https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/

On 03/04/2019 18:24, harry wrote:
https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/


Is this a list of the don't leave MPs and staff that have received
threats from brexiteers?

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that want
to stay.

Just shows what sort of people voted leave.

On Wednesday, 3 April 2019 18:50:26 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:24, harry wrote:
https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/


Is this a list of the don't leave MPs and staff that have received
threats from brexiteers?

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that want
to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.

harry wrote:
There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs
from people that want to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.

Had the 2016 referendum gone the other way, I don't expect that those
who believed in a brexit - of whatever sort - would have just shrugged
their shoulders, thought "ah, well", and never mentioned the subject
ever again. I fully expect that they would have kept airing their
views, and campaigning for their ideas, as is their right to do so.

Likewise, those who believe in remaining in the EU are equally free to
say so if they choose. They can form political parties or other
organizations to promote this if they want, and may even at some point
in the future succeed in achieving this; whether you (or I) like that
or not.

Having a different opinion to the majority - whether a marginal
majority, or a significant one - is allowed in our democracy. We are
also allowed to speak quite freely, whether in favour of majority
opionions, or against them. We can vote for one electoral candidate
this time, and another the next. We can vote tactically for candidates
or parties or proposals we do not like - in order to stop something
we see as worse - just as we might vote directly for our first
preference.

Campaigners for policies that differ from the current ones are not
ignoring democracy. They are an integral part of how democracy works.

#Paul

On 05/04/2019 12:26, wrote:
harry wrote:
There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs
from people that want to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.

Had the 2016 referendum gone the other way, I don't expect that those
who believed in a brexit - of whatever sort - would have just shrugged
their shoulders, thought "ah, well", and never mentioned the subject
ever again. I fully expect that they would have kept airing their
views, and campaigning for their ideas, as is their right to do so.

Likewise, those who believe in remaining in the EU are equally free to
say so if they choose. They can form political parties or other
organizations to promote this if they want, and may even at some point
in the future succeed in achieving this; whether you (or I) like that
or not.

Having a different opinion to the majority - whether a marginal
majority, or a significant one - is allowed in our democracy. We are
also allowed to speak quite freely, whether in favour of majority
opionions, or against them. We can vote for one electoral candidate
this time, and another the next. We can vote tactically for candidates
or parties or proposals we do not like - in order to stop something
we see as worse - just as we might vote directly for our first
preference.

Campaigners for policies that differ from the current ones are not
ignoring democracy. They are an integral part of how democracy works.

That's not the democracy the brexiteers want.

On 05/04/2019 14:29, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 12:26, wrote:
harry wrote:
There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs
from people that want to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.

Had the 2016 referendum gone the other way, I don't expect that those
who believed in a brexit - of whatever sort - would have just shrugged
their shoulders, thought "ah, well", and never mentioned the subject
ever again. I fully expect that they would have kept airing their
views, and campaigning for their ideas, as is their right to do so.

Likewise, those who believe in remaining in the EU are equally free to
say so if they choose. They can form political parties or other
organizations to promote this if they want, and may even at some point
in the future succeed in achieving this; whether you (or I) like that
or not.

Having a different opinion to the majority - whether a marginal
majority, or a significant one - is allowed in our democracy. We are
also allowed to speak quite freely, whether in favour of majority
opionions, or against them. We can vote for one electoral candidate
this time, and another the next. We can vote tactically for candidates
or parties or proposals we do not like - in order to stop something
we see as worse - just as we might vote directly for our first
preference.

Campaigners for policies that differ from the current ones are not
ignoring democracy. They are an integral part of how democracy works.

That's not the democracy the brexiteers want.
That statement,in itself, is an abrogation of democracy.

On 05/04/2019 12:26, wrote:
harry wrote:
There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs
from people that want to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.

Had the 2016 referendum gone the other way, I don't expect that those
who believed in a brexit - of whatever sort - would have just shrugged
their shoulders, thought "ah, well", and never mentioned the subject
ever again. I fully expect that they would have kept airing their
views, and campaigning for their ideas, as is their right to do so.

Likewise, those who believe in remaining in the EU are equally free to
say so if they choose. They can form political parties or other
organizations to promote this if they want, and may even at some point
in the future succeed in achieving this; whether you (or I) like that
or not.

I would certainly have accepted the result. Yes I would have continued
to air my views, but I would not have expected to change how much we
remained or to have another referendum for another 15 years or more.
Somehow remainers want to decide what leavers wanted, to rerun the
referedum and to totally reverse its result before the Brexit we voted
for has even started to be implemented!

By all means come back after a decent delay and campaign for a
referendum to rejoin, but don't try to ignore the leave vote before
we've had a chance to have had independence for a reasonable number of
years and maybe, just maybe, in the medium to long term, it will have
worked out well and people won't want to rejoin.

SteveW

On 03/04/2019 19:41, harry wrote:

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that want
to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.


Democracy: is it being suggested that the majority is always in the
right? Like in Rwanda, where the Hutu majority decided to kill off 70%
of the Tutsi minority?

On 05/04/2019 16:34, GB wrote:
On 03/04/2019 19:41, harry wrote:

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that want
to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.


Democracy: is it being suggested that the majority is always in the
right? Like in Rwanda, where the Hutu majority decided to kill off 70%
of the Tutsi minority?

No. It is being suggested that te minoritry is in the right, that those
who voted remnain - all 30% of them musts have their way and force their
ideas on everyone else.


--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On 05/04/2019 14:34, Broadback wrote:
On 05/04/2019 14:29, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 12:26, wrote:
harry wrote:
There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs
from people that want to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.

Had the 2016 referendum gone the other way, I don't expect that those
who believed in a brexit - of whatever sort - would have just shrugged
their shoulders, thought "ah, well", and never mentioned the subject
ever again. I fully expect that they would have kept airing their
views, and campaigning for their ideas, as is their right to do so.

Likewise, those who believe in remaining in the EU are equally free to
say so if they choose. They can form political parties or other
organizations to promote this if they want, and may even at some point
in the future succeed in achieving this; whether you (or I) like that
or not.

Having a different opinion to the majority - whether a marginal
majority, or a significant one - is allowed in our democracy. We are
also allowed to speak quite freely, whether in favour of majority
opionions, or against them. We can vote for one electoral candidate
this time, and another the next. We can vote tactically for candidates
or parties or proposals we do not like - in order to stop something
we see as worse - just as we might vote directly for our first
preference.

Campaigners for policies that differ from the current ones are not
ignoring democracy. They are an integral part of how democracy works.

That's not the democracy the brexiteers want.
That statement,in itself, is an abrogation of democracy.

Brexiteers are unwilling to accept that the people may have changed
their mind and refuse to find out.
That is unless they wanted the people to change their mind to suit what
they wanted.

On 05/04/2019 16:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/04/2019 16:34, GB wrote:
On 03/04/2019 19:41, harry wrote:

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that want
to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.


Democracy: is it being suggested that the majority is always in the
right? Like in Rwanda, where the Hutu majority decided to kill off 70%
of the Tutsi minority?

No. It is being suggested that te minoritry is in the right, that those
who voted remnain - all 30% of them musts have their way and force their
ideas on everyone else.



The only thing most remain voters want is another vote now the leave
lies have been exposed.

UKIP stated that if the vote didn't go their way by a small margin(25+%)
they would want another vote.

So what's wrong with those that voted stay wanting another vote?

Like I said levers idea of democracy is that if it doesn't go their way
its not democracy.

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 05/04/2019 16:34, GB wrote:
On 03/04/2019 19:41, harry wrote:

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want
to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.

Democracy: is it being suggested that the majority is always in the
right? Like in Rwanda, where the Hutu majority decided to kill off 70%
of the Tutsi minority?

No. It is being suggested that te minoritry is in the right, that those
who voted remnain - all 30% of them musts have their way and force
their ideas on everyone else.

Hardly. As has been said by many others, things have moved on in the
last 2+ years.
If they are still the minority you claim, what are you risking by
allowing this to be confirmed?
Curiously, my wife voted leave. More curiously she could not explain
why. Some emotional mix of sovereignty and our place in the world.



--
Tim Lamb

On 05/04/2019 18:13, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 16:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/04/2019 16:34, GB wrote:
On 03/04/2019 19:41, harry wrote:

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want
to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.


Democracy: is it being suggested that the majority is always in the
right? Like in Rwanda, where the Hutu majority decided to kill off
70% of the Tutsi minority?

No. It is being suggested that te minoritry is in the right, that
those who voted remnain - all 30% of them musts have their way and
force their ideas on everyone else.



The only thing most remain voters want is another vote now the leave
lies have been exposed.

UKIP stated that if the vote didn't go their way by a small margin(25+%)
they would want another vote.

So what's wrong with those that voted stay wanting another vote?

One of the problems is that it smacks of the way other EU referenda in
other countries have been treated when they have not gone as planned -
pour out a load of negative propaganda and get them to vote again.

Funnily enough, they don't get to vote again if it has gone as planned
first time.

SteveW

On 05/04/2019 17:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 14:34, Broadback wrote:
On 05/04/2019 14:29, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 12:26, wrote:
harry wrote:
There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs
from people that want to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.

Had the 2016 referendum gone the other way, I don't expect that those
who believed in a brexit - of whatever sort - would have just shrugged
their shoulders, thought "ah, well", and never mentioned the subject
ever again. I fully expect that they would have kept airing their
views, and campaigning for their ideas, as is their right to do so.

Likewise, those who believe in remaining in the EU are equally free to
say so if they choose. They can form political parties or other
organizations to promote this if they want, and may even at some point
in the future succeed in achieving this; whether you (or I) like that
or not.

Having a different opinion to the majority - whether a marginal
majority, or a significant one - is allowed in our democracy. We are
also allowed to speak quite freely, whether in favour of majority
opionions, or against them. We can vote for one electoral candidate
this time, and another the next. We can vote tactically for candidates
or parties or proposals we do not like - in order to stop something
we see as worse - just as we might vote directly for our first
preference.

Campaigners for policies that differ from the current ones are not
ignoring democracy. They are an integral part of how democracy works.

That's not the democracy the brexiteers want.
That statement,in itself, is an abrogation of democracy.

Brexiteers are unwilling to accept that the people may have changed
their mind and refuse to find out.
That is unless they wanted the people to change their mind to suit what
they wanted.

It is simply too soon. The result of the referendum was leave and it is
time to actually do so and allow enough years for any short term
problems to work through. Then, in the medium to long term, after it has
had time to bed in and become normal. if people want a referendum on
rejoining, fine. At the moment remainers want to reverse the result
before it has even been implemented, never mind before it has actually
been tried!


SteveW

On 05/04/2019 23:03, Steve Walker wrote:
It is simply too soon. The result of the referendum was leave and it is
time to actually do so and allow enough years for any short term
problems to work through. Then, in the medium to long term, after it has
had time to bed in and become normal. if people want a referendum on
rejoining, fine. At the moment remainers want to reverse the result
before it has even been implemented, never mind before it has actually
been tried!

What puzzles me about thsoe who consider the EU a benign dictatorship or
even basically a nice bunch of chasps, is why, if they were, leaving
them would result in such damage.

After all they would never act to maximise the damage to the UK out of
spite would they? To keep a crumbling empire together out of fear greed
and vindictiveness? When thy could minimse the damage and stitch up
trade deals ever so easily if they had a mind to.


Not those nice cuddly Eurocrats, surely? They would never lie to us or
behave like total ****s, would they?



--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

On Friday, 5 April 2019 23:03:17 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 05/04/2019 17:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 14:34, Broadback wrote:
On 05/04/2019 14:29, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 12:26, wrote:
harry wrote:
There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs
from people that want to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.

Had the 2016 referendum gone the other way, I don't expect that those
who believed in a brexit - of whatever sort - would have just shrugged
their shoulders, thought "ah, well", and never mentioned the subject
ever again. I fully expect that they would have kept airing their
views, and campaigning for their ideas, as is their right to do so.

Likewise, those who believe in remaining in the EU are equally free to
say so if they choose. They can form political parties or other
organizations to promote this if they want, and may even at some point
in the future succeed in achieving this; whether you (or I) like that
or not.

Having a different opinion to the majority - whether a marginal
majority, or a significant one - is allowed in our democracy. We are
also allowed to speak quite freely, whether in favour of majority
opionions, or against them. We can vote for one electoral candidate
this time, and another the next. We can vote tactically for candidates
or parties or proposals we do not like - in order to stop something
we see as worse - just as we might vote directly for our first
preference.

Campaigners for policies that differ from the current ones are not
ignoring democracy. They are an integral part of how democracy works..

That's not the democracy the brexiteers want.
That statement,in itself, is an abrogation of democracy.

Brexiteers are unwilling to accept that the people may have changed
their mind and refuse to find out.
That is unless they wanted the people to change their mind to suit what
they wanted.

It is simply too soon. The result of the referendum was leave and it is
time to actually do so and allow enough years for any short term
problems to work through. Then, in the medium to long term, after it has
had time to bed in and become normal. if people want a referendum on
rejoining, fine. At the moment remainers want to reverse the result
before it has even been implemented, never mind before it has actually
been tried!


SteveW

Except that rejoining would almost certainly be on different terms. And the sheer disruption of leaving is huge. It is an awful lot to go through if in, say, three or seven years, we turn round and say "Please...".

Should a future rejoin referendum indicate desire to rejoin, those who voted against would not simply go "OK" and leave it be. They would continue to argue we should not rejoin. And ask for another referendum because, well, because their view is the opposite.

I am also trying to see ANY future UK government ever holding another referendum. I suspect they would impose a requirement for more than a thin majority to carry the result into action.

I know full well it wouldn't really work, but I have imagined holding such a referendum *every* year. But waiting for perhaps three consecutive "change of state" results before acting. And even then, properly preparing, taking whatever time is required.

On Friday, 5 April 2019 16:34:55 UTC+1, GB wrote:
On 03/04/2019 19:41, harry wrote:

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that want
to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.


Democracy: is it being suggested that the majority is always in the
right? Like in Rwanda, where the Hutu majority decided to kill off 70%
of the Tutsi minority?

I'll quote someone else quoting Ibsen:

€œThe Minority is Always Right€� €“ when I heard this quote from Ibsens €œAn Enemy of the People€� for the first time about 15 years ago it sounded absurd to me, in large part because it went against the most fundamental principle of democracy, which says that we are to follow the majoritys will. However, as years went by, I started realizing the most profound wisdom of this statement. I have been periodically thinking about this quote in so many different situations, and I find more and more ways in which the minority seems to be right, while the majority seems to be so off.

When I first came across that line, I spent some time thinking it through and came up with so many possible interpretations. Yes, those who dislike the EU and have wanted to leave for a long time, who at least *were* a minority, should not be trampled simply because the majority thinks otherwise. Their fears, concerns, etc., need to be considered. They might well have some rightness.

At the same time, a minority which becomes a majority should not dismiss everyone else.

On 05/04/2019 22:58, Steve Walker wrote:
On 05/04/2019 18:13, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 16:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/04/2019 16:34, GB wrote:
On 03/04/2019 19:41, harry wrote:

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want
to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.


Democracy: is it being suggested that the majority is always in the
right? Like in Rwanda, where the Hutu majority decided to kill off
70% of the Tutsi minority?

No. It is being suggested that te minoritry is in the right, that
those who voted remnain - all 30% of them musts have their way and
force their ideas on everyone else.



The only thing most remain voters want is another vote now the leave
lies have been exposed.

UKIP stated that if the vote didn't go their way by a small
margin(25+%) they would want another vote.

So what's wrong with those that voted stay wanting another vote?

One of the problems is that it smacks of the way other EU referenda in
other countries have been treated when they have not gone as planned -
pour out a load of negative propaganda and get them to vote again.

And you think leave didn't pour out loads of negative propaganda, most
of which was lies.
They have been doing so for decades.
What else do UKIP and others do?



Funnily enough, they don't get to vote again if it has gone as planned
first time.

SteveW

On 05/04/2019 23:03, Steve Walker wrote:
On 05/04/2019 17:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 14:34, Broadback wrote:
On 05/04/2019 14:29, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 12:26, wrote:
harry wrote:
There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs
from people that want to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.

Had the 2016 referendum gone the other way, I don't expect that those
who believed in a brexit - of whatever sort - would have just shrugged
their shoulders, thought "ah, well", and never mentioned the subject
ever again. I fully expect that they would have kept airing their
views, and campaigning for their ideas, as is their right to do so.

Likewise, those who believe in remaining in the EU are equally free to
say so if they choose. They can form political parties or other
organizations to promote this if they want, and may even at some point
in the future succeed in achieving this; whether you (or I) like that
or not.

Having a different opinion to the majority - whether a marginal
majority, or a significant one - is allowed in our democracy. We are
also allowed to speak quite freely, whether in favour of majority
opionions, or against them. We can vote for one electoral candidate
this time, and another the next. We can vote tactically for candidates
or parties or proposals we do not like - in order to stop something
we see as worse - just as we might vote directly for our first
preference.

Campaigners for policies that differ from the current ones are not
ignoring democracy. They are an integral part of how democracy works.

That's not the democracy the brexiteers want.
That statement,in itself, is an abrogation of democracy.

Brexiteers are unwilling to accept that the people may have changed
their mind and refuse to find out.
That is unless they wanted the people to change their mind to suit
what they wanted.

It is simply too soon. The result of the referendum was leave and it is
time to actually do so and allow enough years for any short term
problems to work through. Then, in the medium to long term, after it has
had time to bed in and become normal. if people want a referendum on
rejoining, fine. At the moment remainers want to reverse the result
before it has even been implemented, never mind before it has actually
been tried!


SteveW

There are good reasons to reverse it.
If we leave now for no good reason then when we rejoin we will have to
join the Euro, contribute more and meet other EU requirements as for
other countries.

Remain voters should start a campaign to rejoin immediately.

On Saturday, 6 April 2019 08:30:23 UTC+1, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Friday, 5 April 2019 23:03:17 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 05/04/2019 17:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 14:34, Broadback wrote:
On 05/04/2019 14:29, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 12:26, wrote:
harry wrote:
There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs
from people that want to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.

Had the 2016 referendum gone the other way, I don't expect that those
who believed in a brexit - of whatever sort - would have just shrugged
their shoulders, thought "ah, well", and never mentioned the subject
ever again. I fully expect that they would have kept airing their
views, and campaigning for their ideas, as is their right to do so..

Likewise, those who believe in remaining in the EU are equally free to
say so if they choose. They can form political parties or other
organizations to promote this if they want, and may even at some point
in the future succeed in achieving this; whether you (or I) like that
or not.

Having a different opinion to the majority - whether a marginal
majority, or a significant one - is allowed in our democracy. We are
also allowed to speak quite freely, whether in favour of majority
opionions, or against them. We can vote for one electoral candidate
this time, and another the next. We can vote tactically for candidates
or parties or proposals we do not like - in order to stop something
we see as worse - just as we might vote directly for our first
preference.

Campaigners for policies that differ from the current ones are not
ignoring democracy. They are an integral part of how democracy works.

That's not the democracy the brexiteers want.
That statement,in itself, is an abrogation of democracy.

Brexiteers are unwilling to accept that the people may have changed
their mind and refuse to find out.
That is unless they wanted the people to change their mind to suit what
they wanted.

It is simply too soon. The result of the referendum was leave and it is
time to actually do so and allow enough years for any short term
problems to work through. Then, in the medium to long term, after it has
had time to bed in and become normal. if people want a referendum on
rejoining, fine. At the moment remainers want to reverse the result
before it has even been implemented, never mind before it has actually
been tried!


SteveW

Except that rejoining would almost certainly be on different terms. And the sheer disruption of leaving is huge. It is an awful lot to go through if in, say, three or seven years, we turn round and say "Please...".

Should a future rejoin referendum indicate desire to rejoin, those who voted against would not simply go "OK" and leave it be. They would continue to argue we should not rejoin. And ask for another referendum because, well, because their view is the opposite.

I am also trying to see ANY future UK government ever holding another referendum. I suspect they would impose a requirement for more than a thin majority to carry the result into action.

I know full well it wouldn't really work, but I have imagined holding such a referendum *every* year. But waiting for perhaps three consecutive "change of state" results before acting. And even then, properly preparing, taking whatever time is required.

The EUSSR wil be gone in a few years.
Especially if we leave

On 06/04/2019 03:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/04/2019 23:03, Steve Walker wrote:
It is simply too soon. The result of the referendum was leave and it
is time to actually do so and allow enough years for any short term
problems to work through. Then, in the medium to long term, after it
has had time to bed in and become normal. if people want a referendum
on rejoining, fine. At the moment remainers want to reverse the result
before it has even been implemented, never mind before it has actually
been tried!

What puzzles me about thsoe who consider the EU a benign dictatorship or
even basically a nice bunch of chasps, is why, if they were, leaving
them would result in such damage.

After all they would never act to maximise the damage to the UK out of
spite would they? To keep a crumbling empire together out of fear greed
and vindictiveness? When thy could minimse the damage and stitch up
trade deals ever so easily if they had a mind to.

This is typical brexiteer stuff..

if it goes wrong we can blame the EU.
They are already preparing for the disaster by saying the EU will do its
utmost to destroy the UK.
We already have lots of experts telling us that leaving will damage the
UK whatever the EU does but no its all a conspiracy according to brexiteers.



Not those nice cuddly Eurocrats, surely? They would never lie to us or
behave like total ****s, would they?


Here we have more typical brexiteer propaganda..

its OK for the UK to act in its self interest but if others act in their
best interests they are cnuts.

Why would anyone act on what this bunch of brexiteers say when they just
make stuff up?

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 05/04/2019 18:13, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 16:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/04/2019 16:34, GB wrote:
On 03/04/2019 19:41, harry wrote:

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want
to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.


Democracy: is it being suggested that the majority is always in the
right? Like in Rwanda, where the Hutu majority decided to kill off 70%
of the Tutsi minority?

No. It is being suggested that te minoritry is in the right, that those
who voted remnain - all 30% of them musts have their way and force their
ideas on everyone else.



The only thing most remain voters want is another vote now the leave lies
have been exposed.

UKIP stated that if the vote didn't go their way by a small margin(25+%)
they would want another vote.

So what's wrong with those that voted stay wanting another vote?

One of the problems is that it smacks of the way other EU referenda in
other countries have been treated when they have not gone as planned -
pour out a load of negative propaganda and get them to vote again.

Funnily enough, they don't get to vote again if it has gone as planned
first time.

They dont normally just pour out negative propaganda, they
usually change some of the detail on what is being voted on.

On Sun, 7 Apr 2019 07:30:04 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


One of the problems is that it smacks of the way other EU referenda in
other countries have been treated when they have not gone as planned -
pour out a load of negative propaganda and get them to vote again.

Funnily enough, they don't get to vote again if it has gone as planned
first time.

They don¢t normally just pour out negative propaganda, they
usually change some of the detail on what is being voted on.

No negative propaganda needed, Ozzie asshole. The entire world can see what
a farce the UK has become! Actually people all over the world are laughing
and shaking their heads at what goes on in the UK now! LOL

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID:

On 03/04/2019 18:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:24, harry wrote:
https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/


Is this a list of the don't leave MPs and staff that have received
threats from brexiteers?

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that want
to stay.

There seems a whole lot of abuse from them.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 6 April 2019 08:30:23 UTC+1, polygonum_on_google wrote:
On Friday, 5 April 2019 23:03:17 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 05/04/2019 17:12, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 14:34, Broadback wrote:
On 05/04/2019 14:29, dennis@home wrote:
On 05/04/2019 12:26, wrote:
harry wrote:
There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs
from people that want to stay.

People that ignore democracy you mean.

Had the 2016 referendum gone the other way, I don't expect that
those
who believed in a brexit - of whatever sort - would have just
shrugged
their shoulders, thought "ah, well", and never mentioned the
subject
ever again. I fully expect that they would have kept airing their
views, and campaigning for their ideas, as is their right to do
so.

Likewise, those who believe in remaining in the EU are equally
free to
say so if they choose. They can form political parties or other
organizations to promote this if they want, and may even at some
point
in the future succeed in achieving this; whether you (or I) like
that
or not.

Having a different opinion to the majority - whether a marginal
majority, or a significant one - is allowed in our democracy. We
are
also allowed to speak quite freely, whether in favour of majority
opionions, or against them. We can vote for one electoral
candidate
this time, and another the next. We can vote tactically for
candidates
or parties or proposals we do not like - in order to stop
something
we see as worse - just as we might vote directly for our first
preference.

Campaigners for policies that differ from the current ones are not
ignoring democracy. They are an integral part of how democracy
works.

That's not the democracy the brexiteers want.
That statement,in itself, is an abrogation of democracy.

Brexiteers are unwilling to accept that the people may have changed
their mind and refuse to find out.
That is unless they wanted the people to change their mind to suit
what
they wanted.

It is simply too soon. The result of the referendum was leave and it is
time to actually do so and allow enough years for any short term
problems to work through. Then, in the medium to long term, after it
has
had time to bed in and become normal. if people want a referendum on
rejoining, fine. At the moment remainers want to reverse the result
before it has even been implemented, never mind before it has actually
been tried!


SteveW

Except that rejoining would almost certainly be on different terms. And
the sheer disruption of leaving is huge. It is an awful lot to go through
if in, say, three or seven years, we turn round and say "Please...".

Should a future rejoin referendum indicate desire to rejoin, those who
voted against would not simply go "OK" and leave it be. They would
continue to argue we should not rejoin. And ask for another referendum
because, well, because their view is the opposite.

I am also trying to see ANY future UK government ever holding another
referendum. I suspect they would impose a requirement for more than a
thin majority to carry the result into action.

I know full well it wouldn't really work, but I have imagined holding
such a referendum *every* year. But waiting for perhaps three consecutive
"change of state" results before acting. And even then, properly
preparing, taking whatever time is required.

The EUSSR wil be gone in a few years.
Especially if we leave

Bet it isnt gone in a few years. Because it does work pretty
well for the dregs of europe.

On 06/04/2019 23:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:24, harry wrote:
https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/


Is this a list of the don't leave MPs and staff that have received
threats from brexiteers?

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want to stay.

There seems a whole lot of abuse from them.

Dennis is selcetively blind. Farage and JRM have both been threatened



--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 03:22:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/04/2019 23:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:24, harry wrote:
https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/


Is this a list of the don't leave MPs and staff that have received
threats from brexiteers?

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want to stay.

There seems a whole lot of abuse from them.

Dennis is selcetively blind. Farage and JRM have both been threatened

Yes, but that's because they are ****s.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 07/04/2019 09:19, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 03:22:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/04/2019 23:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:24, harry wrote:
https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/


Is this a list of the don't leave MPs and staff that have received
threats from brexiteers?

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want to stay.

There seems a whole lot of abuse from them.

Dennis is selcetively blind. Farage and JRM have both been threatened

Yes, but that's because they are ****s.

Remainers? not just ****s,really stupid ****s.,



--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On Sun, 7 Apr 2019 09:27:11 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

The EUSSR wil be gone in a few years.
Especially if we leave

Bet it isnt gone in a few years.

Simply auto-contradicting again, eh, you pathological auto-contradicting
senile asshole?

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On 06/04/2019 23:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:24, harry wrote:
https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/


Is this a list of the don't leave MPs and staff that have received
threats from brexiteers?

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want to stay.

There seems a whole lot of abuse from them.

Threats and abuse are not the same, also there is far more abuse from
brexiteers.

The entire brexiteer campaign is based on rubbishing anyone that
disagrees with their lies.

They have no answer to any questions so they immediately resort to abuse.

On 07/04/2019 03:22, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 06/04/2019 23:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:24, harry wrote:
https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/


Is this a list of the don't leave MPs and staff that have received
threats from brexiteers?

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want to stay.

There seems a whole lot of abuse from them.

Dennis is selcetively blind. Farage and JRM have both been threatened




Evidence?

On 07/04/2019 10:20, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Bob Eager
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 03:22:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/04/2019 23:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:24, harry wrote:
https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/


Is this a list of the don't leave MPs and staff that have received
threats from brexiteers?

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want to stay.

There seems a whole lot of abuse from them.

Dennis is selcetively blind. Farage and JRM have both been threatened

Yes, but that's because they are ****s.

Oh I *see*. That makes it OK, does it?


MPs have been selectively threatened because of the way they voted not
because of their racist views.

On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 09:58:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 07/04/2019 09:19, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 03:22:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/04/2019 23:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:24, harry wrote:
https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/


Is this a list of the don't leave MPs and staff that have received
threats from brexiteers?

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want to stay.

There seems a whole lot of abuse from them.

Dennis is selcetively blind. Farage and JRM have both been threatened

Yes, but that's because they are ****s.

Remainers? not just ****s,really stupid ****s.,

A poor riposte.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 09:20:16 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , Bob Eager
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 03:22:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/04/2019 23:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:24, harry wrote:
https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/


Is this a list of the don't leave MPs and staff that have received
threats from brexiteers?

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want to stay.

There seems a whole lot of abuse from them.

Dennis is selcetively blind. Farage and JRM have both been threatened

Yes, but that's because they are ****s.

Oh I *see*. That makes it OK, does it?

No, it was just to annoy TNP!

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sun, 7 Apr 2019 10:22:15 +0100, "dennis@home"
wrote:
snip

The entire brexiteer campaign is based on rubbishing anyone that
disagrees with their lies.

They have no answer to any questions so they immediately resort to abuse.

The reason is because (as you say), they can't deal with someone
disagreeing with them (might be something to with brain lateralisation
or something g) and because, like a trapped animal (albeit trapped
by their own doing) they don't have any real / logical / truthful /
practical answers so lash out.

*If* there were some real / tangible / factual answers re why 'most
people' *would* be better off outside the EU (so none of this
Sovereignty bollox) then it would be a done deal by now.

Who wouldn't want to be better off (for all interpretations of said)?

We would happily let the fanatic crusaders have the Sovereignty
bollox, *IF* it came with real benefits to most people but there is
not a shred of evidence that it would, or certainly not enough to
outweigh all the benefits we would lose because we weren't part of the
EU.

The Brexiteers are like the directors of a big organisation who need
to cut costs so after a £1000 lunch bill, decide to sack Nelly the tea
lady, saving £15k/pa but costing much more than that in reduced worker
morale and worker time wasted away from their desks going to the
kitchen / vending machines.

They didn't think it through ...

Cheers, T i m

On 07/04/2019 14:52, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , "dennis@home" wrote:

On 07/04/2019 10:20, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Bob Eager
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 03:22:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 06/04/2019 23:48, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 03/04/2019 18:24, harry wrote:
https://leave.eu/is-your-mp-on-our-target-list/

Is this a list of the don't leave MPs and staff that have received
threats from brexiteers?

There don't appear to be any threats to leave MPs from people that
want to stay.

There seems a whole lot of abuse from them.

Dennis is selcetively blind. Farage and JRM have both been threatened

Yes, but that's because they are ****s.

Oh I *see*. That makes it OK, does it?

MPs have been selectively threatened because of the way they voted not
because of their racist views.

Oh I *see*. That makes it OK, does it?


Ones racism the other is the sort of democracy brexiteers want.
Do you not see a difference?