A neighbour's front door can't be locked(1) - the key goes in easily but
won't turn.
I have spare cylinders of the right size (not available from the sheds, TS,
SF etc.) from when I changed my locks (aftter v. useful advice here).
It's be nice to get the old lock out without damage to the door (uPVC). I
could look at some videos of bumping and snapping but, knowing my luck,
something would go wrong. With the handles removed there's plenty of lock on
the inside to grip, if it does come to snapping. The locks aren't high
quality and are about 27 years old, so not too secure.

(1) atm the outside handle is jammed horizontal with a wedge of cardboard so
that it looks OK. The inside handle is in a position to allow the door to be
opened in an emergency but not far enough in for the outside handle to
operate.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Fri, 03 Aug 2018 22:40:15 +0100, PeterC wrote:

I could look at some videos of bumping and snapping

Doesn't this work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9A915L_mlk

--
TOJ.

On 03/08/2018 23:08, The Other John wrote:
Doesn't this work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9A915L_mlk

That was my first thought then I realised if the lock wont turn he will
be unable to line up the cam to extract it

On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 07:27:12 +0100, ss wrote:

On 03/08/2018 23:08, The Other John wrote:
Doesn't this work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9A915L_mlk

That was my first thought then I realised if the lock wont turn he will
be unable to line up the cam to extract it

Exactly - that's why I need another method.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 04/08/2018 08:02, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 07:27:12 +0100, ss wrote:

On 03/08/2018 23:08, The Other John wrote:
Doesn't this work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9A915L_mlk

That was my first thought then I realised if the lock wont turn he will
be unable to line up the cam to extract it

Exactly - that's why I need another method.


I would try lubricant/woggling/thumping etc you may just manage to
unstick it. If all else fails I would drill out rather than snap it as
drilling will only damage the lock, snapping can cause damage to doors
and handles.

If an old lock it should drill easily enough. Video clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TInAnqJbtx8

On 04/08/2018 08:32, ss wrote:
On 04/08/2018 08:02, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 07:27:12 +0100, ss wrote:

On 03/08/2018 23:08, The Other John wrote:
Doesn't this work?

Â*Â*Â* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9A915L_mlk

That was my first thought then I realised if the lock wont turn he will
be unable to line up the cam to extract it

Exactly - that's why I need another method.


I would try lubricant/woggling/thumping etc you may just manage to
unstick it. If all else fails I would drill out rather than snap it as
drilling will only damage the lock, snapping can cause damage to doors
and handles.


Just IME of one cheap lock, snapping using large mole grips was very
easy. Just grip and snap, not much force.


--
Cheers, Rob

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 22:40:15 +0100, PeterC wrote:

I could look at some videos of bumping and snapping but, knowing my luck,
something would go wrong. With the handles removed there's plenty of lock on
the inside to grip, if it does come to snapping. The locks aren't high
quality and are about 27 years old, so not too secure.

6mm drill at the bottom of the key slot, i.e. where round turning part and
Euro-profile part meet. Drills out the pins. Insert screwdriver in mangle
remains and turn. On a standard brass cylinder you will spend more time cleaning
up the swarf and metal bits than drilling and opening.

Snapping might bend stuff you want to reuse?



Thomas Prufer

In article , PeterC
wrote:
A neighbour's front door can't be locked(1) - the key goes in easily but
won't turn.

Are you, or is he, certain it's the right key?



I have spare cylinders of the right size (not available from the sheds,
TS, SF etc.) from when I changed my locks (aftter v. useful advice here).
It's be nice to get the old lock out without damage to the door (uPVC). I
could look at some videos of bumping and snapping but, knowing my luck,
something would go wrong. With the handles removed there's plenty of lock
on the inside to grip, if it does come to snapping. The locks aren't high
quality and are about 27 years old, so not too secure.

can't you just remove the whole lock, once the handle shaft has been
withdrawn?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 04/08/2018 11:05, charles wrote:
can't you just remove the whole lock, once the handle shaft has been
withdrawn?

Its needs to have the cam lined up to remove it which he cant do as the
lock wont turn.

On Sat, 04 Aug 2018 10:42:24 +0200, Thomas Prufer wrote:

On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 22:40:15 +0100, PeterC wrote:

I could look at some videos of bumping and snapping but, knowing my luck,
something would go wrong. With the handles removed there's plenty of lock on
the inside to grip, if it does come to snapping. The locks aren't high
quality and are about 27 years old, so not too secure.

6mm drill at the bottom of the key slot, i.e. where round turning part and
Euro-profile part meet. Drills out the pins. Insert screwdriver in mangle
remains and turn. On a standard brass cylinder you will spend more time cleaning
up the swarf and metal bits than drilling and opening.

Snapping might bend stuff you want to reuse?

Thomas Prufer

Well, I've considered drilling, snapping and bumping (in descending order of
damage). A chap from a couple of doors down said AG! - he's a builder, so
his idea of an AG might not be the same as ours.
The lock is a cheap one and I've already supplied 2 locks of the same sort,
complete with keys, so destroying the old one doesn't matter.

Off to look at vids.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

In article ,
ss wrote:
On 04/08/2018 11:05, charles wrote:
can't you just remove the whole lock, once the handle shaft has been
withdrawn?

Its needs to have the cam lined up to remove it which he cant do as the
lock wont turn.

not on the ones I've met.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

charles wrote:
In article , PeterC
wrote:
A neighbour's front door can't be locked(1) - the key goes in easily but
won't turn.

Are you, or is he, certain it's the right key?



I have spare cylinders of the right size (not available from the sheds,
TS, SF etc.) from when I changed my locks (aftter v. useful advice here).
It's be nice to get the old lock out without damage to the door (uPVC). I
could look at some videos of bumping and snapping but, knowing my luck,
something would go wrong. With the handles removed there's plenty of lock
on the inside to grip, if it does come to snapping. The locks aren't high
quality and are about 27 years old, so not too secure.

can't you just remove the whole lock, once the handle shaft has been
withdrawn?

No it wont come out til the lock cylinder is removed,and if neither end
will turn to align the cam someone clever or a locksmith is needed.

On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 08:32:03 +0100, ss wrote:

On 04/08/2018 08:02, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 07:27:12 +0100, ss wrote:

On 03/08/2018 23:08, The Other John wrote:
Doesn't this work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9A915L_mlk

That was my first thought then I realised if the lock wont turn he will
be unable to line up the cam to extract it

Exactly - that's why I need another method.


I would try lubricant/woggling/thumping etc you may just manage to
unstick it. If all else fails I would drill out rather than snap it as
drilling will only damage the lock, snapping can cause damage to doors
and handles.

If an old lock it should drill easily enough. Video clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TInAnqJbtx8

Well, tried lube/waggling, no effect, so did the same to the lock and that
was the same ;-)
Tried snapping, but nobody had locking grips that were big enough.
Tried using an over-long key and tapping it whilst trying to turn it - works
on You Tube but not in Real Life.
I've watched the vid. in the link above - thanks for that. Main comment: not
sure about using a drill bit as a centre punch but if it works...
Anyway, drilling next.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sunday, 5 August 2018 08:02:50 UTC+1, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 08:32:03 +0100, ss wrote:
On 04/08/2018 08:02, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 07:27:12 +0100, ss wrote:
On 03/08/2018 23:08, The Other John wrote:

Doesn't this work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9A915L_mlk

That was my first thought then I realised if the lock wont turn he will
be unable to line up the cam to extract it

Exactly - that's why I need another method.


I would try lubricant/woggling/thumping etc you may just manage to
unstick it. If all else fails I would drill out rather than snap it as
drilling will only damage the lock, snapping can cause damage to doors
and handles.

If an old lock it should drill easily enough. Video clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TInAnqJbtx8

Well, tried lube/waggling, no effect, so did the same to the lock and that
was the same ;-)
Tried snapping, but nobody had locking grips that were big enough.
Tried using an over-long key and tapping it whilst trying to turn it - works
on You Tube but not in Real Life.
I've watched the vid. in the link above - thanks for that. Main comment: not
sure about using a drill bit as a centre punch but if it works...
Anyway, drilling next.

probably a bad idea but I wonder if passing welder current through it for seconds might just free it.


NT

On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 03:39:14 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Well, tried lube/waggling, no effect, so did the same to the lock and that
was the same ;-)
Tried snapping, but nobody had locking grips that were big enough.
Tried using an over-long key and tapping it whilst trying to turn it - works
on You Tube but not in Real Life.
I've watched the vid. in the link above - thanks for that. Main comment: not
sure about using a drill bit as a centre punch but if it works...
Anyway, drilling next.

probably a bad idea but I wonder if passing welder current through it for seconds might just free it.

That's a bit drastic! I'll try drilling first - when it's cooler. The sun is
full on the glazed door for a lot of the day.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Would wiggleing the locking bar cause something to loosen up?

On 03/08/2018 22:40, PeterC wrote:
A neighbour's front door can't be locked(1) - the key goes in easily but
won't turn.
I have spare cylinders of the right size (not available from the sheds, TS,
SF etc.) from when I changed my locks (aftter v. useful advice here).
It's be nice to get the old lock out without damage to the door (uPVC). I
could look at some videos of bumping and snapping but, knowing my luck,
something would go wrong. With the handles removed there's plenty of lock on
the inside to grip, if it does come to snapping. The locks aren't high
quality and are about 27 years old, so not too secure.

(1) atm the outside handle is jammed horizontal with a wedge of cardboard so
that it looks OK. The inside handle is in a position to allow the door to be
opened in an emergency but not far enough in for the outside handle to
operate.



Once you've removed the screw that goes in from the side, they normally
slide out IF the lock operates and you can ensure the drive tab (the bit
that actually protrudes from the cylinder as the key is turned) can be
aligned with the body.

If yours is stuck, either the drive tab isn't aligned or the cylinder
is corroded to the rest of the mechanism.

If it is corroded, a gentle(ish) tap should move it.

If the tap isn't lined up, brute force may damage the rest of the
mechanism. I'd be tempted to drill and try to wriggle the drive tap,
once the cylinder can be rotated.

On Sun, 05 Aug 2018 17:00:16 GMT, DerbyBorn wrote:

Would wiggleing the locking bar cause something to loosen up?

We've wiggled everything in all directions and no luck.
I stopped one attack because the chap about to try it didn't realise that it
would dammage the actuating mech. - probably deform the case.
It's lucky that I've stripped, cleaned and lubed mine several times since
'91, so I know how it works. It has been about 6 - 7 years since last done,
I've just realised. My front door faces SW and gets rather a lot of weather
so I like to look at it before there's a problem.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

PeterC Wrote in message:
On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 08:32:03 +0100, ss wrote:

On 04/08/2018 08:02, PeterC wrote:
On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 07:27:12 +0100, ss wrote:

On 03/08/2018 23:08, The Other John wrote:
Doesn't this work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9A915L_mlk

That was my first thought then I realised if the lock wont turn he will
be unable to line up the cam to extract it

Exactly - that's why I need another method.


I would try lubricant/woggling/thumping etc you may just manage to
unstick it. If all else fails I would drill out rather than snap it as
drilling will only damage the lock, snapping can cause damage to doors
and handles.

If an old lock it should drill easily enough. Video clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TInAnqJbtx8

Well, tried lube/waggling, no effect, so did the same to the lock and that
was the same ;-)
Tried snapping, but nobody had locking grips that were big enough.

? How big do you need?
Scrotes manage to conceal them about there cheap tracksuits...

Large adjustable spanner? Stilson?

You have removed the handles haven't you?

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Sun, 5 Aug 2018 08:02:49 +0100, PeterC wrote:

On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 08:32:03 +0100, ss wrote:

If an old lock it should drill easily enough. Video clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TInAnqJbtx8

Well, tried lube/waggling, no effect, so did the same to the lock and that
was the same ;-)
Tried snapping, but nobody had locking grips that were big enough.
Tried using an over-long key and tapping it whilst trying to turn it - works
on You Tube but not in Real Life.
I've watched the vid. in the link above - thanks for that. Main comment: not
sure about using a drill bit as a centre punch but if it works...
Anyway, drilling next.

OK, update: followed the video re. drilling. Started off in the centre, went
well until the first pin then the bit was deflected to one side.
Tried a cobalt bit - polished the pin! Although the locks were fitted in
'91, so I expected them to be easy, it was a German company based in Lincoln
(Stern Fenster), so possibly the locks were pretty good.

Cut off the lock as close to the door as I dare, using a hacksaw with the
blade at 90 deg. to the frame - still wouldn't turn as one pin remained. As
I was following the vid I'd tried to turn it with a screwdriver, then
realised that with only one pin left almost any key would do it - and it
did!
Tried new lock, still wouldn't turn - ****!
Took out the mech. and found that the bit what should have been operated by
the handle to allow the lock to operate wasn't moving correctly. Closer look
showed a small, square-section piece of black metal flopping around. So, a
broken spring.
Seems that a new mech. is the only way to fix it and that's about £44 :-(
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Seems that a new mech. is the only way to fix it and that's about £44
:-(

Worth it.

On 12/08/2018 20:10, DerbyBorn wrote:
Seems that a new mech. is the only way to fix it and that's about £44
:-(
Worth it.

Yes worth it but if time allows could you possibly get a replacement spring?

On Sun, 12 Aug 2018 20:29:51 +0100, ss wrote:

On 12/08/2018 20:10, DerbyBorn wrote:
Seems that a new mech. is the only way to fix it and that's about £44
:-(
Worth it.

Yes worth it but if time allows could you possibly get a replacement spring?

Doubt it. The whole mech. is 'riveted' together and the 'rivets' are
actually the shafts for all the moving bits.
There's also the high potential for a multiple pin****it. As the whole thing
is north of 6' long and rather oily/greasy I'd need to do it in the shed or
outside (weather allowing - typical British summer, always raining!), so any
flying bits would be lost.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

In article ,
says...

Doubt it. The whole mech. is 'riveted' together and the 'rivets' are
actually the shafts for all the moving bits.
There's also the high potential for a multiple pin****it. As the whole thing
is north of 6' long and rather oily/greasy I'd need to do it in the shed or
outside (weather allowing - typical British summer, always raining!), so any
flying bits would be lost.

You should be able to get the lock on it's own without the locking rods.
Search for 'centre case'
Good luck!

Cheers, Jim

On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 14:57:22 +0100, Jim White wrote:

In article ,
says...

Doubt it. The whole mech. is 'riveted' together and the 'rivets' are
actually the shafts for all the moving bits.
There's also the high potential for a multiple pin****it. As the whole thing
is north of 6' long and rather oily/greasy I'd need to do it in the shed or
outside (weather allowing - typical British summer, always raining!), so any
flying bits would be lost.

You should be able to get the lock on it's own without the locking rods.
Search for 'centre case'
Good luck!

Cheers, Jim

Thanks for that - I'd never have guessed the term.
Found a couple, but one was the same price as the whole thing and the other
was a few quid cheaper but ex-VAT.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Sun, 12 Aug 2018 15:20:07 +0100, PeterC wrote:

OK, update: followed the video re. drilling. Started off in the centre, went
well until the first pin then the bit was deflected to one side.
Tried a cobalt bit - polished the pin! Although the locks were fitted in
'91, so I expected them to be easy, it was a German company based in Lincoln
(Stern Fenster), so possibly the locks were pretty good.

Cut off the lock as close to the door as I dare, using a hacksaw with the
blade at 90 deg. to the frame - still wouldn't turn as one pin remained. As
I was following the vid I'd tried to turn it with a screwdriver, then
realised that with only one pin left almost any key would do it - and it
did!
Tried new lock, still wouldn't turn - ****!
Took out the mech. and found that the bit what should have been operated by
the handle to allow the lock to operate wasn't moving correctly. Closer look
showed a small, square-section piece of black metal flopping around. So, a
broken spring.
Seems that a new mech. is the only way to fix it and that's about £44 :-(

Finally done! Having managed to remove the lock, as above, she finally
settled for buying a new complete assembly. Also needed some keeps as 2 were
for mushroom pegs and the new ones are all roller.
Took some time to get roundtuit as she works some shifts.
Today, cut the new assembly to length, had great fun with the keeps as the
new ones are thicker, so had to place them where there was about 0.5 mm
clearance.
Several more holes of course, just managed to skew a couple of screws to
avoid new holes close to old ones (one area had 6 holes already!).
Repaired the handles on the other door.
All now works properly, so now she needs another 2 keys per door.
Whole lot cost £55.10 - I settled for £55 with 10p discount for cash.
Phew!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway