On 14/07/2018 11:06, Bert Coules wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

I would definitely recommend trying an ID
and having a practice with it for a bit.

I see the advantage of course, but I suspect that the cost of hiring
one, even for a day, would be steep enough to take a significant slice
out of the cost of purchase.Â* But I'll investigate.

Probably only viable if you can borrow someone's. Failing that buy a
twin pack, and you won't lose any functionality over having a pair of
drills.



--
Cheers,

John.

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On 13/07/2018 10:54, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
I wouldn't want to be doing that job with no mains available anyway. I
like a good floodlight when I'm mucking about with wires.

+1


Although to be fair, the rechargable LED site lights are now pretty
good. I only have a small (10W) one and I have hardly had the lead
lights out since I got that.

John Rumm wrote:

Failing that buy a twin pack...

I was in my local Screwfix today and prominently displayed was this DeWalt
offer: an 18V combi drill and an impact driver for a tidge under £170.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-dc...win-pack/9801t

In view of my earlier thoughts about heft over finesse, it's notable that
virtually the first thing the presenter of the illustrative video says about
the impact driver is that it's "very powerful".

On 14/07/2018 19:21, Bert Coules wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Failing that buy a twin pack...

I was in my local Screwfix today and prominently displayed was this
DeWalt offer: an 18V combi drill and an impact driver for a tidge under
£170.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-dc...win-pack/9801t


In view of my earlier thoughts about heft over finesse, it's notable
that virtually the first thing the presenter of the illustrative video
says about the impact driver is that it's "very powerful".

Keep in mind, that if you find a case where the ID is too powerful /
unrefined, then you still have the drill. In reality I find I can drive
most screws with my 18V ID without problems. (although I quite often opt
for the 10.8V one for light work)


--
Cheers,

John.

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Thanks, John. It's a question of balancing the (possibly very) occasional
need for the power of an impact driver against the convenience of having two
drill/drivers and not having to swap between screwdriver and drill bits on
jobs which require lots of pilot holes. And on jobs which don't, a second
battery for whichever tool is in use would be a very handy thing.

On the whole, I think I, with others' help of course, have talked myself out
of the need for an impact driver.

On 14/07/2018 20:09, Bert Coules wrote:
Thanks, John.Â* It's a question of balancing the (possibly very)
occasional need for the power of an impact driver against the
convenience of having two drill/drivers and not having to swap between
screwdriver and drill bits on jobs which require lots of pilot holes.
And on jobs which don't, a second battery for whichever tool is in use
would be a very handy thing.

On the whole, I think I, with others' help of course, have talked myself
out of the need for an impact driver.



Get a couple of these Bosch greens - only £10 each.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00TKXC3S0?tag=22

Ah, but will the realistic function be realistic enough?

On 14/07/2018 21:12, Bert Coules wrote:
Ah, but will the realistic function be realistic enough?


Will they work with these?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/OCGIG-Shank.../dp/B072F6XWT9

On 14/07/2018 01:23, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/07/2018 00:41, Bert Coules wrote:
Thanks, I'll give it a look.

I've always found it useful to have two drill/drivers, especially for
a job which needs pilot holes for the screws.Â* I've rarely found even
a modest cordless drill too lacking in power for most of the work I
do, and if more heft ever is needed then I have a considerably larger
mains drill.Â* But both my cordless drills are on their way out, so
reading about the options for replacements is proving very useful.

So far, the impact drivers seem to offer power at the expense of
sensitivity, but that might be a false impression.

That is true, but its not the whole story:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...river#The_good

The main attraction is ease of driving screws from the operators point
of view. Say I am sticking a 2" twin thread wood screw into softwood. A
drill driver will do that without a pilot hole, and has more than enough
torque. However you need to apply reasonably a significant amount of
push to the tool to keep it adequately engaged in the screw head. That
also means driving screws at arms length or in awkward places can be
difficult.

The way the ID drives (in discrete rotational "punches") makes it much
less likely that the bit will jump out of the head - so you can drive
the screw with less physical effort from the operator. You get less
torque reaction in the wrist as well.



What I find so impressive about my humble 14.4 volt NiCad Makita impact
driver is the way that it will undo Pozi screws even with a bit of
misalignment, something which you normally have to avoid as far as
possible when driving.

I was also interested to read in another post how such tools can easily
undo things like the pulley nut on a Belle Cement mixer, which is why I
bought a 1/4, 3/8. and 1/2 inch square adaptor set. Not that I have had
a reason to try them yet.

On 14/07/2018 10:45, John Rumm wrote:
On 14/07/2018 10:10, Bert Coules wrote:
John, thanks for that.Â* I see the advantages, but I'm not sure that
the increased power and need for less force are necessary for most of
the DIY work I do.Â* It's silly to judge without actually trying one of
course but "sledgehammer" and "nut" are the words that spring to mind.

I think its like one of those hammer drill vs SDS type of experiences.

Yes the hammer drill will do the job in hard masonry - eventually,
however having tried a SDS you won't want to go back to a hammer drill
for hard masonry drilling.


Great analogy. +1

On 14/07/2018 13:01, dennis@home wrote:
On 14/07/2018 10:13, Bert Coules wrote:
"dennis@home"Â* wrote:

When you pull the trigger it rotates slowly and no impact action
happens so it will drive small screws, but if you press the trigger
too hard the thing will start impacting...

That's useful, thanks.Â* Is it true of all makes and models?Â* And does
it mean that beyond slow/fast-with-impact they don't have variable speed?


It has continuously variable speed on the trigger.


And they tend to be more "sensitive" than a normal combi drill. At least
that is the case for my Makita 14.4V impact driver and 18V combi drill.

On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 10:10:55 +0100, Bert Coules wrote:

John, thanks for that. I see the advantages, but I'm not sure that the
increased power and need for less force are necessary for most of the DIY
work I do. It's silly to judge without actually trying one of course but
"sledgehammer" and "nut" are the words that spring to mind.

I don't use my ID much, but it's bloody good for removing stuck/damaged
screws.
Using st. st. Turbo Ultra, 6x100, in to a pilot hole in softwood, the cheap
Parkside 14.4V combi would occasionally leave me with a screwless head if
there was a buried knot - I don't know what an IP would have done!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 14/07/2018 20:09, Bert Coules wrote:

Thanks, John.Â* It's a question of balancing the (possibly very)
occasional need for the power of an impact driver against the

I would not fixate on "power" too much. Think more in terms of speed and
ease of use.

convenience of having two drill/drivers and not having to swap between
screwdriver and drill bits on jobs which require lots of pilot holes.

Not sure I follow the logic... If you have a screwdriver in one and a
drill bit in the other, that is not a combination that one being an ID
prevents. (and if you really want two drill bits on the go at a time,
you can get drills with hex shanks as well (with built in countersink /
plug cutters as well if you like)

And on jobs which don't, a second battery for whichever tool is in use
would be a very handy thing.

One more bat than you have tools is probably the best option, that way
you can be using and charging at the same time.

On the whole, I think I, with others' help of course, have talked myself
out of the need for an impact driver.




--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm wrote:

Not sure I follow the logic... If you have a screwdriver in one and a
drill bit in the other, that is not a combination that one being an ID
prevents.

I think maybe I am, to use your apt phrase, fixating on power too much.

Chatting to my neighbour today about such things, he recommended Ryobi
cordless tools which he uses for DIY and occasionally professionally. A
search back through messages here has turned up very little comment on the
make but the specs look decent and the prices pretty reasonable, with, I
understand, fairly frequent offers at B&Q and Bunnings. Whatever I decide
to get, I suspect I could do worse than those.

In article , Bert Coules
wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Not sure I follow the logic... If you have a screwdriver in one and a
drill bit in the other, that is not a combination that one being an ID
prevents.

I think maybe I am, to use your apt phrase, fixating on power too much.

Chatting to my neighbour today about such things, he recommended Ryobi
cordless tools which he uses for DIY and occasionally professionally. A
search back through messages here has turned up very little comment on
the make but the specs look decent and the prices pretty reasonable,
with, I understand, fairly frequent offers at B&Q and Bunnings.
Whatever I decide to get, I suspect I could do worse than those.

I've been using Ryobi +One system for many years. The new NiMh batteries
seem good. There's even a 12v charger in the range if you want to recharge
away from mains.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 15/07/2018 16:53, Bert Coules wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Not sure I follow the logic... If you have a screwdriver in one and a
drill bit in the other, that is not a combination that one being an ID
prevents.

I think maybe I am, to use your apt phrase, fixating on power too much.

Chatting to my neighbour today about such things, he recommended Ryobi
cordless tools which he uses for DIY and occasionally professionally.Â* A
search back through messages here has turned up very little comment on
the make but the specs look decent and the prices pretty reasonable,
with, I understand, fairly frequent offers at B&Q and Bunnings.
Whatever I decide to get, I suspect I could do worse than those.

Another factor I don't think has been mentioned: one drill/driver looks
and sounds much like another. In contrast people will notice you have a
new tool when your impact driver starts giving it some welly

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Robin wrote:

In contrast people will notice you have a new tool when your impact driver
starts
giving it some welly

That is actually quite a serious consideration for me, and one which I
hadn't given much thought, so thanks.

"charles" wrote:

I've been using Ryobi +One system for many years.

Thanks for that: a positive recommendation is always good to see.

On 15/07/2018 18:47, Bert Coules wrote:
Robin wrote:

In contrast people will notice you have a new tool when your impact
driver starts
giving it some welly

That is actually quite a serious consideration for me, and one which I
hadn't given much thought, so thanks.

Yup, IDs are louder than a drill driver... (there are some new (and 'kin
expensive) hydraulic ones that claim to be quieter thouge)


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 15/07/2018 16:53, Bert Coules wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

Not sure I follow the logic... If you have a screwdriver in one and a
drill bit in the other, that is not a combination that one being an ID
prevents.

I think maybe I am, to use your apt phrase, fixating on power too much.

Chatting to my neighbour today about such things, he recommended Ryobi
cordless tools which he uses for DIY and occasionally professionally.Â* A
search back through messages here has turned up very little comment on
the make but the specs look decent and the prices pretty reasonable,
with, I understand, fairly frequent offers at B&Q and Bunnings.
Whatever I decide to get, I suspect I could do worse than those.

I have not tried the Ryobi electric tools (and don't plan to!)... but my
judgement of the brand may be somewhat jaundiced though by very poor
experiences with their petrol garden tools. Others have reported they
are ok.

ISTR they are one of the brands now owned by TTI (after passing through
several hands over the years), and they occupy their middle range of
tool brands. (with more serious brands like AEG and Milwaukee at the
high end).



--
Cheers,

John.

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On 15/07/2018 18:48, Bert Coules wrote:
"charles" wrote:

I've been using Ryobi +One system for many years.

Thanks for that: a positive recommendation is always good to see.


I have dewalt gear (for no really good reason) and others have Makita. I
have a Hitachi SDS dril, and a B&D drill bought about 40 years ago. They
are all good. I think you are overthinking this a bit.

I'd advise an impact driver, rather than two drills, but your YMMV.

BTW, there's a respectable drill + impact driver kit from Wickes for
£80. It's worth £80. Just not as good as a set costing 2 or 3 times as much.

My son has some Guild tools. They are nowhere near as good as the dewalt
gear I bought, but they were a fraction of the price. He still gets an
awful lot done with them.

On 10/07/2018 23:08, Andrew May wrote:
My fifteen year old Panasonic drill/driver has just died so I am in the
market for a replacement. A seperate impact driver would be useful so I
am looking at one of the combo packs.

What would anyone recommend? I don't want to spend silly money since it
is just for DIY use but we have a large project coming up and I would
rather have something worthwhile rather than just cheap.

Are the packs from the likes of Screwfix standard items or specially
engineered for the retailer down to a price point?

Andrew

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/dew...s-ebay-3005315

Possibly?