Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so Im keen to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits arent actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and Id like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that wont break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 03/02/2019 09:58, Tim+ wrote:

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so Im keen to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits arent actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and Id like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that wont break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

Tim

The problem today is that by and large there is not much you can build.

Its all 'put some chips on a PCB and thats it'

Back in the day I built radios and tuners and designed amps.

I have just finished todays equivalent: A raspberry Pi Zero W and some
C and PHP code to allow me to listen to (internet) radio stations and
play my (ripped to server) CD collection.

Using a smart phone as remote control !!

Just as challenging BUT no soldering involved other than making up new
audio leads as the old plugs didnt fit...

I believe there are some HiFi amp and preamp kits out there.

Those might be worth a go. Its about the only place discrete transistors
still have the edge.


--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

On 03/02/2019 09:58, Tim+ wrote:

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so Im keen to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits arent actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and Id like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that wont break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

I'd suggest getting an electronic projects book on a topic that
interests you, either from the library - if you've still got one of
those round your way - or a second-hand bookshop - if you've still got
any of them. Otherwise try abebooks.com.

Then buy a miscellany of cheap components from somewhere like
bitsbox.co.uk and play!

If you want something you can pick up and start right away, Haynes, the
workshop manual people, do a Retro Radio kit which can be got for around
£15 - sometimes a little less, sometimes a lot more. Before you build
the final FM radio, the instructions take you through building different
modules on the supplied breadboard so you find out for yourself how the
different stages work.

Nick

Yes when I was too young to be allowed access to a soldering iron. there was
a system called radionics which used basically perspex pegboards with
components fastened on bases that screwed in and connected with brass holed
strips. This was extremely good for learning stuff, add a multimeter and a
signal generator and you are more or less set. Even the old cheapo 741 op
amps when I started to solder could be used as audio amps as long as noise
was not the issue as they had zillions of transistors!
Hall effect chips always fascinated me as well. to think you could get an
electronic solid state switch that could detect a magnet seemed like magic
at the time. Now we have phones with accelerometers and goodness knows what
in them.
Brian

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"Nick Odell" wrote in message
...
On 03/02/2019 09:58, Tim+ wrote:

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a
simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so I'm keen
to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits aren't actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and I'd like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won't break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

I'd suggest getting an electronic projects book on a topic that interests
you, either from the library - if you've still got one of those round your
way - or a second-hand bookshop - if you've still got any of them.
Otherwise try abebooks.com.

Then buy a miscellany of cheap components from somewhere like
bitsbox.co.uk and play!

If you want something you can pick up and start right away, Haynes, the
workshop manual people, do a Retro Radio kit which can be got for around
£15 - sometimes a little less, sometimes a lot more. Before you build the
final FM radio, the instructions take you through building different
modules on the supplied breadboard so you find out for yourself how the
different stages work.

Nick

On 3 Feb 2019 09:58:07 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

snip

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won’t break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.


Not advanced and not particularly educational but something we
typically used every day since our daughter assembled it when she was
a kid ... and she's 28 now! ;-)

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ycgvtof2

It's a simple led countdown timer so lots of LED's to solder in the
right way round (and not damaging them) and is controlled by just one
button. Unfortunately, it worked the first time so we couldn't do any
faultfinding.

Press multiple times to increment the led's up in time (1-10,15,20,25
mins etc) and then once run-down, it starts to beep with increasing
volume / tone once triggered (it ramps up in stages). I can hear it on
the first level in the kitchen when I'm watching TV in the lounge a
room away (but noting stopping you taking it with you etc). When I'm
cooking round my Mums I miss it to the point that I might get daughter
to oversee her niece building one (or two) more. ;-)

Press the button again to cancel the alarm or leave it and it will
eventually cancel itself (probably after 30 seconds). Press and hold
to cancel the time set (of up make a mistake etc).

The 3 AAA's seem to last for ever and my only criticism is that some
of the numbers aren't that easy to see (with my eyes anyway). It could
probably be enhanced with some paint in the moldings.

I have always enjoyed building / assembling things and the cherry on
the cake is when you then carry on using it (and even relying on it)
every day. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Yes my dark sensor for the porch light lasted nearly 20 years before it
eventually wore out its relay and all the capacitors needed to be changed.
Too much work so bought one ready built but to me its not as adjustable.
Brian

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"T i m" wrote in message
...
On 3 Feb 2019 09:58:07 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

snip

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won't break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.


Not advanced and not particularly educational but something we
typically used every day since our daughter assembled it when she was
a kid ... and she's 28 now! ;-)

https://preview.tinyurl.com/ycgvtof2

It's a simple led countdown timer so lots of LED's to solder in the
right way round (and not damaging them) and is controlled by just one
button. Unfortunately, it worked the first time so we couldn't do any
faultfinding.

Press multiple times to increment the led's up in time (1-10,15,20,25
mins etc) and then once run-down, it starts to beep with increasing
volume / tone once triggered (it ramps up in stages). I can hear it on
the first level in the kitchen when I'm watching TV in the lounge a
room away (but noting stopping you taking it with you etc). When I'm
cooking round my Mums I miss it to the point that I might get daughter
to oversee her niece building one (or two) more. ;-)

Press the button again to cancel the alarm or leave it and it will
eventually cancel itself (probably after 30 seconds). Press and hold
to cancel the time set (of up make a mistake etc).

The 3 AAA's seem to last for ever and my only criticism is that some
of the numbers aren't that easy to see (with my eyes anyway). It could
probably be enhanced with some paint in the moldings.

I have always enjoyed building / assembling things and the cherry on
the cake is when you then carry on using it (and even relying on it)
every day. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sunday, 3 February 2019 09:58:11 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that wont break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

The "Science Fair" projects sold by Tandy in the 80s may be simple compared to these days of digital this, microprocessor that, and IoT't'other, but they came with manuals that had a full circuit description. You won't get a digital clock, but you'll get an AM radio, simple intercom and maybe a siren oscillator!

And if you want to solder one up permanently the components will be cheaper than chips. They only had a small number of preferred value components (this one had 10 resistors) so you can buy 10 x 50-packs from cpc and have all the resistors you need to make 50 projects with no waste. Transistors may need an equivalent.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCIENCE-F...T/333033499767

Essential you get one with a manual, though.

Owain

Tandy are still around, just not on the high street any more.
I don't know if they are still into kits though.
I did also build many moons back a kit for a stereo decoder for fm, that
you could fit to almost any portable tuner by simply removing one capacitor.
It was actually very good. A swine to align since it used aphase locked
loop but fun nonetheless.
Brian

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wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 3 February 2019 09:58:11 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won't break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

The "Science Fair" projects sold by Tandy in the 80s may be simple compared
to these days of digital this, microprocessor that, and IoT't'other, but
they came with manuals that had a full circuit description. You won't get a
digital clock, but you'll get an AM radio, simple intercom and maybe a siren
oscillator!

And if you want to solder one up permanently the components will be cheaper
than chips. They only had a small number of preferred value components (this
one had 10 resistors) so you can buy 10 x 50-packs from cpc and have all the
resistors you need to make 50 projects with no waste. Transistors may need
an equivalent.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCIENCE-F...T/333033499767

Essential you get one with a manual, though.

Owain

If it's kits you want then google Velleman quite a range with plenty of soldering. Maplin used to stock them but I think you can order directly off their website. Some of the component suppliers who specialise in the education market like Rapid Electronics stock them. However, the kits rarely educate you in electronics and you will have to resort to book learning if you want to gain any understanding. There are a few online sites which will get you started as well as online libraries of circuits.

If you want a good book with practical exercises then I can recommend Michael W Brimicombe, Introducing Electronic Systems ISBN 0-17-448068 but the most useful is the accompanying Introducing Electronic Sytems Practicals which is a ring binder of worksheets that accompany the book ISBN 0-17-448161-6.. Both these were published in 1987 and are probably out of print but if you can find them second hand I think you will find them . useful getting started. If you can find someone who has the worksheets they are easy to photocopy as they are all single sided sheets, try the DT dept. of some of your local schools. Failing that contact Nelson who were the publisher.

As Brain has said many of the kits now contain a PIC or other custom chip that does most of the grunt. If you want to get into Microcontrollers can I recommend the PICAXE system as a quick and easy way to get into them and how to program them, software and manuals are all FREE (I always like the sound of that word) and a helpful forum go to www.picaxe.co.uk.

Good luck
Richard

Sorry missed a number off the first ISBN should be 0-17-448086-7

Richard

On Sun, 03 Feb 2019 04:19:27 -0800, Tricky Dicky wrote:

If it's kits you want then google Velleman quite a range with plenty of
soldering. Maplin used to stock them but I think you can order directly
off their website. Some of the component suppliers who specialise in the
education market like Rapid Electronics stock them.

CPC stock quite a bit too.

As Brain has said many of the kits now contain a PIC or other custom
chip that does most of the grunt. If you want to get into
Microcontrollers can I recommend the PICAXE system as a quick and easy
way to get into them and how to program them, software and manuals are
all FREE (I always like the sound of that word) and a helpful forum go
to www.picaxe.co.uk.

I was going to suggest PICAXE. Great fun and easy to get started.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 2/3/2019 8:21 AM, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 03 Feb 2019 04:19:27 -0800, Tricky Dicky wrote:

If it's kits you want then google Velleman quite a range with plenty of
soldering. Maplin used to stock them but I think you can order directly
off their website. Some of the component suppliers who specialise in the
education market like Rapid Electronics stock them.

CPC stock quite a bit too.

As Brain has said many of the kits now contain a PIC or other custom
chip that does most of the grunt. If you want to get into
Microcontrollers can I recommend the PICAXE system as a quick and easy
way to get into them and how to program them, software and manuals are
all FREE (I always like the sound of that word) and a helpful forum go
to www.picaxe.co.uk.

I was going to suggest PICAXE. Great fun and easy to get started.

I really miss HeathKits.

Brian Gaff submitted this idea :
I did also build many moons back a kit for a stereo decoder for fm, that
you could fit to almost any portable tuner by simply removing one capacitor.
It was actually very good. A swine to align since it used aphase locked loop
but fun nonetheless.

I thought that was one of Sinclair's (of Cambridge) kits?

In article ,
says...

Brian Gaff submitted this idea :
I did also build many moons back a kit for a stereo decoder for fm, that
you could fit to almost any portable tuner by simply removing one capacitor.
It was actually very good. A swine to align since it used aphase locked loop
but fun nonetheless.

I thought that was one of Sinclair's (of Cambridge) kits?

I haven't looked at this site for a few years now but I'm
pleased to see that it is still alive and kicking:

http://www.sm0vpo.com/

The American Radio History site is a goldmine that contains
thousands of magazines with a lot of constructional projects
in them including PW, PE, PT, RC & WW from the UK as well as
Elektor and the Maplin publications already mentioned.

https://www.americanradiohistory.com/

Just follow the links at the top.

Bookshelf & International/United Kingdom will take you to all
those I mentioned above.

--

Terry

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Terry Casey expressed precisely :
The American Radio History site is a goldmine that contains
thousands of magazines with a lot of constructional projects
in them including PW, PE, PT, RC & WW from the UK as well as
Elektor and the Maplin publications already mentioned.

Maybe you will find some of my submissions in there..

In article
,
Tim+ wrote:
Of course these kits aren‘t actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and I‘d like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

Think you do that mostly by reading.

Maplin did a pretty good book called Electronic Circuits - written before
everything was done on a chip. But does cover building block chips like op
amps. No idea what is around today - likely more about how to do it with
your phone. ;-)

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Old book shops. Look for bibani paperbacks. Even Clive Sinclair wrote some
of those. Difficulty now is finding the bits still made.

Constant volume amplifier was my favourite!
Brian

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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Tim+ wrote:
Of course these kits aren't actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and I'd like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

Think you do that mostly by reading.

Maplin did a pretty good book called Electronic Circuits - written before
everything was done on a chip. But does cover building block chips like op
amps. No idea what is around today - likely more about how to do it with
your phone. ;-)

--
*Caution: I drive like you do.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Well sadly one thing I did notice before I lost too much sight was that
these kits were getting less and less technical as the chips concerned did
most of the grunt work and nobody seemed to worry quite how they did so!
I remember putting together the zX81 and that nearly gave me repetitive
strain injury due to the number of diodes and resistors which had all the
same values and alignments!

Brian

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"Tim+" wrote in message
...

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a
simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so I'm keen
to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits aren't actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and I'd like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won't break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Brian Gaff wrote

Well sadly one thing I did notice before I lost too much sight was that
these kits were getting less and less technical as the chips concerned did
most of the grunt work and nobody seemed to worry quite how they did so!

Not true anymore with arduinos and pis.

I remember putting together the zX81 and that nearly gave me repetitive
strain injury due to the number of diodes and resistors which had all the
same values and alignments!

"Tim+" wrote in message
...

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a
simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so I'm keen
to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits aren't actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and I'd like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won't break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 03/02/2019 11:20, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well sadly one thing I did notice before I lost too much sight was that
these kits were getting less and less technical as the chips concerned did
most of the grunt work and nobody seemed to worry quite how they did so!
I remember putting together the zX81 and that nearly gave me repetitive
strain injury due to the number of diodes and resistors which had all the
same values and alignments!

Brian


Did you keep the 16K dynamic ram board cool with a carton of milk ?

On 03/02/2019 09:58, Tim+ wrote:

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so Im keen to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits arent actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and Id like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that wont break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

Tim


It depends what pleases you.

For actual understanding, as opposed to soldering practice, I would go
with a Software PCB Designer. There are free ones. I've not used one for
a decade or more so I'm not sure which ones are best now, but they used
to be really cool and I can't imagine they have got worse.

Design a circuit, put it together virtually, virtually measure values at
points on the circuit with sophisticated virtual tools, see what happens
when you switch it on.

Obviously if you really like the physical aspect this is not for you,
but it worked for me.

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 11:57:55 +0000, Paul Welsh
wrote:

On 03/02/2019 09:58, Tim+ wrote:

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so I’m keen to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits aren’t actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and I’d like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won’t break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

Tim


It depends what pleases you.

For actual understanding, as opposed to soldering practice, I would go
with a Software PCB Designer. There are free ones. I've not used one for
a decade or more so I'm not sure which ones are best now, but they used
to be really cool and I can't imagine they have got worse.

Design a circuit, put it together virtually, virtually measure values at
points on the circuit with sophisticated virtual tools, see what happens
when you switch it on.

Obviously if you really like the physical aspect this is not for you,
but it worked for me.

EWB or Electronic Workbench.

It was pretty good, I still have it sitting on one of my HDD's.

I seem to recollect that one of the upgrades they did was pretty badly
flawed though, so we never really used it much after that.

http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/202311

It appears to have been bought out by National Semiconductor, the link
to a "free" trial is above.

I have not tried this version so good luck!

AB

On 3 Feb 2019 09:58:07 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won t
break the bank?

You could look at "Snap Circuits". Components mounted on plastic
strips with press studs on the end so they snap together onto a base
board. Comes with small projects you can build or as you have the
bits can easyly play and see what does what or not.

Trouble is a decent set probably breaks the bank.

Failing that get decent sized "bread board", set of prefered value
resistors, mixed bags of capacitors, transistors/semiconductors and
LED/displays a play.

The hard part will be deciding what you want to build/play with.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 03 Feb 2019 12:08:24 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On 3 Feb 2019 09:58:07 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won t
break the bank?

You could look at "Snap Circuits". Components mounted on plastic
strips with press studs on the end so they snap together onto a base
board. Comes with small projects you can build or as you have the
bits can easyly play and see what does what or not.

Trouble is a decent set probably breaks the bank.

Failing that get decent sized "bread board", set of prefered value
resistors, mixed bags of capacitors, transistors/semiconductors and
LED/displays a play.

The hard part will be deciding what you want to build/play with.

Summed up neatly!

Like anything else, the approach must be to achieve a definite goal.
Software is the same, it's a dammned difficult thing to become
proficient in writing code or a bit of ladder logic without a
functioning goal at the end.

A good starting point for electronics used to be a signal injector.
The two transistor multivibrator got a wee bit technical and too high
a precision in components could end up with a none working device, but
it could be adapted to almost any purpose. Radio signal tracing, fish
bite alarm, doorbell/ buzzer, light flasher and could give an insight
into the paths signals actually take.

With the addition of a simple class "A" amplifier a lot could be done
with the harmonics. VHF might need a little thinking about, but a MW
wireless acompaniment to the neighbours Sunday morning car wash could
be screwed nicely with a multivibrator followed by a class A and a
metre or two of wire for an aerial.

AB

On 03/02/19 09:58, Tim+ wrote:

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so Im keen to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits arent actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and Id like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that wont break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

You might want to have a look at Jaycar (in Australia). See
https://www.jaycar.com.au/kits-science-learning/electronics-kits/c/4B?sort=name-asc&q=%3Apopularity-desc#

Or, for something perhaps a little simpler, with no soldering required:
https://www.jaycar.com.au/698-in-1-snap-on-electronic-project-kit/p/KJ8985

A full list of the projects available with that kit and how they are put
together is in the pdf download (22.4Mb!) he
https://www.jaycar.com.au/medias/sys_master/images/9192794685470/KJ8985-manualMain.pdf

--

Jeff

On 03/02/2019 09:58, Tim+ wrote:

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so Im keen to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits arent actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and Id like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that wont break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

I would say look out for a collection of old electronics mags...
something like the Maplin mag used to publish loads of projects for
which they supplied kits, but crucially also published the PCB layouts
etc, so even with the demise of Maplin they should sill be buildable.

Failing that get a pile of components, and some breadboards, and small
PSU, and some books - just have a mess about getting circuits working on
the breadboard.


--
Cheers,

John.

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| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 14:38:45 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 03/02/2019 09:58, Tim+ wrote:

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so I’m keen to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits aren’t actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and I’d like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won’t break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

I would say look out for a collection of old electronics mags...
something like the Maplin mag used to publish loads of projects for
which they supplied kits, but crucially also published the PCB layouts
etc, so even with the demise of Maplin they should sill be buildable.

Are you for real?

Someone getting into electronics, PCB kits?

I really do get sick of people that know damn all trying to give
advice on this NG.

PCB manufacture is a subject in itself, for amateur use it is only
employed after the CCT has been built and tested, even then it is
pointless, as the "breadboarding" on Veroboard or similar will be
perfectly functional and can be as neat as a PCB.

Supplied kits are able to use a PCB, simply because the dimensions of
the components are known, they have been bought in bulk.

There are hundreds or even thousands of these circuits built, so a PCB
is a cost effective approach. Buying parts from other suppliers will
invariably lead to holes and spaces that dont accommodate the wires or
components.

On a final note, if you have a female in the house, trays of ferric
are about as popular as a beer fuelled rugby reunion.

AB

Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 14:38:45 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 03/02/2019 09:58, Tim+ wrote:

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so I'm keen to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits aren't actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and I'd like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won't break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

I would say look out for a collection of old electronics mags...
something like the Maplin mag used to publish loads of projects for
which they supplied kits, but crucially also published the PCB layouts
etc, so even with the demise of Maplin they should sill be buildable.

Are you for real?

Someone getting into electronics, PCB kits?

I really do get sick of people that know damn all trying to give
advice on this NG.

PCB manufacture is a subject in itself, for amateur use it is only
employed after the CCT has been built and tested, even then it is
pointless, as the "breadboarding" on Veroboard or similar will be
perfectly functional and can be as neat as a PCB.

Supplied kits are able to use a PCB, simply because the dimensions of
the components are known, they have been bought in bulk.

There are hundreds or even thousands of these circuits built, so a PCB
is a cost effective approach. Buying parts from other suppliers will
invariably lead to holes and spaces that dont accommodate the wires or
components.

On a final note, if you have a female in the house, trays of ferric
are about as popular as a beer fuelled rugby reunion.

AB

I agree. If you send the PCB files to China you can have much better
PCB than you could make yourself back within a few weeks for not very
much money.


--

Roger Hayter

On Sunday, February 3, 2019 at 3:38:55 PM UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 14:38:45 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 03/02/2019 09:58, Tim+ wrote:

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so I'm keen to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits aren't actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and I'd like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won't break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

I would say look out for a collection of old electronics mags...
something like the Maplin mag used to publish loads of projects for
which they supplied kits, but crucially also published the PCB layouts
etc, so even with the demise of Maplin they should sill be buildable.

Are you for real?

Someone getting into electronics, PCB kits?

I really do get sick of people that know damn all trying to give
advice on this NG.

PCB manufacture is a subject in itself, for amateur use it is only
employed after the CCT has been built and tested, even then it is
pointless, as the "breadboarding" on Veroboard or similar will be
perfectly functional and can be as neat as a PCB.

Supplied kits are able to use a PCB, simply because the dimensions of
the components are known, they have been bought in bulk.

There are hundreds or even thousands of these circuits built, so a PCB
is a cost effective approach. Buying parts from other suppliers will
invariably lead to holes and spaces that dont accommodate the wires or
components.

On a final note, if you have a female in the house, trays of ferric
are about as popular as a beer fuelled rugby reunion.

AB

I agree. If you send the PCB files to China you can have much better
PCB than you could make yourself back within a few weeks for not very
much money.


--

Roger Hayter

plenty kits here, for not much money https://www.banggood.com/search/kits.html

On 03/02/2019 15:31, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 14:38:45 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 03/02/2019 09:58, Tim+ wrote:

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so Im keen to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits arent actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and Id like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that wont break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

I would say look out for a collection of old electronics mags...
something like the Maplin mag used to publish loads of projects for
which they supplied kits, but crucially also published the PCB layouts
etc, so even with the demise of Maplin they should sill be buildable.

Are you for real?

last time I looked yup...

Someone getting into electronics, PCB kits?

Many of the old Maplin kits had full schematic, and a good description
of the operation of the circuit. So there was plenty of opportunity to
learn a bit as you went along.

I really do get sick of people that know damn all trying to give
advice on this NG.

And yet you still do it?

PCB manufacture is a subject in itself, for amateur use it is only
employed after the CCT has been built and tested, even then it is
pointless, as the "breadboarding" on Veroboard or similar will be
perfectly functional and can be as neat as a PCB.

Sure, I was not suggesting it was not. However if you have an
electronics mag that has a project that includes a custom PCB layout,
that does not stop you building the project. You either relay it on
veroboard etc, or make (or have made) the PCB.

DIY PCB manufacturing of the type of thing you will find in that era of
mag is easy. Typically single layer. Get a decent copy of the layout
onto a transparency, UV expose a board with a photo resist coating and
away you go.

However for many projects you don't need a custom PCB anyway.

Supplied kits are able to use a PCB, simply because the dimensions of
the components are known, they have been bought in bulk.

There are hundreds or even thousands of these circuits built, so a PCB
is a cost effective approach. Buying parts from other suppliers will
invariably lead to holes and spaces that dont accommodate the wires or
components.

On a final note, if you have a female in the house, trays of ferric
are about as popular as a beer fuelled rugby reunion.

Yeah well the female in this house is a engineering graduate who still
likes to remind me she scored higher than me on digital circuit design!

Actually a decent ziploc bag is not a bad way of doing etching. Keeps it
mostly self contained.

If you don't fancy doing your own boards (and for anything modern with
plated through vias or more than two layers there is not much point),
then there are plenty of places that will make boards relatively cheaply
if you send them a layout.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article
,
says...

DIY PCB manufacturing of the type of thing you will find in that era of
mag is easy. Typically single layer. Get a decent copy of the layout
onto a transparency, UV expose a board with a photo resist coating and
away you go.


OK if you've got the UV unit.

I used to do mine completely manually. If a full size layout
wasn't available, draw it out on 0.1" squared graph paper them
temporarilly wrap it round the board and tape on the non-foil
side.

Go round with a sharp scriber to transfer the hole positions
to the board, then very carefully draw the tracks on the foil
using nail varnish - something dark to show up well on the
polished copper.

Etch then remove the varnish with acetone.

Time consuming, of course, but there was always a very
satisfied feeling when you could hold the finished article in
your hand!

Usually a much more compacr result that possible with other
construction methods, particularly if the inter-strip
capacitance of Veroboard ruled out that method for the
particular application.

--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On Monday, 4 February 2019 11:46:12 UTC, Terry Casey wrote:
In article
,
says...

DIY PCB manufacturing of the type of thing you will find in that era of
mag is easy. Typically single layer. Get a decent copy of the layout
onto a transparency, UV expose a board with a photo resist coating and
away you go.


OK if you've got the UV unit.

There can't be many folk here that don't have access to the sky


NT

Terry Casey explained :
Usually a much more compacr result that possible with other
construction methods, particularly if the inter-strip
capacitance of Veroboard ruled out that method for the
particular application.

For the more complex stuff, I used a system rather like a wire wrap
system. It used a fine enamelled wire from a plastic pen, and plastic
combs to control the wire on the board. You simply wrapped around a IC
pin, then hooked onto the comb, to you next pin and so on, then you
soldered. It allowed some fairly complex stuff to be built, providing
cross-talk or capacitance between wires wouldn't a problem. It used the
Veroboard with tiny copy patches at the holes, or Veroboard prototyping
boards. You could also make connections to tiny pins which were a tight
fit to the Veroboard holes. It was very easy to make up memory boards
on Euro size boards.

Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
Someone getting into electronics, PCB kits?

I really do get sick of people that know damn all trying to give
advice on this NG.

PCB manufacture is a subject in itself, for amateur use it is only
employed after the CCT has been built and tested, even then it is
pointless, as the "breadboarding" on Veroboard or similar will be
perfectly functional and can be as neat as a PCB.

If you a design, a PCB is $2 delivered from China:
https://jlcpcb.com/

The main issue with an old magazine is that you don't have gerbers to send
to the fab, you'd have to do some awkward scanning and image processing to
make them.

But if you have the files and can wait a month for the slow boat it's pretty
cheap and easy these days.

Theo

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp writes:
On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 14:38:45 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

On 03/02/2019 09:58, Tim+ wrote:

Having watched too many Big Clive videos I decided to have a go at a simple
digital clock kit from eBay.

The result was fairly decent and I enjoyed all the soldering so I’m keen to
have a go at a few more cheap kits for soldering practice.

Of course these kits aren’t actually teaching me anything (other than
soldering skills) and I’d like to progress to understanding a bit more
about the design and function of components/circuits.

So, any recommendations for basic and more advanced kits that won’t break
the bank? At the moment looking at a cheap Tesla coil kit on eBay.

I would say look out for a collection of old electronics mags...
something like the Maplin mag used to publish loads of projects for
which they supplied kits, but crucially also published the PCB layouts
etc, so even with the demise of Maplin they should sill be buildable.

I still notionally have all the electronics magazines I
bought (or my dad bought for me in many cases) since 1972.
Mostly Everyday Electronics, Practical Electronics,
ETI (Electronics Today International), Elektor, Electronics
and Music Maker (was a Maplin publication). Also a few
Practical Wireless if it had something of particular interest.

Elektor is still going, and I think a merger of Everyday
Electronics and Practical Electronics might still be going,
although I don't buy them anymore. Elektor sell PCBs for
their projects, and in some cases complete kits and/or carry
adverts for them from other people.

Are you for real?

Someone getting into electronics, PCB kits?

I really do get sick of people that know damn all trying to give
advice on this NG.

Wow

PCB manufacture is a subject in itself, for amateur use it is only
employed after the CCT has been built and tested, even then it is
pointless, as the "breadboarding" on Veroboard or similar will be
perfectly functional and can be as neat as a PCB.

That does make surface mount difficult, and some components nowadays
are only available surface mount, sadly. Having said that, I have
used them on veroboard, but you really need to be extremely good at
soldering for this to work.

Supplied kits are able to use a PCB, simply because the dimensions of
the components are known, they have been bought in bulk.

Nah - the PCB designs produced by the electronics magazines
were not that specific, and there's lots of flexibility in
discrete through-hole components. Boards can even have
footprints for multiple component choices where necessary.

There are hundreds or even thousands of these circuits built, so a PCB
is a cost effective approach. Buying parts from other suppliers will
invariably lead to holes and spaces that dont accommodate the wires or
components.

On a final note, if you have a female in the house, trays of ferric
are about as popular as a beer fuelled rugby reunion.

My board etching stuff is still in the garage with bottles of
unused and used ferric chloride which I used to buy from the
chemist (bet you can't do that anymore), but I haven't used them
20+ years.

Nowadays, I design my PCBs with KiCad and get them manufactured
from the gerber files, although I wouldn't have been able to afford
that as a teenager (even if it had been available at the time).

I do prototypes or one-offs usually on Tri-pad veroboard. This is
excellent for DIL chips and GPIO connectors, and also things that
don't fit this pattern. It used to be sold only by Maplin, made
for them by Vero. I now order it direct from Vero since Maplin
vanished. I was going to include the URL, but it's gone from their
website - I emailed Vero and that's a mistake they're fixing and
it's still stocked.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tuesday, 5 February 2019 14:20:25 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:



Elektor is still going,

I subscribe to it interesting sometimes .

https://www.elektor.com/



PCB manufacture is a subject in itself, for amateur use it is only
employed after the CCT has been built and tested, even then it is
pointless, as the "breadboarding" on Veroboard or similar will be
perfectly functional and can be as neat as a PCB.

That does make surface mount difficult, and some components nowadays
are only available surface mount, sadly.

yes I've noticed, you can get SOIC to DIP but they can be expensive sometimes far more than the chip itself. The real problems comes with the square packages which are almost impossible to prototype or hand solder, especailly when the pads are under the chip.


Having said that, I have
used them on veroboard, but you really need to be extremely good at
soldering for this to work.

Supplied kits are able to use a PCB, simply because the dimensions of
the components are known, they have been bought in bulk.

Nah - the PCB designs produced by the electronics magazines
were not that specific, and there's lots of flexibility in
discrete through-hole components. Boards can even have
footprints for multiple component choices where necessary.

But if you buy a kit the parts are usually the correct size.



Nowadays, I design my PCBs with KiCad and get them manufactured
from the gerber files, although I wouldn't have been able to afford
that as a teenager (even if it had been available at the time).

Yes those cost even put us off at uni. it's only really worth doing if yuo want loads of same tyoe of boards.


I do prototypes or one-offs usually on Tri-pad veroboard.

What's tri-pad board ? unless it;s just board with 3 holes conencted together , then another £ ......

we've used matrix board where each hole is surrounted by copper ready to solder a few students use that, and then there's matrix board that has just holes more like plug booard no copper.



This is
excellent for DIL chips and GPIO connectors, and also things that
don't fit this pattern. It used to be sold only by Maplin, made
for them by Vero. I now order it direct from Vero since Maplin
vanished. I was going to include the URL, but it's gone from their
website - I emailed Vero and that's a mistake they're fixing and
it's still stocked.

Our PCBs are made using a CNC machine to route out the copper.
LPKF S103
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJr2aZRREmA

think it was about £10K then a comnpressor for another £3K.


I doubt it's an option for the hobbyist but it would be interesting to see if someone can design & make a system at a reasnable price, afterall it's similar to a 3D printer in the way it would function.

whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 February 2019 14:20:25 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

yes I've noticed, you can get SOIC to DIP but they can be expensive
sometimes far more than the chip itself. The real problems comes with the
square packages which are almost impossible to prototype or hand solder,
especailly when the pads are under the chip.

Not if you buy from our Chinese friends:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GREA...954112517.html
(and a million different variations on the same)

Square packages not a problem either:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-8-...774086808.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5PCS...516670532.html
(soldering with hot air and paste isn't too hard when you get used to it)

[PCBs]
Yes those cost even put us off at uni. it's only really worth doing if
yuo want loads of same tyoe of boards.

As I mentioned upthread, $2 for 10off 100x100mm 1.6mm thick, jlcpcb.com If
you pay the extra $20 for express shipping, they come in just over a week.
We have a batch system - once a week/fortnight/month, collect up all the
boards and send them as one order with express shipping.

(the $2 is a loss leader, when you start tweaking the parameters it gets a
bit more realistic but still insanely cheap - like $12 - for a stack of
boards)

You will have to have the argument with your accounts department about
paying by credit card, since the Chinese supplier is not going to give you a
credit account.

Our PCBs are made using a CNC machine to route out the copper.
LPKF S103
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJr2aZRREmA

think it was about £10K then a comnpressor for another £3K.

We have one of those (Bungard CCD). It's a pain to set up, hopeless at
doing anything fine pitch, double sided is annoying, and you don't get
soldermask which is critical for surface mount soldering. It's not really
got used for very much, especially now you can get very high quality
boards from China for so little.

Theo

"Tim+" wrote in message
...


Of course these kits arent actually teaching me anything

I started off with books from Babani press 50 circuits using
transistors -zener diodes- 741 - 555ic timers etc
in fact the burglar alarm on the workshop is still going and made in the 70s
from the books

-

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 17:19:27 -0000, "Mark" wrote:


"Tim+" wrote in message
...


Of course these kits arent actually teaching me anything

I started off with books from Babani press 50 circuits using
transistors -zener diodes- 741 - 555ic timers etc
in fact the burglar alarm on the workshop is still going and made in the 70s
from the books


On the same battery no doubt?

The current through anything made from Babani books must be quite low
:-)


I too relied on those, but some time later when I went into industrial
electronics, I found that manufacturers application notes were far
better and well subsidised too. They had all manner of circuits
developed around their components with a liberal sprinkling of test
data and maths also.

I often thought of writing a few articles for the electronics comics
based on my databooks.

https://archive.org/details/National...andbook1994OCR

Enjoy!

If you use NS databooks to make a circuit, I would reccomend a soak in
a strong saline solution first though :-)

AB

In article ,
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:
On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 17:19:27 -0000, "Mark" wrote:


"Tim+" wrote in message
...


Of course these kits arent actually teaching me anything

I started off with books from Babani press 50 circuits using
transistors -zener diodes- 741 - 555ic timers etc
in fact the burglar alarm on the workshop is still going and made in the 70s
from the books


On the same battery no doubt?

The current through anything made from Babani books must be quite low
:-)


I too relied on those, but some time later when I went into industrial
electronics, I found that manufacturers application notes were far
better and well subsidised too. They had all manner of circuits
developed around their components with a liberal sprinkling of test
data and maths also.

I often thought of writing a few articles for the electronics comics
based on my databooks.

https://archive.org/details/National...andbook1994OCR

Enjoy!

If you use NS databooks to make a circuit, I would reccomend a soak in
a strong saline solution first though :-)

AB



I've still got my copy of "Mullard - Transistors for the Experimenter"
(rather battered) and Mullard -Reference Manual of Transistor Circuits"
as well as some "Marston - 110 _____ circuits"

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle