On 26/05/2018 21:56, Rod Speed wrote:


"JoeJoe" wrote in message
...
On 26/05/2018 09:19, alan_m wrote:
On 26/05/2018 03:52, FMurtz wrote:
JoeJoe wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44248409

It was never going to end up well.
Good I hate Bunnings, they cancelled my account when they took over
my hardware chain in Australia because I did not always buy more
than a set figure per month, I have not been in there since.


Judging by whats been written and seeing what they have stocked in
the local Homebase* I'm surprised that the operation in Oz hasn't
gone to the wall. There pricing wasn't competitive with the local
B&QÂ* warehouse and they didn't seem to realise that they were only 5
minutes away were a Screwfix and a Toolstation who advertise locally
with regular letter box leaflet drops. I see that they are blaming a
lack of understanding of UK culture and the DIY market but (IMO) in
reality they just overpaid for a failing business that the previous
owners were glad to get shot of and then ran it with incompetent
management.

*My local Homebase had enough Christmas decorations at the start
January to decorate every house in a town of 200,000 people

My impression from my last visit to Oz 5 years ago was that the
Aussies must have too much money in their pockets, with retailers
making it their mission to extract it. I am familiar with the
supermarket situation there that clearly results in much higher
grocery prices,

Thats bull****.

https://theconversation.com/why-aust...adership-71562

(bar chart half way down)



but it seemed to stretch to pretty much everything else as well.

Nope, most obviously with phones, cars, houses etc.

I can still recall driving in Queensland for 2/3 days with nothing but
pineapple fields on either side of the road,

Fantasy. Give us the goggle map reference where that's the case.

Can't remember the exact spot - it stretched for many many miles - but
we had spent 3 weeks driving along the Bruce Highway from Cairns to
Brisbane.

clearly just about ready for harvesting, and stretching as far as the
eye could see.

Thats not the same as all you can see for 2/3 days driving at 100KM/h

What? The bot broke down here...


We went into a Coles during one of our stops and were amazed to see
that they were selling them at £3 each...

Pity about
https://shop.coles.com.au/a/a-nation...eapple-topless

Thats half your claim. And its now winter here, the off season.

We were there in late summer. AUD3.9 for 1? I just bought one today
here for 80p (AUD 1.4)... ...and mine came from Costa Rica, not from
down the road.

"JoeJoe" wrote in message
...
On 26/05/2018 21:56, Rod Speed wrote:


"JoeJoe" wrote in message
...
On 26/05/2018 09:19, alan_m wrote:
On 26/05/2018 03:52, FMurtz wrote:
JoeJoe wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44248409

It was never going to end up well.
Good I hate Bunnings, they cancelled my account when they took over my
hardware chain in Australia because I did not always buy more than a
set figure per month, I have not been in there since.


Judging by whats been written and seeing what they have stocked in the
local Homebase* I'm surprised that the operation in Oz hasn't gone to
the wall. There pricing wasn't competitive with the local B&Q
warehouse and they didn't seem to realise that they were only 5 minutes
away were a Screwfix and a Toolstation who advertise locally with
regular letter box leaflet drops. I see that they are blaming a lack of
understanding of UK culture and the DIY market but (IMO) in reality
they just overpaid for a failing business that the previous owners were
glad to get shot of and then ran it with incompetent management.

*My local Homebase had enough Christmas decorations at the start
January to decorate every house in a town of 200,000 people

My impression from my last visit to Oz 5 years ago was that the Aussies
must have too much money in their pockets, with retailers making it
their mission to extract it. I am familiar with the supermarket
situation there that clearly results in much higher grocery prices,

Thats bull****.

https://theconversation.com/why-aust...adership-71562

(bar chart half way down)

Thats not the retail price the consumer pays.

but it seemed to stretch to pretty much everything else as well.

Nope, most obviously with phones, cars, houses etc.

I can still recall driving in Queensland for 2/3 days with nothing but
pineapple fields on either side of the road,

Fantasy. Give us the goggle map reference where that's the case.

Can't remember the exact spot - it stretched for many many miles

Thats nothing even remotely like 2/3 days by car at 100KMPH

- but we had spent 3 weeks driving along the Bruce Highway from Cairns to
Brisbane.

Nothing even remotely like 2/3 days by car at 100KMPH
of pineapples as far as the eye can see there.

clearly just about ready for harvesting, and stretching as far as the
eye could see.

Thats not the same as all you can see for 2/3 days driving at 100KM/h

What? The bot broke down here...

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

We went into a Coles during one of our stops and were amazed to see that
they were selling them at £3 each...

Pity about
https://shop.coles.com.au/a/a-nation...eapple-topless

Thats half your claim. And its now winter here, the off season.

We were there in late summer.

So the store price would be much lower.

AUD3.9 for 1?

In winter.

On 27/05/2018 11:36, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

B&Q closed a number of local branches over the years. Homebase didn't -
but also seemed to have less customers. The two ain't compatible.


Homebase appealed to those who wanted over-priced fluffy cushions or
fitted kitchens but didn't sell anything at a sensible price for anyone
doing some serious DIY, hence falling trade. I don't think the new
owners were aware of how the general public perceived this retail outlet
and did absolutely nothing to inform the UK population that the
ownership had changed and the stores may be different. It's all good if
you take over a ongoing successful business but with a failing business
you have re-attract the people who have previously visited the old
stores and have decided that they are not worth a return visit. This did
not happen, at least not in my area of the country where Homebase wasn't
re-branded. I only went to Homebase many months after reading on here
that the store had changed hands and I got the impression that the staff
out-numbered customers by 3:1.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
B&Q closed a number of local branches over the years. Homebase didn't -
but also seemed to have less customers. The two ain't compatible.


Homebase appealed to those who wanted over-priced fluffy cushions or
fitted kitchens but didn't sell anything at a sensible price for anyone
doing some serious DIY, hence falling trade. I don't think the new
owners were aware of how the general public perceived this retail outlet
and did absolutely nothing to inform the UK population that the
ownership had changed and the stores may be different. It's all good if
you take over a ongoing successful business but with a failing business
you have re-attract the people who have previously visited the old
stores and have decided that they are not worth a return visit. This did
not happen, at least not in my area of the country where Homebase wasn't
re-branded. I only went to Homebase many months after reading on here
that the store had changed hands and I got the impression that the staff
out-numbered customers by 3:1.

After the takeover I looked to see what had changed. If it had, not
obvious. And to turn round a store which hasn't been doing well needs
massive changes. They either need to offer things you can't get elsewhere
or at as good or better prices.

--
*It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
alan_m wrote

B&Q closed a number of local branches over the years. Homebase didn't -
but also seemed to have less customers. The two ain't compatible.

Homebase appealed to those who wanted over-priced fluffy cushions
or fitted kitchens but didn't sell anything at a sensible price for
anyone
doing some serious DIY, hence falling trade. I don't think the new
owners were aware of how the general public perceived this retail outlet
and did absolutely nothing to inform the UK population that the
ownership had changed and the stores may be different. It's all good if
you take over a ongoing successful business but with a failing business
you have re-attract the people who have previously visited the old
stores and have decided that they are not worth a return visit. This did
not happen, at least not in my area of the country where Homebase wasn't
re-branded. I only went to Homebase many months after reading on here
that the store had changed hands and I got the impression that the staff
out-numbered customers by 3:1.

After the takeover I looked to see what had changed. If it had, not
obvious. And to turn round a store which hasn't been doing well
needs massive changes. They either need to offer things you can't
get elsewhere or at as good or better prices.

And that isnt going to be possible when you have much
higher costs due to the revamp than your competitors.

The reality is that there are too many physical stores for
the amount of DIY work being done when the buyer
can't wait for the cheaper stuff to be delivered from an
online operation, particularly now that the likes of amazon
are able to deliver so quickly. Yes, there will always be
some stuff that its quicker to get by going to a local
physical store, but not enough to sustain all those
current physical stores to be profitable.

On Fri, 25 May 2018 08:48:17 +0100, JoeJoe wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44248409

It was never going to end up well.

Lived in Oz for a few years, a company rented newbuild property with maintenance
contract for everything, so no need to even consider any DIY, and from what I
understood lots of what we do in the UK home either legally or not such as
structural work, plumbing and electrics are well off limits with the protected
trades they have over there.

Can't understand how an outsider like Bunnings knew anything about the UK
market, the current incumbents like B&Q, Wickes and Homebase struggle as to
what they are and what market they are aiming for.


--

JoeJoe wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44248409
It was never going to end up well.

I went in yesterday (a bit closer than B&Q) to see what storage crates
they had, I needn't have bothered ... loads of smashed stock, items with
no prices on them or on the shelves, no staff around to ask questions
.... bit of a shambles really.

The Other Mike wrote
JoeJoe wrote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44248409

It was never going to end up well.

Lived in Oz for a few years, a company rented newbuild property with
maintenance contract for everything, so no need to even consider any
DIY, and from what I understood lots of what we do in the UK home
either legally or not such as structural work, plumbing and electrics
are well off limits with the protected trades they have over there.

Only with electrical and plumbing,, not structural.

And Bunnings is happy to flog you what you need for any
electrical and plumbing work that isnt legal for DIY anyway.

Can't understand how an outsider like Bunnings
knew anything about the UKmarket,

They clearly didn't.

the current incumbents like B&Q, Wickes and Homebase struggle
as to what they are and what market they are aiming for.

And yet outsiders like Aldi and Costco do fine here.

And Amazon and Ebay have done fine there too.

In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:
Can't understand how an outsider like Bunnings knew anything about the
UK market, the current incumbents like B&Q, Wickes and Homebase
struggle as to what they are and what market they are aiming for.

Can only speak for round here, but generally no matter when I visit, Wicks
looks busy enough to be making a profit. Unlike B&Q (which is much larger)
and Homebase. My local Wicks also has Toolstation inside, so must have
reduced the proportion of the fixed costs attributed to Wicks alone
dramatically.

--
*If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/05/2018 18:33, Rod Speed wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
alan_m wrote

B&Q closed a number of local branches over the years. Homebase didn't -
but also seemed to have less customers. The two ain't compatible.

Homebase appealed to those who wanted over-priced fluffy cushions
or fitted kitchens but didn't sell anything at a sensible price for
anyone
doing some serious DIY, hence falling trade.* I don't think the new
owners were aware of how the general public perceived this retail outlet
and did absolutely nothing to inform the UK population that the
ownership had changed and the stores may be different. It's all good if
you take over a ongoing successful business but with a failing business
you have re-attract the people who have previously visited the old
stores and have decided that they are not worth a return visit. This did
not happen, at least not in my area of the country where Homebase wasn't
re-branded. I only went to Homebase many months after reading on here
that the store had changed hands and I got the impression that the staff
out-numbered customers by 3:1.

After the takeover I looked to see what had changed. If it had, not
obvious. And to turn round a store which hasn't been doing well
needs massive changes. They either need to offer things you can't
get elsewhere or at as good or better prices.

And that isnt going to be possible when you have much
higher costs due to the revamp than your competitors.

The reality is that there are too many physical stores for
the amount of DIY work being done when the buyer
can't wait for the cheaper stuff to be delivered from an
online operation, particularly now that the likes of amazon
are able to deliver so quickly. Yes, there will always be
some stuff that its quicker to get by going to a local
physical store, but not enough to sustain all those
current physical stores to be profitable.

Also, the market for a lot of what these stores offer is starting to
tail off. Maybe:

Fewer owners - over half of Londoners now rent, for example.

Peak stuff - furnishings and the like. Also DIY tools and materials? Not
sure, but there has to be a limit to the number of cordless drills a
nation can withstand?

And the whole thing about what householders are willing to engage in,
DIY-wise.

--
Cheers, Rob

"RJH" wrote in message
news
On 28/05/2018 18:33, Rod Speed wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
alan_m wrote

B&Q closed a number of local branches over the years. Homebase
didn't -
but also seemed to have less customers. The two ain't compatible.

Homebase appealed to those who wanted over-priced fluffy cushions
or fitted kitchens but didn't sell anything at a sensible price for
anyone
doing some serious DIY, hence falling trade. I don't think the new
owners were aware of how the general public perceived this retail
outlet
and did absolutely nothing to inform the UK population that the
ownership had changed and the stores may be different. It's all good if
you take over a ongoing successful business but with a failing business
you have re-attract the people who have previously visited the old
stores and have decided that they are not worth a return visit. This
did
not happen, at least not in my area of the country where Homebase
wasn't
re-branded. I only went to Homebase many months after reading on here
that the store had changed hands and I got the impression that the
staff
out-numbered customers by 3:1.

After the takeover I looked to see what had changed. If it had, not
obvious. And to turn round a store which hasn't been doing well
needs massive changes. They either need to offer things you can't
get elsewhere or at as good or better prices.

And that isnt going to be possible when you have much
higher costs due to the revamp than your competitors.

The reality is that there are too many physical stores for
the amount of DIY work being done when the buyer
can't wait for the cheaper stuff to be delivered from an
online operation, particularly now that the likes of amazon
are able to deliver so quickly. Yes, there will always be
some stuff that its quicker to get by going to a local
physical store, but not enough to sustain all those
current physical stores to be profitable.

Also, the market for a lot of what these stores offer is starting to tail
off. Maybe:

Fewer owners - over half of Londoners now rent, for example.

Sure, that has to be a factor.

Ours hadn't changed much, only by a couple of percent.

Peak stuff - furnishings and the like. Also DIY tools and materials? Not
sure, but there has to be a limit to the number of cordless drills a
nation can withstand?

Dunno, surely those die at a higher rate than the previous corded stuff.

And the whole thing about what householders are willing to engage in,
DIY-wise.

It would be interesting to see some decent stats on that.

In some ways with fewer able to afford to be able to buy
the place they live in, in some ways you might expect
more buying the dregs of the market and fixing it up.

On 29/05/2018 10:46, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:
Can't understand how an outsider like Bunnings knew anything about the
UK market, the current incumbents like B&Q, Wickes and Homebase
struggle as to what they are and what market they are aiming for.

Can only speak for round here, but generally no matter when I visit, Wicks
looks busy enough to be making a profit. Unlike B&Q (which is much larger)
and Homebase. My local Wicks also has Toolstation inside, so must have
reduced the proportion of the fixed costs attributed to Wicks alone
dramatically.


Judging by the number of sign written "white vans" that use Wickes car
parks I get the impression that it is used by many small jobbing
builders whereas B&Q less so. I doubt that anyone in building business
uses Homebase.

My local B&Q has a trade only checkout situated the other end of the
warehouse to that for the general public. I have no idea what the price
differential may be.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Jethro_uk wrote:

On Fri, 25 May 2018 08:48:17 +0100, JoeJoe wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44248409

It was never going to end up well.


I have just returned from our local Homebase store. I wanted a litre of
brilliant white emulsion. Nobody stocks such a small amount so I took a 2.5
litre can. My overall impression though is that it looks dowdier with each
visit.

You could usually rely on the carewash crew stationed in a corner of their
car park. They and their hut were gone and a returned trolley catcher
occupied its space. I guess they are for the chop too.

After thet go it is a choice of B&Q about 6 miles away or B&Q 8 miles away.
Bad news all round.


--
Mageia 5.1 for x86_64, Kernel:4.4.114-desktop-1.mga5
KDE version 4.14.5 on an AMD Phenom II X4 Black edition.

On Tuesday, 29 May 2018 11:04:56 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:

In some ways with fewer able to afford to be able to buy
the place they live in, in some ways you might expect
more buying the dregs of the market and fixing it up.

youngsters now aren't that solution oriented. Quite the opposite.

Anyway the dregs are unaffordable too.


NT

wrote
Rod Speed wrote

In some ways with fewer able to afford to be able to buy
the place they live in, in some ways you might expect
more buying the dregs of the market and fixing it up.

youngsters now aren't that solution oriented. Quite the opposite.

Bull**** they arent. There are still plenty buying the
cheapest dump that they can afford and fixing it.

Anyway the dregs are unaffordable too.

Someone is obviously buying those, ****wit.

On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 01:18:43 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote

In some ways with fewer able to afford to be able to buy
the place they live in, in some ways you might expect
more buying the dregs of the market and fixing it up.

youngsters now aren't that solution oriented. Quite the opposite.

Bull**** they arent. There are still plenty buying the
cheapest dump that they can afford and fixing it.

not here

Anyway the dregs are unaffordable too.

Someone is obviously buying those, ****wit.

yes, builders. Anyone that's tight on funds has no hope of getting a mortgage unless all sorts of fussy requirements are met. A doerupper is out of the question.

You sure love wasting everyone's time. It was nice when you weren't here for a bit.

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote

In some ways with fewer able to afford to be able to
buy the place they live in, in some ways you might expect
more buying the dregs of the market and fixing it up.

youngsters now aren't that solution oriented. Quite the opposite.

Bull**** they arent. There are still plenty buying the
cheapest dump that they can afford and fixing it.

not here

Yep, visible on that reality TV series doing just that, there.

Anyway the dregs are unaffordable too.

Someone is obviously buying those, ****wit.

yes, builders.

Nope, plenty of non builders doing it on that reality TV series.

Anyone that's tight on funds has no hope of getting a mortgage unless
all sorts of fussy requirements are met. A doerupper is out of the
question.

How odd that we can see them doing it on that reality TV series.

Rod Speed wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote

In some ways with fewer able to afford to be able to
buy the place they live in, in some ways you might expect
more buying the dregs of the market and fixing it up.

youngsters now aren't that solution oriented. Quite the opposite.

Bull**** they arent. There are still plenty buying the
cheapest dump that they can afford and fixing it.

not here

Yep, visible on that reality TV series doing just that, there.

Anyway the dregs are unaffordable too.

Someone is obviously buying those, ****wit.

yes, builders.

Nope, plenty of non builders doing it on that reality TV series.

Anyone that's tight on funds has no hope of getting a mortgage unless
all sorts of fussy requirements are met. A doerupper is out of the
question.

How odd that we can see them doing it on that reality TV series.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006v5kb

On Sat, 26 May 2018 11:22:47 +0100, "tim..." wrote:



The difference in the UK over Oz is probably that land costs in Oz for out
of town warehouses is going to be pretty much zero

whereas in the UK, it makes a huge addition to your costs base.

It's easy to compete with online if your shop space is cheap, next to
impossible if it isn't

Except commercial property or land zoned as such and located in metropolitan
areas in Australia is not particularly 'cheap'

Locate it actually in the arse end of nowhere rather than near the arse end of
nowhere and it might be really cheap
--

"The Other Mike" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 May 2018 11:22:47 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



The difference in the UK over Oz is probably that land costs in Oz for out
of town warehouses is going to be pretty much zero

whereas in the UK, it makes a huge addition to your costs base.

It's easy to compete with online if your shop space is cheap, next to
impossible if it isn't

Except commercial property or land zoned as such and located in
metropolitan
areas in Australia is not particularly 'cheap'

Locate it actually in the arse end of nowhere rather than near the arse
end of
nowhere and it might be really cheap

Yes, but the cost of the trucks getting to it wouldn't be. --

On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 03:32:24 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote

In some ways with fewer able to afford to be able to
buy the place they live in, in some ways you might expect
more buying the dregs of the market and fixing it up.

youngsters now aren't that solution oriented. Quite the opposite.

Bull**** they arent. There are still plenty buying the
cheapest dump that they can afford and fixing it.

not here

Yep, visible on that reality TV series doing just that, there.

Anyway the dregs are unaffordable too.

Someone is obviously buying those, ****wit.

yes, builders.

Nope, plenty of non builders doing it on that reality TV series.

Anyone that's tight on funds has no hope of getting a mortgage unless
all sorts of fussy requirements are met. A doerupper is out of the
question.

How odd that we can see them doing it on that reality TV series.

go waste someone else's time with your idiocy. Otherwise it's plonk time.

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 03:32:24 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote

In some ways with fewer able to afford to be able to
buy the place they live in, in some ways you might expect
more buying the dregs of the market and fixing it up.

youngsters now aren't that solution oriented. Quite the opposite.

Bull**** they arent. There are still plenty buying the
cheapest dump that they can afford and fixing it.

not here

Yep, visible on that reality TV series doing just that, there.

Anyway the dregs are unaffordable too.

Someone is obviously buying those, ****wit.

yes, builders.

Nope, plenty of non builders doing it on that reality TV series.

Anyone that's tight on funds has no hope of getting a mortgage unless
all sorts of fussy requirements are met. A doerupper is out of the
question.

How odd that we can see them doing it on that reality TV series.

go waste someone else's time with your idiocy. Otherwise it's plonk time.

No one gives a flying red **** what terminal ****wits such as
yourself choose to read when your terminal stupiditys and lies
have been exposed for the world to point and laugh at, ****wit child.

On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:08:18 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 03:32:24 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote

In some ways with fewer able to afford to be able to
buy the place they live in, in some ways you might expect
more buying the dregs of the market and fixing it up.

youngsters now aren't that solution oriented. Quite the opposite.

Bull**** they arent. There are still plenty buying the
cheapest dump that they can afford and fixing it.

not here

Yep, visible on that reality TV series doing just that, there.

Anyway the dregs are unaffordable too.

Someone is obviously buying those, ****wit.

yes, builders.

Nope, plenty of non builders doing it on that reality TV series.

Anyone that's tight on funds has no hope of getting a mortgage unless
all sorts of fussy requirements are met. A doerupper is out of the
question.

How odd that we can see them doing it on that reality TV series.

go waste someone else's time with your idiocy. Otherwise it's plonk time.

No one gives a flying red **** what terminal ****wits such as
yourself choose to read when your terminal stupiditys and lies
have been exposed for the world to point and laugh at, ****wit child.

plonker plonked

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 19:08:18 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 30 May 2018 03:32:24 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote

In some ways with fewer able to afford to be able to
buy the place they live in, in some ways you might expect
more buying the dregs of the market and fixing it up.

youngsters now aren't that solution oriented. Quite the opposite.

Bull**** they arent. There are still plenty buying the
cheapest dump that they can afford and fixing it.

not here

Yep, visible on that reality TV series doing just that, there.

Anyway the dregs are unaffordable too.

Someone is obviously buying those, ****wit.

yes, builders.

Nope, plenty of non builders doing it on that reality TV series.

Anyone that's tight on funds has no hope of getting a mortgage
unless
all sorts of fussy requirements are met. A doerupper is out of the
question.

How odd that we can see them doing it on that reality TV series.

go waste someone else's time with your idiocy. Otherwise it's plonk
time.

No one gives a flying red **** what terminal ****wits such as yourself
choose to read when your terminal stupiditys and lies have been
exposed for the world to point and laugh at, ****wit child.

plonker plonked

Fat lot of good that will do you, gutless.