I have a 100 watt PIR Floodlight mounted on the gable end of my tractor
shed:

https://tinyurl.com/TLC-Floodlight

First one was fitted in August 2017 and the sixth (yes 6th!!!!) replacement
is on the way to me as I type. Now my mains is not excessively high varying
usually between 235 to 240 (I log it on my UPS). Now admittedly I have some
equipment with large motors, but not on the same circuit or feed from the
dis board, but I DO have three of the non PIR version of the same 100 watt
LED flood light inside the tractor shed fitted also August 2017, and so far
non have failed.

There is no sign of water ingress on the failed units, but TLC can give me
no feedback from the manufacturer as to the failure mode. Before I re-fit
the latest one, which involves a very long ladder over a vast chasm of a
door, I wonder if fitting some sort of surge suppressor 'just in case' might
be sensible?

Has anyone any experience of such failures or mains surge suppressors in
general? A quick peek at RS components show that they can be pretty spendy


Andrew

On 24/09/2018 10:43, Andrew Mawson wrote:
I have a 100 watt PIR Floodlight mounted on the gable end of my tractor
shed:

https://tinyurl.com/TLC-Floodlight

First one was fitted in August 2017 and the sixth (yes 6th!!!!)
replacement is on the way to me as I type. Now my mains is not
excessively high varying usually between 235 to 240 (I log it on my
UPS). Now admittedly I have some equipment with large motors, but not on
the same circuit or feed from the dis board, but I DO have three of the
non PIR version of the same 100 watt LED flood light inside the tractor
shed fitted also August 2017, and so far non have failed.

There is no sign of water ingress on the failed units, but TLC can give
me no feedback from the manufacturer as to the failure mode. Before I
re-fit the latest one, which involves a very long ladder over a vast
chasm of a door, I wonder if fitting some sort of surge suppressor 'just
in case' might be sensible?

Has anyone any experience of such failures or mains surge suppressors in
general? A quick peek at RS components show that they can be pretty
spendy

Andrew

I did have problems with some LED candle-bulbs, running from the same
4-way extension lead as some fluorescent tubes.
Apparently the LED bulbs don't like voltage spikes.... - these were
straight bulbs rather than PIRs.

You might get away with one of the 'transorb'-type devices, fitted at
the LED floodlight ? If I remember rightly, these things clamp any
voltage spikes, available in different voltage ratings.
Don't know how long they last (as in how many 'clamps' before they give up)

Adrian

On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:43:33 UTC+1, Andrew Mawson wrote:
I have a 100 watt PIR Floodlight mounted on the gable end of my tractor
shed:

https://tinyurl.com/TLC-Floodlight

First one was fitted in August 2017 and the sixth (yes 6th!!!!) replacement
is on the way to me as I type. Now my mains is not excessively high varying
usually between 235 to 240 (I log it on my UPS). Now admittedly I have some
equipment with large motors, but not on the same circuit or feed from the
dis board, but I DO have three of the non PIR version of the same 100 watt
LED flood light inside the tractor shed fitted also August 2017, and so far
non have failed.

There is no sign of water ingress on the failed units, but TLC can give me
no feedback from the manufacturer as to the failure mode. Before I re-fit
the latest one, which involves a very long ladder over a vast chasm of a
door, I wonder if fitting some sort of surge suppressor 'just in case' might
be sensible?

Has anyone any experience of such failures or mains surge suppressors in
general? A quick peek at RS components show that they can be pretty spendy


Andrew

short answer is no. The mains feed has a far lower impedance than any little surge absorber, making them pretty useless. You're just paying for a fire hazard.

If running kit from a generator they have their use, but not with mains.


NT

On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 07:45:04 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, 24 September 2018 10:43:33 UTC+1, Andrew Mawson wrote:
I have a 100 watt PIR Floodlight mounted on the gable end of my tractor
shed:

short answer is no. The mains feed has a far lower impedance than any little surge absorber, making them pretty useless. You're just paying for a fire hazard.

While some have few components inside and do little the half decent
ones have a snubber followed by a couple of chokes, a bank
of VDR's and assorted capacitors. The impedance of the mains is
irrelevant as the VDR's and filter capacitors come after the inductors
which have already trimmed any fast rising spike quite well.

On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 10:43:58 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:


Has anyone any experience of such failures or mains surge suppressors in
general? A quick peek at RS components show that they can be pretty spendy


I've used some very big Oeac Micromates which solved a severe mains
interference problem. I've also got a couple of much simpler mains
surge protectors from Inmac / RS which were in Shuko cases but the
PCB's were removed. These comprise an input snubber, 3A fuse, twin
choke, followed by 4 VDR's and 3 capacitors filtering the output.
Never used, left over from the aforementioned project. If you want
one to try you are welcome, its just a bare PCB so needs some sort of
box or an apprentice to hold it for a few weeks.

Yes please. My reply to address is easily de-munged


Andrew


"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 10:43:58 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
wrote:


Has anyone any experience of such failures or mains surge suppressors in
general? A quick peek at RS components show that they can be pretty spendy


I've used some very big Oeac Micromates which solved a severe mains
interference problem. I've also got a couple of much simpler mains
surge protectors from Inmac / RS which were in Shuko cases but the
PCB's were removed. These comprise an input snubber, 3A fuse, twin
choke, followed by 4 VDR's and 3 capacitors filtering the output.
Never used, left over from the aforementioned project. If you want
one to try you are welcome, its just a bare PCB so needs some sort of
box or an apprentice to hold it for a few weeks.

Andrew Mawson expressed precisely :
Has anyone any experience of such failures or mains surge suppressors in
general? A quick peek at RS components show that they can be pretty spendy

I would suggest that the failing lamps or the PIR are likely of poorer
quality that the ones without the PIR's, rather than it being due to
any surge issues.

On Monday, 24 September 2018 19:10:55 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andrew Mawson expressed precisely :

Has anyone any experience of such failures or mains surge suppressors in
general? A quick peek at RS components show that they can be pretty spendy

I would suggest that the failing lamps or the PIR are likely of poorer
quality that the ones without the PIR's, rather than it being due to
any surge issues.

Seldom is anything due to 'surges' of the sort that plug-in 'surge arrestors' do anything about. Put them on the list with magnetic water softeners.


NT

Could it be environmental in nature, heat and cold?
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Andrew Mawson" wrote in message
news
I have a 100 watt PIR Floodlight mounted on the gable end of my tractor
shed:

https://tinyurl.com/TLC-Floodlight

First one was fitted in August 2017 and the sixth (yes 6th!!!!)
replacement is on the way to me as I type. Now my mains is not excessively
high varying usually between 235 to 240 (I log it on my UPS). Now
admittedly I have some equipment with large motors, but not on the same
circuit or feed from the dis board, but I DO have three of the non PIR
version of the same 100 watt LED flood light inside the tractor shed
fitted also August 2017, and so far non have failed.

There is no sign of water ingress on the failed units, but TLC can give me
no feedback from the manufacturer as to the failure mode. Before I re-fit
the latest one, which involves a very long ladder over a vast chasm of a
door, I wonder if fitting some sort of surge suppressor 'just in case'
might be sensible?

Has anyone any experience of such failures or mains surge suppressors in
general? A quick peek at RS components show that they can be pretty spendy


Andrew

You seem convinced that the failures are caused by mains spikes.
I'm not saying that they are not
but I'm wondering if TLC planted that idea into your mind?


--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

"Graham." wrote in message
...


You seem convinced that the failures are caused by mains spikes.
I'm not saying that they are not
but I'm wondering if TLC planted that idea into your mind?





--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

No they haven't offered any explanation, it just seems the most likely
cause, and something I can possibly do something about

Andrew

Andrew Mawson wrote:

I have a 100 watt PIR Floodlight mounted on the gable end of my tractor
shed:

https://tinyurl.com/TLC-Floodlight

First one was fitted in August 2017 and the sixth (yes 6th!!!!) replacement
is on the way to me as I type.

Is it the number of switching operations that is killing them? I
have a PIR for my kitchen downlights, and have had a shorter life
than would normally be anticipated. The small print shows that
they are affected by too many operating cycles.

I have had some replaced, but return postage costs are a big
chunk of component value.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in message
...

Andrew Mawson wrote:

I have a 100 watt PIR Floodlight mounted on the gable end of my tractor
shed:

https://tinyurl.com/TLC-Floodlight

First one was fitted in August 2017 and the sixth (yes 6th!!!!)
replacement
is on the way to me as I type.

Is it the number of switching operations that is killing them? I
have a PIR for my kitchen downlights, and have had a shorter life
than would normally be anticipated. The small print shows that
they are affected by too many operating cycles.

I have had some replaced, but return postage costs are a big
chunk of component value.

Chris

In fairness TLC have been brilliant replacing them, and delivering the
replacement usually on the same day that I report the fault.

In the location that it is, it isn't triggered very often at all. I've set
the field of view to be effectively just the concrete apron in front of the
tractor shed, and it's only the odd passing fox or badger that sets it off
at night. My usage is usually daytime when it is inhibited anyway.

Andrew

Andrew Mawson was thinking very hard :
In fairness TLC have been brilliant replacing them, and delivering the
replacement usually on the same day that I report the fault.

In the location that it is, it isn't triggered very often at all. I've set
the field of view to be effectively just the concrete apron in front of the
tractor shed, and it's only the odd passing fox or badger that sets it off at
night. My usage is usually daytime when it is inhibited anyway.

A great deal of imported electrical items, are designed for 220/230v
and the soon fail on the UK's more usual 240v.

So far, you have only suggested they fail. Is it the lamps failing or
the PIR?

On Tuesday, 25 September 2018 09:05:51 UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Andrew Mawson was thinking very hard :
In fairness TLC have been brilliant replacing them, and delivering the
replacement usually on the same day that I report the fault.

In the location that it is, it isn't triggered very often at all. I've set
the field of view to be effectively just the concrete apron in front of the
tractor shed, and it's only the odd passing fox or badger that sets it off at
night. My usage is usually daytime when it is inhibited anyway.

A great deal of imported electrical items, are designed for 220/230v
and the soon fail on the UK's more usual 240v.

So far, you have only suggested they fail. Is it the lamps failing or
the PIR?

they fail because they're junk, not adequate for the job. I would not have accepted a 6th replacement myself. Or a 5th, or a 4th.


NT

On 24/09/2018 10:43, Andrew Mawson wrote:
I have a 100 watt PIR Floodlight mounted on the gable end of my tractor
shed:

https://tinyurl.com/TLC-Floodlight

First one was fitted in August 2017 and the sixth (yes 6th!!!!)
replacement is on the way to me as I type. Now my mains is not
excessively high varying usually between 235 to 240 (I log it on my
UPS). Now admittedly I have some equipment with large motors, but not on
the same circuit or feed from the dis board, but I DO have three of the
non PIR version of the same 100 watt LED flood light inside the tractor
shed fitted also August 2017, and so far non have failed.

They are probably not on at the time when whatever kills the other one
happens then. If it was a filament bulb excessive vibration might be a
candidate (it could still be for a circuit board but less likely).

Does your UPS log mains spikes? You could forgo using it on your PC and
set it up to monitor the dodgy circuit for a while.

There is no sign of water ingress on the failed units, but TLC can give
me no feedback from the manufacturer as to the failure mode. Before I
re-fit the latest one, which involves a very long ladder over a vast
chasm of a door, I wonder if fitting some sort of surge suppressor 'just
in case' might be sensible?

I doubt that a surge suppressor will make any real difference. My
experience of them is that they will more often save themselves by
allowing whatever they are supposed to be protecting to fry

Things that might be life shortening for it could include electric arc
welders nearby, kilns or big three phase motors. Local sewage pumping
station switching on at 6pm used to kill plenty of stuff round here
(before they upgraded the mains feed to the village).

Has anyone any experience of such failures or mains surge suppressors in
general? A quick peek at RS components show that they can be pretty
spendy

Shame they don't tell you how it died. Be worth checking to see which of
the LED and PIR components is still functioning next time one fails.
Chances are one of them is still perfectly OK.

Good luck fitting the replacement.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message news

Andrew Mawson was thinking very hard :
In fairness TLC have been brilliant replacing them, and delivering the
replacement usually on the same day that I report the fault.

In the location that it is, it isn't triggered very often at all. I've
set the field of view to be effectively just the concrete apron in front
of the tractor shed, and it's only the odd passing fox or badger that
sets it off at night. My usage is usually daytime when it is inhibited
anyway.

A great deal of imported electrical items, are designed for 220/230v and
the soon fail on the UK's more usual 240v.

So far, you have only suggested they fail. Is it the lamps failing or the
PIR?

Impossible to tell. The unit doesn't function and is not openable !

Andrew

"Martin Brown" wrote in message news

On 24/09/2018 10:43, Andrew Mawson wrote:
I have a 100 watt PIR Floodlight mounted on the gable end of my tractor
shed:

https://tinyurl.com/TLC-Floodlight

First one was fitted in August 2017 and the sixth (yes 6th!!!!)
replacement is on the way to me as I type. Now my mains is not
excessively high varying usually between 235 to 240 (I log it on my UPS).
Now admittedly I have some equipment with large motors, but not on the
same circuit or feed from the dis board, but I DO have three of the non
PIR version of the same 100 watt LED flood light inside the tractor shed
fitted also August 2017, and so far non have failed.

They are probably not on at the time when whatever kills the other one
happens then. If it was a filament bulb excessive vibration might be a
candidate (it could still be for a circuit board but less likely).

Does your UPS log mains spikes? You could forgo using it on your PC and set
it up to monitor the dodgy circuit for a while.

There is no sign of water ingress on the failed units, but TLC can give
me no feedback from the manufacturer as to the failure mode. Before I
re-fit the latest one, which involves a very long ladder over a vast
chasm of a door, I wonder if fitting some sort of surge suppressor 'just
in case' might be sensible?

I doubt that a surge suppressor will make any real difference. My
experience of them is that they will more often save themselves by allowing
whatever they are supposed to be protecting to fry

Things that might be life shortening for it could include electric arc
welders nearby, kilns or big three phase motors. Local sewage pumping
station switching on at 6pm used to kill plenty of stuff round here (before
they upgraded the mains feed to the village).

Has anyone any experience of such failures or mains surge suppressors in
general? A quick peek at RS components show that they can be pretty
spendy

Shame they don't tell you how it died. Be worth checking to see which of
the LED and PIR components is still functioning next time one fails.
Chances are one of them is still perfectly OK.

Good luck fitting the replacement.


Replacement fitted and functioning - taking bets on for how long !

Andrew

"Tim+" wrote in message ...

"Andrew Mawson" Wrote in
message:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message news

Andrew Mawson was thinking very hard :
In fairness TLC have been brilliant replacing them, and delivering the
replacement usually on the same day that I report the fault.

In the location that it is, it isn't triggered very often at all. I've
set the field of view to be effectively just the concrete apron in
front
of the tractor shed, and it's only the odd passing fox or badger that
sets it off at night. My usage is usually daytime when it is inhibited
anyway.

A great deal of imported electrical items, are designed for 220/230v and
the soon fail on the UK's more usual 240v.

So far, you have only suggested they fail. Is it the lamps failing or the
PIR?

Impossible to tell. The unit doesn't function and is not openable !


Send a dead one to big Clive.
http://bigclive.com

Tim



--

Dead ones have to go back in order to get a replacement !

Andrew

"Andrew Mawson" Wrote in
message:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message news

Andrew Mawson was thinking very hard :
In fairness TLC have been brilliant replacing them, and delivering the
replacement usually on the same day that I report the fault.

In the location that it is, it isn't triggered very often at all. I've
set the field of view to be effectively just the concrete apron in front
of the tractor shed, and it's only the odd passing fox or badger that
sets it off at night. My usage is usually daytime when it is inhibited
anyway.

A great deal of imported electrical items, are designed for 220/230v and
the soon fail on the UK's more usual 240v.

So far, you have only suggested they fail. Is it the lamps failing or the
PIR?

Impossible to tell. The unit doesn't function and is not openable !


Send a dead one to big Clive.
http://bigclive.com

Tim




--

On 25/09/18 18:34, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"Harry Bloomfield"Â* wrote in message news

Andrew Mawson was thinking very hard :
In fairness TLC have been brilliant replacing them, and delivering
the replacement usually on the same day that I report the fault.

In the location that it is, it isn't triggered very often at all.
I've set the field of view to be effectively just the concrete apron
in front of the tractor shed, and it's only the odd passing fox or
badger that sets it off at night. My usage is usually daytime when it
is inhibited anyway.

A great deal of imported electrical items, are designed for 220/230v
and the soon fail on the UK's more usual 240v.

So far, you have only suggested they fail. Is it the lamps failing or
the PIR?

Impossible to tell. The unit doesn't function and is not openable !

Angle grinder?

Andrew


--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

Martin Brown pretended :
Shame they don't tell you how it died. Be worth checking to see which of the
LED and PIR components is still functioning next time one fails. Chances are
one of them is still perfectly OK.

Do PIR's still use a relay to switch the load? Perhaps the tick or lack
of, of the relay might give a clue?

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message news

Martin Brown pretended :
Shame they don't tell you how it died. Be worth checking to see which of
the LED and PIR components is still functioning next time one fails.
Chances are one of them is still perfectly OK.

Do PIR's still use a relay to switch the load? Perhaps the tick or lack of,
of the relay might give a clue?

The 'PIR' is built in, and seems to be a diode looking through a small bit
of the obscured glass surround that has been left clear. This beast is
'programmable via a remote IR control allowing you to set sensitivity, time
on when triggered etc - a lot of permutations - in the fault mode it fails
to respond to movement or its control. One of the early failures was 'always
on' but all the other five have been 'no response'. Never heard a relay
'click' as in the old halogen ones, but then it is mounted up high - about
18 foot up on a gable end over a roller shutter door.

Andrew

"Andrew Mawson" Wrote in
message:
"Tim+" wrote in message ...

"Andrew Mawson" Wrote in
message:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message news
Andrew Mawson was thinking very hard :
In fairness TLC have been brilliant replacing them, and delivering the
replacement usually on the same day that I report the fault.

In the location that it is, it isn't triggered very often at all. I've
set the field of view to be effectively just the concrete apron in
front
of the tractor shed, and it's only the odd passing fox or badger that
sets it off at night. My usage is usually daytime when it is inhibited
anyway.

A great deal of imported electrical items, are designed for 220/230v and
the soon fail on the UK's more usual 240v.

So far, you have only suggested they fail. Is it the lamps failing or the
PIR?

Impossible to tell. The unit doesn't function and is not openable !


Send a dead one to big Clive.
http://bigclive.com

Tim



--

Dead ones have to go back in order to get a replacement !


But if replacement is such a PITA as you suggest, surely worth a
punt to find out *why* these units are failing?

Tim


--

"Tim+" wrote in message ...

"Andrew Mawson" Wrote in
message:
"Tim+" wrote in message ...

"Andrew Mawson" Wrote in
message:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message news
Andrew Mawson was thinking very hard :
In fairness TLC have been brilliant replacing them, and delivering
the
replacement usually on the same day that I report the fault.

In the location that it is, it isn't triggered very often at all.
I've
set the field of view to be effectively just the concrete apron in
front
of the tractor shed, and it's only the odd passing fox or badger that
sets it off at night. My usage is usually daytime when it is
inhibited
anyway.

A great deal of imported electrical items, are designed for 220/230v
and
the soon fail on the UK's more usual 240v.

So far, you have only suggested they fail. Is it the lamps failing or
the
PIR?

Impossible to tell. The unit doesn't function and is not openable !


Send a dead one to big Clive.
http://bigclive.com

Tim



--

Dead ones have to go back in order to get a replacement !


But if replacement is such a PITA as you suggest, surely worth a
punt to find out *why* these units are failing?

Tim


--

Well lets see:

Option 1 - destroy unit, have to fork out for something similar out of my
own pocket now (These are now £95 each, ) What ever I choose may be just as
unreliable and still have to climb the big long ladder to change.

Option 2 - continue as is for the remaining two years of the guarantee
possibly changing a further twelve floodlights if they carry on failing at
the same rate

Either way the ladder is probably going to have to be climbed anyway, and by
the time the two yeas is up I'll be 71 so possibly sending someone else up
there anyway !

Andrew

"Andrew Mawson" Wrote in
message:
"Tim+" wrote in message ...

"Andrew Mawson" Wrote in
message:
"Tim+" wrote in message ...

"Andrew Mawson" Wrote in
message:
"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message news
Andrew Mawson was thinking very hard :
In fairness TLC have been brilliant replacing them, and delivering
the
replacement usually on the same day that I report the fault.

In the location that it is, it isn't triggered very often at all.
I've
set the field of view to be effectively just the concrete apron in
front
of the tractor shed, and it's only the odd passing fox or badger that
sets it off at night. My usage is usually daytime when it is
inhibited
anyway.

A great deal of imported electrical items, are designed for 220/230v
and
the soon fail on the UK's more usual 240v.

So far, you have only suggested they fail. Is it the lamps failing or
the
PIR?

Impossible to tell. The unit doesn't function and is not openable !


Send a dead one to big Clive.
http://bigclive.com

Tim



--

Dead ones have to go back in order to get a replacement !


But if replacement is such a PITA as you suggest, surely worth a
punt to find out *why* these units are failing?

Tim


--

Well lets see:

Option 1 - destroy unit, have to fork out for something similar out of my
own pocket now (These are now £95 each, ) What ever I choose may be just as
unreliable and still have to climb the big long ladder to change.

Option 2 - continue as is for the remaining two years of the guarantee
possibly changing a further twelve floodlights if they carry on failing at
the same rate

Either way the ladder is probably going to have to be climbed anyway, and by
the time the two yeas is up I'll be 71 so possibly sending someone else up
there anyway !

Andrew




£95 a pop does rather change things. ;-) Didn't realise that they
were posh ones.

Tim
--