 'mid point' isn't connected to ground. That is the point. Stop
trying to score points and read the thread!

The mid point IS connected to the case though. That is, RF wise, a local
'ground' , of a sort

So you €˜pump any noise onto your local (and signal) ground rather than to
earth where good design dictates you should send it.

Novel approach.







--
Corbyn & the EU, the Nazis next step: "Our aim was Europe a nation. Our
faith European Socialism" Mosley "My Life" autobiography 1957.

On 11/06/2019 09:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

They are not normally earthed.

Bill
Why not?

It has been deemed unnecessary. Same with most appliances of that type.


I find that worrisome

Then you might accidentally earth a bit of LNB and short that 110v AC
bvia the LNB to earth. And end up exactly where the OP is now

Don't forget that the voltage on the case and the LNB feeders is
extremely current limited.

The situation you postulate isn't likely. And nothing would happen
anyway. I've been installing satellite gear since God were a lad and
I've never seen or heard of such an occurrence.

Bill

On 11/06/2019 09:26, Brian Reay wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 19:30, Brian Reay wrote:
On 10/06/2019 13:27, Roger Hayter wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/06/2019 08:15, Brian Reay wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

A lot of unearathed metalwork floats at 110vAC due to there being RF
filter caps to live and neutral from the metal case.


It shouldn't be designed like that, it is pointless.Â* It doubles the Z
between L&N to dump noise via the C's (C's in series rule) and
introducing
the stray 110Vac point.Â* As I posted in another group, this
situation can
arise due to a fault condition if, for example, the earth at the
plug (top)
is lost or somewhere else before the filter.

It isn't pointless from an RF POV.





Read what I posted, carefully.Â* The two C's would be in series,
halving the
overall value (assuming they are the same), that doubles the
impedance Z to
decouple the noise. One C would between L&N would be more effective and
avoid the stray 110V AC point.

It would be more effective for possible differential noise, but totally
ineffective for common mode noise, which is more likely.Â*Â* As someone
said it is common to have both, as well as coupled series inductors and
further capacitors if it is a posh mains filter.


The 'mid point' isn't connected to ground. That is the point. Stop
trying to score points and read the thread!

The mid point IS connected to the case though. That is, RF wise, a local
'ground' , of a sort

So you €˜pump any noise onto your local (and signal) ground rather than to
earth where good design dictates you should send it.

Novel approach.







Wel te planet itself is only a 'local (and signal) ground'

--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

OK took the cables out of both satellite receivers and checked for a short
in all four cables....none was found ....took off the old LNB and noticed
the radome had a crack in it and pushed my finder through it and found it to
be full of water.......fitted an identical new LNB and wired up one receiver
and switched on...no shocks....wired up the other receiver and switched
on...no shocks...... ....checked both receivers all channels now working
vertical and horizontal......so much for all your theories.......ha ha

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...
OK took the cables out of both satellite receivers and checked for a short
in all four cables....none was found ....took off the old LNB and noticed
the radome had a crack in it and pushed my finder through it and found it
to be full of water.......fitted an identical new LNB and wired up one
receiver and switched on...no shocks....wired up the other receiver and
switched on...no shocks...... ....checked both receivers all channels now
working vertical and horizontal......so much for all your
theories.......ha ha

so the moral of this story is never listen to what a professional tells
you...tee hee ....or at least take it with a pinch of salt ........

Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

so the moral of this story is never listen to what a professional tells
you...

What? It was suggested you need to replace the LNB, you did so, and now
it's working again ... what was wrong with the advice?

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

so the moral of this story is never listen to what a professional tells
you...

What? It was suggested you need to replace the LNB, you did so, and now
it's working again ... what was wrong with the advice?


nothing wrong with that advice that is what I was going to do anyway it was
all the other theories and insults that were the problem...was just asking
if anybody else had had this problem .....

Andy Burns wrote:
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

so the moral of this story is never listen to what a professional tells
you...

What? It was suggested you need to replace the LNB, you did so, and now
it's working again ... what was wrong with the advice?


It didnt satisfy his need for attention...

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Andy Burns wrote:
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

so the moral of this story is never listen to what a professional tells
you...

What? It was suggested you need to replace the LNB, you did so, and now
it's working again ... what was wrong with the advice?


It didn't satisfy his need for attention...

Tim

**** me what is this news group for if not to ask questions ? ......

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Andy Burns wrote:
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

so the moral of this story is never listen to what a professional tells
you...

What? It was suggested you need to replace the LNB, you did so, and now
it's working again ... what was wrong with the advice?


It didn't satisfy his need for attention...

Tim

**** me what is this news group for if not to ask questions ? ......

....and all you get for your trouble are put downs and insults.......

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 17:44:57 +0100, "Jim GM4DHJ ..."
wrote:


"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Andy Burns wrote:
Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

so the moral of this story is never listen to what a professional tells
you...

What? It was suggested you need to replace the LNB, you did so, and now
it's working again ... what was wrong with the advice?


It didn't satisfy his need for attention...

Tim

**** me what is this news group for if not to ask questions ? ......

Indeed, but you may not like some of the answers, even the ones
without insults.
--
Dave W