On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 21:12:04 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 02/06/2018 16:04, T i m wrote:

10mm might well be greater than the capacity of at least some cordless
drills.

Yes because a lot are 3/8" which is 9.2mm.

I make sure any drill I buy (portable or otherwise) can take 1/2" -
12mm as a minimum.

Physically accepting the bit is one thing. Having the power to use it is
another.

Of course, which is why I don't buy cr*p drills that can't meet the
demands I put on them?

What is the point of having a drill with a clutch that when on the
highest torque position the drill motor can't overpower the clutch and
when the clutch is disengaged completely, doesn't try to twist your
arms off (or snap the bit) if it stalls. ;-)

I still have a cheapo 12V (NiMh) drill I bought from the market and
whilst the batteries are shot, I've removed them and put a connector
in an empty battery case and run it off a 12V external battery instead
(ok, whilst it's not truly cordless it's still mains free and
therefore 'portable' (without a generator)).

I bothered to do that because it too seemed to be unstoppable, it even
has a pretty good hammer option and because it was 'cheap', I've given
it all sorts of abuse that it seems to have taken in it's stride. It's
not small though so not good for tight spaces.

Now, mates have bought cr*p cordless drills that seem to have the same
power as my Dremel so I can understand that if that is your only
experience you might consider them all 'weak'.

My current Go-To, a Stanley FatMax (that wasn't particularly expensive
etc), I treat as if it's a corded drill (apart from runtime and speed
etc) and have used with fairly large diameter wire brushes for
de-rusting stuff etc.

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 10:01:07 +0100
Nightjar wrote:

On 02/06/2018 09:15, Tim Lamb wrote:

I'd be a bit concerned about the lack of light on the pond?
Weldmesh?

That or a plastic mesh is the more usual solution. Suspended just
below the surface, it can be virtually invisible but still prevent
drowning

That will provide protection for fish from predatory birds but won't
stop drowning - it may even make it more likely if someone gets
entangled.

On 03/06/2018 15:47, Rob Morley wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 10:01:07 +0100
Nightjar wrote:

On 02/06/2018 09:15, Tim Lamb wrote:

I'd be a bit concerned about the lack of light on the pond?
Weldmesh?

That or a plastic mesh is the more usual solution. Suspended just
below the surface, it can be virtually invisible but still prevent
drowning

That will provide protection for fish from predatory birds but won't
stop drowning - it may even make it more likely if someone gets
entangled.


I can see flexible netting causing that problem, but not a well-fixed
piece of 50mm x 50mm x 3mm weldmesh or a similar strength rigid plastic
mesh. You should be able to walk across the top of the pond on either of
the latter.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On 03/06/2018 16:37, Nightjar wrote:
On 03/06/2018 15:47, Rob Morley wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 10:01:07 +0100
Nightjar wrote:

On 02/06/2018 09:15, Tim Lamb wrote:
I'd be a bit concerned about the lack of light on the pond?
Weldmesh?

That or a plastic mesh is the more usual solution. Suspended just
below the surface, it can be virtually invisible but still prevent
drowning

That will provide protection for fish from predatory birds but won't
stop drowning - it may even make it more likely if someone gets
entangled.


I can see flexible netting causing that problem, but not a well-fixed
piece of 50mm x 50mm x 3mm weldmesh or a similar strength rigid plastic
mesh. You should be able to walk across the top of the pond on either of
the latter.


In any case, suspend it above the water, so there is no risk at all of
drowning. To hell with the look of the thing!

On 03/06/2018 08:53, T i m wrote:

Now, mates have bought cr*p cordless drills that seem to have the same
power as my Dremel so I can understand that if that is your only
experience you might consider them all 'weak'.

My experience of cordless drills is mainly from the Bosch 24V and 36V
pro ones.

Bill

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 17:16:15 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 03/06/2018 08:53, T i m wrote:

Now, mates have bought cr*p cordless drills that seem to have the same
power as my Dremel so I can understand that if that is your only
experience you might consider them all 'weak'.

My experience of cordless drills is mainly from the Bosch 24V and 36V
pro ones.


And would you say they had *plenty* of torque?

Just because they were Bosch doesn't necessarily mean they did?

Cheers, T i m

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 03/06/2018 15:47, Rob Morley wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 10:01:07 +0100
Nightjar wrote:

On 02/06/2018 09:15, Tim Lamb wrote:

I'd be a bit concerned about the lack of light on the pond?
Weldmesh?

That or a plastic mesh is the more usual solution. Suspended just
below the surface, it can be virtually invisible but still prevent
drowning

That will provide protection for fish from predatory birds but won't
stop drowning - it may even make it more likely if someone gets
entangled.


I can see flexible netting causing that problem, but not a well-fixed
piece of 50mm x 50mm x 3mm weldmesh or a similar strength rigid plastic
mesh. You should be able to walk across the top of the pond on either of
the latter.

Dunno, I can see little kids legs getting thru the holes in those.

"GB" wrote in message
news
On 03/06/2018 16:37, Nightjar wrote:
On 03/06/2018 15:47, Rob Morley wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 10:01:07 +0100
Nightjar wrote:

On 02/06/2018 09:15, Tim Lamb wrote:
I'd be a bit concerned about the lack of light on the pond?
Weldmesh?

That or a plastic mesh is the more usual solution. Suspended just
below the surface, it can be virtually invisible but still prevent
drowning

That will provide protection for fish from predatory birds but won't
stop drowning - it may even make it more likely if someone gets
entangled.


I can see flexible netting causing that problem, but not a well-fixed
piece of 50mm x 50mm x 3mm weldmesh or a similar strength rigid plastic
mesh. You should be able to walk across the top of the pond on either of
the latter.


In any case, suspend it above the water, so there is no risk at all of
drowning. To hell with the look of the thing!

If you dont care about the look of the thing it makes more sense to fill it
in.

On 03/06/2018 18:25, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 17:16:15 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 03/06/2018 08:53, T i m wrote:

Now, mates have bought cr*p cordless drills that seem to have the same
power as my Dremel so I can understand that if that is your only
experience you might consider them all 'weak'.

My experience of cordless drills is mainly from the Bosch 24V and 36V
pro ones.


And would you say they had *plenty* of torque?

Just because they were Bosch doesn't necessarily mean they did?

Cheers, T i m

I only mentioned the make to help people form a mental picture. Far as I
know all the pro tools have plenty of torque, else they wouldn't sell.
In fact the hammer drills are a revelation to anyone used to a small
mains powered one.

I was originally on about the smaller battery drills, of which I have
several (also Bosch). No way would they be up to drilling umpteen 10mm
holes in aluminium.

Nothing worse than an under-powered power tool, be it a drill or a
planer or a lawn mower or a motor bike. Just leads to frustration and
forcing it, then an accident or a burn-out. Always use a tool that's
over-powered for the job.

Bill

On 03/06/2018 16:44, GB wrote:
On 03/06/2018 16:37, Nightjar wrote:
On 03/06/2018 15:47, Rob Morley wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 10:01:07 +0100
Nightjar wrote:

On 02/06/2018 09:15, Tim Lamb wrote:
I'd be a bit concerned about the lack of light on the pond?
Weldmesh?

That or a plastic mesh is the more usual solution. Suspended just
below the surface, it can be virtually invisible but still prevent
drowning

That will provide protection for fish from predatory birds but won't
stop drowning - it may even make it more likely if someone gets
entangled.


I can see flexible netting causing that problem, but not a well-fixed
piece of 50mm x 50mm x 3mm weldmesh or a similar strength rigid
plastic mesh. You should be able to walk across the top of the pond on
either of the latter.


In any case, suspend it above the water, so there is no risk at all of
drowning. To hell with the look of the thing!

Walking on water looks much more impressive :-)

--
--

Colin Bignell

In message , Bill Wright
writes
I was originally on about the smaller battery drills, of which I have
several (also Bosch). No way would they be up to drilling umpteen 10mm
holes in aluminium.

Nothing worse than an under-powered power tool, be it a drill or a
planer or a lawn mower or a motor bike. Just leads to frustration and
forcing it, then an accident or a burn-out. Always use a tool that's
over-powered for the job.

I am the OP. Son has a decent Bosch battery drill, so that's good.

But..... I had it all wrong, I'm afraid.

I saw the job yesterday. The problem is not with drilling sheet ali,
it's with adding reinforcing struts to the ali frames he has already
made out of 1" square ali tube. The struts are also 1" square tube, one
being 5metres long, another 3metres.

There are 3 big triangular frames, and the struts are needed because
they don't seem rigid enough. The frame joints are some sort of plastic
inserts into the ends of the tubes. The struts will be bolted to the top
of the frame using studding, which I assume will also hold the mesh to
cover each big triangle.

So the problem is getting 10mm holes through two inch square ali tubes.

My smallest step drill goes up to 12mm, so we don't want to plough
through the lot in one go, but it has to be fairly precise.

I'm suggesting pilot holes, then the step drill from each sides of the
tube. He is worried that this will make the job long and tedious
working, as he has to, alone.
--
Bill

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 03:33:39 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 03/06/2018 18:25, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 17:16:15 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 03/06/2018 08:53, T i m wrote:

Now, mates have bought cr*p cordless drills that seem to have the same
power as my Dremel so I can understand that if that is your only
experience you might consider them all 'weak'.

My experience of cordless drills is mainly from the Bosch 24V and 36V
pro ones.


And would you say they had *plenty* of torque?

Just because they were Bosch doesn't necessarily mean they did?



I only mentioned the make to help people form a mental picture.

Understood.

Far as I
know all the pro tools have plenty of torque, else they wouldn't sell.

Yeahbut that wasn't the question Bill. The question was have *you*
found that *your* battery drill has sufficient torque for everything
*you* have ever used it for?

In fact the hammer drills are a revelation to anyone used to a small
mains powered one.

Ok.

I was originally on about the smaller battery drills, of which I have
several (also Bosch). No way would they be up to drilling umpteen 10mm
holes in aluminium.

Ok, thanks for defining it to such (smaller) drills. That's why I was
saying I always try to go for something with a 1/2" capacity chuck and
so far, every drill I've bought has been to use that capacity and more
(like with step drills).

Nothing worse than an under-powered power tool, be it a drill or a
planer or a lawn mower or a motor bike.

Agreed.

Just leads to frustration and
forcing it, then an accident or a burn-out. Always use a tool that's
over-powered for the job.

Check. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 09:45:38 +0100, Bill wrote:

I'm suggesting pilot holes, then the step drill from each sides of the
tube.

Sounds good...

He is worried that this will make the job long and tedious
working, as he has to, alone.

Remedy his worries by "helping", i.e. drinking beer and watching, and possibly
by repeatedly telling him what he's doing wrong.


Thomas Prufer

On Mon, 04 Jun 2018 11:29:07 +0200, Thomas Prufer
wrote:

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 09:45:38 +0100, Bill wrote:

I'm suggesting pilot holes, then the step drill from each sides of the
tube.

Sounds good...

He is worried that this will make the job long and tedious
working, as he has to, alone.

Remedy his worries by "helping", i.e. drinking beer and watching, and possibly
by repeatedly telling him what he's doing wrong.

Hehe.

It's funny, many people (inc daughter and I and as you say) quite like
working with someone, sometimes for the company and sometimes just for
the extra pair of hands / Gopher.

OTOH, there are jobs that I can easily do single handed and where I
prefer to concentrate, like when measuring out smaller stuff (where
you don't need extra hands on the ends of a tape) or metal-turning
etc.

Yesterday I 'helped' my mate change all 4 brake cylinders and shoes on
the old Landrover he's going to sell and most of my help was just
keeping him supplied with the right tools at the right time and
protecting the tools that were out when he went to get others. I also
provided the odd tool and penetrating fluid to help make the job
easier and keep it going forward.

In return I was given lunch and plenty of hot / cold drinks ... had
some chat / laughs and hopefully got the job done quicker / better
('two heads' ... etc).

Some jobs really do need two pairs of hands, like when the Mrs and I
were bolting the body onto the kitcar chassis. It was raining ... so I
was inside dropping the bolts though the holes and she was outside /
underneath, putting the nuts and washers on and doing them up. ;-)

It's really nice when you are working with someone who can think ahead
.... or works out quickly there is 'a plan' or procedure that seems to
make to job quicker / easier and without you having to ask / prompt
all the time.

"Can you get me a 10mm open ender" is only any good if they know what
a '10mm open ender is' and where they are likely to find it (or can
work out where they are likely to be by themselves (out, in / on the
vehicle, under you / their foot or in the workshop)). By the time you
have explained either it's often quicker to get it yourself ... and if
you are working with the Mrs, risk a row ... (because it wasn't
'obvious' the 'red toolbox on the left' half open draw contained loads
of spanners). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Monday, 4 June 2018 09:45:57 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
In message , Bill Wright
writes

Nothing worse than an under-powered power tool, be it a drill or a
planer or a lawn mower or a motor bike. Just leads to frustration and
forcing it, then an accident or a burn-out. Always use a tool that's
over-powered for the job.

I've seen plenty of things worse than an underpowered tool fwliw


I am the OP. Son has a decent Bosch battery drill, so that's good.

But..... I had it all wrong, I'm afraid.

I saw the job yesterday. The problem is not with drilling sheet ali,
it's with adding reinforcing struts to the ali frames he has already
made out of 1" square ali tube. The struts are also 1" square tube, one
being 5metres long, another 3metres.

There are 3 big triangular frames, and the struts are needed because
they don't seem rigid enough. The frame joints are some sort of plastic
inserts into the ends of the tubes. The struts will be bolted to the top
of the frame using studding, which I assume will also hold the mesh to
cover each big triangle.

So the problem is getting 10mm holes through two inch square ali tubes.

My smallest step drill goes up to 12mm, so we don't want to plough
through the lot in one go, but it has to be fairly precise.

I'm suggesting pilot holes, then the step drill from each sides of the
tube. He is worried that this will make the job long and tedious
working, as he has to, alone.

Drilling lots of 12mm holes isn't going to be quick, but the step drill has the huge advantage of a geometry usable on aluminium. If he opts instead for a standard drill bit & doesn't mod it it'll be a curse perfecting experience. Also a step drill will avoid a great number of bit changes.


NT

In article ,
Bill wrote:
So the problem is getting 10mm holes through two inch square ali tubes.

My smallest step drill goes up to 12mm, so we don't want to plough
through the lot in one go, but it has to be fairly precise.

I'm suggesting pilot holes, then the step drill from each sides of the
tube. He is worried that this will make the job long and tedious
working, as he has to, alone.

Do remember you'll get some 'wander' when enlarging holes by any such
means which might matter with lining up the fixings between two parts.

--
*WHY IS THERE AN EXPIRATION DATE ON SOUR CREAM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/06/2018 13:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill wrote:
So the problem is getting 10mm holes through two inch square ali tubes.

My smallest step drill goes up to 12mm, so we don't want to plough
through the lot in one go, but it has to be fairly precise.

I'm suggesting pilot holes, then the step drill from each sides of the
tube. He is worried that this will make the job long and tedious
working, as he has to, alone.

Do remember you'll get some 'wander' when enlarging holes by any such
means which might matter with lining up the fixings between two parts.


I assume the point of using 10mm holes is to allow for this. After all,
you couldn't possible really need 10mm bolts to hold a bit of ali tube
together.

Umm, could you?

I thought 10mm holes and drop M6 bolts in, which gives 4mm play. After
all, it's only got to take the weight of a toddler.

In article ,
GB wrote:
On 04/06/2018 13:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill wrote:
So the problem is getting 10mm holes through two inch square ali tubes.

My smallest step drill goes up to 12mm, so we don't want to plough
through the lot in one go, but it has to be fairly precise.

I'm suggesting pilot holes, then the step drill from each sides of the
tube. He is worried that this will make the job long and tedious
working, as he has to, alone.

Do remember you'll get some 'wander' when enlarging holes by any such
means which might matter with lining up the fixings between two parts.


I assume the point of using 10mm holes is to allow for this. After all,
you couldn't possible really need 10mm bolts to hold a bit of ali tube
together.

Umm, could you?

I thought 10mm holes and drop M6 bolts in, which gives 4mm play. After
all, it's only got to take the weight of a toddler.

Think if I were fixing ally sheet to ally tube, I'd use pop rivets. Not
mess around with nuts and bolts.

--
*Proofread carefully to see if you any words out or mispeld something *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/06/2018 14:08, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GB wrote:
On 04/06/2018 13:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill wrote:
So the problem is getting 10mm holes through two inch square ali tubes.

My smallest step drill goes up to 12mm, so we don't want to plough
through the lot in one go, but it has to be fairly precise.

I'm suggesting pilot holes, then the step drill from each sides of the
tube. He is worried that this will make the job long and tedious
working, as he has to, alone.

Do remember you'll get some 'wander' when enlarging holes by any such
means which might matter with lining up the fixings between two parts.


I assume the point of using 10mm holes is to allow for this. After all,
you couldn't possible really need 10mm bolts to hold a bit of ali tube
together.

Umm, could you?

I thought 10mm holes and drop M6 bolts in, which gives 4mm play. After
all, it's only got to take the weight of a toddler.

Think if I were fixing ally sheet to ally tube, I'd use pop rivets. Not
mess around with nuts and bolts.


We've moved on from joining sheet to tubes. The OP's son is joining two
1" square ally tubes together. It all looks like over-engineering to me.

In message , GB
writes
We've moved on from joining sheet to tubes. The OP's son is joining two
1" square ally tubes together. It all looks like over-engineering to
me.

What it looks like to me is a make it up as you go along job.

What he has made is more flexible than he hoped, hence the reinforcing
struts. Hopefully the mesh may, if it's the right type, help stabilise
it all.

His problem, and why I probably won't sit there and advise, is that his
work is international and he is away most of most weekdays. At weekends
he is plagued by phone calls and has often to drop everything and video
conference from his office in the house.

He tells me he got 3 of the junctions bolted together, thanks to advice
here and my drills, at the weekend.

Oh and an apology for the birds: It was two herons that ate the fish.
The crane was a 4 foot high ceramic masterpiece that he found in one of
the old sheds and which he put by the pond to scare the herons. They
just knocked it over and broke it.
--
Bill

On 04/06/2018 18:52, Bill wrote:

Oh and an apology for the birds:Â* It was two herons that ate the fish.
The crane was a 4 foot high ceramic masterpiece that he found in one of
the old sheds and which he put by the pond to scare the herons. They
just knocked it over and broke it.

We used to pass a pond next to the road. Next to the pond was a sign
saying 'No fishing', and on the sign a heron used to sit, eyeing the fish.

On 04/06/2018 09:48, T i m wrote:

Far as I
know all the pro tools have plenty of torque, else they wouldn't sell.

Yeahbut that wasn't the question Bill. The question was have *you*
found that *your* battery drill has sufficient torque for everything
*you* have ever used it for?

Not possible to give a sensible answer because I choose the drill for
the job. At the top end is a big ass mains drill and a genny.

The first battery drill I had wouldn't drill a 1/4" hole in softwood!

Bill

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 20:40:07 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 04/06/2018 09:48, T i m wrote:

Far as I
know all the pro tools have plenty of torque, else they wouldn't sell.

Yeahbut that wasn't the question Bill. The question was have *you*
found that *your* battery drill has sufficient torque for everything
*you* have ever used it for?

Not possible to give a sensible answer because I choose the drill for
the job.

So the answer could be 'yes', assuming you might treat your cordless
as being equally capable as your corded for 'most stuff' (like I do)?
;-)

At the top end is a big ass mains drill and a genny.

That wouldn't come under the classification of a cordless drill then I
guess. ;-)

The first battery drill I had wouldn't drill a 1/4" hole in softwood!

I think mine was the DeWalt and that was pretty good (even then).

I still have and do use mains drills and will often use them as my
first choice for some tasks (like big SDS work) [1] or when going lots
of de-rusting where revs might be a good thing, along with duration.

For most general drilling though (inc percussion stuff) I'll pick up
the cordless.

However, they do need a bit of discipline in that you have to ensure
you put them away with all batteries fully charged (or at least one
given they charge pretty quickly) or it's no use when you want to use
it for something quickly (which seems to be the case with many of my
mates and their cr*p cordless drills). ;-(

Cheers, T i m

[1] I know they now do some very credible cordless SDS drills but I
don't have one (well I do, a mate gave me a Makita that needs a new
battery / charger).

On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 18:52:44 +0100, Bill wrote:

His problem, and why I probably won't sit there and advise, is that his
work is international and he is away most of most weekdays. At weekends
he is plagued by phone calls and has often to drop everything and video
conference from his office in the house.

Does he get paid for *all* the work hours he does? If not he needs to
consider his work/life balance and tell work to **** off.

No point in having oodles of cash in the bank if you don't have a
chance to spend it. Even if it's only on a decent drill and set of
bits, but more to the point he's not spending "quality time" with his
toddler and rest of the family.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 18:52:44 +0100, Bill wrote:

His problem, and why I probably won't sit there and advise, is that his
work is international and he is away most of most weekdays. At weekends
he is plagued by phone calls and has often to drop everything and video
conference from his office in the house.

Does he get paid for *all* the work hours he does?

I was always in the fortunate position where I was very well
paid for doing what I would have been happy to do for free.

If not he needs to consider his work/life balance and tell work to ****
off.

Some of us find the work very interesting and manage to
find time to design and build their own house on a bare
block of land and do lots of other stuff as well too.

No point in having oodles of cash in the bank if you don't have a
chance to spend it.

Depends on how much you enjoy the work.

Even if it's only on a decent drill and set of bits,
but more to the point he's not spending "quality
time" with his toddler and rest of the family.

Plenty of us managed to do that too.