Ripping out an old bathroom, and need to fit a compression stop end to a
hot feed, something I have never done before, plumbing not being my
'thing'. So far, have cleaned the pipe of old paint where it needs to
be cut, and will have to cut with a hacksaw, as no space to rotate a
proper pipe cutter. Assuming I can get a nice 90 degree cut, should I
use compound or tape on the joint? Various YouTube videos have
different opinions, as does the DIY Wiki, so I suppose the thoughts here
will vary too :-)

--
Graeme

Use a compression stop end.

Richard

In message , Graeme
writes

Ripping out an old bathroom, and need to fit a compression stop end to
a hot feed, something I have never done before, plumbing not being my
'thing'. So far, have cleaned the pipe of old paint where it needs to
be cut, and will have to cut with a hacksaw, as no space to rotate a
proper pipe cutter. Assuming I can get a nice 90 degree cut, should I
use compound or tape on the joint? Various YouTube videos have
different opinions, as does the DIY Wiki, so I suppose the thoughts
here will vary too :-)

IANAP If the olive and fitting slide over the burrs left by your
hacksaw, just fit it and you'll be fine.
I suppose you should consider if the pipe is old enough to be an
imperial size.


--
Tim Lamb

On 17/06/2018 09:13, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Use a compression stop end.

Is this just a temporary capping-off, while the bathroom is being
re-furbed? If so the having a handful of pushfit stop ends is handy ...

https://screwfix.com/p/stopend/94176

In article ,
Graeme writes:

Ripping out an old bathroom, and need to fit a compression stop end to a
hot feed, something I have never done before, plumbing not being my
'thing'. So far, have cleaned the pipe of old paint where it needs to
be cut, and will have to cut with a hacksaw, as no space to rotate a
proper pipe cutter. Assuming I can get a nice 90 degree cut, should I
use compound or tape on the joint? Various YouTube videos have
different opinions, as does the DIY Wiki, so I suppose the thoughts here
will vary too :-)

A compression joint shouldn't have any compound or tape on it.
It's designed to seal without anything added to the sealing faces.
(In the case of carrying gas, it *must* be assembled according to
the relevant BS, i.e. without any sealing added.)

However, if it's been buggered up by fitting badly, then the seals
may not work as designed, and can often be bodged by using tape
(again, not acceptable for gas).
This will not seal for as long as a properly made compression joint.
Once the seals have been contaminated with something, it will
probably always need bodging to make it seal again because the
sealing faces are damaged.

The most common way I see compression fittings damaged is by doing
them up using a poorly fitting spanner on the compression ring.
This can distort the compression ring into an oval or egg shape,
and then it won't seal, and may even leak more as it's tightened.
The spanner needs to be a good tight fit so there is no tendancy
to roll over the nut corners. The jaws need to be parallel, and
if using an adjustable spanner, they must stay parallel under
force (cheap adjustables don't). I do sometimes use a single turn
of PTFE on the non-sealing half of the olive as a lubricant while
tightening and compressing the olive on large pipe sizes, but if
you do this, make really sure it doesn't get into the sealing
surface of the joint, and after initial assembly which compresses
the olive, you can disassemble and remove the tape.

If the capping off is temporary, I will often do it using a
pushfit end cap (although they don't like being pushed onto
hacksawed pipe ends with any burr as it can damage the O-ring).
When doing plumbing, it's good to have some pushfit endcaps to
hand anyway in case you have to cap something off you hadn't
thought of (e.g. water trickling back out the other end of the
cut pipe).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In message , Tim Lamb
writes

I suppose you should consider if the pipe is old enough to be an
imperial size.

Yes! Although the house is Victorian, most of the plumbing was
installed +/- 40 years ago, so a fair chance it will be metric?
--
Graeme

In message , Andy Burns
writes

Is this just a temporary capping-off, while the bathroom is being
re-furbed? If so the having a handful of pushfit stop ends is handy ...

They look handy things to have in the shed. Thanks.

No, this is a permanent capping off, as the room (a ground floor
carbuncle on the side of the house) will no longer be a bathroom.

I think, in this case, getting a nice clean 90 degree cut is going to be
the most difficult, but I'm not going to try until tomorrow, as, should
it all go pear shaped, more chance of finding a proper plumber on a
weekday :-)
--
Graeme

Graeme wrote:

getting a nice clean 90 degree cut is going to be the most difficult

pipeslice

Graeme wrote

Ripping out an old bathroom, and need to fit a compression stop end to a
hot feed, something I have never done before, plumbing not being my
'thing'. So far, have cleaned the pipe of old paint where it needs to be
cut, and will have to cut with a hacksaw, as no space to rotate a proper
pipe cutter. Assuming I can get a nice 90 degree cut, should I use
compound or tape on the joint? Various YouTube videos have different
opinions, as does the DIY Wiki, so I suppose the thoughts here will vary
too :-)

Both work fine. I prefer tape myself.

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , Andy Burns
writes

Is this just a temporary capping-off, while the bathroom is being
re-furbed? If so the having a handful of pushfit stop ends is handy ...

They look handy things to have in the shed. Thanks.

No, this is a permanent capping off, as the room (a ground floor carbuncle
on the side of the house) will no longer be a bathroom.

I think, in this case, getting a nice clean 90 degree cut is going to be
the most difficult, but I'm not going to try until tomorrow, as, should it
all go pear shaped, more chance of finding a proper plumber on a weekday
:-)

I used a jigsaw in that situation and now have a sabre saw too.

On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 19:52:56 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

I think, in this case, getting a nice clean 90 degree cut is going to be
the most difficult, but I'm not going to try until tomorrow, as, should it
all go pear shaped, more chance of finding a proper plumber on a weekday
:-)

I used a jigsaw in that situation and now have a sabre saw too.

Do you? VBG

In message , Andy Burns
writes
Graeme wrote:

getting a nice clean 90 degree cut is going to be the most difficult

pipeslice

Ordered! Thank you.
--
Graeme

On 17/06/2018 10:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Graeme wrote:

getting a nice clean 90 degree cut is going to be the most difficult

pipeslice


Cut the pipe 'downstream' of where you want the final cut. This should
hopefully give you enough spring in the pipe to get a pipeslice in to
cut it properly. I really really wouldn't try a hacksaw unless you have
room to make a second, third or fourth cut when the first one goes
wrong. Not buying a pipeslice, but having to get an emergency plumber
in, would be a false economy.

I always use plenty of Boss Green, but others will say you shouldn't. I
find the stuff works. Just have some kitchen roll handy, as it's messy.

In message , GB
writes

Cut the pipe 'downstream' of where you want the final cut. This should
hopefully give you enough spring in the pipe to get a pipeslice in to
cut it properly.

Where I want the cut is about three inches from the wall, so not enough
space to rotate my 'traditional' cutter, but plenty for a slice, which I
have just ordered.

I always use plenty of Boss Green, but others will say you shouldn't. I
find the stuff works. Just have some kitchen roll handy, as it's messy.

The cold is already disconnected, so this morning, I removed the cold
pipe, tap etc., then cut through and removed the waste pipe and trap,
leaving just the hot supply, which is where the pipe needs cutting. It
did occur, afterwards, that removing the waste pipe first was probably
not a good idea ...

Luckily, there is a drain cock close to where I want to cut, so fingers
crossed.
--
Graeme

On Sunday, 17 June 2018 07:35:17 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:

Ripping out an old bathroom, and need to fit a compression stop end to a
hot feed, something I have never done before, plumbing not being my
'thing'. So far, have cleaned the pipe of old paint where it needs to
be cut, and will have to cut with a hacksaw, as no space to rotate a
proper pipe cutter. Assuming I can get a nice 90 degree cut, should I
use compound or tape on the joint? Various YouTube videos have
different opinions, as does the DIY Wiki, so I suppose the thoughts here
will vary too :-)

A dry compression fitting should seal, but doesn't always. A bit of gloop in there can solve that.

If you're new to this, do the nuts up good & tight. It's surprising how much tightness is needed.


NT

On 17/06/2018 07:35, Graeme wrote:

Ripping out an old bathroom, and need to fit a compression stop end to a
hot feed, something I have never done before, plumbing not being my
'thing'.Â* So far, have cleaned the pipe of old paint where it needs to
be cut, and will have to cut with a hacksaw, as no space to rotate a
proper pipe cutter.Â* Assuming I can get a nice 90 degree cut, should I
use compound or tape on the joint?Â* Various YouTube videos have
different opinions, as does the DIY Wiki, so I suppose the thoughts here
will vary too :-)

More than likely...

My experience is :

Generally if the pipe is clean and in good condition (not scratched,
dented etc), then a compression fitting will seal just fine on its own.

Using some lubrication on the threads to make tightening easier
(especially if working in a confined space) can make the job easier. A
pipe jointing compound like jet lube will do the trick, but so will a
few turns of PTFE tape on the threads[1].

If for some reason you can't get a good seal on a joint (maybe 1 in 100
joints IME), then a few turns of PTFE over the olive will normally fix
it. As will application of a jointing compound. (use a proper WRAS
approved one though - not something that will harbour microbial growth
like putty or old school boss white).

lastly a decent set of spanners help enormously. Using something that is
poor fitting can in extreme cases deform the backnut, and that will have
difficulty ever making a proper seal.



[1] You will hear people bleat on about that being "pointless" and
"amateur" etc, but that is because they are too dumb to understand that
lubrication of the turning bits has a completely separate purpose from
augmentation the sealing surfaces with similar materials.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Graeme wrote:
Is this just a temporary capping-off, while the bathroom is being
re-furbed? If so the having a handful of pushfit stop ends is handy ...

They look handy things to have in the shed. Thanks.

No, this is a permanent capping off, as the room (a ground floor
carbuncle on the side of the house) will no longer be a bathroom.

Then why not use an end feed cap? Provided you clean the pipe and use
decent flux and solder properly, never leak.

Do be aware that a dead leg like this sometimes causes noise.

--
*IF A PARSLEY FARMER IS SUED, CAN THEY GARNISH HIS WAGES?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/06/2018 09:34, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

If the capping off is temporary, I will often do it using a
pushfit end cap (although they don't like being pushed onto
hacksawed pipe ends with any burr as it can damage the O-ring).
When doing plumbing, it's good to have some pushfit endcaps to
hand anyway in case you have to cap something off you hadn't
thought of (e.g. water trickling back out the other end of the
cut pipe).


I have a small collection of speedfit stop ends for just this purpose...
I find them handy as they are easy to remove by hand without needing tools.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sunday, 17 June 2018 07:35:17 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
Ripping out an old bathroom, and need to fit a compression stop end to a
hot feed, something I have never done before, plumbing not being my
'thing'. So far, have cleaned the pipe of old paint where it needs to
be cut, and will have to cut with a hacksaw, as no space to rotate a
proper pipe cutter. Assuming I can get a nice 90 degree cut, should I

Angle grinder.
Plus file to deburr it.
You may find it's imperial not metric as well.


use compound or tape on the joint? Various YouTube videos have
different opinions, as does the DIY Wiki, so I suppose the thoughts here
will vary too :-)

Whatever you have to hand

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Graeme wrote:

No, this is a permanent capping off, as the room (a ground floor
carbuncle on the side of the house) will no longer be a bathroom.

Then why not use an end feed cap? Provided you clean the pipe and use
decent flux and solder properly, never leak.

Because I have several compression end caps to hand.

Do be aware that a dead leg like this sometimes causes noise.

Indeed, although the particular basin to be removed has never been used
as such in 16 years, so not much is going to change. I am fairly sure
the feed pipe to be terminated is a T off another pipe that feeds a
downstairs cloakroom.
--
Graeme

In message , John
Rumm writes

Generally if the pipe is clean and in good condition (not scratched,
dented etc), then a compression fitting will seal just fine on its own.

Excellent. I have completely cleaned and almost polished the pipe where
I want to cut, and no signs of any dents or deformity.

much useful info snipped

Will report back :-)

--
Graeme

Good advice I picked up on this group was to pull the pipe back a couple of
mm before tightening the nut. This allows the pipe to "pull in" as the nut
is tightened.

In article ,
Graeme wrote:
Then why not use an end feed cap? Provided you clean the pipe and use
decent flux and solder properly, never leak.

Because I have several compression end caps to hand.

End feed caps cost pennies. Keep your compression fittings for where they
are best way.

--
*Tell me to 'stuff it' - I'm a taxidermist.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message 6,
DerbyBorn writes

Good advice I picked up on this group was to pull the pipe back a couple of
mm before tightening the nut. This allows the pipe to "pull in" as the nut
is tightened.

Noted, thanks.
--
Graeme

On 17/06/2018 19:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
Then why not use an end feed cap? Provided you clean the pipe and use
decent flux and solder properly, never leak.

Because I have several compression end caps to hand.

End feed caps cost pennies. Keep your compression fittings for where they
are best way.


But you may not be able to solder them if there's any water left in the
pipe and/or if the pipe isn't spotlessly clean, with every molecule of
paint removed.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In message , Roger Mills
writes
On 17/06/2018 19:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

End feed caps cost pennies. Keep your compression fittings for where they
are best way.

But you may not be able to solder them if there's any water left in the
pipe and/or if the pipe isn't spotlessly clean, with every molecule of
paint removed.

Not to mention my general trepidation using a compression fitting. Were
I to solder, I'd never dare turn the water back on!
--
Graeme

On 17/06/2018 22:15, Graeme wrote:
In message , Roger Mills
writes
On 17/06/2018 19:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

End feed caps cost pennies. Keep your compression fittings for where
they
are best way.

But you may not be able to solder them if there's any water left in
the pipe and/or if the pipe isn't spotlessly clean, with every
molecule of paint removed.

Not to mention my general trepidation using a compression fitting. Were
I to solder, I'd never dare turn the water back on!

Compression joints are easy enough - on small pipes, anyway. [You need a
lot of torque on 28mm and above]. What size is the pipe you're capping?

Just push the fitting firmly onto the pipe, hold the body with one
spanner and turn the compression nut with another. You can 'feel' when
it's tight.

I always do mine up, and then dismantle them to make sure that the
olives have crimped ok, and then re-assemble them with a smear of LS-X
round the olive, and finally tighten them.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In message , Roger Mills
writes

Compression joints are easy enough - on small pipes, anyway. [You need
a lot of torque on 28mm and above]. What size is the pipe you're
capping?

Only 15mm, so should be straightforward.

Just push the fitting firmly onto the pipe, hold the body with one
spanner and turn the compression nut with another. You can 'feel' when
it's tight.

OK.

I always do mine up, and then dismantle them to make sure that the
olives have crimped ok, and then re-assemble them with a smear of LS-X
round the olive, and finally tighten them.

Noted, thanks.
--
Graeme

In article ,
Graeme wrote:
I always do mine up, and then dismantle them to make sure that the
olives have crimped ok, and then re-assemble them with a smear of LS-X
round the olive, and finally tighten them.

Noted, thanks.

A pal who was a pro plumber used to wrap some PTFE tape round the olive.
Since it was good enough for him, I do too. Cheaper and less messy than
LS-X.

Do understand the theory that if everything is perfect it will seal OK
dry, though.

--
*Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes

A pal who was a pro plumber used to wrap some PTFE tape round the olive.
Since it was good enough for him, I do too. Cheaper and less messy than
LS-X.

Also noted :-)

--
Graeme

On Monday, 18 June 2018 14:37:34 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 17/06/2018 22:15, Graeme wrote:
In message , Roger Mills
writes
On 17/06/2018 19:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

End feed caps cost pennies. Keep your compression fittings for where
they
are best way.

But you may not be able to solder them if there's any water left in
the pipe and/or if the pipe isn't spotlessly clean, with every
molecule of paint removed.

Not to mention my general trepidation using a compression fitting. Were
I to solder, I'd never dare turn the water back on!

Compression joints are easy enough - on small pipes, anyway. [You need a
lot of torque on 28mm and above]. What size is the pipe you're capping?

Just push the fitting firmly onto the pipe, hold the body with one
spanner and turn the compression nut with another. You can 'feel' when
it's tight.

I always do mine up, and then dismantle them to make sure that the
olives have crimped ok, and then re-assemble them with a smear of LS-X
round the olive, and finally tighten them.

I've had several leaks from doing them up good & tight. Doing them up _real_ tight usually solves it.
Compression is great on new pipe. Old pipes are less certain IMLE.


NT

On 19/06/2018 11:44, wrote:
On Monday, 18 June 2018 14:37:34 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 17/06/2018 22:15, Graeme wrote:
In , Roger Mills
writes
On 17/06/2018 19:05, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

End feed caps cost pennies. Keep your compression fittings for where
they
are best way.

But you may not be able to solder them if there's any water left in
the pipe and/or if the pipe isn't spotlessly clean, with every
molecule of paint removed.

Not to mention my general trepidation using a compression fitting. Were
I to solder, I'd never dare turn the water back on!

Compression joints are easy enough - on small pipes, anyway. [You need a
lot of torque on 28mm and above]. What size is the pipe you're capping?

Just push the fitting firmly onto the pipe, hold the body with one
spanner and turn the compression nut with another. You can 'feel' when
it's tight.

I always do mine up, and then dismantle them to make sure that the
olives have crimped ok, and then re-assemble them with a smear of LS-X
round the olive, and finally tighten them.

I've had several leaks from doing them up good& tight. Doing them up _real_ tight usually solves it.
Compression is great on new pipe. Old pipes are less certain IMLE.


NT


It's got more chance on old pipes than either solder or pushfit.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
It's got more chance on old pipes than either solder or pushfit.

How you you work that out? Any old copper pipe can be cleaned to
perfection, and solder will fill any gaps. Obviously you have to make sure
there is no water in the pipe close to the end.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/06/2018 14:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:
It's got more chance on old pipes than either solder or pushfit.

How you you work that out? Any old copper pipe can be cleaned to
perfection, and solder will fill any gaps. Obviously you have to make sure
there is no water in the pipe close to the end.


If you're making a joint on an *installed* pipe - as the OP is - it is
often difficult to get access to clean it completely, particularly if
it's got paint on it.

A compression joint with a smear of LS-X or - if you prefer - a wrap of
PTFE tape can cover a multitude of sins.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:
How you you work that out? Any old copper pipe can be cleaned to
perfection, and solder will fill any gaps. Obviously you have to make sure
there is no water in the pipe close to the end.


If you're making a joint on an *installed* pipe - as the OP is - it is
often difficult to get access to clean it completely, particularly if
it's got paint on it.

You need it to be clean for a compression fitting to work too.

But a cleaning strip works well on a pipe close to a wall.

A compression joint with a smear of LS-X or - if you prefer - a wrap of
PTFE tape can cover a multitude of sins.

--
*PMS jokes aren't funny; period.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 19 June 2018 17:30:16 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 19/06/2018 14:01, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:
It's got more chance on old pipes than either solder or pushfit.

How you you work that out? Any old copper pipe can be cleaned to
perfection, and solder will fill any gaps. Obviously you have to make sure
there is no water in the pipe close to the end.


If you're making a joint on an *installed* pipe - as the OP is - it is
often difficult to get access to clean it completely, particularly if
it's got paint on it.

A compression joint with a smear of LS-X or - if you prefer - a wrap of
PTFE tape can cover a multitude of sins.

it can't cover many sins at all, there lies the problem. Compression & solder cover different sins, neither does them all.


NT

On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 07:35:06 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


Ripping out an old bathroom, and need to fit a compression stop end to a
hot feed, something I have never done before, plumbing not being my
'thing'. So far, have cleaned the pipe of old paint where it needs to
be cut, and will have to cut with a hacksaw, as no space to rotate a
proper pipe cutter.

snip

Isn't this one of the very instances we bought our multitools for? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 19/06/2018 21:23, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 07:35:06 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


Ripping out an old bathroom, and need to fit a compression stop end to a
hot feed, something I have never done before, plumbing not being my
'thing'. So far, have cleaned the pipe of old paint where it needs to
be cut, and will have to cut with a hacksaw, as no space to rotate a
proper pipe cutter.

snip

Isn't this one of the very instances we bought our multitools for? ;-)

They are good for thing like plunge cuts into a pipe surrounded by
others. I tend reach for my small 10.8V reciprocating saw for most
plumbing cuts that I can't do with a pipe cutter since its much faster
and the blades are cheaper and more robust.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/