I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later this year,
and would like separate control of each rad. I'm looking for motorised
valves which are as small as possible and which will fit on 15mm pipes. The
only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use reducers - but the
whole thing is still too big].

Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so, where from?

TIA.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later this
year,
and would like separate control of each rad. I'm looking for motorised
valves which are as small as possible and which will fit on 15mm pipes.
The
only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use reducers - but the
whole thing is still too big].

I assume they will be visible.


Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so, where
from?

TIA.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!

Set Square wrote:
I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later this year,
and would like separate control of each rad. I'm looking for motorised
valves which are as small as possible and which will fit on 15mm pipes. The
only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use reducers - but the
whole thing is still too big].

Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so, where from?

TIA.

I am planning to do something similar, linking it all into a home
automation system. I was planning to use solenoid valves, as (like you)
I have discounted motorised valves as too big / unwieldy.

I'll probably buy mine from Asco (www.ascojoucomatic.com) as that is who
we use at work, but there are plenty of other suppliers, including RS
(example part number 439-127)

The only concern I have is the 'clunk' as they switch, but hopefully an
anti water hammer model will avoid that.

HTH,

Chris

--
cut along the dotted line to reply

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later this
year,
and would like separate control of each rad. I'm looking for motorised
valves which are as small as possible and which will fit on 15mm pipes.
The
only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use reducers - but the
whole thing is still too big].

Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so, where
from?

I have seen ones in Scandanavia that appear to use the valve from a TRV
together with what I assume is an electromagnet. This is 15mm and very
small, though the peak flow is quite low I imagine.

But not sure where you get them in the UK.

In article , G&M
writes

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later this
year,
and would like separate control of each rad. I'm looking for motorised
valves which are as small as possible and which will fit on 15mm pipes.
The
only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use reducers - but the
whole thing is still too big].

Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so, where
from?

I have seen ones in Scandanavia that appear to use the valve from a TRV
together with what I assume is an electromagnet. This is 15mm and very
small, though the peak flow is quite low I imagine.

But not sure where you get them in the UK.

The ones I've heard of use the mechanics of a TRV and a heater to activate
the TRV capsule. Have seen them recently in individual hospital rooms to
have timed control but they seem to be v expensive by virtue of low
demand. They have been mentioned in this group, try a google groups.
Andy Gabriel I think has mentioned making a low cost version by adding a
heater to a regular TRV, again google.
--
fred

Set Square wrote on Sunday (22/02/2004) :
I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later this year,
and would like separate control of each rad. I'm looking for motorised
valves which are as small as possible and which will fit on 15mm pipes. The
only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use reducers - but the
whole thing is still too big].

Solenoid valve are available which are quite small, the problem might
be the noise they make as they energise and de-energise. They are
though much more reliable than motorised valves.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:24:47 -0000, "Set Square"
wrote:

I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later this year,
and would like separate control of each rad. I'm looking for motorised
valves which are as small as possible and which will fit on 15mm pipes. The
only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use reducers - but the
whole thing is still too big].

Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so, where from?

TIA.

A good solution for this is to use Sauter drives in place of the TRVs.

The cheapest is the AXT111 F200 which is a thermal drive. These fit
onto the base of a TRV in place of the normal head

http://www.sauter-controls.com/pds/pds/pdf/pd55012e.pdf

The valve is held closed with a spring to turn it off. When heat is
required, power (230v, although there is a lower voltage one) is
applied. This warms an expansion element and opens the valve.
Operation is silent and in operation they use under 3W.

RS have these at about £35, but a better deal should be possible from
Controls Center.

You could also fit one of these drives onto a 15mm base which Sauter
also makes.

I've used some of Sauter's motorised drives (AXM 117S)

http://www.sauter-controls.com/pds/pds/pdf/pd55011e.pdf

These run with a 24v supply and can be set to any position with a
0-10vDC control voltage. They are also silent in operation, but
cost more than the thermal ones. I'm designing a special purpose
system which provides the necessary control voltages.

It should be possible to control a thermal drive with either a simple
thermostat or a pulse proportional controller like a CM67 or
equivalent.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Andy Hall wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:24:47 -0000, "Set Square"
wrote:

I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later
this year, and would like separate control of each rad. I'm looking
for motorised valves which are as small as possible and which will
fit on 15mm pipes. The only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I
can use reducers - but the whole thing is still too big].

Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so,
where from?

TIA.

A good solution for this is to use Sauter drives in place of the TRVs.

The cheapest is the AXT111 F200 which is a thermal drive. These fit
onto the base of a TRV in place of the normal head

http://www.sauter-controls.com/pds/pds/pdf/pd55012e.pdf

The valve is held closed with a spring to turn it off. When heat is
required, power (230v, although there is a lower voltage one) is
applied. This warms an expansion element and opens the valve.
Operation is silent and in operation they use under 3W.

RS have these at about £35, but a better deal should be possible from
Controls Center.


Sounds interesting, and could be better than trying to hide motorised valves
under floorboards etc. I note from the pdf file that they also have optional
auxiliary contacts - which should make it possible to integrate them into an
S-Plan-plus control system. The only thing is, though, that the contacts
make when the valve is 35%-50% open rather than fully open. I'm not sure
whether this is a problem? I suppose if the boiler and pump fire up a bit
early, it's not too disastrous as long as there is an automatic by-pass
circuit. I suppose, also, that it's far better than the alternative of
having a relay in parallel with the valve - which switches when the "start
to think about opening" command is sent to the valve!

--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:12:54 -0000, "Set Square"
wrote:




Sounds interesting, and could be better than trying to hide motorised valves
under floorboards etc. I note from the pdf file that they also have optional
auxiliary contacts - which should make it possible to integrate them into an
S-Plan-plus control system. The only thing is, though, that the contacts
make when the valve is 35%-50% open rather than fully open. I'm not sure
whether this is a problem? I suppose if the boiler and pump fire up a bit
early, it's not too disastrous as long as there is an automatic by-pass
circuit. I suppose, also, that it's far better than the alternative of
having a relay in parallel with the valve - which switches when the "start
to think about opening" command is sent to the valve!


I don't think that that would be a problem at all.

Think about the behaviour of simple TRVs. These have a thermal
capsule which expands and pushes down the pin of the valve. This is
an "analogue" effect, not a "digital" one, so at different room
temperatures the valve would be anywhere from fully open to fully
closed.

If you are concerned about the bypass aspect, you could always fit a
pressure activated automatic bypass valve.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , G&M
writes

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later
this
year,
and would like separate control of each rad. I'm looking for
motorised
valves which are as small as possible and which will fit on 15mm
pipes.
The
only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use reducers -
but the
whole thing is still too big].

Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so,
where
from?

I have seen ones in Scandanavia that appear to use the valve from a
TRV
together with what I assume is an electromagnet. This is 15mm and
very
small, though the peak flow is quite low I imagine.

But not sure where you get them in the UK.

The ones I've heard of use the mechanics of a TRV and a heater to
activate
the TRV capsule. Have seen them recently in individual hospital rooms
to
have timed control but they seem to be v expensive by virtue of low
demand. They have been mentioned in this group, try a google groups.

Search for "prefect controls". I have posted about my experience with
these heads for trv bases a couple of times, and I'm still pleased with
the results. I have three of these waiting for a suitably shaped tuit.


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. )***

"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , G&M
writes

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later this
year,
and would like separate control of each rad. I'm looking for motorised
valves which are as small as possible and which will fit on 15mm pipes.
The
only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use reducers - but
the
whole thing is still too big].

Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so, where
from?

I have seen ones in Scandanavia that appear to use the valve from a TRV
together with what I assume is an electromagnet. This is 15mm and very
small, though the peak flow is quite low I imagine.

But not sure where you get them in the UK.

The ones I've heard of use the mechanics of a TRV and a heater to activate
the TRV capsule. Have seen them recently in individual hospital rooms to
have timed control but they seem to be v expensive by virtue of low
demand. They have been mentioned in this group, try a google groups.
Andy Gabriel I think has mentioned making a low cost version by adding a
heater to a regular TRV, again google.

Ahem!

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...pc16.rdg.ac.uk

In article khm_b.55$bJ1.52@newsfe1-win, John Stumbles john.stumbl
writes
"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , G&M
writes

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later this
year,
and would like separate control of each rad. I'm looking for motorised
valves which are as small as possible and which will fit on 15mm pipes.
The
only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use reducers - but
the
whole thing is still too big].

Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so, where
from?

I have seen ones in Scandanavia that appear to use the valve from a TRV
together with what I assume is an electromagnet. This is 15mm and very
small, though the peak flow is quite low I imagine.

But not sure where you get them in the UK.

The ones I've heard of use the mechanics of a TRV and a heater to activate
the TRV capsule. Have seen them recently in individual hospital rooms to
have timed control but they seem to be v expensive by virtue of low
demand. They have been mentioned in this group, try a google groups.
Andy Gabriel I think has mentioned making a low cost version by adding a
heater to a regular TRV, again google.

Ahem!

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...2570.232-10000
0%40supc16.rdg.ac.uk

Ah, the original and best. Good thread, sorry I missed it; I was a bit busy
in '99 ;-). I've eight zone valves in my control cupboard, with sep pipes to
each zone (room). Pipe runs were easy for me so I went that route. Retrofit
or difficult runs & I'd be going the resistor route, needs the right TRV tho';
the cheapies I got from s'fix would have been a b'ger to modify, Draytons
strike me as an easy option with the big exposed head ??.
--
fred

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:54:37 +0000, Autolycus wrote:


"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , G&M
writes

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later
this
year,
and would like separate control of each rad. I'm looking for
motorised
valves which are as small as possible and which will fit on 15mm
pipes.
The
only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use reducers -
but the
whole thing is still too big].

Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so,
where
from?

I have seen ones in Scandanavia that appear to use the valve from a
TRV
together with what I assume is an electromagnet. This is 15mm and
very
small, though the peak flow is quite low I imagine.

But not sure where you get them in the UK.

The ones I've heard of use the mechanics of a TRV and a heater to
activate
the TRV capsule. Have seen them recently in individual hospital rooms
to
have timed control but they seem to be v expensive by virtue of low
demand. They have been mentioned in this group, try a google groups.

Search for "prefect controls". I have posted about my experience with
these heads for trv bases a couple of times, and I'm still pleased with
the results. I have three of these waiting for a suitably shaped tuit.

The obvious way would be to use a couple of reducing 22/15 sets in place of the
22mm olive in a 'standard' control.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later
this year, and would like separate control of each rad. I'm
looking for motorised valves which are as small as possible and which
will fit on 15mm
pipes. The only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use
reducers - but the whole thing is still too big].

Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so,
where
from?

The obvious way would be to use a couple of reducing 22/15 sets in
place of the 22mm olive in a 'standard' control.

We seem to have gone full circle! In my original post - quoted in full
above - I said, "Yes, I know I can use reducers - but the whole thing is
still too big"!


--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!

honeywell have just produced a valve that replaces the rad valve and can be
set up for various tempratures in each room which is cordless and will send
a signal to the boiler to fire when a rad requires it. probably costs a
fortune !






"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Ed Sirett wrote:


"Set Square" wrote in message
...
I am considering overhauling and zoning my central heating later
this year, and would like separate control of each rad. I'm
looking for motorised valves which are as small as possible and
which
will fit on 15mm
pipes. The only ones I can find are 22mm. [Yes, I know I can use
reducers - but the whole thing is still too big].

Does anyone know whether smaller ones are available and, if so,
where
from?

The obvious way would be to use a couple of reducing 22/15 sets in
place of the 22mm olive in a 'standard' control.

We seem to have gone full circle! In my original post - quoted in full
above - I said, "Yes, I know I can use reducers - but the whole thing is
still too big"!


--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!

"Phil Nettleton" wrote in message
...
honeywell have just produced a valve that replaces the rad valve and
can be
set up for various tempratures in each room which is cordless and will
send
a signal to the boiler to fire when a rad requires it. probably costs
a
fortune !


If you are referring to the HR80, I phoned RKM Heating Controls for
pricing, as suggested by Set Square, but they have not had any details
from Honeywell yet. Also, the CM67z is a 2-zone affair and from a
previous thread it seems Set Square wants more control than that.

Regards

Neil

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Neil Jones wrote:

"Phil Nettleton" wrote in message
...
honeywell have just produced a valve that replaces the rad valve and
can be set up for various tempratures in each room which is cordless
and will send a signal to the boiler to fire when a rad requires it.
probably costs a fortune !


If you are referring to the HR80, I phoned RKM Heating Controls for
pricing, as suggested by Set Square, but they have not had any details
from Honeywell yet. Also, the CM67z is a 2-zone affair and from a
previous thread it seems Set Square wants more control than that.

Regards

Neil

Yes, that's right! It currently looking like a CM67 (not z) in each room,
with one of those wax-heating valves on each rad. I'd still really prefer a
motorised valve which could be fitted in the 15mm pipework under the
floorboards or inside cupboards - and which is much smaller than a normal
22mm valve plus reducers - since far less would then be visible, and there
wouldn't be any cables connected to the rads. Unfortunately, I haven't found
anything suitable yet!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Neil Jones wrote:

"Phil Nettleton" wrote in message
...
honeywell have just produced a valve that replaces the rad valve
and
can be set up for various tempratures in each room which is
cordless
and will send a signal to the boiler to fire when a rad requires
it.
probably costs a fortune !


If you are referring to the HR80, I phoned RKM Heating Controls for
pricing, as suggested by Set Square, but they have not had any
details
from Honeywell yet. Also, the CM67z is a 2-zone affair and from a
previous thread it seems Set Square wants more control than that.

Regards

Neil

Yes, that's right! It currently looking like a CM67 (not z) in each
room,
with one of those wax-heating valves on each rad. I'd still really
prefer a
motorised valve which could be fitted in the 15mm pipework under the
floorboards or inside cupboards - and which is much smaller than a
normal
22mm valve plus reducers - since far less would then be visible, and
there
wouldn't be any cables connected to the rads. Unfortunately, I haven't
found
anything suitable yet!

Gap in the market?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Neil Jones wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Neil Jones wrote:


Yes, that's right! It currently looking like a CM67 (not z) in each
room, with one of those wax-heating valves on each rad. I'd still
really prefer a motorised valve which could be fitted in the 15mm
pipework under the floorboards or inside cupboards - and which is
much smaller than a normal 22mm valve plus reducers - since far less
would then be visible, and there wouldn't be any cables connected to
the rads. Unfortunately, I haven't found anything suitable yet!

Gap in the market?


Maybe! Or maybe the motor part would still have to be the same size - in
which case there wouldn't be much saving in space by the valve itself being
15mm rather than 22mm.

Unless anyone knows differently . . .?
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!