Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has
been OK or the last 16 years.
--
bert

On 12/10/2018 16:24, bert wrote:
Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has
been OK or the last 16 years.

What insulation rating is it A, B, F or H?

The maximum continuous working temperature of the insulation on the
windings for each is:

A 95C
B 120C
F 135C
H 170C

The external temperature of the motor will be lower, but the casing of
any of them working at are near the maximum is likely to be high enough
to cause burns.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On Friday, 12 October 2018 16:31:18 UTC+1, bert wrote:
Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has
been OK or the last 16 years.
--
bert

You need to check the current it's drawing and make sure it's not more than the rating plate. It's the only way to be certain that it's OK.
A lot of cheap modern motors are very inefficient. The losses appear as heat.

Also check that the ventilation path is clear. If the ambient temperature where it lives is too high, it will overheat.
There needs to be ventilation slots on your tub for an air circulation.

Some motors are only intended for intermittent use too & will overheat if used continuously.

In article ,
harry writes
On Friday, 12 October 2018 16:31:18 UTC+1, bert wrote:
Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has
been OK or the last 16 years.
--
bert

You need to check the current it's drawing and make sure it's not more
than the rating plate. It's the only way to be certain that it's OK.
A lot of cheap modern motors are very inefficient. The losses appear as heat.

It's an Italian Electromeccanica same as the one it replaced
Also check that the ventilation path is clear. If the ambient
temperature where it lives is too high, it will overheat.
Will check that when I get it out.
There needs to be ventilation slots on your tub for an air circulation.

There never has been and the other motor ran OK for 16 years.
Some motors are only intended for intermittent use too & will overheat
if used continuously.


Not much use for a hot tub.

--
bert

In article , Nightjar
writes
On 12/10/2018 16:24, bert wrote:
Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has
been OK or the last 16 years.

What insulation rating is it A, B, F or H?

Will have a look on the plate.
The maximum continuous working temperature of the insulation on the
windings for each is:

A 95C
B 120C
F 135C
H 170C

So pretty hot then.
The external temperature of the motor will be lower, but the casing of
any of them working at are near the maximum is likely to be high enough
to cause burns.


--
bert

Well obviously the motor has a thermal cut out then. If its getting hot it
sounds like its either under powered for the job or is faulty. Being as its
allied with water and people I think I'd want a motor that was going to
work like the original.
MY shredder gets hotter and cuts out if overloaded so one other thing to say
is that are we sure its not being overloaded by mis assembly of the device
somehow?

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"bert" wrote in message
...
Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run very
hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins. Is this
normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a minute and
then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it out again but
it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has been OK or the
last 16 years.
--
bert

On Saturday, 13 October 2018 10:51:27 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article , Nightjar
writes
On 12/10/2018 16:24, bert wrote:

Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has
been OK or the last 16 years.

What insulation rating is it A, B, F or H?

Will have a look on the plate.
The maximum continuous working temperature of the insulation on the
windings for each is:

A 95C
B 120C
F 135C
H 170C

So pretty hot then.
The external temperature of the motor will be lower, but the casing of
any of them working at are near the maximum is likely to be high enough
to cause burns.

A motor whose case is hot enough to burn is usually running too hot. Chinese consumer goods do like cheap insulation.


NT

On 13/10/2018 11:01, wrote:
On Saturday, 13 October 2018 10:51:27 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article , Nightjar
writes
On 12/10/2018 16:24, bert wrote:

Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has
been OK or the last 16 years.

What insulation rating is it A, B, F or H?

Will have a look on the plate.
The maximum continuous working temperature of the insulation on the
windings for each is:

A 95C
B 120C
F 135C
H 170C

So pretty hot then.
The external temperature of the motor will be lower, but the casing of
any of them working at are near the maximum is likely to be high enough
to cause burns.

A motor whose case is hot enough to burn is usually running too hot. Chinese consumer goods do like cheap insulation.

Anything above 44C can cause burns. Too hot to touch suggests that it is
above 60C, but even that is not necessarily running too hot.


--
--

Colin Bignell

In article ,
writes
On Saturday, 13 October 2018 10:51:27 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article , Nightjar
writes
On 12/10/2018 16:24, bert wrote:

Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has
been OK or the last 16 years.

What insulation rating is it A, B, F or H?

Will have a look on the plate.
The maximum continuous working temperature of the insulation on the
windings for each is:

A 95C
B 120C
F 135C
H 170C

So pretty hot then.
The external temperature of the motor will be lower, but the casing of
any of them working at are near the maximum is likely to be high enough
to cause burns.

A motor whose case is hot enough to burn is usually running too hot.
Chinese consumer goods do like cheap insulation.


NT
This one is Italian.
--
bert

On 12/10/2018 16:24, bert wrote:
Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has
been OK or the last 16 years.

As others said, obvious first check is the voltage and HP rating along
with the rated duty cycle to make sure you are actually replacing like
for like.


Also, if this has a separate run cap have you checked whether that is ok
and still matched (in value) to the new motor?

On Saturday, 13 October 2018 12:27:46 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 13/10/2018 11:01, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 13 October 2018 10:51:27 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article , Nightjar
writes
On 12/10/2018 16:24, bert wrote:

Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has
been OK or the last 16 years.

What insulation rating is it A, B, F or H?

Will have a look on the plate.
The maximum continuous working temperature of the insulation on the
windings for each is:

A 95C
B 120C
F 135C
H 170C

So pretty hot then.
The external temperature of the motor will be lower, but the casing of
any of them working at are near the maximum is likely to be high enough
to cause burns.

A motor whose case is hot enough to burn is usually running too hot. Chinese consumer goods do like cheap insulation.

Anything above 44C can cause burns. Too hot to touch suggests that it is
above 60C, but even that is not necessarily running too hot.

44C would require intimate contact and very prolonged contact, eg a hot water bottle when asleep. If it's too hot to hold it's over 60C.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 13 October 2018 12:27:46 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 13/10/2018 11:01, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 13 October 2018 10:51:27 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article , Nightjar
writes
On 12/10/2018 16:24, bert wrote:

Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to
run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling
fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking
it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that
has
been OK or the last 16 years.

What insulation rating is it A, B, F or H?

Will have a look on the plate.
The maximum continuous working temperature of the insulation on the
windings for each is:

A 95C
B 120C
F 135C
H 170C

So pretty hot then.
The external temperature of the motor will be lower, but the casing
of
any of them working at are near the maximum is likely to be high
enough
to cause burns.

A motor whose case is hot enough to burn is usually running too hot.
Chinese consumer goods do like cheap insulation.

Anything above 44C can cause burns. Too hot to touch suggests that it is
above 60C, but even that is not necessarily running too hot.

44C would require intimate contact and very prolonged
contact, eg a hot water bottle when asleep.

Not convinced that that would burn you with normal people.
We can have that sort of air temp in a stevenson screen in
summer, so metal in the sun will be quite a bit hotter than
that and we dont see people burnt like that.

If it's too hot to hold it's over 60C.

Too hot to hold does vary quite a bit between people.

On Sun, 14 Oct 2018 11:41:49 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


44C would require intimate contact and very prolonged
contact, eg a hot water bottle when asleep.

Not

LOL

If it's too hot to hold it's over 60C.

Too hot to hold does vary quite a bit between people.

So what kind of temperature do YOU still cope with, senile
"auto-contradictor"?

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

In article , Lee
writes
On 12/10/2018 16:24, bert wrote:
Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has
been OK or the last 16 years.

As others said, obvious first check is the voltage and HP rating along
with the rated duty cycle to make sure you are actually replacing like
for like.

Voltage is correct.
It's actually rated higher HP wise at high speed 2hp rather than 1.5. I
raised this with the supplier (a hot tub specialist) and he said it
would be OK.( he does stock the 1.5 motor also). The plan at the moment
is to remove the motor and return for check/replace as it is under
warranty. Current weather has temporarily halted the operation.

Duty cycle - I will have to get the model number off the plate[1] and
check on manufacturers web site - they give lots of technical info. But
no hot tub supplier who values their reputation would sell a motor that
was not rated to run continuously.
Also, if this has a separate run cap have you checked whether that is
ok and still matched (in value) to the new motor?
Came with new run caps installed.

[1] Not as easy as you might think. I need to partially dismantle the
gazebo built over the tub (it's outside) to get at the panels to see the
motor. Two sides to actually get the motor out.

--
bert

On Sunday, 14 October 2018 16:07:58 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article , Lee
writes
On 12/10/2018 16:24, bert wrote:
Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling fins.
Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for about a
minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to taking it
out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel but that has
been OK or the last 16 years.

As others said, obvious first check is the voltage and HP rating along
with the rated duty cycle to make sure you are actually replacing like
for like.

Voltage is correct.
It's actually rated higher HP wise at high speed 2hp rather than 1.5. I
raised this with the supplier (a hot tub specialist) and he said it
would be OK.( he does stock the 1.5 motor also). The plan at the moment
is to remove the motor and return for check/replace as it is under
warranty. Current weather has temporarily halted the operation.

Duty cycle - I will have to get the model number off the plate[1] and
check on manufacturers web site - they give lots of technical info. But
no hot tub supplier who values their reputation would sell a motor that
was not rated to run continuously.
Also, if this has a separate run cap have you checked whether that is
ok and still matched (in value) to the new motor?
Came with new run caps installed.

[1] Not as easy as you might think. I need to partially dismantle the
gazebo built over the tub (it's outside) to get at the panels to see the
motor. Two sides to actually get the motor out.

--
bert

You can measure the motor current without all that.
You can use your electricity meter if you ensure there is no other load connected.

Run it for a couple of hours & see what it consumes from meter reading.

On 12/10/2018 22:57, bert wrote:
In article , Nightjar
writes
On 12/10/2018 16:24, bert wrote:
Recently replaced the pump on the hot tub. The new motor seems to run
very hot - too hot to touch even though it has a fan and cooling
fins. Is this normal? It cuts out after about 3 hours running for
about a minute and then starts up again. I'm not looking forward to
taking it out again but it's got to be motor or maybe control panel
but that has been OK or the last 16 years.

What insulation rating is it A, B, F or H?

Will have a look on the plate.
The maximum continuous working temperature of the insulation on the
windings for each is:

A 95C
B 120C
F 135C
H 170C

So pretty hot then.

Yes, you can get a nasty surprise from touching a Class H that's running
near its full rating.

On 14/10/2018 16:02, bert wrote:

snip

Voltage is correct.
It's actually rated higher HP wise at high speed 2hp rather than 1.5. I
raised this with the supplier (a hot tub specialist) and he said it
would be OK.( he does stock the 1.5 motor also). The plan at the moment
is to remove the motor and return for check/replace as it is under
warranty. Current weather has temporarily halted the operation.

Duty cycle - I will have to get the model number off the plate[1] and
check on manufacturers web site - they give lots of technical info. But
no hot tub supplier who values their reputation would sell a motor that
was not rated to run continuously.

snip


[1] Not as easy as you might think. I need to partially dismantle the
gazebo built over the tub (it's outside) to get at the panels to see the
motor. Two sides to actually get the motor out.


It was because you said it thermally tripped that I was wondering. But
they do tend run quite hot anyway.

Pointless trying to estimate current from electric meter without knowing the power factor. The meter reads watts not VA. Borrow a tong tester if you haven't already got one.

In article , Lee
writes
On 14/10/2018 16:02, bert wrote:

snip

Voltage is correct.
It's actually rated higher HP wise at high speed 2hp rather than 1.5.
I raised this with the supplier (a hot tub specialist) and he said it
would be OK.( he does stock the 1.5 motor also). The plan at the
moment is to remove the motor and return for check/replace as it is
under warranty. Current weather has temporarily halted the operation.
Duty cycle - I will have to get the model number off the plate[1]
and check on manufacturers web site - they give lots of technical
info. But no hot tub supplier who values their reputation would sell
a motor that was not rated to run continuously.

snip

[1] Not as easy as you might think. I need to partially dismantle
the gazebo built over the tub (it's outside) to get at the panels to
see the motor. Two sides to actually get the motor out.


It was because you said it thermally tripped that I was wondering. But
they do tend run quite hot anyway.
Well that's my assumption, It restarts after about 1 minute then runs
for while before tripping again.
The underside of a Hot tub is a pretty crowded place and manufacturers
got to some trouble to keep heat *in*.
--
bert

On 15/10/18 14:24, bert wrote:
In article , Lee
writes
On 14/10/2018 16:02, bert wrote:

snip

Voltage is correct.
It's actually rated higher HP wise at high speed 2hp rather than 1.5.
IÂ* raised this with the supplier (a hot tub specialist) and he said
it would be OK.( he does stock the 1.5 motor also). The plan at the
momentÂ* is to remove the motor and return for check/replace as it is
underÂ* warranty. Current weather has temporarily halted the operation.
Â*Duty cycle - I will have to get the model number off the plate[1]
andÂ* check on manufacturers web site - they give lots of technical
info. ButÂ* no hot tub supplier who values their reputation would sell
a motor thatÂ* was not rated to run continuously.

snip

Â*[1] Not as easy as you might think. I need to partially dismantle
theÂ* gazebo built over the tub (it's outside) to get at the panels to
see theÂ* motor. Two sides to actually get the motor out.


It was because you said it thermally tripped that I was wondering. But
they do tend run quite hot anyway.
Well that's my assumption, It restarts after about 1 minute then runs
for while before tripping again.
The underside of a Hot tub is a pretty crowded place and manufacturers
got to some trouble to keep heat *in*.

A typical motor will start to be in trouble much over 60C case, because
that means the windings are a deal hotter than that.

insulation and solder if there is any start to be a problem in the
100-200C range

shellac insulatin goes at 120-150C, and some modern insulatins that are
'solder through' at similar temps







--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 15/10/18 14:24, bert wrote:
In article , Lee
writes
On 14/10/2018 16:02, bert wrote:

snip

Voltage is correct.
It's actually rated higher HP wise at high speed 2hp rather than
1.5. I* raised this with the supplier (a hot tub specialist) and he
said it would be OK.( he does stock the 1.5 motor also). The plan
at the moment* is to remove the motor and return for check/replace
as it is under* warranty. Current weather has temporarily halted the operation.
*Duty cycle - I will have to get the model number off the plate[1]
and* check on manufacturers web site - they give lots of technical
info. But* no hot tub supplier who values their reputation would
sell a motor that* was not rated to run continuously.

snip

*[1] Not as easy as you might think. I need to partially dismantle
the* gazebo built over the tub (it's outside) to get at the panels
to see the* motor. Two sides to actually get the motor out.


It was because you said it thermally tripped that I was wondering.
But they do tend run quite hot anyway.
Well that's my assumption, It restarts after about 1 minute then runs
for while before tripping again.
The underside of a Hot tub is a pretty crowded place and
manufacturers got to some trouble to keep heat *in*.

A typical motor will start to be in trouble much over 60C case, because
that means the windings are a deal hotter than that.

insulation and solder if there is any start to be a problem in the
100-200C range

shellac insulatin goes at 120-150C, and some modern insulatins that are
'solder through' at similar temps







Thanks to everyone for their helpful replies.
Next job is to take the motor out and return to supplier.
Which is where I came in about 4 months ago - it's along story - how I
wish I had just stuck the old motor back in when I had unseized it and
reconnected the start capacitors!!
--
bert