Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very light
yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off bare earth
wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase cable for this
lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm above
the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low under the
picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange wiring - if
the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does not, of
course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal for about
40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single connector
block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman wrote:
Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very light
yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off bare earth
wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase cable for this
lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm above
the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low under the
picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange wiring - if
the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does not, of
course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal for about
40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single connector
block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.

You give up to easy.

On 24/01/2019 11:32, Jeff Layman wrote:
Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very light
yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off bare earth
wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase cable for this
lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm above
the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low under the
picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange wiring - if
the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does not, of
course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal for about
40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single connector
block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.


Does the earth wire have continuity? If so, and assuming you can extend
the cable (which I've never had to do), you seem to be almost there. I
don't see what a pro can do to sort out the muddle. He just has greater
confidence that it will work. After all, a pro probably did what's there.

If the existing cable does reach to the new light fitting position there is no point dicking around with what is there and replace that cable with T&E up to presumably a junction box in the loft and at least you know that is right. Myself I would do the whole lot including the switch for the peace of mind but then it depends on how much patching up you are prepared to do.

Richard

On 24/01/2019 11:32, Jeff Layman wrote:
Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very light
yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off bare earth
wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase cable for this
lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm above
the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low under the
picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange wiring - if
the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does not, of
course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal for about
40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single connector
block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.


It sounds like 6243Y ("2 way") cable; might there have been a second
switch in the past?
Extending is easy providing the joint, if buried, is either: soldered,
crimped, or made with the push-fit Wago/Ideal connectors and suitably
insulated. I would be more concerned about wiring outside the designated
zones so why not chase out vertically and replace the cable?

Some thoughts:
I suspect you'll find the earth wire if you dig above the switch.
Also, you may find that the point where the cable to the light starts
going off at an angle is where the light used to be.

On 24/01/19 11:58, GB wrote:
On 24/01/2019 11:32, Jeff Layman wrote:
Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very light
yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off bare earth
wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase cable for this
lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm above
the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low under the
picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange wiring - if
the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does not, of
course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal for about
40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single connector
block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.


Does the earth wire have continuity? If so, and assuming you can extend
the cable (which I've never had to do), you seem to be almost there. I
don't see what a pro can do to sort out the muddle. He just has greater
confidence that it will work. After all, a pro probably did what's there.

I haven't checked for continuity yet. Even if it is ok, not going
vertically up it is in the wrong place. I was hoping to get away with
very limited redecoration, but the plaster will have to be channelled
out to take the cable to where we want the fitting. I was hoping that a
decent electrician could do it more neatly than I could, or maybe even
drill or run conduit from the loft (there is good access) in which to
run the cable. Add to that I want a 2-gang wall switch to replace the
single one so that the wall lights and new ceiling light could be
controlled separately. A 2-gang Quinetic switch and two receivers would
also do the job, but might cost more.

Other than where it was required by law, I doubt this place has seen a
professional. One particularly "amusing" example was the poor tv
reception at one of the many sockets. Tracing the coax in the loft
revealed a join in it. Two lengths had been taped together (in the
manner of two fingers of one hand being taped together) for about 6 cm
with insulating tape. The centre wires had been twisted (and soldered!)
together, and the braids twisted together. The whole lot was covered in
more insulating tape, although the centre wires poked through the
insulation.

--

Jeff

On Thursday, 24 January 2019 13:24:20 UTC, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/01/19 11:58, GB wrote:
On 24/01/2019 11:32, Jeff Layman wrote:

Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very light
yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off bare earth
wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase cable for this
lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm above
the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low under the
picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange wiring - if
the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does not, of
course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal for about
40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single connector
block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.

if you diy you'll gain skill & confidence.

Does the earth wire have continuity? If so, and assuming you can extend
the cable (which I've never had to do), you seem to be almost there. I
don't see what a pro can do to sort out the muddle. He just has greater
confidence that it will work. After all, a pro probably did what's there.

I haven't checked for continuity yet. Even if it is ok, not going
vertically up it is in the wrong place. I was hoping to get away with
very limited redecoration, but the plaster will have to be channelled
out to take the cable to where we want the fitting. I was hoping that a
decent electrician could do it more neatly than I could, or maybe even
drill or run conduit from the loft (there is good access) in which to
run the cable.

it's really the filling afterwards that determines neatness.

Add to that I want a 2-gang wall switch to replace the
single one so that the wall lights and new ceiling light could be
controlled separately. A 2-gang Quinetic switch and two receivers would
also do the job, but might cost more.

In most cases that requires running new wire.

Other than where it was required by law, I doubt this place has seen a
professional. One particularly "amusing" example was the poor tv
reception at one of the many sockets. Tracing the coax in the loft
revealed a join in it. Two lengths had been taped together (in the
manner of two fingers of one hand being taped together) for about 6 cm
with insulating tape. The centre wires had been twisted (and soldered!)
together, and the braids twisted together. The whole lot was covered in
more insulating tape, although the centre wires poked through the
insulation.

sounds quite normal. It's not mains.


NT

On 24/01/19 13:14, wrote:
On 24/01/2019 11:32, Jeff Layman wrote:
Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very light
yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off bare earth
wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase cable for this
lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm above
the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low under the
picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange wiring - if
the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does not, of
course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal for about
40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single connector
block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.


It sounds like 6243Y ("2 way") cable; might there have been a second
switch in the past?

I doubt there would have been a second switch. There is a switch in the
hall for the hall light, but you can just about reach the lounge switch
from the hall switch! I guess I could go up in the loft and trace where
the lounge switch cable goes to see if there is anything obvious at the
other end of the cable. As to it being 2-way cable, the lounge switch
wiring could have been, but I am puzzled by there being white insulation
on one of the wires to the switch. I had a look through the DIY Wiki for
wiring colours, but white wasn't mentioned.

Extending is easy providing the joint, if buried, is either: soldered,
crimped, or made with the push-fit Wago/Ideal connectors and suitably
insulated. I would be more concerned about wiring outside the designated
zones so why not chase out vertically and replace the cable?

I was trying to get away with as little redecoration as possible, but if
i comes to it, and the current wiring is ok but just needs a few cm
extension vertically, your idea would make sense.

Some thoughts:
I suspect you'll find the earth wire if you dig above the switch.
Also, you may find that the point where the cable to the light starts
going off at an angle is where the light used to be.

The original lighting in this lounge /probably/ consisted only of a
celling light, long since removed. Just to reiterate, the 3 wall lights:
1) Has the cabling at a strange angle.
2) Is connected via a spur from a 2-amp socket.
3) Is not on the same circuit as the other two, and is not operated by
the wall switch.

All three are different styles and have different types of cable
connecting them to power, suggesting they were fitted at different times..

--

Jeff

On Thursday, 24 January 2019 13:51:59 UTC, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/01/19 13:14, wrote:
On 24/01/2019 11:32, Jeff Layman wrote:

Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very light
yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off bare earth
wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase cable for this
lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm above
the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low under the
picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange wiring - if
the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does not, of
course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal for about
40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single connector
block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.


It sounds like 6243Y ("2 way") cable; might there have been a second
switch in the past?

I doubt there would have been a second switch. There is a switch in the
hall for the hall light, but you can just about reach the lounge switch
from the hall switch! I guess I could go up in the loft and trace where
the lounge switch cable goes to see if there is anything obvious at the
other end of the cable. As to it being 2-way cable, the lounge switch
wiring could have been, but I am puzzled by there being white insulation
on one of the wires to the switch. I had a look through the DIY Wiki for
wiring colours, but white wasn't mentioned.

Extending is easy providing the joint, if buried, is either: soldered,
crimped, or made with the push-fit Wago/Ideal connectors and suitably
insulated. I would be more concerned about wiring outside the designated
zones so why not chase out vertically and replace the cable?

I was trying to get away with as little redecoration as possible, but if
i comes to it, and the current wiring is ok but just needs a few cm
extension vertically, your idea would make sense.

Some thoughts:
I suspect you'll find the earth wire if you dig above the switch.
Also, you may find that the point where the cable to the light starts
going off at an angle is where the light used to be.

The original lighting in this lounge /probably/ consisted only of a
celling light, long since removed. Just to reiterate, the 3 wall lights:
1) Has the cabling at a strange angle.
2) Is connected via a spur from a 2-amp socket.
3) Is not on the same circuit as the other two, and is not operated by
the wall switch.

All three are different styles and have different types of cable
connecting them to power, suggesting they were fitted at different times..

....or perhaps by the same bin raider. AFAIK white has never been a standard domestic functional insulator colour, except for unpolarised flexes. The US uses black & white.

A pro may want to do a full rewire, as the CU & other wiring are unlikely to be compliant.


NT

I'd have thought one could trace the wire through though, there has to be a
join somewhere.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I wish
I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very light
yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off bare earth
wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase cable for this
lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm above
the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low under the
picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange wiring - if the
cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does not, of course; it
goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal for about 40 cm, then
goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white, and
blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single connector
block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.

--

Jeff

On 24/01/19 14:55, wrote:
On Thursday, 24 January 2019 13:51:59 UTC, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/01/19 13:14, wrote:
On 24/01/2019 11:32, Jeff Layman wrote:

Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very light
yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off bare earth
wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase cable for this
lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm above
the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low under the
picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange wiring - if
the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does not, of
course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal for about
40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single connector
block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.


It sounds like 6243Y ("2 way") cable; might there have been a second
switch in the past?

I doubt there would have been a second switch. There is a switch in the
hall for the hall light, but you can just about reach the lounge switch
from the hall switch! I guess I could go up in the loft and trace where
the lounge switch cable goes to see if there is anything obvious at the
other end of the cable. As to it being 2-way cable, the lounge switch
wiring could have been, but I am puzzled by there being white insulation
on one of the wires to the switch. I had a look through the DIY Wiki for
wiring colours, but white wasn't mentioned.

Extending is easy providing the joint, if buried, is either: soldered,
crimped, or made with the push-fit Wago/Ideal connectors and suitably
insulated. I would be more concerned about wiring outside the designated
zones so why not chase out vertically and replace the cable?

I was trying to get away with as little redecoration as possible, but if
i comes to it, and the current wiring is ok but just needs a few cm
extension vertically, your idea would make sense.

Some thoughts:
I suspect you'll find the earth wire if you dig above the switch.
Also, you may find that the point where the cable to the light starts
going off at an angle is where the light used to be.

The original lighting in this lounge /probably/ consisted only of a
celling light, long since removed. Just to reiterate, the 3 wall lights:
1) Has the cabling at a strange angle.
2) Is connected via a spur from a 2-amp socket.
3) Is not on the same circuit as the other two, and is not operated by
the wall switch.

All three are different styles and have different types of cable
connecting them to power, suggesting they were fitted at different times..

...or perhaps by the same bin raider.

No doubt. The guy who lived here put a couple of solar heating panels on
the roof over 30 years ago, and plumbed them in with the control
circuitry to interface with the CH system. It was all disconnected many
years ago, but the panels, wiring, and some of the pipes remained. I
used to be concerned when I found odd lengths of ex-solar heating mains
cable under the loft insulation, but have yet to find any which is
connected at one end only...

AFAIK white has never been a standard domestic functional insulator
colour, except for unpolarised flexes. The US uses black & white.

That's what continues to puzzle me. Where did those cables with white
insulation come from?

A pro may want to do a full rewire, as the CU & other wiring are unlikely to be compliant.

The CU had to be replaced when we moved in to satisfy the insurance
company. The regs had changed and the RCD trip current was lower, but
the CU was obsolete and it was not possible to source replacement
plug-ins. The wiring tests were apparently OK, but the electrician noted
that the wiring was old (this place was built in 1965) and should be
checked again if any problems came to light.

On the original matter, I've been up in the loft and access to the wall
switch wiring and closely-placed (although unconnected to the switch)
wall light is not anywhere near as easy as I thought. The roof is only a
few tens of cm high there as the switch is on an outside wall, and the
roof ends at the gutter on that wall. I think I'll get someone in a bit
younger to do it. Is there any reason the strangely-coloured wiring
can't be left in place and connected to new wiring providing it meets
any wiring regs requirements, and is colour-marked correctly?

--

Jeff

On 24/01/2019 11:32, Jeff Layman wrote:
Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very light
yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off bare earth
wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase cable for this
lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm above
the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low under the
picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange wiring - if
the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does not, of
course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal for about
40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single connector
block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.


Red white and blue cores.

That is 1966 14th edition. Just as earths came into play on lighting
circuits and the white was replaced with yellow.

Best of luck with it fella.

--
Adam

On 24/01/2019 19:55, ARW wrote:
On 24/01/2019 11:32, Jeff Layman wrote:
Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very
light yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off
bare earth wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase
cable for this lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm
above the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low
under the picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange
wiring - if the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does
not, of course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal
for about 40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single
connector block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an
earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.


Red white and blue cores.

That is 1966 14th edition. Just as earths came into play on lighting
circuits and the white was replaced with yellow.

Best of luck with it fella.


Sorry should have said "pre 1996"

--
Adam

On 24/01/2019 13:24, Jeff Layman wrote:

Other than where it was required by law, I doubt this place has seen a
professional. One particularly "amusing" example was the poor tv
reception at one of the many sockets. Tracing the coax in the loft
revealed a join in it.Â* Two lengths had been taped together (in the
manner of two fingers of one hand being taped together) for about 6 cm
with insulating tape. The centre wires had been twisted (and soldered!)
together, and the braids twisted together. The whole lot was covered in
more insulating tape, although the centre wires poked through the
insulation.


https://www.donvalley.tv/rogues_gallery/018

Bill

On 24/01/19 19:58, ARW wrote:
On 24/01/2019 19:55, ARW wrote:
On 24/01/2019 11:32, Jeff Layman wrote:
Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very
light yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off
bare earth wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase
cable for this lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm
above the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low
under the picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange
wiring - if the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does
not, of course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal
for about 40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single
connector block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an
earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.


Red white and blue cores.

That is 1966 14th edition. Just as earths came into play on lighting
circuits and the white was replaced with yellow.

Best of luck with it fella.


Sorry should have said "pre 1996"

Thanks for that info, Adam. I looked in the DIY Wiki under Wiring Colour
Codes and Historic Mains Cabling, but there was nothing about cabling
with those colours. There are some links on the Wiki pages to old info
(such as to
http://www.iee.org.uk/publish/books/wireregs.html#wireregs), but they
lead to 404 or "Not found" webpages, unfortunately.

--

Jeff

On Thursday, 24 January 2019 22:11:54 UTC, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 24/01/19 19:58, ARW wrote:
On 24/01/2019 19:55, ARW wrote:
On 24/01/2019 11:32, Jeff Layman wrote:
Just getting round to replacing the third wall light fitting (see
"Screw/wallplug size" post a couple of days ago). I now have that "I
wish I'd never started" feeling...

The old metal-cased picture light came off easily enough, to reveal a
connection to red and blue wiring (it was not earthed)! The cable was
plastered in, but digging some of the plaster out revealed white PVC
cable. A bit more digging, and a cut-off third conductor with very
light yellow (maybe off-white?) insulation appeared. Then a cut-off
bare earth wire. So it looks like someone used some spare 3-phase
cable for this lighting circuit. Sigh.

To add to the fun, the new fitting needs to be placed about 20 cm
above the old one (I have no idea why the old one was placed so low
under the picture rail). Not a great problem - even with the strange
wiring - if the cable continued vertically into the loft. But it does
not, of course; it goes off at a a 30 degree angle to the horizontal
for about 40 cm, then goes vertically into the loft.

I just checked the wall switch. Grey PVC cable - but with red, white,
and blue wires. The blue was unused and terminated in a single
connector block. Red and white went to the switch. I couldn't see an
earth wire.

Time to bite the bullet and get a pro in, methinks.


Red white and blue cores.

That is 1966 14th edition. Just as earths came into play on lighting
circuits and the white was replaced with yellow.

Best of luck with it fella.


Sorry should have said "pre 1996"

Thanks for that info, Adam. I looked in the DIY Wiki under Wiring Colour
Codes and Historic Mains Cabling, but there was nothing about cabling
with those colours. There are some links on the Wiki pages to old info
(such as to
http://www.iee.org.uk/publish/books/wireregs.html#wireregs), but they
lead to 404 or "Not found" webpages, unfortunately.

there is now


NT

wrote:

It sounds like 6243Y ("2 way") cable; might there have been a second
switch in the past?

Sounds like a short-lived version of red/blue/white with no earth

https://www.flameport.com/electric_museum/old_cables_wiring/cables_twin_pvc.cs4

Jeff Layman pretended :
As to it being 2-way cable, the lounge switch wiring could have been, but I
am puzzled by there being white insulation on one of the wires to the switch.
I had a look through the DIY Wiki for wiring colours, but white wasn't
mentioned.

White outer T&E cables (instead of the usual grey outer) used to
indicate the work had been carried out by the local electricity
company's contracting department.

On 25/01/19 10:19, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote:

It sounds like 6243Y ("2 way") cable; might there have been a second
switch in the past?

Sounds like a short-lived version of red/blue/white with no earth

https://www.flameport.com/electric_museum/old_cables_wiring/cables_twin_pvc.cs4

Looks like it could have been.

The more I think about it, the more it looks like these were separate
pieces of old 2-way cable used as 1-way. The piece in the wall might
have been not so old as it had an earth wire; I haven't dug back far,
but the wire to the wall switch does not appear to have an earth wire.

--

Jeff