In article ,
Chris Green wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...olen-safety-UK

If the car has keyless entry, and you leave the key in the hallway, it's
probably out of range as far as the car is concerned, but the crooks can
put a transceiver midway between the car and house and gain entry then
start the car, sort out another key at their leisure ...

Our cars need a transducer in the key fob to be present in the car for
them to start. So there are two 'layers' of security, firstly you
need to transmit the required code from the key fob to open the car
doors, then the transducer (presumably passive) in the keyfob needs to
be present in the car for the immobiliser to allow you to start the car.

And, of course the key itself. So actually three levels.

But your type only transmits when the button is pressed. All that probably
does is just unlock the car. The chip in the key disables the immobiliser
when the key is put in the ignition switch.

Keyless entry - such an essential thing to have ;-) - transmits all the
time. When the transmitter is in range the car opens. I assume these code
readers are somewhat more sensitive than the receiver in the car.

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Dave Plowman (News) was thinking very hard :
Keyless entry - such an essential thing to have ;-) - transmits all the
time. When the transmitter is in range the car opens. I assume these code
readers are somewhat more sensitive than the receiver in the car.

If you are suggesting that the key transmits all the time, think about
it and how much battery that might need. They transmit, or more
correctly respond only when intergated by the car.

On 14/07/2018 20:02, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) was thinking very hard :
Keyless entry - such an essential thing to have ;-) - transmits all the
time. When the transmitter is in range the car opens. I assume these code
readers are somewhat more sensitive than the receiver in the car.

If you are suggesting that the key transmits all the time, think about
it and how much battery that might need. They transmit, or more
correctly respond only when intergated by the car.

The car transmits all the time and the key responds when it receives a
request from the car, so little power drain.

Normally the fob muust be pretty close to the car and it might well be
possible to power it from the signal it receives.

SteveW

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Keyless entry - such an essential thing to have ;-) - transmits all the
time. When the transmitter is in range the car opens. I assume these code
readers are somewhat more sensitive than the receiver in the car.

I hadn't realised the keyless entry unlocks the car automatically as soon as
you get within range. I thought you still have to consciously press a
button, to give you control over when you unlocked it. There are many times
when there are dodgy-looking people around and I wouldn't want to unlock the
doors (preferably just the driver's door) for any longer than I had to.

I can understand you wanting the car to start as soon as you press the
button on the dashboard, but not that one would want the car to unlock
itself as soon as you get within range. Is it something that is
user-configurable - whether the doors unlock automatically or whether you
still need to press a unlock button as with a normal central-locking key.

My car's central locking has a very useful feature which I've not seen on
other makes (though I've not tried many). If you press the lock button as
you approach the car, it flashes the car's indicators so you can find it in
a car park. It remains locked until you press the unlock button. On other
cars it's necessary to do a quick unlock-lock to make it flash the
indicators for locating the car, which is a little less secure.

NY submitted this idea :
My car's central locking has a very useful feature which I've not seen on
other makes (though I've not tried many). If you press the lock button as you
approach the car, it flashes the car's indicators so you can find it in a car
park. It remains locked until you press the unlock button. On other cars it's
necessary to do a quick unlock-lock to make it flash the indicators for
locating the car, which is a little less secure.

Every car I have had since remote locking appeared, has flashed its
indicators to confirm lock and a different pattern for unlock.
Many/most also make a bleep too. Mine doesn't, the idea being such
noise can annoy people late at night. Mine bleeps only when there is a
mislock, a door, boot or bonnet not properly closed.

On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 20:07:25 +0100, NY wrote:

I can understand you wanting the car to start as soon as you press the
button on the dashboard, but not that one would want the car to unlock
itself as soon as you get within range. Is it something that is
user-configurable - whether the doors unlock automatically or whether
you still need to press a unlock button as with a normal central-locking
key.

My car unlocks when you touch the inner part of a door handle, as long as
the key is within a metre of the car.

The engine won't start unless the key is physically inside the car.

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"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...olen-safety-UK

If the car has keyless entry, and you leave the key in the hallway, it's
probably out of range as far as the car is concerned, but the crooks can
put a transceiver midway between the car and house and gain entry then
start the car, sort out another key at their leisure ...

Not with a rolling code system they can't.

Jack James wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

the
crooks can put a transceiver midway between the car and house and gain
entry then start the car, sort out another key at their leisure ...

Not with a rolling code system they can't.

The transceiver isn't emulating a key, it is boosting the key's own
signal to fool the car into thinking the key is closer than it is, so
yes they can.

Maybe the crimmos down under haven't figured it out yet ...

Andy Burns Wrote in message:
Jack James wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

the
crooks can put a transceiver midway between the car and house and gain
entry then start the car, sort out another key at their leisure ...

Not with a rolling code system they can't.

The transceiver isn't emulating a key, it is boosting the key's own
signal to fool the car into thinking the key is closer than it is, so
yes they can.

Maybe the crimmos down under haven't figured it out yet ...


Corrugated tin shed/house Faraday cages!
damn they think of everything!
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On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 09:08:57 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

snip

Maybe the crimmos down under haven't figured it out yet ...

I have watch some of those Police down under TV shows and I love the
way they have so many / alternative words that end in 'o'.

The most blatant being 'Bottle-o' ... and 'rego', 'servo' and 'ambo'
plus the others that don't but are possibly unique to Auz like
'carby', 'bingle' 'troppo' and 'ute'.

The funny thing is hearing their Cops use such terms. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 09:08:57 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

snip

Maybe the crimmos down under haven't figured it out yet ...

I have watch some of those Police down under TV shows and I love the
way they have so many / alternative words that end in 'o'.

The most blatant being 'Bottle-o' ... and 'rego', 'servo' and 'ambo'

Same with peoples names too, tommo, davo, robbo, johno, speedo etc.

plus the others that don't but are possibly unique to Auz like
'carby', 'bingle' 'troppo' and 'ute'.

And pom, pov, leso etc.

The funny thing is hearing their Cops use such terms. ;-)

One of the earlier reality TV series had the cops in their
cars being recorded. One hell of a political stink about
them dropping the f bomb every second sentence but
charging members of the public when doing that.

On Saturday, 14 July 2018 14:46:06 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...olen-safety-UK

How can a key wrapped in tinfoil even open a car?


--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On Saturday, 14 July 2018 14:46:06 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...olen-safety-UK

How can a key wrapped in tinfoil even open a car?


--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 14 July 2018 14:46:06 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...olen-safety-UK

How can a key wrapped in tinfoil even open a car?


I've just done some experiments with my keyless Toyota and key. The way this
normally works is that the key has to be within nominally a metre of the
door to be opened, and then touching the inside of the handle will unlock
the car. To re-lock you touch a different marked part of the handle. In
practice the distance at which it stops working is about 1.6 metres - for me
full arms stretch with the key in one hand, and touching the door handle
with the other.

I tried wrapping the key in aluminium foil, and one layer fully wrapped with
no gaps stops it working completely, however close the key.
I then put the key in a small tin (steel) box with a tight fitting lid - for
size it had previously contained a bar of soap. This, surprisingly, had no
effect at all, and the maximum range of working was to all intent and
purposes the same.

I think it's reasonable to assume that the box reduced signal strength at
the key at least to an extent, so the implication is that the maximum
working distance is set by another parameter - timing of handshaking between
car and key perhaps? If that's true, then keeping the key well away from the
outside walls of the house should, on this car at least, stop the bridge
scanner system working.

Thoughts on this?

One reassuring thing is that although this is a nice car that I like, it
probably isn't on the shopping list for thieves with the technology to steal
it!

Charles F




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