It's kinda a bit after the fact - but I wonder if anyone would mind
seeing if they agree with my interpretation of Floplast's instructions.

https://floplast.co.uk/content/uploa...ce_Valves1.pdf


Page 2, lower right dia and page 3 lower right dia says:

AAV 200mm above highest joint

It does not say "highest joint in the room / on any sub branch"



So I read that (8 years ago and again today) as "200mm above highest
joint on the *main stack* - ie the 110 bit that the AAV sits on top of.

That seems to be implied by Page 2 as it's 200mm above the branch to the
bog, which in many normal houses will have a basin tapping into that as
soon as it's through the wall.


Floplast appears to differ to others who require their AAVs higher and
explicitly above all appliance flood lines. That's why I picked them.


Mine's behind the bog, about 300mm above the top of the side branch to
the tee which the bog connects, inside ventilated boxing.


AAV
| |
| | --Rim of Bog--
| |
| |______
|O_______Bog
| |
=======Floor=====
| |
| |
| |

O leads off to a basin on 40mm


Reason for thinking now:

1) I have to do the same in the shower room. That's less ambiguous as
the basin uses a separate stack. Shower bog has boiler and washing
machine standpipe just through the wall on 50mm coming in on the bog tee
like O above.

No AAV yet as GasSafe fitter said not needed until bog was there and we
needed the tiling done first, which is now done.


2) Going for The Great Sign Off with BC as soon as the shower room is
completed. Now on BCO #3 who I have never met - and it's now a merged
multi council group. Just want to have my reasoning ready for the new guy...


BCO #1 did query the first AAV and I explained Floplast's instructions
verbally as I understood them and he seemed happy but we did not pour
over the diagrams.

It's not impossible to make them higher, but it would be ugly - and in
the shower room, I would have to drop to 82mm, use an eccentric adaptor
to get it far enough off the walls as the soil pipe is quite close to
the base plaster (we left some of the tiling/backer board out to
accomodate a 110 fit)

In message , Tim Watts
writes
It's kinda a bit after the fact - but I wonder if anyone would mind
seeing if they agree with my interpretation of Floplast's instructions.

https://floplast.co.uk/content/uploa...ce_Valves1.pdf

I've gone by the rule of making any AAV higher than the overflow level
of any tackle on the same branch.


--
Tim Lamb

On 22/09/18 12:34, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Tim Watts
writes
It's kinda a bit after the fact - but I wonder if anyone would mind
seeing if they agree with my interpretation of Floplast's instructions.

https://floplast.co.uk/content/uploa...ce_Valves1.pdf

I've gone by the rule of making any AAV higher than the overflow level
of any tackle on the same branch.



That went through my mind - but I counter argued to myself "well, it's
only the bog rim that really matters, because any blockage and it'll
overflow that first".

I should add the 1st AAV is working fine and has been for years... This
is more about justifying it with a straight face to the BCO as he may
ask (he might just be happy BCO #1 noted it down as OK - I do not know
the extent of my file, I may have to talk him through *everthing* and
it's that I'm preparing for).

On 22/09/2018 11:12, Tim Watts wrote:
It's kinda a bit after the fact - but I wonder if anyone would mind
seeing if they agree with my interpretation of Floplast's instructions.

https://floplast.co.uk/content/uploa...ce_Valves1.pdf


Page 2, lower right dia and page 3 lower right dia says:

AAV 200mm above highest joint

It does not say "highest joint in the room / on any sub branch"



So I read that (8 years ago and again today) as "200mm above highest
joint on the *main stack* - ie the 110 bit that the AAV sits on top of.

That seems to be implied by Page 2 as it's 200mm above the branch to the
bog, which in many normal houses will have a basin tapping into that as
soon as it's through the wall.


Floplast appears to differ to others who require their AAVs higher and
explicitly above all appliance flood lines. That's why I picked them.


Mine's behind the bog, about 300mm above the top of the side branch to
the tee which the bog connects, inside ventilated boxing.


Â* AAV
Â* | |
Â* | |Â* --Rim of Bog--
Â* | |
Â* | |______
Â* |O_______Bog
Â* | |
=======Floor=====
Â* | |
Â* | |
Â* | |

O leads off to a basin on 40mm


Reason for thinking now:

1) I have to do the same in the shower room. That's less ambiguous as
the basin uses a separate stack. Shower bog has boiler and washing
machine standpipe just through the wall on 50mm coming in on the bog tee
like O above.

No AAV yet as GasSafe fitter said not needed until bog was there and we
needed the tiling done first, which is now done.


2) Going for The Great Sign Off with BC as soon as the shower room is
completed. Now on BCO #3 who I have never met - and it's now a merged
multi council group. Just want to have my reasoning ready for the new
guy...


BCO #1 did query the first AAV and I explained Floplast's instructions
verbally as I understood them and he seemed happy but we did not pour
over the diagrams.

It's not impossible to make them higher, but it would be ugly - and in
the shower room, I would have to drop to 82mm, use an eccentric adaptor
to get it far enough off the walls as the soil pipe is quite close to
the base plaster (we left some of the tiling/backer board out to
accomodate a 110 fit)


10-15 years ago I had the same quandary. I had a secondary stack with a
garage sink feeding in on the ground floor and a basin, loo, bidet and
shower on the floor above. I didn't want the AAV to be higher than the
counter top so persuaded the Building Regs guy that, because the garage
sink would indicate a problem looong before the problem was evident
upstairs, I could have the AAV slight lower than the highest item (the
basin).

On 22/09/18 17:55, wrote:

10-15 years ago I had the same quandary. I had a secondary stack with a
garage sink feeding in on the ground floor and a basin, loo, bidet and
shower on the floor above. I didn't want the AAV to be higher than the
counter top so persuaded the Building Regs guy that, because the garage
sink would indicate a problem looong before the problem was evident
upstairs, I could have the AAV slight lower than the highest item (the
basin).

It seems reasonable...

I imaging the real problem is if water gets to the AAV valve along with
lumpy bits, that then impede the flap sealing correctly.

There's no way that can happen with mine without the bog overflowing.

It's also possible that I could exchange the stack AAV for a branch AAV
or HepVo (inline AAV) on the basin branch. Not quite sure. But I'm
slightly more dubious about about a HepVo going wrong compared to my
setup anyway.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
It's kinda a bit after the fact - but I wonder if anyone would mind seeing
if they agree with my interpretation of Floplast's instructions.

https://floplast.co.uk/content/uploa...ce_Valves1.pdf


Page 2, lower right dia and page 3 lower right dia says:

AAV 200mm above highest joint

It does not say "highest joint in the room / on any sub branch"



So I read that (8 years ago and again today) as "200mm above highest joint
on the *main stack* - ie the 110 bit that the AAV sits on top of.

That seems to be implied by Page 2 as it's 200mm above the branch to the
bog, which in many normal houses will have a basin tapping into that as
soon as it's through the wall.


Floplast appears to differ to others who require their AAVs higher and
explicitly above all appliance flood lines. That's why I picked them.


Mine's behind the bog, about 300mm above the top of the side branch to the
tee which the bog connects, inside ventilated boxing.


AAV
| |
| | --Rim of Bog--
| |
| |______
|O_______Bog
| |
=======Floor=====
| |
| |
| |

O leads off to a basin on 40mm


Reason for thinking now:

1) I have to do the same in the shower room. That's less ambiguous as the
basin uses a separate stack. Shower bog has boiler and washing machine
standpipe just through the wall on 50mm coming in on the bog tee like O
above.

No AAV yet as GasSafe fitter said not needed until bog was there and we
needed the tiling done first, which is now done.


2) Going for The Great Sign Off with BC as soon as the shower room is
completed. Now on BCO #3 who I have never met - and it's now a merged
multi council group. Just want to have my reasoning ready for the new
guy...


BCO #1 did query the first AAV and I explained Floplast's instructions
verbally as I understood them and he seemed happy but we did not pour over
the diagrams.

It's not impossible to make them higher, but it would be ugly - and in the
shower room, I would have to drop to 82mm, use an eccentric adaptor to get
it far enough off the walls as the soil pipe is quite close to the base
plaster (we left some of the tiling/backer board out to accomodate a 110
fit)


as long as it is not outside...I have seen dozens outside......

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
news

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
It's kinda a bit after the fact - but I wonder if anyone would mind
seeing if they agree with my interpretation of Floplast's instructions.

https://floplast.co.uk/content/uploa...ce_Valves1.pdf


Page 2, lower right dia and page 3 lower right dia says:

AAV 200mm above highest joint

It does not say "highest joint in the room / on any sub branch"



So I read that (8 years ago and again today) as "200mm above highest
joint on the *main stack* - ie the 110 bit that the AAV sits on top of.

That seems to be implied by Page 2 as it's 200mm above the branch to the
bog, which in many normal houses will have a basin tapping into that as
soon as it's through the wall.


Floplast appears to differ to others who require their AAVs higher and
explicitly above all appliance flood lines. That's why I picked them.


Mine's behind the bog, about 300mm above the top of the side branch to
the tee which the bog connects, inside ventilated boxing.


AAV
| |
| | --Rim of Bog--
| |
| |______
|O_______Bog
| |
=======Floor=====
| |
| |
| |

O leads off to a basin on 40mm


Reason for thinking now:

1) I have to do the same in the shower room. That's less ambiguous as the
basin uses a separate stack. Shower bog has boiler and washing machine
standpipe just through the wall on 50mm coming in on the bog tee like O
above.

No AAV yet as GasSafe fitter said not needed until bog was there and we
needed the tiling done first, which is now done.


2) Going for The Great Sign Off with BC as soon as the shower room is
completed. Now on BCO #3 who I have never met - and it's now a merged
multi council group. Just want to have my reasoning ready for the new
guy...


BCO #1 did query the first AAV and I explained Floplast's instructions
verbally as I understood them and he seemed happy but we did not pour
over the diagrams.

It's not impossible to make them higher, but it would be ugly - and in
the shower room, I would have to drop to 82mm, use an eccentric adaptor
to get it far enough off the walls as the soil pipe is quite close to the
base plaster (we left some of the tiling/backer board out to accomodate a
110 fit)


as long as it is not outside...I have seen dozens outside......

hope BC are not going to do a pressure test as I found only Marley made one
that held a pressure test.......

On 22/09/18 20:19, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

hope BC are not going to do a pressure test as I found only Marley made one
that held a pressure test.......



BCO #1's approach was to ask the builder (who dug the new drains):

"did they hold water?"[1]

[1] You bung the final outlet, fill up the manholes with a hose and wait...

Very trusting....

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 22/09/18 20:19, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

hope BC are not going to do a pressure test as I found only Marley made
one
that held a pressure test.......



BCO #1's approach was to ask the builder (who dug the new drains):

"did they hold water?"[1]

[1] You bung the final outlet, fill up the manholes with a hose and
wait...

Very trusting....



very unnecessary but acceptable...

better to use a smoke box ....or high tech manometer...tee hee

On 22/09/2018 11:12, Tim Watts wrote:
It's kinda a bit after the fact - but I wonder if anyone would mind
seeing if they agree with my interpretation of Floplast's instructions.

https://floplast.co.uk/content/uploa...ce_Valves1.pdf


Page 2, lower right dia and page 3 lower right dia says:

AAV 200mm above highest joint

It does not say "highest joint in the room / on any sub branch"

I'm intrigued by this thread and how this article implies you can
replace a stack with an AAV.

My understanding was the stack was there to cope with over-pressure in
the sewer pipework, as much as admitting air.

Fitting an AAV will mean that sewer gases will enter the house past the
syphon traps, and against current BCO rules.

My understanding was the stack was there to cope with over-pressure in
the sewer pipework, as much as admitting air.

You can't JUST have an AAV you must have a vent at the highest point of your
system ....

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
news

My understanding was the stack was there to cope with over-pressure in
the sewer pipework, as much as admitting air.

You can't JUST have an AAV you must have a vent at the highest point of
your system ....


then again a hundred years ago you had disconnecting six inch traps Buchan
traps in the pavement and the sewer was vented separately.......

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
news

My understanding was the stack was there to cope with over-pressure in
the sewer pipework, as much as admitting air.

You can't JUST have an AAV you must have a vent at the highest point of
your system ....

don't think that is quite true....if you are a developer you only have to
vent SOME of the houses you build on a new site.........

In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
It's kinda a bit after the fact - but I wonder if anyone would mind
seeing if they agree with my interpretation of Floplast's instructions.

Some other comments on AAVs...

They do occasionally jam open, so you need to have relatively easy
access to pop it off the top to clean the cobwebs out or to replace
it, so don't leave it fixed behind walls/panels which make it
inaccessible without destroying decorations.

Another comment is that the vent pipe doesn't need to be full soil
stack diameter providing soil stack is no higher than first floor.
It can be reduced to what works out to be standard gutter downpipe
size (which I can't recall offhand). Maybe that allows you to extend
it up to open outside rather than using an AAV?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 22/09/18 23:01, Fredxx wrote:

I'm intrigued by this thread and how this article implies you can
replace a stack with an AAV.

My understanding was the stack was there to cope with over-pressure in
the sewer pipework, as much as admitting air.

Fitting an AAV will mean that sewer gases will enter the house past the
syphon traps, and against current BCO rules.


I have an open vent outside on the far end of my underground branch
which deals with positive pressure.

The AAV is to prevent the loo sucking the basin/boiler/washing machine
traps dry on the internal 110 branches. I do know the AAV is not
pointless as I can hear it operate occasionally (usually loo paper which
I guess forms a plug with the flushing water. Those branches drop about
2.5 ft before going 2-5m underground to the nearest manhole.

I did not fit an AAV to my 3rd internal branch as that only takes the
bath/shower/basin/kitchen. It's impossible (in theory) to form a water
piston to cause any suckage.

On 23/09/18 09:16, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
My understanding was the stack was there to cope with over-pressure in
the sewer pipework, as much as admitting air.

You can't JUST have an AAV you must have a vent at the highest point of your
system ....



As per last post, I have that too - outside. On 82mm pipe (as permitted
by regs).

On 23/09/18 11:16, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
It's kinda a bit after the fact - but I wonder if anyone would mind
seeing if they agree with my interpretation of Floplast's instructions.

Some other comments on AAVs...

They do occasionally jam open, so you need to have relatively easy
access to pop it off the top to clean the cobwebs out or to replace
it, so don't leave it fixed behind walls/panels which make it
inaccessible without destroying decorations.

Indeed - I have loose tops on the boxed in section and the AAV will pull
straight out (with a stub of 110 pipe in one case, it was a solvent AAV
IIRC - the other one I'll use push fit AAV, but same idea)


Another comment is that the vent pipe doesn't need to be full soil
stack diameter providing soil stack is no higher than first floor.
It can be reduced to what works out to be standard gutter downpipe
size (which I can't recall offhand). Maybe that allows you to extend
it up to open outside rather than using an AAV?


That'll be 82mm.

In message , Tim Watts
writes
On 22/09/18 23:01, Fredxx wrote:

I'm intrigued by this thread and how this article implies you can
replace a stack with an AAV.
My understanding was the stack was there to cope with over-pressure
in the sewer pipework, as much as admitting air.
Fitting an AAV will mean that sewer gases will enter the house past
the syphon traps, and against current BCO rules.


I have an open vent outside on the far end of my underground branch
which deals with positive pressure.

The AAV is to prevent the loo sucking the basin/boiler/washing machine
traps dry on the internal 110 branches. I do know the AAV is not
pointless as I can hear it operate occasionally (usually loo paper
which I guess forms a plug with the flushing water. Those branches drop
about 2.5 ft before going 2-5m underground to the nearest manhole.

I did not fit an AAV to my 3rd internal branch as that only takes the
bath/shower/basin/kitchen. It's impossible (in theory) to form a water
piston to cause any suckage.

Building reg. drawings usually show basin waste runs greater than 1.7m
in 40mm and 50mm for bath and basin runs over 3m.

I fitted AAVs to both the ground floor and upstairs bathroom stubby
stacks and a 40mm valve for the combined bath/bidet/basin wastes.
There was always an external stack vent pipe but BC wanted it extended
because there was a conflict with the nearest openable window.

--
Tim Lamb

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
It's kinda a bit after the fact - but I wonder if anyone would mind
seeing if they agree with my interpretation of Floplast's instructions.

Some other comments on AAVs...

They do occasionally jam open, so you need to have relatively easy
access to pop it off the top to clean the cobwebs out or to replace
it, so don't leave it fixed behind walls/panels which make it
inaccessible without destroying decorations.

The one fitted to the farmhouse by our builders gave a lot of trouble. I
think linked to draining hot bath water. The replacement is trouble free
(25 years).

Another comment is that the vent pipe doesn't need to be full soil
stack diameter providing soil stack is no higher than first floor.
It can be reduced to what works out to be standard gutter downpipe
size (which I can't recall offhand). Maybe that allows you to extend
it up to open outside rather than using an AAV?


--
Tim Lamb