Hi all,

Only just found out about this type, which the manufacturers claim
require no plastic plug. It seems you just drive them naked into stuff
like breeze blocks and whatnot (still have to drill a pilot hole though).

Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!

Ta.

On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 13:10:39 +0000, Chris wrote:

Hi all,

Only just found out about this type, which the manufacturers claim
require no plastic plug. It seems you just drive them naked into stuff
like breeze blocks and whatnot (still have to drill a pilot hole
though).

Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!

Some of those came with a keysafe I fitted a while ago.

They worked surprisingly well.

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On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 13:43:29 +0000, Bob Eager wrote:

Some of those came with a keysafe I fitted a while ago.

They worked surprisingly well.

I'll bet they made a fuggin' 'orrible & deeply unsettling scraping noise
as you screwed 'em in!
Seriously though, I've never heard of them.




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On 08/09/2018 14:10, Chris wrote:

Hi all,

Only just found out about this type, which the manufacturers claim
require no plastic plug. It seems you just drive them naked into stuff
like breeze blocks and whatnot (still have to drill a pilot hole though).

Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!

Ta.

I've used them for wall anchors for scaffolding. They are very firm and
won't pull out as long as the masonry is good. Pilot hole has to be the
right size. When fully in you shouldn't be able to turn them further at
all. If you can the masonry is too soft.

Bill

I have used them many times and they do hold well. The first time was to fasten a post socket to a concrete drive way only removed them last year after about 4 years and the socket was well bolted down no movement in the socket or bolts. They are a fix once device and will eventually destroy the threads they create if repeatedly removed from the hole but having said that the previously mentioned socket was fixed to a sloping drive and needed packing underneath to level it this meant loosening the screws a couple of times but they did go back tight and as I said were still holding well 4 years later.

I have used some recently to secure a newel post to a stone wall and again the fixing is solid, I will be fixing another post to a stonewall next week and will use concrete bolts again. I would recommend using the hex bolt type as they can get tough to drive in the last few turns but a good impact driver will have no problems driving Torx head versions. One other hint, clean out as much of the dust as possible out of the drilled hole and drill a deeper hole than required. I also had to fix a post socket to a 900 X 600 X 50 concrete flag, some of the holes were about 50mm from the edge but there was no break away.

Richard

On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 13:10:39 -0000 (UTC), Chris
wrote:


Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!

On solid concrete and brick they are very secure, on foam concrete the
material is too friable . The drill must be the correct size and the
hole drilled must be good - no wobbly drilling - so SDS is preferable
to masonry drills. They work by having a parallel, not tapering,
shaft with broad very hard wings which dig into the material being
drilled. Screwing the bigger sizes in by hand in is quite hard work.

On 08/09/2018 14:10, Chris wrote:

Hi all,

Only just found out about this type, which the manufacturers claim
require no plastic plug. It seems you just drive them naked into stuff
like breeze blocks and whatnot (still have to drill a pilot hole though).

Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!

Ta.

There are (at least) two types, one which looks a bit like a beefy
modern type screw, and the Multi Monti which has a distinct cylindrical
core and an external thread a bit like a helter skelter (without an
outside wall).

The latter are superb; you do need to drill a pilot hole of the right
diameter, but you can use them down to about half an inch from the edge
of a brick. Also, they can be removed and replaced a limited number of
times.

The other type needs a pilot hole into ordinary concrete blocks, but
will drive into lightweight blocks (just not too near to the edge).

On 08/09/2018 15:47, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 13:10:39 -0000 (UTC), Chris
wrote:


Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!

On solid concrete and brick they are very secure, on foam concrete the
material is too friable . The drill must be the correct size and the
hole drilled must be good - no wobbly drilling - so SDS is preferable
to masonry drills. They work by having a parallel, not tapering,
shaft with broad very hard wings which dig into the material being
drilled. Screwing the bigger sizes in by hand in is quite hard work.

That's the Multi Monti. But there is another more screw-like type.

newshound Wrote in message:
On 08/09/2018 15:47, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 13:10:39 -0000 (UTC), Chris
wrote:


Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!

On solid concrete and brick they are very secure, on foam concrete the
material is too friable . The drill must be the correct size and the
hole drilled must be good - no wobbly drilling - so SDS is preferable
to masonry drills. They work by having a parallel, not tapering,
shaft with broad very hard wings which dig into the material being
drilled. Screwing the bigger sizes in by hand in is quite hard work.

That's the Multi Monti. But there is another more screw-like type.


Concrete screws.
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On 08/09/2018 15:47, Peter Parry wrote:

On solid concrete and brick they are very secure, on foam concrete the
material is too friable . The drill must be the correct size and the
hole drilled must be good - no wobbly drilling - so SDS is preferable
to masonry drills. They work by having a parallel, not tapering,
shaft with broad very hard wings which dig into the material being
drilled. Screwing the bigger sizes in by hand in is quite hard work.


I've used the hex headed ones and used my socket set and ratchet drive
for the car to turn them in.

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alan_m Wrote in message:
On 08/09/2018 15:47, Peter Parry wrote:

On solid concrete and brick they are very secure, on foam concrete the
material is too friable . The drill must be the correct size and the
hole drilled must be good - no wobbly drilling - so SDS is preferable
to masonry drills. They work by having a parallel, not tapering,
shaft with broad very hard wings which dig into the material being
drilled. Screwing the bigger sizes in by hand in is quite hard work.


I've used the hex headed ones and used my socket set and ratchet drive
for the car to turn them in.


Thunder bolts!
--
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Chris wrote

Only just found out about this type, which the manufacturers claim
require no plastic plug. It seems you just drive them naked into stuff
like breeze blocks and whatnot (still have to drill a pilot hole though).

Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate
that without a ribbed plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite
into, they'd simply swivel around and never tighten up!

Its actually close to a self tapper in metal.

Chris wrote:

Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!

No the slight spiral is enough to give them bite, very strong.

On 08/09/2018 14:10, Chris wrote:

Hi all,

Only just found out about this type, which the manufacturers claim
require no plastic plug. It seems you just drive them naked into stuff
like breeze blocks and whatnot (still have to drill a pilot hole though).

Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!


I use Multi-Monti* screws without hesitation for belays when working on
the roof. AIUI they are also use routinely these days by cavers and
climbers.

*or equivalent as I think their original patent has either expired or
been worked around
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

So what are they going to be like if the usage has some side to side
varying stresses, ie fixing brackets for aerial masts etc?
Brian

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"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
I have used them many times and they do hold well. The first time was to
fasten a post socket to a concrete drive way only removed them last year
after about 4 years and the socket was well bolted down no movement in the
socket or bolts. They are a fix once device and will eventually destroy the
threads they create if repeatedly removed from the hole but having said that
the previously mentioned socket was fixed to a sloping drive and needed
packing underneath to level it this meant loosening the screws a couple of
times but they did go back tight and as I said were still holding well 4
years later.

I have used some recently to secure a newel post to a stone wall and again
the fixing is solid, I will be fixing another post to a stonewall next week
and will use concrete bolts again. I would recommend using the hex bolt type
as they can get tough to drive in the last few turns but a good impact
driver will have no problems driving Torx head versions. One other hint,
clean out as much of the dust as possible out of the drilled hole and drill
a deeper hole than required. I also had to fix a post socket to a 900 X 600
X 50 concrete flag, some of the holes were about 50mm from the edge but
there was no break away.

Richard

Brian Gaff wrote:

So what are they going to be like if the usage has some side to side
varying stresses, ie fixing brackets for aerial masts etc?

I've used them for a satellite dish mount, no problems

Brian Gaff wrote

So what are they going to be like if the usage has some side to side
varying stresses, ie fixing brackets for aerial masts etc?

Works fine in that situation.

"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
I have used them many times and they do hold well. The first time was to
fasten a post socket to a concrete drive way only removed them last year
after about 4 years and the socket was well bolted down no movement in the
socket or bolts. They are a fix once device and will eventually destroy
the threads they create if repeatedly removed from the hole but having
said that the previously mentioned socket was fixed to a sloping drive and
needed packing underneath to level it this meant loosening the screws a
couple of times but they did go back tight and as I said were still
holding well 4 years later.

I have used some recently to secure a newel post to a stone wall and again
the fixing is solid, I will be fixing another post to a stonewall next
week and will use concrete bolts again. I would recommend using the hex
bolt type as they can get tough to drive in the last few turns but a good
impact driver will have no problems driving Torx head versions. One other
hint, clean out as much of the dust as possible out of the drilled hole
and drill a deeper hole than required. I also had to fix a post socket to
a 900 X 600 X 50 concrete flag, some of the holes were about 50mm from the
edge but there was no break away.

Richard

On Sun, 9 Sep 2018 09:26:48 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

So what are they going to be like if the usage has some side to side
varying stresses, ie fixing brackets for aerial masts etc?
Brian

Generally fine, they tighten very firmly with no movement once tight.
The only one I've ever seen come loose had been used by someone who
didn't fully tighten the fitting so the movement of the mast it was
supporting started to loosen the fixing. Even then it slowly became
loose rather than falling out. People realised it was loose from the
rattling noise in high winds. The "quick fix" of fully tightening it
was still working several years later.

On 08/09/2018 21:46, Robin wrote:
On 08/09/2018 14:10, Chris wrote:

Hi all,

Only just found out about this type, which the manufacturers claim
require no plastic plug. It seems you just drive them naked into stuff
like breeze blocks and whatnot (still have to drill a pilot hole though).

Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!


I use Multi-Monti* screws without hesitation for belays when working on
the roof.Â* AIUI they are also use routinely these days by cavers and
climbers.

*or equivalent as I think their original patent has either expired or
been worked around

There seem to be two or three very similar designs in SF etc.

As someone else pointed out, the "parallel shank" ones tend to have hex
heads, the slightly tapered ones countersunk heads with torx drive.

On 08/09/2018 14:10, Chris wrote:

Hi all,

Only just found out about this type, which the manufacturers claim
require no plastic plug. It seems you just drive them naked into stuff
like breeze blocks and whatnot (still have to drill a pilot hole though).

Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!

Ta.

I've used Lightning Bolts from Toolsatan for years, fixing awning
brackets & ledger plates for decking (10 x 100 or 75).

They work great in concrete & brick but aren't good for block. Rule of
thumb - if I can see the brick I use them, if it's rendered I use resin
anchors.

To get them really tight I use a socket & 15" breaker bar. Incredible
fixing.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman

On 08/09/2018 14:10, Chris wrote:

Hi all,

Only just found out about this type, which the manufacturers claim
require no plastic plug. It seems you just drive them naked into stuff
like breeze blocks and whatnot (still have to drill a pilot hole though).

Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!

Ta.


The big benefit is that they don't expand, so you can use them near
edges & corners of bricks & they won't crack it.

--
Dave
The Medway Handyman

On 08/09/2018 15:47, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 8 Sep 2018 13:10:39 -0000 (UTC), Chris
wrote:


Anyone used these? Common sense seems to indicate that without a ribbed
plastic sleeve/liner/plug to bite into, they'd simply swivel around and
never tighten up!

On solid concrete and brick they are very secure, on foam concrete the
material is too friable . The drill must be the correct size and the
hole drilled must be good - no wobbly drilling - so SDS is preferable
to masonry drills. They work by having a parallel, not tapering,
shaft with broad very hard wings which dig into the material being
drilled. Screwing the bigger sizes in by hand in is quite hard work.
10mm ones I use a lot need a 15" breaker bar on the socket!

--
Dave
The Medway Handyman

On 08/09/2018 19:07, Jim K wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 08/09/2018 15:47, Peter Parry wrote:

On solid concrete and brick they are very secure, on foam concrete the
material is too friable . The drill must be the correct size and the
hole drilled must be good - no wobbly drilling - so SDS is preferable
to masonry drills. They work by having a parallel, not tapering,
shaft with broad very hard wings which dig into the material being
drilled. Screwing the bigger sizes in by hand in is quite hard work.


I've used the hex headed ones and used my socket set and ratchet drive
for the car to turn them in.


Thunder bolts!

Now called Lightning Bolts for some reason?

--
Dave
The Medway Handyman

On Sun, 09 Sep 2018 17:21:17 +0100, TMH wrote:

They work great in concrete & brick but aren't good for block. Rule of
thumb - if I can see the brick I use them, if it's rendered I use resin
anchors.

What's a resin anchor and what makes it so effective in render?

On 09/09/18 19:47, Chris wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2018 17:21:17 +0100, TMH wrote:

They work great in concrete & brick but aren't good for block. Rule of
thumb - if I can see the brick I use them, if it's rendered I use resin
anchors.

What's a resin anchor and what makes it so effective in render?

essentially car body filler

Its a glue that can hold loose stuff together as well as providing an A1
screw insert.


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TMH Wrote in message:
On 08/09/2018 19:07, Jim K wrote:
alan_m Wrote in message:
On 08/09/2018 15:47, Peter Parry wrote:

On solid concrete and brick they are very secure, on foam concrete the
material is too friable . The drill must be the correct size and the
hole drilled must be good - no wobbly drilling - so SDS is preferable
to masonry drills. They work by having a parallel, not tapering,
shaft with broad very hard wings which dig into the material being
drilled. Screwing the bigger sizes in by hand in is quite hard work.


I've used the hex headed ones and used my socket set and ratchet drive
for the car to turn them in.


Thunder bolts!

Now called Lightning Bolts for some reason?


The dance of the lawyers trademarks?

How ya doing Dave?
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----Android NewsGroup Reader----
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On 09/09/2018 19:47, Chris wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2018 17:21:17 +0100, TMH wrote:

They work great in concrete & brick but aren't good for block. Rule of
thumb - if I can see the brick I use them, if it's rendered I use resin
anchors.

What's a resin anchor and what makes it so effective in render?

The problem with fixing into a rendered wall is that you can't see what
you are drilling into, e.g. what's behind the render. You can tell what
sort of sub material by the colour of the dust but you can easily drill
into a mortar joint.

You drill a hole, inject this sort of thing;
https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Scr...+Anchor/p47918

And insert one of these;
https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Scr...al+Stud/p70719

The resin sets in 20/30 mins & the fixing is incredibly strong. No
stronger fixing is available.



--
Dave
The Medway Handyman