Something has gone amiss with the chuck on my ageing budget SDS drill (Ferm
FBH620 from Screwfix many moons ago): tools no longer twist-and-lock.

I've seen fixes online but the prospect of dismantling the chuck doesn't
really appeal. A quick test has revealed that the tool still works
perfectly well as a chisel (which has always been my main need) except for
the inconvenient fact that the bit keeps falling out.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't take my most-often-used chisel bit and
simply stick it in the chuck? A spot of Araldite or even superglue on the
very end ought to hold it, oughtn't it?

Many thanks.

On 06/08/2018 15:57, Bert Coules wrote:
Something has gone amiss with the chuck on my ageing budget SDS drill
(Ferm FBH620 from Screwfix many moons ago): tools no longer twist-and-lock.

I've seen fixes online but the prospect of dismantling the chuck doesn't
really appeal.Â* A quick test has revealed that the tool still works
perfectly well as a chisel (which has always been my main need) except
for the inconvenient fact that the bit keeps falling out.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't take my most-often-used chisel bit
and simply stick it in the chuck?Â* A spot of Araldite or even superglue
on the very end ought to hold it, oughtn't it?

Many thanks.


A 'rigid' glue may break up under vibration. Can you not remove the
chuck and get a replacement?

Brian Reay wrote:

A 'rigid' glue may break up under vibration.

True, but that would leave me no worse off than I am now and until it
happened I'd have a useable SDS chisel.

Can you not remove the chuck and get a replacement?

I did have a quick search but didn't find anything available. And actually,
with comparable brand new drills available from around £50 I think I'd
probably prefer to go down that route.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Bert Coules wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:

A 'rigid' glue may break up under vibration.

True, but that would leave me no worse off than I am now and until it
happened I'd have a useable SDS chisel.

Can you not remove the chuck and get a replacement?

I did have a quick search but didn't find anything available. And
actually, with comparable brand new drills available from around £50 I
think I'd probably prefer to go down that route.

Thanks for the thoughts.
An SDS tool has to slide in the chuck. Gluing it will be no good.

Bob Minchin wrote:

An SDS tool has to slide in the chuck. Gluing it will be no good.

I was contemplating gluing only the very end of the tool, which I hoped
would secure it to the hammer part of the mechanism. Unless the glue
spread, of course...

Bert Coules wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote:

An SDS tool has to slide in the chuck. Gluing it will be no good.

I was contemplating gluing only the very end of the tool, which I hoped
would secure it to the hammer part of the mechanism. Unless the glue
spread, of course...


I'd imagine a hard adhesive would transmit the hammer blows for a second
or so and a flexible adhesive would hold for longer but cushion the
hammer blows so i feel you are ****ing into the wind with this idea.

"Bert Coules" Wrote in message:
Brian Reay wrote:

A 'rigid' glue may break up under vibration.

True, but that would leave me no worse off than I am now and until it
happened I'd have a useable SDS chisel.


For a time period measured in minutes & seconds! ;-)

--
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Jim K


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On Tuesday, 7 August 2018 07:59:56 UTC+1, JimK wrote:
"Bert Coules" Wrote in message:
Brian Reay wrote:

A 'rigid' glue may break up under vibration.

True, but that would leave me no worse off than I am now and until it
happened I'd have a useable SDS chisel.


For a time period measured in minutes & seconds! ;-)

we'd all love to know what magic glue would survive direct SDS hammering for minutes. Even solid steel didn't survive 1 second when I tried it.

Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 7 August 2018 07:59:56 UTC+1, JimK wrote:
"Bert Coules" Wrote in message:
Brian Reay wrote:

A 'rigid' glue may break up under vibration.

True, but that would leave me no worse off than I am now and until it
happened I'd have a useable SDS chisel.


For a time period measured in minutes & seconds! ;-)

we'd all love to know what magic glue would survive direct SDS hammering for minutes. Even solid steel didn't survive 1 second when I tried it.


Minutes after you glued it, seconds when you tried to use it. Ok ****?
--
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Bert Coules wrote:

A spot of Araldite or even superglue on the very end ought to hold it,
oughtn't it?

I doubt it would hold.

Andy Burns wrote:

I doubt it would hold.

Yes, so do I really, but I thought it might be asking. The drill is useable
even with the chisel-bit loose: it's just inconvenient to have to keep
putting back in.

On 06/08/2018 15:57, Bert Coules wrote:
Something has gone amiss with the chuck on my ageing budget SDS drill
(Ferm FBH620 from Screwfix many moons ago): tools no longer twist-and-lock.

I've seen fixes online but the prospect of dismantling the chuck doesn't
really appeal.Â* A quick test has revealed that the tool still works
perfectly well as a chisel (which has always been my main need) except
for the inconvenient fact that the bit keeps falling out.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't take my most-often-used chisel bit
and simply stick it in the chuck?Â* A spot of Araldite or even superglue
on the very end ought to hold it, oughtn't it?

Many thanks.


Are you sure this is not caused by a buildup of dried grease and/or
cementatious matter from drilling? May be worth giving the chuck a good
rinse in solvent, followed by your preferred oil spray. May also need to
poke in the hole with a brush and/or jiggle any SDS bit around in the
chuck to help clear it.

"newshound" wrote:

Are you sure this is not caused by a buildup of dried grease and/or
cementatious matter from drilling? May be worth giving the chuck a good
rinse in solvent, followed by your preferred oil spray. May also need to
poke in the hole with a brush and/or jiggle any SDS bit around in the
chuck to help clear it.

I did try that in a half-hearted sort of way; I'll have another go. But the
fact that the non-locking happened suddenly and that up to then the
twist-and-lock had felt extremely smooth and positive does make me think
that something's broken or possibly misplaced. I believe that one or more
spring-loaded ball bearings are involved, is that right?

On 06/08/2018 17:29, Bert Coules wrote:
"newshound" wrote:

Are you sure this is not caused by a buildup of dried grease and/or
cementatious matter from drilling? May be worth giving the chuck a
good rinse in solvent, followed by your preferred oil spray. May also
need to poke in the hole with a brush and/or jiggle any SDS bit around
in the chuck to help clear it.

I did try that in a half-hearted sort of way; I'll have another go.Â* But
the fact that the non-locking happened suddenly and that up to then the
twist-and-lock had felt extremely smooth and positive does make me think
that something's broken or possibly misplaced.Â* I believe that one or
more spring-loaded ball bearings are involved, is that right?

Yup, if you look at the shank of the bit you can see where they sit/engage.

--
Cheers,

John.

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On 06/08/2018 15:57, Bert Coules wrote:
Something has gone amiss with the chuck on my ageing budget SDS drill
(Ferm FBH620 from Screwfix many moons ago): tools no longer twist-and-lock.

I've seen fixes online but the prospect of dismantling the chuck doesn't
really appeal.Â* A quick test has revealed that the tool still works
perfectly well as a chisel (which has always been my main need) except
for the inconvenient fact that the bit keeps falling out.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't take my most-often-used chisel bit
and simply stick it in the chuck?Â* A spot of Araldite or even superglue
on the very end ought to hold it, oughtn't it?

The thing about a SDS chuck is that it does *not* have a rigid grip on
the bit. It retains it, and stops it rotating relative the the chuck,
but it must allow it to slide in and out a bit for the hammer action to
actually work.

The sliding hammer inside the drill smacks the back of the bit - which
accelerates it forward, and the chuck lets it slide - but catches it
before it is actually ejected from the machine. If you fix the bit to
the chuck it won't work, and you can't fix it to the hammer either (it
only needs to contact the bit on the forward stroke).

So in short, you need to fix or replace the chuck, or treat yourself to
a new drill... (and a 2kg class Makita or similar will be a complete
revelation after the Ferm!)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, 6 August 2018 17:50:48 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/08/2018 15:57, Bert Coules wrote:

Something has gone amiss with the chuck on my ageing budget SDS drill
(Ferm FBH620 from Screwfix many moons ago): tools no longer twist-and-lock.

I've seen fixes online but the prospect of dismantling the chuck doesn't
really appeal.Â* A quick test has revealed that the tool still works
perfectly well as a chisel (which has always been my main need) except
for the inconvenient fact that the bit keeps falling out.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't take my most-often-used chisel bit
and simply stick it in the chuck?Â* A spot of Araldite or even superglue
on the very end ought to hold it, oughtn't it?

The thing about a SDS chuck is that it does *not* have a rigid grip on
the bit. It retains it, and stops it rotating relative the the chuck,
but it must allow it to slide in and out a bit for the hammer action to
actually work.

The sliding hammer inside the drill smacks the back of the bit - which
accelerates it forward, and the chuck lets it slide - but catches it
before it is actually ejected from the machine. If you fix the bit to
the chuck it won't work, and you can't fix it to the hammer either (it
only needs to contact the bit on the forward stroke).

well if you do it won't hammer

So in short, you need to fix or replace the chuck, or treat yourself to
a new drill... (and a 2kg class Makita or similar will be a complete
revelation after the Ferm!)

There are ways to bodge it horribly, eg elastic round the bit tied or glued to the drill, but if money's not too tight get a decent drill. I'm happy enough with a 2kg Dewalt.


NT

wrote:

There are ways to bodge it horribly, eg elastic
round the bit tied or glued to the drill...

On the part of the shank which goes into the chuck, you mean?

On Monday, 6 August 2018 21:15:36 UTC+1, Bert Coules wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:

There are ways to bodge it horribly, eg elastic
round the bit tied or glued to the drill...

On the part of the shank which goes into the chuck, you mean?

that would make no sense


NT

...that would make no sense.

As I realised immediately I posted.

John,

Thanks for all that.

(and a 2kg class Makita or similar will be a complete revelation after the
Ferm!)

In what respect? The Ferm did - everything I needed it to. It was more
than powerful enough, easy to handle, and required little maintenance. How
will a Makita or similar be better than that?

On 06/08/2018 21:14, Bert Coules wrote:
John,

Thanks for all that.

(and a 2kg class Makita or similar will be a complete revelation after
the Ferm!)

In what respect?Â* The Ferm did - everything I needed it to.Â* It was more
than powerful enough, easy to handle, and required little maintenance.

How will a Makita or similar be better than that?

IME In several ways... (although this may depend on which Ferm you have
- the early ones were very crude - the later ones slightly less so)

Firstly its lighter to hold and probably a better ergonomic design - so
less fatigue using it.

It will have a chuck that allows you to rotate a chisel bit to an
orientation of your choice and then lock it in that position. So
chiselling a straight cut is much easier, and you can also do it in any
direction while holding the drill at an comfortable angle. (many of the
cheapies allow a bit to wander in rotation when in roto stop mode)

It will have a better speed control, allowing you to chisel very gently
to start with if you need - say delicate cutting through a plaster skim
coat while edging round where you want to cut a socket back box recess.

It will run much cleaner - you just need the occasional spot of grease
on the shank of a bit (say once every twenty bit swaps), there is no
reservoir that needs refilling, and it won't gob grease over what you
are working on when it gets hot.

Other than that you get a nice long (12' - 16') rubber flex, and a motor
rated for continuous use.


--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

John,

Thanks for that.

I've had the Ferm for a few years but I certainly wouldn't describe it as
being in any way crude, so perhaps I was lucky and missed the earliest
incarnation.

The locking-orientation chuck sounds like a good refinement but since most
of the use I have for the tool is demolition than channel-cutting I think
it's something I can live without. And while the Ferm is certainly weighty
I've not found that a particular inconvenience.

The speed control does sound desirable though, as do the other improvements.

In article ,
Bert Coules wrote:
The locking-orientation chuck sounds like a good refinement but since
most of the use I have for the tool is demolition than channel-cutting
I think it's something I can live without. And while the Ferm is
certainly weighty I've not found that a particular inconvenience.

Becomes very tiring when used to chase walls over a lighter one.

In some ways, you need two. A heavy one is perhaps easier for breaking up
paths etc as the weight helps there.

--
*Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 07/08/2018 08:45, Bert Coules wrote:
John,

Thanks for that.

I've had the Ferm for a few years but I certainly wouldn't describe it
as being in any way crude, so perhaps I was lucky and missed the
earliest incarnation.

The locking-orientation chuck sounds like a good refinement but since
most of the use I have for the tool is demolition than channel-cutting I
think it's something I can live without.Â* And while the Ferm is
certainly weighty I've not found that a particular inconvenience.

Yup if all you are doing is knocking stuff down, it will be less of an
issue. I tend to use mine for things were a bit of refinement and
control make the difference between a job done well enough, and a big
ugly hole in a wall ;-)

The speed control does sound desirable though, as do the other
improvements.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/08/2018 01:01, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/08/2018 21:14, Bert Coules wrote:
John,

Thanks for all that.

(and a 2kg class Makita or similar will be a complete revelation
after the Ferm!)

In what respect?Â* The Ferm did - everything I needed it to.Â* It was
more than powerful enough, easy to handle, and required little
maintenance.

How will a Makita or similar be better than that?

IME In several ways... (although this may depend on which Ferm you have
- the early ones were very crude - the later ones slightly less so)

Firstly its lighter to hold and probably a better ergonomic design - so
less fatigue using it.

It will have a chuck that allows you to rotate a chisel bit to an
orientation of your choice and then lock it in that position. So
chiselling a straight cut is much easier, and you can also do it in any
direction while holding the drill at an comfortable angle. (many of the
cheapies allow a bit to wander in rotation when in roto stop mode)

It will have a better speed control, allowing you to chisel very gently
to start with if you need - say delicate cutting through a plaster skim
coat while edging round where you want to cut a socket back box recess.

It will run much cleaner - you just need the occasional spot of grease
on the shank of a bit (say once every twenty bit swaps), there is no
reservoir that needs refilling, and it won't gob grease over what you
are working on when it gets hot.

Other than that you get a nice long (12' - 16') rubber flex, and a motor
rated for continuous use.



Horses for courses, though, my ancient Ferm SDS was a fraction of the
price of a Makita. No chuck lock as you say, but long rubber flex and it
appears to have a continuous rated motor. I do, generally, buy more up
market tools these days but I reckon the Ferm is OK for "building site"
type jobs.

"newshound" wrote:

Horses for courses...

If I decide to replace the Ferm I'll go for another budget model, probably
from Screwfix again. For my (mainly demolition-based) purposes I really
don't need anything more high-end than that.

You think?
Well good luck with that one, all that vibration and odd angular stresses.
Brian

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"Bert Coules" wrote in message
news
Something has gone amiss with the chuck on my ageing budget SDS drill
(Ferm FBH620 from Screwfix many moons ago): tools no longer
twist-and-lock.

I've seen fixes online but the prospect of dismantling the chuck doesn't
really appeal. A quick test has revealed that the tool still works
perfectly well as a chisel (which has always been my main need) except for
the inconvenient fact that the bit keeps falling out.

Is there any reason why I shouldn't take my most-often-used chisel bit and
simply stick it in the chuck? A spot of Araldite or even superglue on the
very end ought to hold it, oughtn't it?

Many thanks.

Brian Gaff wrote:

You think?

Well, not any longer!

on 06/08/2018, Bert Coules supposed :
Is there any reason why I shouldn't take my most-often-used chisel bit and
simply stick it in the chuck? A spot of Araldite or even superglue on the
very end ought to hold it, oughtn't it?

It will not work for two reasons...
1. Any rigid glue will rapidly break up with the vibration.
2. The chuck has to allow the bit to move inside the chuck, to hammer
it. Rigid= no hammer action.