Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.

One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity,
with multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.

All they are is a wall mount electric heater and as we all know, they
can only be a maximum of 100% efficient and you pay for all you
consume. Nothing to be had for free, so how do they get away with such
wild claims and claims to save you money on your electricity bills?

The only way to save on your electric heating bills, is to freeze, or
switch to something costing less per kW. It suggests doing away with
your pipes (I guess your CH pipes, from a gas boiler?), thus you pay 3x
4x as much for electric heat - how does that save money?

On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 09:17:37 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.

One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity, with
multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.

All they are is a wall mount electric heater and as we all know, they
can only be a maximum of 100% efficient and you pay for all you consume.
Nothing to be had for free, so how do they get away with such wild
claims and claims to save you money on your electricity bills?

The only way to save on your electric heating bills, is to freeze, or
switch to something costing less per kW. It suggests doing away with
your pipes (I guess your CH pipes, from a gas boiler?), thus you pay 3x
4x as much for electric heat - how does that save money?

It is a con aimed at the aged and vulnerable.



--
Dell XPS laptop running W8.1

David presented the following explanation :
It is a con aimed at the aged and vulnerable.

I am well aware that it is a con, but why do Trading Standards permit
such impossible claims?

On 18/11/2018 10:06, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
David presented the following explanation :
It is a con aimed at the aged and vulnerable.

I am well aware that it is a con, but why do Trading Standards permit
such impossible claims?

It isn't impossible. Just pretty dodgy.

The deal is if you buy at least 3 of their "magyck" heaters *AND*
transfer your electricity supply to them on their ripoff tariff they
will credit your account with 1000kWh of "free" electricity that you
have already paid for many times over for their overpriced kit.

It is sad that this sort of trick is permitted but I presume they have
good legal advice on the wording and miniscule size of the font in the
extensive footnotes. It is pretty much the same MO as the vastly
overpriced "magyck" LED lamps claiming to cure blindness in the elderly.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Might be worth investigating the trusted parts of it, but as I say, some
good things can be done on off peak. also a friend of mine has a roof water
based heating system which saves a lot even in quite dull weather. No idea
how it works but I bet a plumbing leak on the roof would not be fun.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"David" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 09:17:37 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.

One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity, with
multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.

All they are is a wall mount electric heater and as we all know, they
can only be a maximum of 100% efficient and you pay for all you consume.
Nothing to be had for free, so how do they get away with such wild
claims and claims to save you money on your electricity bills?

The only way to save on your electric heating bills, is to freeze, or
switch to something costing less per kW. It suggests doing away with
your pipes (I guess your CH pipes, from a gas boiler?), thus you pay 3x
4x as much for electric heat - how does that save money?

It is a con aimed at the aged and vulnerable.



--
Dell XPS laptop running W8.1

Might be worth investigating the trusted parts of it, but as I say, some
good things can be done on off peak. also a friend of mine has a roof water
based heating system which saves a lot even in quite dull weather. No idea
how it works but I bet a plumbing leak on the roof would not be fun.
Brian

Sounds like a "Proper" solar heater that heats *your* water rather
than an EV system that heats everyone elses.
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

David wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 09:17:37 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.

One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity, with
multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.

All they are is a wall mount electric heater and as we all know, they
can only be a maximum of 100% efficient and you pay for all you consume.
Nothing to be had for free, so how do they get away with such wild
claims and claims to save you money on your electricity bills?

The only way to save on your electric heating bills, is to freeze, or
switch to something costing less per kW. It suggests doing away with
your pipes (I guess your CH pipes, from a gas boiler?), thus you pay 3x
4x as much for electric heat - how does that save money?

It is a con aimed at the aged and vulnerable.




Which is why they advertise a lot on publications aimed at that demographic
like €œyours€� .
More concerning the same adverts often appear in freebie publications
issued by councils who then in another part of these free mags warn older
people to look out for dodgy traders, if anyone should not be encouraging
these just on the right side of being legal claims then it is councils.


Often these people will still have a large house but now unoccupied rooms
but still a basic central heating system with limited control for those
rooms ,or they dont know how to turn down radiators.
Fischer come along install a room stat in each room and yes in some
circumstances the energy bill will go down,
as it would have done if someone turned down the radiators or fitted them
with TRV s for a fraction of the cost of these heaters.


I got in into a discussion at agricultural show a year or two back where a
salesmen was delivering the spell
I pursued questions as to why these new fangled storage heaters which is
what they are could be any more efficient than old style ones and that one
Kilowatt going in cannot be any better between them or any other heating
device though how it is let out again may vary.
He changed tack and said it was the combined installation which had better
thermostatic control than a basic storage heater to which my response was
the price between std storage heaters and what they charged for these ones
must mean that thermostats were made of precious metals and any one wanting
similar accuracy
would be better engaging an electrician to wire up some conventional
heaters with some sensible placed thermostats from Screwfix or an
electrical wholesaler and still save a packet.
The audience was getting quite amused at his discomfort at his stage and he
suddenly declared €œ well sorry I have to go to lunch€�.

GH

David wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 09:17:37 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.

One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity, with
multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.

All they are is a wall mount electric heater and as we all know, they
can only be a maximum of 100% efficient and you pay for all you consume.
Nothing to be had for free, so how do they get away with such wild
claims and claims to save you money on your electricity bills?

The only way to save on your electric heating bills, is to freeze, or
switch to something costing less per kW. It suggests doing away with
your pipes (I guess your CH pipes, from a gas boiler?), thus you pay 3x
4x as much for electric heat - how does that save money?

It is a con aimed at the aged and vulnerable.

Can any tell me how Freepost works? do the companies pay a flat fee based
on an estimate of how many items are returned or is each individual item
charged.
If the latter then I will return the Fischer €œFree heat €œ leaflet that
dropped through the letter flap this morning
with a snotty message on it .

GH

On 18/11/2018 09:17, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.

One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity, with
multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.

All they are is a wall mount electric heater and as we all know, they
can only be a maximum of 100% efficient and you pay for all you consume.
Nothing to be had for free, so how do they get away with such wild
claims and claims to save you money on your electricity bills?

The only way to save on your electric heating bills, is to freeze, or
switch to something costing less per kW. It suggests doing away with
your pipes (I guess your CH pipes, from a gas boiler?), thus you pay 3x
4x as much for electric heat - how does that save money?

Fischer make storage heaters, which save you money, though misleading to
talk about "free heat". Are you sure the leaflet wasn't advertising
these? (The only other way to get more out electricity is heat pump, but
I don't think Fischer sell those.)

Did anyone see the programme about Nibe exhaust air heat pumps costing
people thousands of pounds to run? (I think it was Rip Off Britain or
possibly Watchdog.) I know that people aren't very technically minded,
but the woman on the programme seemed to think that switching from gas
central heating to electricity would save her money as "there wouldn't
be a gas bill." For as long as I can remember electricity has been
regarded as an expensive way to heat a house (referring to
bar/convector/fan heaters).

Nibe blamed the specification/installation of the systems - though they
didn't seem to have investigated this - and people not using it
correctly - it appears you have to sit through videos that explain how
to use the system.

https://www.nibe.co.uk/Products/Exhaust-air-heat-pumps/

I don't see how that sort of heat pump is going to save you money - just
transferring heat from "exhaust air". Most people just use minimal
ventilation in the winter so there is hardly any "exhaust air".

I would have thought that a ground source or external air heat pump
would be better.

--
Max Demian

Max Demian has brought this to us :
Fischer make storage heaters, which save you money, though misleading to talk
about "free heat". Are you sure the leaflet wasn't advertising these? (The
only other way to get more out electricity is heat pump, but I don't think
Fischer sell those.)

The leaflet didn't explain what they were selling in any detail - idea
seemed to be to get you to contact them for more detail - then no
doubt, you get the hard sell. It mentioned 'clay' and no pipes around
the house.

On 18/11/2018 10:16, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Max Demian has brought this to us :
Fischer make storage heaters, which save you money, though misleading
to talk about "free heat". Are you sure the leaflet wasn't advertising
these? (The only other way to get more out electricity is heat pump,
but I don't think Fischer sell those.)

The leaflet didn't explain what they were selling in any detail - idea
seemed to be to get you to contact them for more detail - then no doubt,
you get the hard sell. It mentioned 'clay' and no pipes around the house.

"Clay" sounds like the stuff storage heaters store the heat in.

I don't know why they wouldn't talk about off-peak electricity being
cheaper. Maybe advertising works better when they don't say what they
are advertising.

--
Max Demian

On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 10:24:00 +0000, Max Demian wrote:

Maybe advertising works better when they don't say what they are
advertising.

Try running that one past Lord Sugar!

On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 09:17:37 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.

One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity,
with multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.

All they are is a wall mount electric heater and as we all know, they
can only be a maximum of 100% efficient and you pay for all you
consume. Nothing to be had for free, so how do they get away with such
wild claims and claims to save you money on your electricity bills?

snip

I love all the TV adverts where they try to show you how much 'better'
a new design electric heater is ... using thermometers showing how the
'core' continues to get hot after the power is turned off and how that
means you get free heat / energy?

What I hate is that such adverts may trick those who don't understand
basic science into thinking they really will save them money (and so
should be banned).

The 'issue' could be that *they* don't actually state that you *will*
save money, but might / could (which *could* be possible, depending on
what you are using already and how suitable that is)?

Cheers, T i m

On 18/11/2018 10:34, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 09:17:37 GMT, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.

One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity,
with multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.

All they are is a wall mount electric heater and as we all know, they
can only be a maximum of 100% efficient and you pay for all you
consume. Nothing to be had for free, so how do they get away with such
wild claims and claims to save you money on your electricity bills?

snip

I love all the TV adverts where they try to show you how much 'better'
a new design electric heater is ... using thermometers showing how the
'core' continues to get hot after the power is turned off and how that
means you get free heat / energy?

What I hate is that such adverts may trick those who don't understand
basic science into thinking they really will save them money (and so
should be banned).

The 'issue' could be that *they* don't actually state that you *will*
save money, but might / could (which *could* be possible, depending on
what you are using already and how suitable that is)?

Cheers, T i m


Like the smart meter adverts, that try to infer you will save money just
by having one.

On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 18:08:50 +0000, Chris Bartram
wrote:

snip

The 'issue' could be that *they* don't actually state that you *will*
save money, but might / could (which *could* be possible, depending on
what you are using already and how suitable that is)?


Like the smart meter adverts, that try to infer you will save money just
by having one.

Which again you *might*, if you spend some time looking at the display
and adjust your power consumption based on it?

During the winter I don't really care about how many things I've got
running in the background because 1) we generally need them on
(routers, access points, switches etc) and 2) any wasted energy goes
towards heating the house.

But 'most people' don't have clue about what draws what. An elderly
neighbour we look after now and again has two ceiling lights, each
with 6 x 60W candle lamps. With both on that's 720W ... and if she
turns on both of her floor standing uplighter pedestal lamps with (I
think) 150W halogen strip lamp in each, we are now over a kW of
lighting!

The uplighters can be dimmed but as we know, that doesn't do much
towards saving power as they still need a fair bit of power to make
them give of any light at all (below that they are *just* heaters).
;-(

So we replaced the 12 x 60W incandescent candles with 12 x 4W LED,
she's happy with the light levels and the power / cost saving (~10p/h
if my maths is right).

The LED lamps were 36 quid so assuming she has the top lights on for 6
hours each evening she should start saving in a couple of months
(minus what it costs extra on her central heating)?

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Like the smart meter adverts, that try to infer you will save money just
by having one.

Which again you *might*, if you spend some time looking at the display
and adjust your power consumption based on it?

You mean turn down the oven so it uses less power overall? Not going to be
much good for the intended use - cooking.

Or make sure things are switched off when not in use? Do you really need a
smart meter to tell you that will save money?

--
*Few women admit their age; fewer men act it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:37:50 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Like the smart meter adverts, that try to infer you will save money just
by having one.

Which again you *might*, if you spend some time looking at the display
and adjust your power consumption based on it?

You mean turn down the oven so it uses less power overall? Not going to be
much good for the intended use - cooking.

Nope, I don't mean that. ;-)

Or make sure things are switched off when not in use?

Yup, I do mean that (sort of thing).

Do you really need a
smart meter to tell you that will save money?

Do *I*? No. Do other people, *obviously* YES.

Have you never heard parents / husbands (typically) complaining of
having to go round the house, turning off lights etc? If you had
something that 'reminded' people of the current usage, they might
bother ... or those who have no idea of the running cost of stuff
might learn that it all helps or what helps most / easiest?

Like, how many people know the overall running cost of their car /
mile? If they just pop up to the shops and back, what that actually
costs them? That cost is pretty obvious when you are sitting in the
back of a cab.

It's all about being able to 'manage what you can measure' and for
many, the realisation of what consumes what only happens when they see
it live in front of them (well, till the novelty wears off at least).
;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Monday, 19 November 2018 10:43:31 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
T i m wrote:
Like the smart meter adverts, that try to infer you will save money just
by having one.

Which again you *might*, if you spend some time looking at the display
and adjust your power consumption based on it?

You mean turn down the oven so it uses less power overall? Not going to be
much good for the intended use - cooking.

Really, I find that 'cooking veg' in a microwave costs less than cooking it on an electric hob and is quicker.



Or make sure things are switched off when not in use? Do you really need a
smart meter to tell you that will save money?

No but you might not know what is on, especailly in a house with kids.
Although I don;t have a smartmeter I do have a thing that tells me how much power I'm using, and yes looking at it I can tell if I or someone else has left something significant on. If it weren;t for the fridge freezer switching off and on I'd even be able to tell if my ipad was charged in another room.
My lights at minium brightness use about 140W less than when they are full on.

When I put my electric oven on to warm up, I can sit in my frontroom and see when the oven switches off so up to temperature, otherwise I;d use time or keep going back to check.

But of course it;s not really the device that saves yuo money it;s the effort in understanding it and using it that CAN save you money.

Probably due to them using storage heaters on an extremely low price for
whenever it is supposed to work. I have storage system and to be honest its
not so bad, indeed I pay less for my electric only than a neighbour for dual
fuel cos she has CH.
However its all down to the costs involved and trading one thing off
against another.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
news
Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.

One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity, with
multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.

All they are is a wall mount electric heater and as we all know, they can
only be a maximum of 100% efficient and you pay for all you consume.
Nothing to be had for free, so how do they get away with such wild claims
and claims to save you money on your electricity bills?

The only way to save on your electric heating bills, is to freeze, or
switch to something costing less per kW. It suggests doing away with your
pipes (I guess your CH pipes, from a gas boiler?), thus you pay 3x 4x as
much for electric heat - how does that save money?

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.

One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity,
with multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.

Is this associated with the "You can save THIS MUCH energy with a
Smartmeter!!!" (rhetorical question)

J.

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.

One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity,
with multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.

Is this associated with the "You can save THIS MUCH energy with a
Smartmeter!!!" (rhetorical question)

J.

Now that's one for the ATA to get its teeth into!

Case in point, my daughter has a SM, and I was looking at the display
and feeling suprised at how little it had clocked up for the time of
day, and it may well have encouriged me to be less economical.
--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 18/11/2018 09:17, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.

One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity, with
multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.

All they are is a wall mount electric heater and as we all know, they
can only be a maximum of 100% efficient and you pay for all you consume.
Nothing to be had for free, so how do they get away with such wild
claims and claims to save you money on your electricity bills?

The only way to save on your electric heating bills, is to freeze, or
switch to something costing less per kW. It suggests doing away with
your pipes (I guess your CH pipes, from a gas boiler?), thus you pay 3x
4x as much for electric heat - how does that save money?

There was one valid way, but I have no idea if it is still available.

Datacentres use a lot of energy for cooling and one company was
installing servers designed to look like radiators in people's homes.
The comapny paid for the electricity to run them and the waste heat
heated the house for free. During warm periods, the waste heat was
vented outside instead, so they could only be on external walls.

All the data was encrypted for security and if the internat connection
was lost, the servers ran dummy calculations to ensure the house
remained heated.

The companies benefitted from not paying for huge datacenters or for
cooling them.

SteveW

Steve Walker wrote:
Datacentres use a lot of energy for cooling and one company was
installing servers designed to look like radiators in people's homes.
The comapny paid for the electricity to run them and the waste heat
heated the house for free. During warm periods, the waste heat was
vented outside instead, so they could only be on external walls.

A lot of crypto miners do that - a big stack of GPUs generating 'money', and
then no need to heat their apartment. Obviously they cook in summer but hey
'money'. This works better in places like Russia where they have more
electricity than summer.

Theo

(who did the sums and reckoned it was better to host a machine locally and
get the free heat than rent a machine in a datacentre)

On 19 Nov 2018 08:41:29 +0000 (GMT), Theo
wrote:
snip

This works better in places like Russia where they have more
electricity than summer.

Chuckles

Cheers, T i m

Saw an ad on Facebook for an IIRC 600 watt heater which claimed to be
cheap to run - and showed it heating an average room.

Loads of comments saying this was rubbish - so perhaps many aren't quite
as gullible as we might think.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:40:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Saw an ad on Facebook for an IIRC 600 watt heater which claimed to be
cheap to run - and showed it heating an average room.

Loads of comments saying this was rubbish - so perhaps many aren't quite
as gullible as we might think.

Erm, we currently have 1 x 600W oil filled rad in here and the room is
20 DegC. I'm not saying it's cheaper to run than a 2kW heater of
course but if both are on all the time it would be. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:40:05 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Saw an ad on Facebook for an IIRC 600 watt heater which claimed to be
cheap to run - and showed it heating an average room.

Loads of comments saying this was rubbish - so perhaps many aren't quite
as gullible as we might think.

Erm, we currently have 1 x 600W oil filled rad in here and the room is
20 DegC. I'm not saying it's cheaper to run than a 2kW heater of
course but if both are on all the time it would be. ;-)

If a 2kW heater was on all the time, the room would be a lot hotter. ;-)

--
*Stable Relationships Are For Horses.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.