I see my shaver socket is marked 'Shavers only' and the new ones have
symbols for shaver and toothbrush. According to the manufacturer,
there has been a design change. From what I read, the older ones are
designed for intermittent use only (mains shavers not rechargeable
equipment). I think I'll replace mine for peace of mind.

However, I just wondered how serious an issue this is. I am sure most
people think an electric toothbrush (or indeed a rechargeable shaver)
can be used from a shaver point. Is there a safety implication or is
it just a question of buzzing noise and reduced lifetime?

On Monday, 21 January 2019 17:32:07 UTC, Scott wrote:
I see my shaver socket is marked 'Shavers only' and the new ones have
symbols for shaver and toothbrush. According to the manufacturer,
there has been a design change. From what I read, the older ones are
designed for intermittent use only (mains shavers not rechargeable
equipment). I think I'll replace mine for peace of mind.

However, I just wondered how serious an issue this is. I am sure most
people think an electric toothbrush (or indeed a rechargeable shaver)
can be used from a shaver point. Is there a safety implication or is
it just a question of buzzing noise and reduced lifetime?

Ones intended for bathrooms (ie most) have a transformer that isolates the shave from the mains. Some are 110V too.
The transformer is what limits the current it can take.

On 21/01/2019 19:11, harry wrote:
On Monday, 21 January 2019 17:32:07 UTC, Scott wrote:
I see my shaver socket is marked 'Shavers only' and the new ones have
symbols for shaver and toothbrush. According to the manufacturer,
there has been a design change. From what I read, the older ones are
designed for intermittent use only (mains shavers not rechargeable
equipment). I think I'll replace mine for peace of mind.

However, I just wondered how serious an issue this is. I am sure most
people think an electric toothbrush (or indeed a rechargeable shaver)
can be used from a shaver point. Is there a safety implication or is
it just a question of buzzing noise and reduced lifetime?

Ones intended for bathrooms (ie most) have a transformer that isolates the shave from the mains. Some are 110V too.
The transformer is what limits the current it can take.


But are they not all suitable for continuous use at UK mains voltage?

--
Michael Chare

On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 11:11:31 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 21 January 2019 17:32:07 UTC, Scott wrote:
I see my shaver socket is marked 'Shavers only' and the new ones have
symbols for shaver and toothbrush. According to the manufacturer,
there has been a design change. From what I read, the older ones are
designed for intermittent use only (mains shavers not rechargeable
equipment). I think I'll replace mine for peace of mind.

However, I just wondered how serious an issue this is. I am sure most
people think an electric toothbrush (or indeed a rechargeable shaver)
can be used from a shaver point. Is there a safety implication or is
it just a question of buzzing noise and reduced lifetime?

Ones intended for bathrooms (ie most) have a transformer that isolates the shave from the mains. Some are 110V too.
The transformer is what limits the current it can take.

I know that but I am asking if it is suitable for continuous use as
the suggestion it that it is not. I suspect a toothbrush draws far
less current than a shaver anyway.

On 21/01/2019 17:32, Scott wrote:
I see my shaver socket is marked 'Shavers only' and the new ones have
symbols for shaver and toothbrush. According to the manufacturer,
there has been a design change. From what I read, the older ones are
designed for intermittent use only (mains shavers not rechargeable
equipment). I think I'll replace mine for peace of mind.

However, I just wondered how serious an issue this is. I am sure most
people think an electric toothbrush (or indeed a rechargeable shaver)
can be used from a shaver point. Is there a safety implication or is
it just a question of buzzing noise and reduced lifetime?

This thread came up a while ago, and I worried about it for a little
while (I have a toothbrush and a water pick plugged into my "shaver"
socket, there is no sign of overheating).

I'd guess (since rechargeable shavers have been around for a long time
now) that modern sockets are designed for continuous use whatever they
are labelled. I think "shaver" is used here as a generic term for "legal
bathroom appliance".

No buzzing from mine, though whether this means SMS or a well designed
transformer I have no idea.

I've never had an issue with the old ones to be honest, but I do notice
there seem to be three different pin arrangements on shavers these days, all
seem to plug into the sockets.
I do not think the current on charge is going to be that much anyway, maybe
there were some only just good enough ones made, I do not know but the last
time I had the bathroom done, I had all electrics removed and charge up
stuff via a plug in adaptor elsewhere in any case.
Who would need to charge things up in the bathroom? Shavers particularly,
these days will not operate while on charge which I find really irritating
but this is the way the designers have gone, moving the charger into the
plug and only having a low voltage cable to the shaver.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"harry" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 21 January 2019 17:32:07 UTC, Scott wrote:
I see my shaver socket is marked 'Shavers only' and the new ones have
symbols for shaver and toothbrush. According to the manufacturer,
there has been a design change. From what I read, the older ones are
designed for intermittent use only (mains shavers not rechargeable
equipment). I think I'll replace mine for peace of mind.

However, I just wondered how serious an issue this is. I am sure most
people think an electric toothbrush (or indeed a rechargeable shaver)
can be used from a shaver point. Is there a safety implication or is
it just a question of buzzing noise and reduced lifetime?

Ones intended for bathrooms (ie most) have a transformer that isolates the
shave from the mains. Some are 110V too.
The transformer is what limits the current it can take.

Scott wrote:
I know that but I am asking if it is suitable for continuous use as
the suggestion it that it is not. I suspect a toothbrush draws far
less current than a shaver anyway.

In the interests of science I just measured it (Oral B toothbrush using USB
wireless charger):

Charger without toothbrush attached: 50mW
Charger with toothbrush: 720mW

I don't think we're going to blow any fuses.

Theo

newshound wrote:
I'd guess (since rechargeable shavers have been around for a long time
now) that modern sockets are designed for continuous use whatever they
are labelled. I think "shaver" is used here as a generic term for "legal
bathroom appliance".

I suspect by 'continuous use' means that the socket is rated at 1A/230V, but
the transformer is thermally sized for something less. Eventually it'll
cook. So if you were to draw that constantly, it would fail. However an
ancient shaver might draw 230W for 5 mins a day (or 230W on startup, if not
when running), and that's an acceptable duty cycle.

As the numbers I posted upthread show, toothbrushes and other rechargeable
bathroom equipment take insignificant power so I can't see why there would
be a problem running this continually.

I suppose another reason for 'non-continuous' would be the socket isn't
rated for the plug to be constantly inserted, but that's a pretty dumb
design.

Theo

On 22 Jan 2019 12:20:22 +0000 (GMT), Theo
wrote:

Scott wrote:
I know that but I am asking if it is suitable for continuous use as
the suggestion it that it is not. I suspect a toothbrush draws far
less current than a shaver anyway.

In the interests of science I just measured it (Oral B toothbrush using USB
wireless charger):

Charger without toothbrush attached: 50mW
Charger with toothbrush: 720mW

I don't think we're going to blow any fuses.

Ah but, when the toothbrush is fully charged does consumption fall to
50mW? Is not the issue that the current is then continuous when the
transformer is only for intermittent use? The manufacturers tell me
the design has changed though not giving any details.

In article ,
Theo wrote:
I suspect by 'continuous use' means that the socket is rated at 1A/230V,
but the transformer is thermally sized for something less. Eventually
it'll cook. So if you were to draw that constantly, it would fail.
However an ancient shaver might draw 230W for 5 mins a day (or 230W on
startup, if not when running), and that's an acceptable duty cycle.

It would be a very poor transformer indeed if it couldn't be run 24/7 at
well under its rated load. Assuming it doesn't cook.

--
*Husbands should come with instructions

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:32:55 UTC, Theo wrote:

I suspect by 'continuous use' means that the socket is rated at 1A/230V, but
the transformer is thermally sized for something less. Eventually it'll
cook. So if you were to draw that constantly, it would fail. However an
ancient shaver might draw 230W for 5 mins a day (or 230W on startup, if not
when running), and that's an acceptable duty cycle.

that may be true in fantasy land

As the numbers I posted upthread show, toothbrushes and other rechargeable
bathroom equipment take insignificant power so I can't see why there would
be a problem running this continually.

I suppose another reason for 'non-continuous' would be the socket isn't
rated for the plug to be constantly inserted, but that's a pretty dumb
design.

a dumb design is not the issue there

Scott wrote:
Ah but, when the toothbrush is fully charged does consumption fall to
50mW?

I didn't have a suitable fully charged toothbrush at the time of
measurement, but I assume the toothbrush shuts off eventually (the LED stops
flashing). I suspect some current is still taken just by inductive losses into
whatever metal there is.

(I had a play - placing a piece of metal the shape of a drinks bottle cap
over the plastic peg on the charger got the power up to about 500mW, so
there's no fancy communication to the charger. This charger is however a $4
Aliexpress version, since Oral B don't offer a USB charger)

Is not the issue that the current is then continuous when the
transformer is only for intermittent use? The manufacturers tell me
the design has changed though not giving any details.

All this in the level of leakage current as far as the transformer is
concerned, it'll neither notice nor care that you're taking less than a
watt.

Theo

On Monday, 21 January 2019 17:32:07 UTC, Scott wrote:
I see my shaver socket is marked 'Shavers only' and the new ones have
symbols for shaver and toothbrush. According to the manufacturer,
there has been a design change. From what I read, the older ones are
designed for intermittent use only (mains shavers not rechargeable
equipment). I think I'll replace mine for peace of mind.

However, I just wondered how serious an issue this is. I am sure most
people think an electric toothbrush (or indeed a rechargeable shaver)
can be used from a shaver point. Is there a safety implication or is
it just a question of buzzing noise and reduced lifetime?

I was lucky enough to need to buy after the change (at least, for MK). So both of ours are toothbrush-compatible.

I too find it difficult to believe there is a serious danger but it does seem that there really was a change and not just to the symbols.

On Monday, 21 January 2019 19:44:45 UTC, Michael Chare wrote:
On 21/01/2019 19:11, harry wrote:
On Monday, 21 January 2019 17:32:07 UTC, Scott wrote:
I see my shaver socket is marked 'Shavers only' and the new ones have
symbols for shaver and toothbrush. According to the manufacturer,
there has been a design change. From what I read, the older ones are
designed for intermittent use only (mains shavers not rechargeable
equipment). I think I'll replace mine for peace of mind.

However, I just wondered how serious an issue this is. I am sure most
people think an electric toothbrush (or indeed a rechargeable shaver)
can be used from a shaver point. Is there a safety implication or is
it just a question of buzzing noise and reduced lifetime?

Ones intended for bathrooms (ie most) have a transformer that isolates the shave from the mains. Some are 110V too.
The transformer is what limits the current it can take.


But are they not all suitable for continuous use at UK mains voltage?

--
Michael Chare

All devices containing a coil can be rated for continuous use or intermittant use.
It depends on how easily the heating looses can be dissipated.
So they can be "uprated" for a limited time.
The more you uprate them, the shorter the time is.

They just work out how long it takes to clean your teeth/shave etc.

You only need continuously rated devices for continuous use.
Otherwise they can be made cheaper and smaller.

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 23:17:45 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Monday, 21 January 2019 19:44:45 UTC, Michael Chare wrote:
On 21/01/2019 19:11, harry wrote:
On Monday, 21 January 2019 17:32:07 UTC, Scott wrote:
I see my shaver socket is marked 'Shavers only' and the new ones have
symbols for shaver and toothbrush. According to the manufacturer,
there has been a design change. From what I read, the older ones are
designed for intermittent use only (mains shavers not rechargeable
equipment). I think I'll replace mine for peace of mind.

However, I just wondered how serious an issue this is. I am sure most
people think an electric toothbrush (or indeed a rechargeable shaver)
can be used from a shaver point. Is there a safety implication or is
it just a question of buzzing noise and reduced lifetime?

Ones intended for bathrooms (ie most) have a transformer that isolates the shave from the mains. Some are 110V too.
The transformer is what limits the current it can take.


But are they not all suitable for continuous use at UK mains voltage?

--
Michael Chare

All devices containing a coil can be rated for continuous use or intermittant use.
It depends on how easily the heating looses can be dissipated.
So they can be "uprated" for a limited time.
The more you uprate them, the shorter the time is.

They just work out how long it takes to clean your teeth/shave etc.

You only need continuously rated devices for continuous use.
Otherwise they can be made cheaper and smaller.

Is the small current for a charger enough to qualify as a load for the
purposes of continuous use?