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Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
As per title, the latest in an alarmingly and depressingly long list of
household item that have died or malfunctionned recently is a Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer which was last used about a week and a half ago and worked fine. Turned it on this morning to wash some sheets, and it's not spinning, further during normal agitation the drum only turns anti-clockwise, whereas it should alternate directions, and AFAICR spinning is clockwise. Fortunately, unlike the late fridge/freezer, whose saga has already been told, it's still comfortably within its 2 year warranty, but until I have time to read the instructions, etc - just now I have to go out unexpectedly to buy a new clothes line to hang my dripping sheets on - and/or can arrange for it to be repaired, has anybody who has experienced similar have any suggestions? |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 20/05/2019 13:22, Java Jive wrote:
As per title, the latest in an alarmingly and depressingly long list of household item that have died or malfunctionned recently is a Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer which was last used about a week and a half ago and worked fine.* Turned it on this morning to wash some sheets, and it's not spinning, further during normal agitation the drum only turns anti-clockwise, whereas it should alternate directions, and AFAICR spinning is clockwise. Fortunately, unlike the late fridge/freezer, whose saga has already been told, it's still comfortably within its 2 year warranty, but until I have time to read the instructions, etc* -* just now I have to go out unexpectedly to buy a new clothes line to hang my dripping sheets on* - and/or can arrange for it to be repaired, has anybody who has experienced similar have any suggestions? My first thought is that there's probably some sort of triac or thyristor drive circuit. One blown power semiconductor out of four would allow power to the motor in one direction, but not in the other. It could also be the circuit driving the power devices instead. If a power semiconductor has blown, you'd usually be able to see the physical damage to it. SteveW |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 20/05/2019 13:36, Steve Walker wrote:
On 20/05/2019 13:22, Java Jive wrote: As per title, the latest in an alarmingly and depressingly long list of household item that have died or malfunctionned recently is a Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer which was last used about a week and a half ago and worked fine.* Turned it on this morning to wash some sheets, and it's not spinning, further during normal agitation the drum only turns anti-clockwise, whereas it should alternate directions, and AFAICR spinning is clockwise. Fortunately, unlike the late fridge/freezer, whose saga has already been told, it's still comfortably within its 2 year warranty, but until I have time to read the instructions, etc* -* just now I have to go out unexpectedly to buy a new clothes line to hang my dripping sheets on* - and/or can arrange for it to be repaired, has anybody who has experienced similar have any suggestions? My first thought is that there's probably some sort of triac or thyristor drive circuit. One blown power semiconductor out of four would allow power to the motor in one direction, but not in the other. It could also be the circuit driving the power devices instead. If a power semiconductor has blown, you'd usually be able to see the physical damage to it. I'd read the OP as wanting suggestions on what to check before making a warranty claim. If so, I wonder if opening it up to look at such things might be said to have invalidated the warranty. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 20/05/2019 13:22, Java Jive wrote:
has anybody who has experienced similar have any suggestions? I haven't got a Siemens machine (mine is a Bosch washer) but I have noticed on rare occasions that whatever is in the machine is still sopping wet at the end of the programme. If that happens I select "Rinse and Spin" and it does another rinse then a spin and everything comes out spun dry. The Bosch machine has a Rinse Hold capability and I have a suspicion that perhaps this can be accidentally set by someone brushing past the programme modification buttons during the wash cycle, though I have never investigated this. I did do a quick look at the Siemens write-up for the model you quote and I found "If (Rinse stop = without final drain/spin cycle) was selected, press Start/Reload button to start the final drain/spin cycle". So it is vaguely possible that your wash may have accidentally been started with Rinse stop, in which case the above advice might fix it. Alternatively, you may genuinely have a fault. I leave you to decide whether to experiment a bit first or whether to get it looked at under guarantee straight away. Jim |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On Monday, May 20, 2019 at 2:22:45 PM UTC+2, Java Jive wrote:
As per title, the latest in an alarmingly and depressingly long list of household item that have died or malfunctionned recently is a Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer which was last used about a week and a half ago and worked fine. Turned it on this morning to wash some sheets, and it's not spinning, further during normal agitation the drum only turns anti-clockwise, whereas it should alternate directions, and AFAICR spinning is clockwise. Fortunately, unlike the late fridge/freezer, whose saga has already been told, it's still comfortably within its 2 year warranty, but until I have time to read the instructions, etc - just now I have to go out unexpectedly to buy a new clothes line to hang my dripping sheets on - and/or can arrange for it to be repaired, has anybody who has experienced similar have any suggestions? Have you tried turning it off (at the socket) and on again? With many appliances these days it's always worth a short. Tim |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 20/05/2019 13:22, Java Jive wrote:
As per title, the latest in an alarmingly and depressingly long list of household item that have died or malfunctionned recently is a Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer which was last used about a week and a half ago and worked fine.* Turned it on this morning to wash some sheets, and it's not spinning, further during normal agitation the drum only turns anti-clockwise, whereas it should alternate directions, and AFAICR spinning is clockwise. Try running it empty in case it detected 'out of balance' and therefore inhibited spin. Bill |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 20/05/2019 14:26, Indy Jess John wrote:
On 20/05/2019 13:22, Java Jive wrote: has anybody who has experienced similar have any suggestions? I haven't got a Siemens machine (mine is a Bosch washer) but I have noticed on rare occasions that whatever is in the machine is still sopping wet at the end of the programme.* If that happens I select "Rinse and Spin" and it does another rinse then a spin and everything comes out spun dry. The Bosch machine has a Rinse Hold capability and I have a suspicion that perhaps this can be accidentally set by someone brushing past the programme modification buttons during the wash cycle, though I have never investigated this. I did do a quick look at the Siemens write-up for the model you quote and I found "If (Rinse stop = without final drain/spin cycle) was selected, press Start/Reload button to start the final drain/spin cycle". So it is vaguely possible that your wash may have accidentally been started with Rinse stop, in which case the above advice might fix it. Alternatively, you may genuinely have a fault.* I leave you to decide whether to experiment a bit first or whether to get it looked at under guarantee straight away. Jim The other (fixable) thing which leaves you with wet sheets is a pound coin in the impeller of the drain pump. Sensors tell it that draining has failed and that locks out the spin cycle. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 20/05/2019 15:10, newshound wrote:
The other (fixable) thing which leaves you with wet sheets is a pound coin in the impeller of the drain pump. Sensors tell it that draining has failed and that locks out the spin cycle. Sometimes the coin gets stuck in the outlet pipe. Bill |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
Well don't about that but if all his appliances that have failed in a
relatively short space of time are connected I'd suggest that some weird event on the mains may be to blame. I normally find these triacs go short and then things do go very peculiar indeed even emitting smoke. I'd just try to prove its not finger trouble of confused software and then shove it back to the suppliers. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Steve Walker" wrote in message ... On 20/05/2019 13:22, Java Jive wrote: As per title, the latest in an alarmingly and depressingly long list of household item that have died or malfunctionned recently is a Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer which was last used about a week and a half ago and worked fine. Turned it on this morning to wash some sheets, and it's not spinning, further during normal agitation the drum only turns anti-clockwise, whereas it should alternate directions, and AFAICR spinning is clockwise. Fortunately, unlike the late fridge/freezer, whose saga has already been told, it's still comfortably within its 2 year warranty, but until I have time to read the instructions, etc - just now I have to go out unexpectedly to buy a new clothes line to hang my dripping sheets on - and/or can arrange for it to be repaired, has anybody who has experienced similar have any suggestions? My first thought is that there's probably some sort of triac or thyristor drive circuit. One blown power semiconductor out of four would allow power to the motor in one direction, but not in the other. It could also be the circuit driving the power devices instead. If a power semiconductor has blown, you'd usually be able to see the physical damage to it. SteveW |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 20/05/2019 15:10, newshound wrote:
On 20/05/2019 14:26, Indy Jess John wrote: On 20/05/2019 13:22, Java Jive wrote: has anybody who has experienced similar have any suggestions? I haven't got a Siemens machine (mine is a Bosch washer) but I have noticed on rare occasions that whatever is in the machine is still sopping wet at the end of the programme.* If that happens I select "Rinse and Spin" and it does another rinse then a spin and everything comes out spun dry. The Bosch machine has a Rinse Hold capability and I have a suspicion that perhaps this can be accidentally set by someone brushing past the programme modification buttons during the wash cycle, though I have never investigated this. I did do a quick look at the Siemens write-up for the model you quote and I found "If (Rinse stop = without final drain/spin cycle) was selected, press Start/Reload button to start the final drain/spin cycle". So it is vaguely possible that your wash may have accidentally been started with Rinse stop, in which case the above advice might fix it. Alternatively, you may genuinely have a fault.* I leave you to decide whether to experiment a bit first or whether to get it looked at under guarantee straight away. Jim The other (fixable) thing which leaves you with wet sheets is a pound coin in the impeller of the drain pump. Sensors tell it that draining has failed and that locks out the spin cycle. Machines usually raise an alarm and indicate a fault for something like that though. SteveW |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
Yes I'd not want to do that, but some very odd things can be made to occur
with dodgy software. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Robin" wrote in message ... On 20/05/2019 13:36, Steve Walker wrote: On 20/05/2019 13:22, Java Jive wrote: As per title, the latest in an alarmingly and depressingly long list of household item that have died or malfunctionned recently is a Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer which was last used about a week and a half ago and worked fine. Turned it on this morning to wash some sheets, and it's not spinning, further during normal agitation the drum only turns anti-clockwise, whereas it should alternate directions, and AFAICR spinning is clockwise. Fortunately, unlike the late fridge/freezer, whose saga has already been told, it's still comfortably within its 2 year warranty, but until I have time to read the instructions, etc - just now I have to go out unexpectedly to buy a new clothes line to hang my dripping sheets on - and/or can arrange for it to be repaired, has anybody who has experienced similar have any suggestions? My first thought is that there's probably some sort of triac or thyristor drive circuit. One blown power semiconductor out of four would allow power to the motor in one direction, but not in the other. It could also be the circuit driving the power devices instead. If a power semiconductor has blown, you'd usually be able to see the physical damage to it. I'd read the OP as wanting suggestions on what to check before making a warranty claim. If so, I wonder if opening it up to look at such things might be said to have invalidated the warranty. -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 20/05/2019 14:21, Robin wrote:
On 20/05/2019 13:36, Steve Walker wrote: If a power semiconductor has blown, you'd usually be able to see the physical damage to it. I'd read the OP as wanting suggestions on what to check before making a warranty claim. If so, I wonder if opening it up to look at such things might be said to have invalidated the warranty. Yes. I suspect that Steve's suggestion is either correct or very close, because it explains both the symptoms, the one-way agitation and the failure to spin, but you are correct in that I was looking for things to check before chasing the warranty. As suggested by others, I checked the filter, which, perhaps surprisingly, was very clean, not quite pristine, but not far off. However I didn't expect that to be the problem, because it didn't explain the one-way agitation. The suggestion of an unbalanced load also doesn't explain the one-way agitation. I've rung John Lewis, who passed me on to Siemens, and I await their maintenance partners to call to arrange a visit. Thanks all. |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
You are not one of these people like Kate Bush who prefers to watch the
clothes going around in the machine than what is on the telly are you? Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Java Jive" wrote in message ... As per title, the latest in an alarmingly and depressingly long list of household item that have died or malfunctionned recently is a Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer which was last used about a week and a half ago and worked fine. Turned it on this morning to wash some sheets, and it's not spinning, further during normal agitation the drum only turns anti-clockwise, whereas it should alternate directions, and AFAICR spinning is clockwise. Fortunately, unlike the late fridge/freezer, whose saga has already been told, it's still comfortably within its 2 year warranty, but until I have time to read the instructions, etc - just now I have to go out unexpectedly to buy a new clothes line to hang my dripping sheets on - and/or can arrange for it to be repaired, has anybody who has experienced similar have any suggestions? |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
Actually on the other group this was posted to my real first thought was to
knock on the neighbours door smile like a useless bloke and ask her to put them in the spinner for you. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Steve Walker" wrote in message ... On 20/05/2019 13:22, Java Jive wrote: As per title, the latest in an alarmingly and depressingly long list of household item that have died or malfunctionned recently is a Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer which was last used about a week and a half ago and worked fine. Turned it on this morning to wash some sheets, and it's not spinning, further during normal agitation the drum only turns anti-clockwise, whereas it should alternate directions, and AFAICR spinning is clockwise. Fortunately, unlike the late fridge/freezer, whose saga has already been told, it's still comfortably within its 2 year warranty, but until I have time to read the instructions, etc - just now I have to go out unexpectedly to buy a new clothes line to hang my dripping sheets on - and/or can arrange for it to be repaired, has anybody who has experienced similar have any suggestions? My first thought is that there's probably some sort of triac or thyristor drive circuit. One blown power semiconductor out of four would allow power to the motor in one direction, but not in the other. It could also be the circuit driving the power devices instead. If a power semiconductor has blown, you'd usually be able to see the physical damage to it. SteveW |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
Java Jive wrote:
the latest in an alarmingly and depressingly long list of household item that have died or malfunctionned recently is a Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer which was last used about a week and a half ago and worked fine.* Turned it on this morning to wash some sheets, and it's not spinning Have you tried a factory reset, unplug the aerial and do a full retune? |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 20/05/2019 16:38, Steve Walker wrote:
On 20/05/2019 15:10, newshound wrote: On 20/05/2019 14:26, Indy Jess John wrote: On 20/05/2019 13:22, Java Jive wrote: has anybody who has experienced similar have any suggestions? I haven't got a Siemens machine (mine is a Bosch washer) but I have noticed on rare occasions that whatever is in the machine is still sopping wet at the end of the programme.* If that happens I select "Rinse and Spin" and it does another rinse then a spin and everything comes out spun dry. The Bosch machine has a Rinse Hold capability and I have a suspicion that perhaps this can be accidentally set by someone brushing past the programme modification buttons during the wash cycle, though I have never investigated this. I did do a quick look at the Siemens write-up for the model you quote and I found "If (Rinse stop = without final drain/spin cycle) was selected, press Start/Reload button to start the final drain/spin cycle". So it is vaguely possible that your wash may have accidentally been started with Rinse stop, in which case the above advice might fix it. Alternatively, you may genuinely have a fault.* I leave you to decide whether to experiment a bit first or whether to get it looked at under guarantee straight away. Jim The other (fixable) thing which leaves you with wet sheets is a pound coin in the impeller of the drain pump. Sensors tell it that draining has failed and that locks out the spin cycle. Machines usually raise an alarm and indicate a fault for something like that though. SteveW Some do, some don't. Mine just stops. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
Andy Burns a formul ce lundi :
Java Jive wrote: the latest in an alarmingly and depressingly long list of household item that have died or malfunctionned recently is a Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer which was last used about a week and a half ago and worked fine.* Turned it on this morning to wash some sheets, and it's not spinning Have you tried a factory reset, unplug the aerial and do a full retune? +1 If you can grasp what you see it is not a digital-tv . Probably a washing machine or a microwave oven. HTH lol |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
For the record most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it
much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. However because it is doing part of the wash it is unlikely to be that at fault. In practice the commonest fault is that the machine has failed to drain as it will not continue if it thinks there is still water in the tub. As has been suggested it could be a coin in the pump or a sock stuck in the outer drum that is blocking the pump inlet - fingers will usually find if it is. The other question, is the OP using liquid wash at lower temps rather than powder? Liquid can cause horrendous gunging up of the pump, the outlet pipe of the machine, and especially the fixed pipe into the drainage system. We have a Miele and they recommend that if you use liquid you should do a long high temp powder wash with the machine empty about once a month or so to remove the gunge. We find it is very effective. Generally if there is gunge it will stink. -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 22/05/2019 15:53, Woody wrote:
For the record most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. However because it is doing part of the wash it is unlikely to be that at fault. In practice the commonest fault is that the machine has failed to drain as it will not continue if it thinks there is still water in the tub. As has been suggested it could be a coin in the pump or a sock stuck in the outer drum that is blocking the pump inlet - fingers will usually find if it is. The other question, is the OP using liquid wash at lower temps rather than powder? Liquid can cause horrendous gunging up of the pump, the outlet pipe of the machine, and especially the fixed pipe into the drainage system. We have a Miele and they recommend that if you use liquid you should do a long high temp powder wash with the machine empty about once a month or so to remove the gunge. We find it is very effective. Generally if there is gunge it will stink. Interesting. Bill |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
Woody wrote:
most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. The engineer said my hotpoint washer/dryer (post indesit/ariston takeover) uses a 3-ph motor driven by a VFD. |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 23/05/2019 08:01, Andy Burns wrote:
Woody wrote: most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. The engineer said my hotpoint washer/dryer (post indesit/ariston takeover) uses a 3-ph motor driven by a VFD. almost the same. Its a very moot point as to when a multipole 3 phase motors ceases to be a 3 phase motor and becomes a stepper motor. -- Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns. |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
Bill Wright wrote:
On 22/05/2019 15:53, Woody wrote: For the record most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. However because it is doing part of the wash it is unlikely to be that at fault. In practice the commonest fault is that the machine has failed to drain as it will not continue if it thinks there is still water in the tub. As has been suggested it could be a coin in the pump or a sock stuck in the outer drum that is blocking the pump inlet - fingers will usually find if it is. The other question, is the OP using liquid wash at lower temps rather than powder? Liquid can cause horrendous gunging up of the pump, the outlet pipe of the machine, and especially the fixed pipe into the drainage system. We have a Miele and they recommend that if you use liquid you should do a long high temp powder wash with the machine empty about once a month or so to remove the gunge. We find it is very effective. Generally if there is gunge it will stink. Interesting. Bill My Miele washing machine, being Germanic, lights a hygiene indicator if it has done too many low temperature washes without a hot wash. My old Bosch washer ended up getting black mould being imbedded in the door seal which would never shift. So with my Miele I now run it occasionally at 90 degrees C with a bottle of Aldi washing machine cleaner. The machine is as shiny and clean as the day it was purchased. |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On Thu, 23 May 2019 17:55:51 +0000 (UTC) Tweed
posted: Bill Wright wrote: On 22/05/2019 15:53, Woody wrote: For the record most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. However because it is doing part of the wash it is unlikely to be that at fault. In practice the commonest fault is that the machine has failed to drain as it will not continue if it thinks there is still water in the tub. As has been suggested it could be a coin in the pump or a sock stuck in the outer drum that is blocking the pump inlet - fingers will usually find if it is. The other question, is the OP using liquid wash at lower temps rather than powder? Liquid can cause horrendous gunging up of the pump, the outlet pipe of the machine, and especially the fixed pipe into the drainage system. We have a Miele and they recommend that if you use liquid you should do a long high temp powder wash with the machine empty about once a month or so to remove the gunge. We find it is very effective. Generally if there is gunge it will stink. Interesting. Bill My Miele washing machine, being Germanic, lights a ?hygiene? indicator if it has done too many low temperature washes without a hot wash. My old Bosch washer ended up getting black mould being imbedded in the door seal which would never shift. So with my Miele I now run it occasionally at 90 degrees C with a bottle of Aldi washing machine cleaner. The machine is as shiny and clean as the day it was purchased. Wiping the seal and rinsing the soap drawer, especially of fabric conditional, after every day's use pays dividends too. My Bosch is 4 years old and sparkles for that 2 minutes of attention. |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On Thu 23/05/2019 18:55, Tweed wrote:
Bill Wright wrote: On 22/05/2019 15:53, Woody wrote: For the record most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. However because it is doing part of the wash it is unlikely to be that at fault. In practice the commonest fault is that the machine has failed to drain as it will not continue if it thinks there is still water in the tub. As has been suggested it could be a coin in the pump or a sock stuck in the outer drum that is blocking the pump inlet - fingers will usually find if it is. The other question, is the OP using liquid wash at lower temps rather than powder? Liquid can cause horrendous gunging up of the pump, the outlet pipe of the machine, and especially the fixed pipe into the drainage system. We have a Miele and they recommend that if you use liquid you should do a long high temp powder wash with the machine empty about once a month or so to remove the gunge. We find it is very effective. Generally if there is gunge it will stink. Interesting. Bill My Miele washing machine, being Germanic, lights a hygiene indicator if it has done too many low temperature washes without a hot wash. My old Bosch washer ended up getting black mould being imbedded in the door seal which would never shift. So with my Miele I now run it occasionally at 90 degrees C with a bottle of Aldi washing machine cleaner. The machine is as shiny and clean as the day it was purchased. The hot wash does, to some extent at least, alleviate the 'black-spots-on-the-door-seal' problem, but not completely. HG do a mould remover which is very effective. There is also a powder product that you use to do an empty hot wash and it not only removes the black spots, it also shifts all that gunge that liquid washes at low temps produce (see my earlier.) Magic stuff but I can't remember the name of the **** stuff! -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 23/05/2019 05:10, Bill Wright wrote:
On 22/05/2019 15:53, Woody wrote: For the record most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. However because it is doing part of the wash it is unlikely to be that at fault. In practice the commonest fault is that the machine has failed to drain as it will not continue if it thinks there is still water in the tub. As has been suggested it could be a coin in the pump or a sock stuck in the outer drum that is blocking the pump inlet - fingers will usually find if it is. The other question, is the OP using liquid wash at lower temps rather than powder? Liquid can cause horrendous gunging up of the pump, the outlet pipe of the machine, and especially the fixed pipe into the drainage system. We have a Miele and they recommend that if you use liquid you should do a long high temp powder wash with the machine empty about once a month or so to remove the gunge. We find it is very effective. Generally if there is gunge it will stink. Interesting. Bill So, a bit like rural broadband delivered by overhead lines, where the phone is never actually used. Ringing the landline number every so often, sends the ?60 volt ringing pulse down the line and helps to prevent cable joints going high-resistance. |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On Fri 24/05/2019 15:06, Andrew wrote:
On 23/05/2019 05:10, Bill Wright wrote: On 22/05/2019 15:53, Woody wrote: For the record most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. However because it is doing part of the wash it is unlikely to be that at fault. In practice the commonest fault is that the machine has failed to drain as it will not continue if it thinks there is still water in the tub. As has been suggested it could be a coin in the pump or a sock stuck in the outer drum that is blocking the pump inlet - fingers will usually find if it is. The other question, is the OP using liquid wash at lower temps rather than powder? Liquid can cause horrendous gunging up of the pump, the outlet pipe of the machine, and especially the fixed pipe into the drainage system. We have a Miele and they recommend that if you use liquid you should do a long high temp powder wash with the machine empty about once a month or so to remove the gunge. We find it is very effective. Generally if there is gunge it will stink. Interesting. Bill So, a bit like rural broadband delivered by overhead lines, where the phone is never actually used. Ringing the landline number every so often, sends the ?60 volt ringing pulse down the line and helps to prevent cable joints going high-resistance. Usually 50V 25Hz a.c. -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
In article ,
Woody wrote: On Fri 24/05/2019 15:06, Andrew wrote: On 23/05/2019 05:10, Bill Wright wrote: On 22/05/2019 15:53, Woody wrote: For the record most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. However because it is doing part of the wash it is unlikely to be that at fault. In practice the commonest fault is that the machine has failed to drain as it will not continue if it thinks there is still water in the tub. As has been suggested it could be a coin in the pump or a sock stuck in the outer drum that is blocking the pump inlet - fingers will usually find if it is. The other question, is the OP using liquid wash at lower temps rather than powder? Liquid can cause horrendous gunging up of the pump, the outlet pipe of the machine, and especially the fixed pipe into the drainage system. We have a Miele and they recommend that if you use liquid you should do a long high temp powder wash with the machine empty about once a month or so to remove the gunge. We find it is very effective. Generally if there is gunge it will stink. Interesting. Bill So, a bit like rural broadband delivered by overhead lines, where the phone is never actually used. Ringing the landline number every so often, sends the ?60 volt ringing pulse down the line and helps to prevent cable joints going high-resistance. Usually 50V 25Hz a.c. no. usually 33Hz and less that 100v. The safety elf doesn't like 240v,, -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On Thu, 23 May 2019 08:52:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/05/2019 08:01, Andy Burns wrote: Woody wrote: most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. The engineer said my hotpoint washer/dryer (post indesit/ariston takeover) uses a 3-ph motor driven by a VFD. almost the same. Its a very moot point as to when a multipole 3 phase motors ceases to be a 3 phase motor and becomes a stepper motor. There's a very strong distinction between those two motor types. I believe what you may have had in mind was the very fine distinction between permanent magnet BLDC and three phase synchronous motors where the distinction *is* very much finer. A three phase synchronous motor (regardless of pole pair number) when carefully designed, should ideally exhibit no 'cogging effect' as it is manually rotated. Perfection in this regard is hard to achieve so some cogging effect is still likely to be observed with such a test. The endearing characteristic of a true three (or poly-phase) motor (whether of induction or synchronous type) is the constant torque output throughout each revolution once up to speed (no torque ripple). Three phase motors designed to be driven directly from a 50 or 60 Hz supply run at just the one fixed speed which is fine for most industrial processes and those domestic applications where variable speed is not required (fan motors or pumps). Of course, this leaves the issue of getting them up to speed on application of mains power which is solved by star to delta switching of the windings in large industrial machines along with current limiting resistors (smaller domestic sized machines forego the complexity of star to delta switching, relying on current limiting resistors alone). Such starter gear complexity only has to deal with the relatively infrequent nought to 3000rpm speed changes, allowing the current limiting resistors used to be rated for a short term, non repetitive duty cycle. Until semiconductors became available that could cost effectively use high frequency switching of the voltages and currents required to drive a high voltage DC to three phase variable voltage and frequency inverter, it hadn't been practical to use three phase motors for variable speed applications such as domestic washing machine drum drives. Today, such VFD control modules and associated sub HP rated three phase multi-pole pair drum motors are becoming an ever more common feature of the modern domestic washing machine. Whilst even today, after a decade or more since they first started to appear in high end white goods, they are still an expensive option. However, they're beginning to become more commonly featured in high end fridge freezers as ultra quiet, high efficiency surge free starting compressor motors (which is useful for anyone looking to provide power from a small emergency genset during a power blackout - what's not to like about a VFD motor, other than their rather high price premium?). Getting back to the VFD three phase motor's close cousin, the permanent magnet (is there any other type?) BLDC motor driven by an ESC (electronic speed controller) from a DC supply, torque delivery in this class lacks the smoothness of a true three phase motor since only two of the three phase windings are actually being driven at any one time by the controller. Obviously, this is no great detriment in their typical usage or else they wouldn't be so widely deployed as high efficiency alternatives to the classic DC brushed motor used in battery powered cordless drills, screwdrivers, chainsaws and drone prop motors. In the latter case, this allows each of the three windings to provide a back emf zero crossing signal in turn to drive the commutation switching circuit in the 'sensorless' ESCs used with drone propeller motors. This 'sensorless' technique whilst fine with propeller or fan loads, isn't suited to BLDC motors driving gross mechanical loads such as drills and starter motors since it relies on the motor to actually be spinning to generate the commutation sensing signal, the timing of which is critical to the smooth and efficient operation of such motors. To achieve the starting reliability and smooth running of a traditional DC brushed motor, a BLDC motor's controller requires an accurate mechanically synchronised signal independent of speed which works even when at a standstill (startup or stalled by the load). With the more traditional design of BLDC motor, this is achieved by the extra complication of a trio of Hall Effect sensors, precisely aligned for maximum efficiency during their manufacture, making them more expensive. However of late, AMS have produced a neat alternative solution[1] which can trivially be retrofitted to any three phase alternator whether permanent magnet type such as used by emergency inverter gensets or separately excited as in an IC powered vehicle's alternator, neatly converting them into a BLDC motor (a lightweight solution to upgrading a pull cord only start emergency inverter genset to electric start for one instance). Although the BLDC motor has a 'cogging' characteristic more akin to that of a stepper motor, the difference in this case is that it's an undesirable side effect best minimised by design whilst in the stepper motor case it's a desirable effect best maximised by design. Also, the major difference between the two motor types is that stepper motors are normally a two phase design and the BLDC motor is always a three phase one, more akin to that of a traditional three phase AC motor. [1] For the more curious amongst you, there's an in depth article covering the subject of BLDC control at this web address:- https://www.electronicproducts.com/A...l_ICs/Sensors/ Absolute_position_sensing_the_key_to_better_brushl ess_DC_motor_control.aspx https://tinyurl.com/y2u5n9r9 HTH & HAND! :-) -- Johnny B Good |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On Fri 24/05/2019 17:43, charles wrote:
In article , Woody wrote: On Fri 24/05/2019 15:06, Andrew wrote: On 23/05/2019 05:10, Bill Wright wrote: On 22/05/2019 15:53, Woody wrote: For the record most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. However because it is doing part of the wash it is unlikely to be that at fault. In practice the commonest fault is that the machine has failed to drain as it will not continue if it thinks there is still water in the tub. As has been suggested it could be a coin in the pump or a sock stuck in the outer drum that is blocking the pump inlet - fingers will usually find if it is. The other question, is the OP using liquid wash at lower temps rather than powder? Liquid can cause horrendous gunging up of the pump, the outlet pipe of the machine, and especially the fixed pipe into the drainage system. We have a Miele and they recommend that if you use liquid you should do a long high temp powder wash with the machine empty about once a month or so to remove the gunge. We find it is very effective. Generally if there is gunge it will stink. Interesting. Bill So, a bit like rural broadband delivered by overhead lines, where the phone is never actually used. Ringing the landline number every so often, sends the ?60 volt ringing pulse down the line and helps to prevent cable joints going high-resistance. Usually 50V 25Hz a.c. no. usually 33Hz and less that 100v. The safety elf doesn't like 240v,, Sorry Charles, wrong. In the UK in the days of Strowger the ringing frequency was 17Hz but when Crossbar and electronics came into the arena it went to 25Hz where it stays to this day. Voltage is nominally 50Vac but it is quite normal for this to be as high as 70V - indeed that is the voltage offered by most VoIP ATA units. -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On Fri 24/05/2019 18:06, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Thu, 23 May 2019 08:52:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 23/05/2019 08:01, Andy Burns wrote: Woody wrote: most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. The engineer said my hotpoint washer/dryer (post indesit/ariston takeover) uses a 3-ph motor driven by a VFD. almost the same. Its a very moot point as to when a multipole 3 phase motors ceases to be a 3 phase motor and becomes a stepper motor. There's a very strong distinction between those two motor types. I believe what you may have had in mind was the very fine distinction between permanent magnet BLDC and three phase synchronous motors where the distinction *is* very much finer. A three phase synchronous motor (regardless of pole pair number) when carefully designed, should ideally exhibit no 'cogging effect' as it is manually rotated. Perfection in this regard is hard to achieve so some cogging effect is still likely to be observed with such a test. The endearing characteristic of a true three (or poly-phase) motor (whether of induction or synchronous type) is the constant torque output throughout each revolution once up to speed (no torque ripple). Three phase motors designed to be driven directly from a 50 or 60 Hz supply run at just the one fixed speed which is fine for most industrial processes and those domestic applications where variable speed is not required (fan motors or pumps). Of course, this leaves the issue of getting them up to speed on application of mains power which is solved by star to delta switching of the windings in large industrial machines along with current limiting resistors (smaller domestic sized machines forego the complexity of star to delta switching, relying on current limiting resistors alone). Such starter gear complexity only has to deal with the relatively infrequent nought to 3000rpm speed changes, allowing the current limiting resistors used to be rated for a short term, non repetitive duty cycle. Until semiconductors became available that could cost effectively use high frequency switching of the voltages and currents required to drive a high voltage DC to three phase variable voltage and frequency inverter, it hadn't been practical to use three phase motors for variable speed applications such as domestic washing machine drum drives. Today, such VFD control modules and associated sub HP rated three phase multi-pole pair drum motors are becoming an ever more common feature of the modern domestic washing machine. Whilst even today, after a decade or more since they first started to appear in high end white goods, they are still an expensive option. However, they're beginning to become more commonly featured in high end fridge freezers as ultra quiet, high efficiency surge free starting compressor motors (which is useful for anyone looking to provide power from a small emergency genset during a power blackout - what's not to like about a VFD motor, other than their rather high price premium?). Getting back to the VFD three phase motor's close cousin, the permanent magnet (is there any other type?) BLDC motor driven by an ESC (electronic speed controller) from a DC supply, torque delivery in this class lacks the smoothness of a true three phase motor since only two of the three phase windings are actually being driven at any one time by the controller. Obviously, this is no great detriment in their typical usage or else they wouldn't be so widely deployed as high efficiency alternatives to the classic DC brushed motor used in battery powered cordless drills, screwdrivers, chainsaws and drone prop motors. In the latter case, this allows each of the three windings to provide a back emf zero crossing signal in turn to drive the commutation switching circuit in the 'sensorless' ESCs used with drone propeller motors. This 'sensorless' technique whilst fine with propeller or fan loads, isn't suited to BLDC motors driving gross mechanical loads such as drills and starter motors since it relies on the motor to actually be spinning to generate the commutation sensing signal, the timing of which is critical to the smooth and efficient operation of such motors. To achieve the starting reliability and smooth running of a traditional DC brushed motor, a BLDC motor's controller requires an accurate mechanically synchronised signal independent of speed which works even when at a standstill (startup or stalled by the load). With the more traditional design of BLDC motor, this is achieved by the extra complication of a trio of Hall Effect sensors, precisely aligned for maximum efficiency during their manufacture, making them more expensive. However of late, AMS have produced a neat alternative solution[1] which can trivially be retrofitted to any three phase alternator whether permanent magnet type such as used by emergency inverter gensets or separately excited as in an IC powered vehicle's alternator, neatly converting them into a BLDC motor (a lightweight solution to upgrading a pull cord only start emergency inverter genset to electric start for one instance). Although the BLDC motor has a 'cogging' characteristic more akin to that of a stepper motor, the difference in this case is that it's an undesirable side effect best minimised by design whilst in the stepper motor case it's a desirable effect best maximised by design. Also, the major difference between the two motor types is that stepper motors are normally a two phase design and the BLDC motor is always a three phase one, more akin to that of a traditional three phase AC motor. [1] For the more curious amongst you, there's an in depth article covering the subject of BLDC control at this web address:- https://www.electronicproducts.com/A...l_ICs/Sensors/ Absolute_position_sensing_the_key_to_better_brushl ess_DC_motor_control.aspx https://tinyurl.com/y2u5n9r9 HTH & HAND! :-) Hmmm. In that case why does the motor of our Miele washer do 15000rpm when spinning? -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On Fri, 24 May 2019 19:19:38 +0100, Woody wrote:
On Fri 24/05/2019 17:43, charles wrote: In article , Woody wrote: On Fri 24/05/2019 15:06, Andrew wrote: On 23/05/2019 05:10, Bill Wright wrote: On 22/05/2019 15:53, Woody wrote: For the record most modern machines use a stepping motor which makes it much easier to control direction and speed of rotation. However because it is doing part of the wash it is unlikely to be that at fault. In practice the commonest fault is that the machine has failed to drain as it will not continue if it thinks there is still water in the tub. As has been suggested it could be a coin in the pump or a sock stuck in the outer drum that is blocking the pump inlet - fingers will usually find if it is. The other question, is the OP using liquid wash at lower temps rather than powder? Liquid can cause horrendous gunging up of the pump, the outlet pipe of the machine, and especially the fixed pipe into the drainage system. We have a Miele and they recommend that if you use liquid you should do a long high temp powder wash with the machine empty about once a month or so to remove the gunge. We find it is very effective. Generally if there is gunge it will stink. Interesting. Bill So, a bit like rural broadband delivered by overhead lines, where the phone is never actually used. Ringing the landline number every so often, sends the ?60 volt ringing pulse down the line and helps to prevent cable joints going high-resistance. Usually 50V 25Hz a.c. no. usually 33Hz and less that 100v. The safety elf doesn't like 240v,, Sorry Charles, wrong. In the UK in the days of Strowger the ringing frequency was 17Hz but when Crossbar and electronics came into the arena it went to 25Hz where it stays to this day. Voltage is nominally 50Vac but it is quite normal for this to be as high as 70V - indeed that is the voltage offered by most VoIP ATA units. It is in fact nominally 70v for ISDN lines. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 24/05/2019 18:06, Johnny B Good wrote:
With the more traditional design of BLDC motor, this is achieved by the extra complication of a trio of Hall Effect sensors, precisely aligned for maximum efficiency during their manufacture, making them more expensive. Why can't the manufacturing process include a calibration step for the actual location of the sensors? In fact the controller ought to be able to self calibrate as soon as the drum is spinning at any reasonable speed. Andy |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 24/05/2019 19:21, Woody wrote:
Hmmm. In that case why does the motor of our Miele washer do 15000rpm when spinning? It probably doesn't. Did you mean 1,500 rather than 15,000? Andy |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 24/05/2019 17:43, charles wrote:
Usually 50V 25Hz a.c. no. usually 33Hz and less that 100v. The safety elf doesn't like 240v,, Lets see, 50v. Less than 100V. Check 25Hz well not far of 33Hz. Check In fact in the UK its 20Hz and 90V RMS. -- A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes. |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
In fact in the UK its 20Hz and 90V RMS. BT SIN 351 says 20 to 26Hz at 40 to 100V |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On Friday, 24 May 2019 21:07:52 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 24/05/2019 19:21, Woody wrote: Hmmm. In that case why does the motor of our Miele washer do 15000rpm when spinning? It probably doesn't. Did you mean 1,500 rather than 15,000? Andy I don't know any belt drive WM motor that does 1500rpm. 15k is more typical. NT |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On Fri 24/05/2019 21:07, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 24/05/2019 19:21, Woody wrote: Hmmm. In that case why does the motor of our Miele washer do 15000rpm when spinning? It probably doesn't. Did you mean 1,500 rather than 15,000? No, confirmed from the senior tech who came to replace the belt under warranty that it does 15000rpm - probably why it whistles. I would believe it as well given the motor pulley is only about 3in across (if that) but the drum pulley must be well over a foot and the machine will spin at 1600rpm. -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 25/05/2019 09:17, Woody wrote:
On Fri 24/05/2019 21:07, Vir Campestris wrote: On 24/05/2019 19:21, Woody wrote: Hmmm. In that case why does the motor of our Miele washer do 15000rpm when spinning? It probably doesn't. Did you mean 1,500 rather than 15,000? No, confirmed from the senior tech who came to replace the belt under warranty that it does 15000rpm - probably why it whistles. I would believe it as well given the motor pulley is only about 3in across (if that) but the drum pulley must be well over a foot and the machine will spin at 1600rpm. 15,000 RPM is fairly low for small electric motors. Some of the ones dentists use are over 100k. In model planes, 15,000 wont even get a ducted fan out of bed. And yes we are talking horsepower level motors -- Theres a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons that sound good. Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist) |
Siemens WD14H421GB Washer-Dryer Doesn't Spin
On 24/05/2019 21:07, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 24/05/2019 19:21, Woody wrote: Hmmm. In that case why does the motor of our Miele washer do 15000rpm when spinning? It probably doesn't. Did you mean 1,500 rather than 15,000? It is quite typical of a washing machine for the motor to have no pulley and instead just have multi-v grooves machined into the motor shaft - about 1/2" to 3/4" diameter. The pulley on the back of the drum is typically about 18" diameter. Using the larger drive shaft size, the ratio is: 18":3/4" which equals 24:1. With a spin speed of 1600rpm, that means a motor speed of 38400 rpm. SteveW |
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